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Old
08-28-2010, 04:20 PM
  #26
Larry44
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Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
Homer was too focused on Shelly on July 1 to pay attention to other goalie options. Mason or Ellis and Leighton is a combo I could have lived with for sure.
Again, total fiction. Signing O'Donnell and Shelley on July 1 was not all they were doing.

The Flyers were talking to Ellis, who decided he'd rather compete for a starter's jot with his buddy Smith in Tampa rather than Leighton on the Flyers for the same money.

They were certainly after Turco before and after July 1. Mason, who knows? He blew it by asking Stl Louis for a big raise and they said, FU, we'll get Halak instead. He ended up taking a huge pay cut to be Pavelec's backup in Atlanta. Great move cue ball....

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08-28-2010, 04:25 PM
  #27
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I think it's more than possible to get to the Finals again, but at that point, we'll need to compete in a shootout unless our defense really has improved that much.

My biggest hope is that we can spread out the minutes with Meszaros - O'Donnell. If we can get all our pairings playing a solid 20 minutes a night, we might be able to rip apart the postseason with a "fresh" defense (at least fresher than other teams).
That is a recipe for failure. To play that style you need a much better goalie than what the flyers have. What happens when the offense slumps, an injury or 2 (as there is no one who can replace any top 6 guy or maybe even top 9 in the minors). What happens in the playoffs when more times than not the games are tighter and scoring is hard to come by?

What make syou think the coach will even want to play the 3rd pairing that much? In a close game you can bet your ass he will still ride Pronger and Kimmo. I dont really see their minutes decreasing by as much some people think they will during the regular season. what will constitute a huge decrease? 2 minutes+

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08-28-2010, 04:30 PM
  #28
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That is a recipe for failure. To play that style you need a much better goalie than what the flyers have.
You don't need a much better goalie, but you need a better goalie.

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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
What happens when the offense slumps, an injury or 2 (as there is no one who can replace any top 6 guy or maybe even top 9 in the minors).
It happens. Not much any team can do about injuries.

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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
What happens in the playoffs when more times than not the games are tighter and scoring is hard to come by?
Then our defense is doing it's job. I doubt scoring will be an issue for us when our offense is healthy.

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What make syou think the coach will even want to play the 3rd pairing that much?
Because Laviolette isn't an idiot?

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In a close game you can bet your ass he will still ride Pronger and Kimmo.
Probably, but that doesn't mean he's going to be playing Meszaros - O'Donnell 3 minutes a night or whatever he was playing Parent/Krajicek/Bartulis.

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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
I dont really see their minutes decreasing by as much some people think they will during the regular season. what will constitute a huge decrease? 2 minutes+
It'll be bigger than that during the regular season. Point of emphasis this offseason was to clearly not have Pronger and Timonen playing 30 minutes a night each.

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08-28-2010, 04:30 PM
  #29
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He shouldn't be our starter, I didn't want him to be our starter, and I don't want him to be our starter. But, I'm willing to give him a chance to prove himself against capable offenses in the hope that he has improved his rebound control and 5-hole in the offseason. If he has progressed like he did last year under Reese, then hopefully he won't be completely terrible. The new and improved defense can hopefully cover for him better.

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08-28-2010, 04:41 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
He shouldn't be our starter, I didn't want him to be our starter, and I don't want him to be our starter. But, I'm willing to give him a chance to prove himself against capable offenses in the hope that he has improved his rebound control and 5-hole in the offseason. If he has progressed like he did last year under Reese, then hopefully he won't be completely terrible. The new and improved defense can hopefully cover for him better.
I don't care about his rebound control to an extent. Jeff Reese has him sitting deeper in the net so that his positioning doesn't get all out of whack. I'll take the dangerous rebounds over his screwy positioning any day as long as our defense is still up to the task of bailing him out.

That said, what I really want him to work on his control over his own body. That has part to do with positioning, but he does need to be more aware of the 5-hole and more aware of angling his body along the posts in general.

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08-28-2010, 04:44 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You don't need a much better goalie, but you need a better goalie.



