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Old
08-26-2010, 08:54 PM
  #76
Oates2Neely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Evander Kane or Jordan Staal would be a starting point for Subban and neither are included in your proposal, so it's a pass. Subban is a pretty huge fan favourite and I wouldn't want to see the downtown Montreal aftermath after that trade went down.

If Cammalleri wants to retire as a Canadien, I can see that happening. Equally as much from an ethic/spokesman viewpoint as from a skill viewpoint.
I realize J.Staal & E.Kane ger seriously over-rated on these boards but you'd be lucky to get either for Subban. Im a big Subban fan, but lets be realistic.

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Old
08-26-2010, 09:43 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I realize J.Staal & E.Kane ger seriously over-rated on these boards but you'd be lucky to get either for Subban. Im a big Subban fan, but lets be realistic.
I think in a year or two Subban will be worth more than either of them, not trying to be a homer but realistically that is where I see his value.

Maybe not a generational guy or a franchise player but a solid franchise #2 guy.

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Old
08-26-2010, 10:03 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I think in a year or two Subban will be worth more than either of them, not trying to be a homer but realistically that is where I see his value.

Maybe not a generational guy or a franchise player but a solid franchise #2 guy.
I am not sure where Subban will end up but a # 2 guy seems fare he has great offensive ability but he sure has alot of defensive liabilities, at the moment, if he can correct these he will have a nice NHL career but if not ?

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Old
08-26-2010, 10:27 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by bme44 View Post
I am not sure where Subban will end up but a # 2 guy seems fare he has great offensive ability but he sure has alot of defensive liabilities, at the moment, if he can correct these he will have a nice NHL career but if not ?
He has worked on and improved his defensive aspects of the game, worked on his strength and his skating. I think what he has to work on is when it is okay to join the rush and when he should stay back. Everything happens faster at the NHL level.

It's mostly just getting ice time at the NHL level, practicing and learning.

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Old
08-26-2010, 11:55 PM
  #80
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Can we find a deal for Joe Colborne? What's the price for him?

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Old
08-27-2010, 12:14 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by bme44 View Post
he sure has alot of defensive liabilities, at the moment
his +2 in 14 pressure packed NHL playoff games,
and +46 in his only season in the AHL says differently

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Old
08-27-2010, 07:40 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
his +2 in 14 pressure packed NHL playoff games,
and +46 in his only season in the AHL says differently
He won the Presidents trophy in the AHL and was 2nd in the league in +/- (and a leader among d-men). In fact on his own team no one was remotely close to him in +/-. The closest defenceman on his own team had a +/- of +17 which suggesst that he was indeed very very good defensively.

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Old
08-27-2010, 08:20 AM
  #83
Oates2Neely
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Originally Posted by bleuetbio View Post
Can we find a deal for Joe Colborne? What's the price for him?
Subban +

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Old
08-27-2010, 08:31 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Subban +
Colborne has less value than Subban right now, that's for sure.

I might do Eller vs Colborne straight up, but it would be pretty lateral. Eller is much more NHL-ready.

This is just one source among others, but here is HF's take on both players' equivalence:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/hockey_...ects/?start=20

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Old
08-27-2010, 08:48 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Colborne has less value than Subban right now, that's for sure.

I might do Eller vs Colborne straight up, but it would be pretty lateral. Eller is much more NHL-ready.
This is just one source among others, but here is HF's take on both players' equivalence:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/hockey_...ects/?start=20
It doesn't matter who's "more NHL ready".. What matters is who projects to be the more complete player. Colborne is projected as a #1 center/ winger, & he's 6'5".. very rare. I wouldn't trade him for Subban straight up, Montreal would have to add. Subban looks very good offensively but his defensive game needs some serious maturing. Imo both these kids will be teammates on the Eastern All-Stars some day, but 6'5" forwards w/ soft hands who project to be top-3 forwards are rare.

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08-27-2010, 09:24 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
It doesn't matter who's "more NHL ready".. What matters is who projects to be the more complete player. Colborne is projected as a #1 center/ winger, & he's 6'5".. very rare. I wouldn't trade him for Subban straight up, Montreal would have to add. Subban looks very good offensively but his defensive game needs some serious maturing. Imo both these kids will be teammates on the Eastern All-Stars some day, but 6'5" forwards w/ soft hands who project to be top-3 forwards are rare.
Still, we have seen Subban shine at the NHL level already and not Colborne. Even though we can agree Subban's "defensive game needs some serious maturing", he already looks like a point-producer at the NHL level.