It happens. Not much any team can do about injuries.



Then our defense is doing it's job. I doubt scoring will be an issue for us when our offense is healthy.



Because Laviolette isn't an idiot?



Probably, but that doesn't mean he's going to be playing Meszaros - O'Donnell 3 minutes a night or whatever he was playing Parent/Krajicek/Bartulis.



It'll be bigger than that during the regular season. Point of emphasis this offseason was to clearly not have Pronger and Timonen playing 30 minutes a night each.
Since i cant do the quote part as pretty as you.
1. What i was assuming you were saying is a run and gun style of play that will lead to high scoring games. Not sure if that is what yo emant. either why you need much better goalie not just a better goalie.

2. Correct. That is why you dont play that style, at least for this team. Having a subpar goalie will not allwo this team to really play how they are capable of playing imo.

3. doesnt mean the d isnt doing the job. If you play that style the d could be playing just fine yet giving up 5 goals a game. Without seeign the end result that isnt a correct statement.

4. It has nothign to do with the coach being an idiot. He will play the best players to try to win the game. You think in the 3rd period he will be concerned about spreading the minutes out in games they need to win? He will play who is comfortable with and gives you the best chance to win. What also makes you think o donnel canplay 20 minutes a night? I dont think he will be effective playing that many minutes over the long haul.

5. correct that is why i dont think their minutes will decreaase by that much.

6. I would be shocked if both their minutes decrease by more than < minutes per game. I hope the other guys are competent enough to allow that to happen. As i said i think the coach will still lean on the top dawgs when it comes down to it. Hopefully they have a lot of blowout games.

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08-28-2010, 05:18 PM
  #32
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wait, see,......then scream or cheer!

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08-28-2010, 06:58 PM
  #33
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Here's my biggest beef with the whole Leighton deal. I honestly think the Flyers will be fine with him in net. But what I am not looking forward to is every single loss being blamed on Leighton on this board next season and no credit given to him at all when he wins. Not saying that he is blameless in all losses or the sole reason for every win, but last season it was the same thing with John Stevens. We lose 3-1: "OMG John Stevens is so stupid it's all his fault!" We win 3-1: "I can't believe we won in spite of having John Stevens as the coach!" Just substitute Paul Holmgren and Michael Leighton for those John Stevens and that is what this year is going to be like. I know that Stevens wound up getting fired and blah blah blah so I am sure people are going to respond by saying, "Well see what happened when he was fired!" But not every loss was his fault just like not every loss next season will be Leighton's. And not every win was all thanks to Stevens just like not every win will be solely because of Leighton. That is the only thing I am not looking forward to with this season.

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08-28-2010, 07:13 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Here's my biggest beef with the whole Leighton deal. I honestly think the Flyers will be fine with him in net. But what I am not looking forward to is every single loss being blamed on Leighton on this board next season and no credit given to him at all when he wins. Not saying that he is blameless in all losses or the sole reason for every win, but last season it was the same thing with John Stevens. We lose 3-1: "OMG John Stevens is so stupid it's all his fault!" We win 3-1: "I can't believe we won in spite of having John Stevens as the coach!" Just substitute Paul Holmgren and Michael Leighton for those John Stevens and that is what this year is going to be like. I know that Stevens wound up getting fired and blah blah blah so I am sure people are going to respond by saying, "Well see what happened when he was fired!" But not every loss was his fault just like not every loss next season will be Leighton's. And not every win was all thanks to Stevens just like not every win will be solely because of Leighton. That is the only thing I am not looking forward to with this season.
Sports fans, bro.

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08-28-2010, 07:45 PM
  #35
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im perfectly happy with having Leights in net, althou i would rather we had picked up another goalie to have fought for starter with him, rather then just handing it to him..

but with that said, im looking forward to the upcoming season and could care less what the haters think..

win or loss, im still there cheering...

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08-28-2010, 09:23 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
im perfectly happy with having Leights in net, althou i would rather we had picked up another goalie to have fought for starter with him, rather then just handing it to him..

but with that said, im looking forward to the upcoming season and could care less what the haters think..

win or loss, im still there cheering...
I think we all wish we'd got another top goalie in, but Panaccio actually relayed it pretty simply.

They didn't have much cap room and they'd already decided to go after Hamhuis with Gagne's money. That didn't work, so they got Meszaros and O'Donnell on July 1. They tried to sign Nabokov and Turco around the draft, but Nabby wanted way too much money and proved he doesn't care about anything but money (i.e. winning the Cup) by fleeing to Russia for big bucks. Turco had already talked to Bowman about holding off signing with anyone until Niemi's arbitration, then he signed for freakin' $1.3M, which is a lot less than Homer offered him. They talked to Ellis too. I guess they just didn't like Mason, who knows. That leaves Theodore and now Niemi still out there.

Acc. to Eklund (TIFWIW) Price is on the move for another #1G so we'll have to see how all that shakes out.

I'd love to see Niemi signed reasonably or even Theodore at camp, but if the org. has decided Leighton is their guy, that's the way it's going to be, nonstop whining on here notwithstanding.

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08-28-2010, 09:53 PM
  #37
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I am not really a big Leighton hater. I think he played great for the Flyers until the Stanley Cup finals obviously. His biggest flaws are 5 hole and rebound control, but this will be his first chance at getting consistent work throughout an entire season as the starter so perhaps those extra games will help him out. With the defense in place he might have a great season like he did last season. Besides perhaps against the Penguins are there any other teams in the East can contend with the Flyers for 7 games? Anyway, Leighton had a terrible finals, but he wasn't the only one and the Blackhawks had a stacked built due to extensions not kicking into this season. I would have preferred someone coming in and competing with Leighton for the starters job like Mason or even Turco at this point but for the time being the Flyers have a guy who saved their season and took them to the Cup finals.

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08-29-2010, 11:50 AM
  #38
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It's called making a save. There's no rebound when the shot goes in the net.
Seriously when you make wicked saves the puck tends to rebound off the goalie and you fault the goalie for those saves, this is not exactly fair especially when it's the complaint on all the goalies.
Furthermore he kept outplaying Brodeur every game against the Devils, so I guess everyone should trash Brodeur right?
lol.

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08-29-2010, 12:18 PM
  #39
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Leighton can't win. If he goes 25-2-3 in his first 30 games, he'll get no credit for it.
yep and when he gives up a goal from center ice some will blame Pronger, Meszaros ect ect...

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08-29-2010, 01:24 PM
  #40
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I am just going to have no expectations and hope for the best.

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08-29-2010, 04:22 PM
  #41
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I'm fine with Leighton to start. And he will probably do just ok. But I really hope Backlund is given the backup role instead of Boosh.

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08-29-2010, 04:51 PM
  #42
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yep and when he gives up a goal from center ice some will blame Pronger, Meszaros ect ect...
I think you are confusing him for "look I'm on the teletron" Nittymaki

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08-29-2010, 04:57 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yep and when he gives up a goal from center ice some will blame Pronger, Meszaros ect ect...
and he will give up goals from center ice. there's no way a team can play at the level it needs to (even with this great defense we have ) if they have no confidence in the overpaid chubb in net behind them. in order to maximize your skill you need to take chances and you need a guy that can stop a two on one or a breakaway once in a while. sad but theodore would be a huge upgrade. i dont care if it was 8 years ago an mvp goalie thats played on horrible defensive teams the last 5 years would be worth dumpin boucher over. its sittin right in front of us. id be retarded not to considering the **** weve spent money on this summer.

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08-30-2010, 12:26 AM
  #44
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lol.
hahahaha. i caught that too.

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08-30-2010, 12:20 PM
  #45
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It'll be bigger than that during the regular season. Point of emphasis this offseason was to clearly not have Pronger and Timonen playing 30 minutes a night each.
All we need out of the third pairing is enough time to reduce the minutes the top guys play slightly over the course of the season to reduce wear and tear.