Colborne, at this point, is only speculations and projections. He might not make the big League for another 2 years. And I think we can agree that youngsters wanting to impose their physical game normally take more time to pan out (see Bertuzzi, for example).

We all value and protect our own prospects, but at this point, there's nothing that convinces me Colborne will become a better NHL player than Eller, and especially Subban.

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08-27-2010, 10:01 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
It doesn't matter who's "more NHL ready".. What matters is who projects to be the more complete player. Colborne is projected as a #1 center/ winger, & he's 6'5".. very rare. I wouldn't trade him for Subban straight up, Montreal would have to add. Subban looks very good offensively but his defensive game needs some serious maturing. Imo both these kids will be teammates on the Eastern All-Stars some day, but 6'5" forwards w/ soft hands who project to be top-3 forwards are rare.
If I was trading Subban I would rather have Staal or Evander Kane over Colborne but he definitely is a player(if he develops as projected) that Montreal could use. I wouldn't be that thrilled if we traded Subban for him but I wouldn't be that upset either,however, I would think we could of done better, that's all.

The reason I say that is because with our system we seem to prefer old relics for d-men and as long as Martin is coach that's the way it will probably stay.

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Old
08-27-2010, 10:06 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tray4Adams View Post
Lucic's contract is untouchable.

4+ mil for a grinder that will pot 15 goals? Yikes

So......17 as a 20yr old means career upside of 15? OK

I think I like the Leaf board better because .....36 - 30 - X.....
X = >50.

Much more encouraging.

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Old
08-27-2010, 10:11 AM
  #89
cneely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Still, we have seen Subban shine at the NHL level already and not Colborne. Even though we can agree Subban's "defensive game needs some serious maturing", he already looks like a point-producer at the NHL level.

Colborne, at this point, is only speculations and projections. He might not make the big League for another 2 years. And I think we can agree that youngsters wanting to impose their physical game normally take more time to pan out (see Bertuzzi, for example).

We all value and protect our own prospects, but at this point, there's nothing that convinces me Colborne will become a better NHL player than Eller, and especially Subban.
Colborne doesn't really impose anything physically. He will go to the net, and other danger areas, but isn't a bruiser. More of a playmaker who uses his size and reach to make plays, like a Joe Thornton lite.

Anyway, your point is taken. Big players take a little longer to grow into their bodies it seems.

I think he'll be better than Eller (hard to compare different positions), but not Subban.

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Old
08-27-2010, 10:14 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
I love the fact none of the Habs players on these pics are actually still on the team. I know he was injured for a long stretch last year, but I barely noticed Lucic whenever he played the Habs.

Quasimodo definitely castrated Komisarek's physical mojo, and I'm not sure he'll ever get it back.

Indeed. Injuries heal - you can't fix fear. Lindros did it to Thornton and he was never the same.

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Old
08-27-2010, 10:16 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamblor506 View Post
Montreal

Kostitsyn
Weber
Maxwell/Desharnais

for

Boston

Lucic
McQuaid

I know that the Habs and Bruins very rarely make trades. I think this would be good for Boston as they would improve thier offense a bit, as it was a bit weak last year and I know Savard was out. Boston is a defensive team. Kostitsyn could bring good offense to Boston especially with a Krecji or a Seguin. He has better offensive upside than Lucic. Boston free's up close to 1mill in cap, as Weber or Desharnais could be in the A for another year. The big thing for Boston is the cap and adding more offense up front.

Montreal adds the body they were looking for up front on the top 6. McQuaid would take Weber's position in the A.

Is value fair? Add or remove to make fair. Would Boston fans be hesitant to deal Lucic? I think it gives both teams what they want.

Montreal - powerforward for the top 6 with size.

Boston - adds offense to the top 6 and they get some cap relief. Weber could turn out to be the offensive dman they are looking to add to their blue line. I know alot people will refuse this type of deal as Boston and Montreal rarely deal and who is involved.

I see a few people have been saying that they feel that Lucic has under performed since his injury and that they might consider moving his salary if a fair deal came around.

YUCK!!!! Lucic is severely overpaid and MacQuaid is overrated. I like the fact that both players have a lot of size and grit, but that is the main reason Boston would never trade them in the first place.

Lucic had 1 good season, the season the whole Bruins team played over their heads and finished 1st in the East. I don't see Lucic getting more than 30 points a season for the rest of his career.

He's all hype. He came into the league and beat a few non-fighters and threw a couple of body checks and all of a sudden he's this awesome player. Keep in mind he had the benefit of playing with Kessel and Savard...the Bruins 2 best players that year.