Pronger 25:55 MPG season / 29:03 Playoffs
Timonen 22:55 / 26:37
Carle 23:23 / 25:53
Coburn 21:08 / 25:09
Krajicek 16:58 / 10:00
Parent 14:46 / 7:28
Bartulis 13:58 / 6:43

Meszaros 20:10 with TB
O'Donnell 18:44 with LA

With the addition of two solid guys who can play decent minutes, I could see the regular season numbers working out like this:

Pronger and Timonen 22 MPG
Carle, Coburn and Meszaros 20 MPG
O'Donnell 16 MPG

You can tweak it any number of ways, but this balance means a significant reduction in strain on the 3 old guys, with more workload going to the young guys who need it for experience.

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08-30-2010, 01:06 PM
  #46
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Again, total fiction. Signing O'Donnell and Shelley on July 1 was not all they were doing.

The Flyers were talking to Ellis, who decided he'd rather compete for a starter's jot with his buddy Smith in Tampa rather than Leighton on the Flyers for the same money.

They were certainly after Turco before and after July 1. Mason, who knows? He blew it by asking Stl Louis for a big raise and they said, FU, we'll get Halak instead. He ended up taking a huge pay cut to be Pavelec's backup in Atlanta. Great move cue ball....
Fact: The Flyers did not sign or trade for a new goalie. Everything else doesn't matter.

I guess I missed the article where Homer mentioned that he was trying to sign Ellis. Do you have a link?

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08-30-2010, 01:29 PM
  #47
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I just want to point out, that those "bad" teams were not only teams that made the playoffs, but one was our division champion, another was the ever-tough Boston Bruins who were sparked by the return of Savard, and the other was a team that knocked out the two "favorites" (though I didn't suspect either would make it far).

He looked bad against ALL of those teams because he was always bad.

He's still bad, if not terrible.

That said, some people are forgetting we were playing some really good competition.

The problem is mostly when we're facing a true offense. When it comes to that, I'm more afraid of some of the Western teams who have serviceable, though clearly not great, depth on the blueline as well as a deadly offense like Vancouver, Detroit, or San Jose than I am of a team like Washington.

I think it's more than possible to get to the Finals again, but at that point, we'll need to compete in a shootout unless our defense really has improved that much.

My biggest hope is that we can spread out the minutes with Meszaros - O'Donnell. If we can get all our pairings playing a solid 20 minutes a night, we might be able to rip apart the postseason with a "fresh" defense (at least fresher than other teams).
Bad teams referred to his regular season competition, and more broadly, to some weak offenses (but overall good teams) he played well against. Boucher played the NJ series, of course.

We are not going to see a 20/20/20 split of D pairings nor should we but if we can get something like 25/22/13 I will be pleased.

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08-30-2010, 01:33 PM
  #48
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If we'll make playoffs and if we'll make a move for starting goaltender at the dead line.. I am fine with anyone in the net during regullar season.

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08-30-2010, 01:35 PM
  #49
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I guess I missed the article where Homer mentioned that he was trying to sign Ellis. Do you have a link?
From CSN (July 1, 2010)...

Sources: Flyers to Make an Offer to Goalie Ellis
Quote:
Could Dan Ellis be the second half of the Flyers’ goaltender equation?

Sources said the Flyers will make an offer to Ellis on Thursday afternoon, once the free agent bidding process begins at high noon.

Negotiations between Mike Liut, who represents Ellis, and the Montreal Canadiens broke off late Wednesday night, without Ellis agreeing to a contract.

Liut represents Flyers’ goalie Michael Leighton, who re-signed with the club on Wednesday afternoon, agreeing to a two-year deal worth $3.1 million.
Link

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08-30-2010, 01:39 PM
  #50
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Fact: The Flyers did not sign or trade for a new goalie. Everything else doesn't matter.

I guess I missed the article where Homer mentioned that he was trying to sign Ellis. Do you have a link?
There was never any indication that the Flyers attempted to sign a goalie on July 1. Turco claimed they offered him a 3 year deal but they denied it. There is nothing to suggest they wanted another goalie after Leighton was signed.

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