The Habs already threw money away on signing a goon with Laraque, they don't need to do it again with Lucic.

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Old
08-27-2010, 10:30 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalakRulz View Post
YUCK!!!! Lucic is severely overpaid and MacQuaid is overrated. I like the fact that both players have a lot of size and grit, but that is the main reason Boston would never trade them in the first place.

Lucic had 1 good season, the season the whole Bruins team played over their heads and finished 1st in the East. I don't see Lucic getting more than 30 points a season for the rest of his career.

He's all hype. He came into the league and beat a few non-fighters and threw a couple of body checks and all of a sudden he's this awesome player. Keep in mind he had the benefit of playing with Kessel and Savard...the Bruins 2 best players that year.

The Habs already threw money away on signing a goon with Laraque, they don't need to do it again with Lucic.

Never seen anyone rate McQuaid. Nice homer rant about the 30 pt goon Mrs. Komisarek

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Old
08-27-2010, 10:56 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by HalakRulz View Post
YUCK!!!! Lucic is severely overpaid and MacQuaid is overrated. I like the fact that both players have a lot of size and grit, but that is the main reason Boston would never trade them in the first place.

Lucic had 1 good season, the season the whole Bruins team played over their heads and finished 1st in the East. I don't see Lucic getting more than 30 points a season for the rest of his career.

He's all hype. He came into the league and beat a few non-fighters and threw a couple of body checks and all of a sudden he's this awesome player. Keep in mind he had the benefit of playing with Kessel and Savard...the Bruins 2 best players that year.

The Habs already threw money away on signing a goon with Laraque, they don't need to do it again with Lucic.
1. McQuaid is overrated?!? When did that happen. I bet you can't name one thing about the guy.

2. When you are the softest team in the NHL. Getting a power forward should always be welcomed even if they are overpaid.

3. 30 points the rest of his career. Sure .

4. Obvious trolling if you compare Lucic to Laraque.

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Old
08-27-2010, 11:14 AM
  #94
cneely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalakRulz View Post
YUCK!!!! Lucic is severely overpaid and MacQuaid is overrated. I like the fact that both players have a lot of size and grit, but that is the main reason Boston would never trade them in the first place.

Lucic had 1 good season, the season the whole Bruins team played over their heads and finished 1st in the East. I don't see Lucic getting more than 30 points a season for the rest of his career.

He's all hype. He came into the league and beat a few non-fighters and threw a couple of body checks and all of a sudden he's this awesome player. Keep in mind he had the benefit of playing with Kessel and Savard...the Bruins 2 best players that year.

The Habs already threw money away on signing a goon with Laraque, they don't need to do it again with Lucic.
LOL

Just want to quote this for posterity.
Yes, this is why Habs fans can be ridiculed around here.

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Old
08-27-2010, 11:43 AM
  #95
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Don't bother with that guy. He's basically at the same level as that other guy who compared Subban to a pylon.

I would have Lucic on my team every single day of the week. Not sure he would get a permanent top-6 role, but he'd be a nice complement to Gomez/Gionta whenever Habs play tougher opponents. He'd at least be able to skate with them.

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Old
08-27-2010, 11:58 AM
  #96
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Colborne doesn't really impose anything physically. He will go to the net, and other danger areas, but isn't a bruiser. More of a playmaker who uses his size and reach to make plays, like a Joe Thornton lite.

Anyway, your point is taken. Big players take a little longer to grow into their bodies it seems.

I think he'll be better than Eller (hard to compare different positions), but not Subban.
Are you referring to Eller or Subban? Because both Eller & Colborne are playmaking centers with a large frame and not shy to use it (with a good 3" advantage to Colborne, of course).

Anyway, I also feel Colborne will develop into a better player, probably more offense-oriented, but he's definitely not as NHL-ready as Eller who should be able to contribute as soon as this year (maybe wishful thinking). I also feel Eller has a better two-way upside than Colborne, and may be more likely to pan out at the NHL level, due to his near-elite defensive awareness.

But again, I still prefer Colborne's upside; but who wouldn't with that 6'5 frame? The fact you guys have no need to rush him up should be very beneficial to his development.

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Old
08-27-2010, 12:04 PM
  #97
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I'd like to see Colborne play 40/50 games in Providence this season then call him up for a few games and see how he responds.

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Old
08-27-2010, 12:19 PM
  #98
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I'm thinking this thread has provided both a reasonable and unreasonable cross-section of opinion on the original proposal already. Time to pull the plug before it goes any further off the rails, I say...
/thread

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