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Yet another skate buying question or five.

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Old
08-29-2010, 04:20 AM
  #1
Injektilo
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Yet another skate buying question or five.

So here's my Q:

I have an opportunity to buy a pair of X-40s or X-50s for a very good price, just over $200CAD (taxes included) for the 40s, and just under $300 for the 50s. Give the state of my current skates, I'm probably going to have to get new ones in a year anyway, some of the eyelet rivets are popping out, and the skate book is getting a bit soft. Don't buy Easton skates kids. Or stick bags either, my Easton stick bag is falling apart quickly too.

Problem is, I noticed the blade length is very short on size skates that fit me, I guess Bauer has a different sizing system because I fit nicely into 7s on the x-40 but my current skates (Easton) are 8s. Anyway, the blade length on the Bauers is 263mm, but my eastons are 272.

My old skates were also 263mm, and I skated on them a few weeks ago and realized that I could barely do a crossover backwards because the balance point i was used to was different and I was falling over before I was ready. I'm worried that if I buy these x-40s or 50s in a size 7, they won't be worth using because I won't be able to skate on them.


So, can I get blades that are more what I'm comfortable with fitted in there? How much might that be to buy and have them installed?


Also..... is the extra $100 worth it for the X50s? As in, will I, a mediocre-to-below-mediocre skater notice the difference between the 40s and 50s? Will they stay stiff longer? Last a longer time? Will I notice the difference in weight?

Any help would be appreciated.


Last edited by Injektilo: 08-29-2010 at 04:34 AM.
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08-29-2010, 08:19 AM
  #2
Pierre Gotye
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Never buy a skate unless you have personally put it on your feet. Every manufacturer makes a skate, but they all feel different. Most skates are designed with a different shape of foot in mind. Every human being has a different kind of foot...some have wide feet with low arches, others have narrow feet with higher arches.

Do not buy a skate too small for your foot or too big. This will affect your skating ability and could make long term problems for your foot.


My last go 'round I wanted to buy Graf's but in the end Reebok's felt better to me.

With that said with skates, the more money you spend on them the more rigid, durable and better performing they are.

Entry level skates should only be bought if you're not sure if you want to play hockey full-time. But really, in the end, most people decide they like hockey and want to learn it. So, it's better to buy a higher-dollar skate than a low-dollar one.

There are elite level skates like the Bauer TotalOne, and Reebok 11k's that are excellent skates but will cost you about $700. You can always opt for the previous year models like the 10k or 9k...or something like that. Most stores have older skates still in stock and want to get rid of them so they usually mark them down on pricing.

So in the end, buy as decent a skate as you can afford, just make sure it matches your foot.

Are you buying this skate from a friend? Or someone you know? It's best that you ask your questions to a retailer, they will best be able to answer your concerns.

A good retailer will measure your foot dimensions, find out how long and how wide your feet are and bring out to you a comparable skate for it.


Last edited by Pierre Gotye: 08-29-2010 at 08:25 AM.
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08-29-2010, 09:17 AM
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The different feel of the two blades might have to do with different profiles of the blades rather than the overall length. I went from CCM skates with a factory profile to Easton skates with a factory profile and it improved my backwards skating but I couldn't turn nearly as tight skating forward. I had them profiled and it's almost a best of both worlds situation. New blades are meant to be profiled, it's the easiest customization you can get done to your equipment and if you buy you skates at a decent LHS it's likely included if you ask.

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08-29-2010, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by madmutter View Post
The different feel of the two blades might have to do with different profiles of the blades rather than the overall length. I went from CCM skates with a factory profile to Easton skates with a factory profile and it improved my backwards skating but I couldn't turn nearly as tight skating forward. I had them profiled and it's almost a best of both worlds situation. New blades are meant to be profiled, it's the easiest customization you can get done to your equipment and if you buy you skates at a decent LHS it's likely included if you ask.
Yep, this is pretty much exactly what I was going to type.

As for the extra $100....its hard to say whether they will last you any longer, but if you can swing it without it being a big deal on your wallet, I'd say go for it. Its not going to hurt, and at the very least you'll get a nicer tongue and liner.

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08-29-2010, 11:13 AM
  #5
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Different blade lengths or differences in the profile of the skate are not reasons to skip out on a good pair of skates, especially if the price is right. It's called adjusting. Sure, you might not be able to put them on and skate like you did in your broken in, fully acclimated previous pair, but if you just skate in them for a few weeks you'll forget about the old skates and adjust to any differences in the new ones, as long as the fit is correct.

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08-30-2010, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Different blade lengths or differences in the profile of the skate are not reasons to skip out on a good pair of skates, especially if the price is right. It's called adjusting. Sure, you might not be able to put them on and skate like you did in your broken in, fully acclimated previous pair, but if you just skate in them for a few weeks you'll forget about the old skates and adjust to any differences in the new ones, as long as the fit is correct.


Yeah, problem is that I wore my old (263mm) bladed skates this summer once, and my skating ability was greatly diminished, at least when it came to skating backwards, which is kinda key for a Dman. I can adjust to shorter blades, but not completely, I don't think. My skating improved by a good 15-20% just with the slightly longer blades, IMO. I guess it could have been something else, like the stiffness of the boot...

The rest of the fit was fine, I'm mostly worried about the length of the blade and how much it affects my skating. I know a smaller blade would make me a bit more maneuverable, but I'm sure I'd have some trouble with skating backwards.

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08-30-2010, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentbreakaway23 View Post
Never buy a skate unless you have personally put it on your feet. Every manufacturer makes a skate, but they all feel different. Most skates are designed with a different shape of foot in mind. Every human being has a different kind of foot...some have wide feet with low arches, others have narrow feet with higher arches.

Do not buy a skate too small for your foot or too big. This will affect your skating ability and could make long term problems for your foot.


My last go 'round I wanted to buy Graf's but in the end Reebok's felt better to me.

With that said with skates, the more money you spend on them the more rigid, durable and better performing they are.

Entry level skates should only be bought if you're not sure if you want to play hockey full-time. But really, in the end, most people decide they like hockey and want to learn it. So, it's better to buy a higher-dollar skate than a low-dollar one.

There are elite level skates like the Bauer TotalOne, and Reebok 11k's that are excellent skates but will cost you about $700. You can always opt for the previous year models like the 10k or 9k...or something like that. Most stores have older skates still in stock and want to get rid of them so they usually mark them down on pricing.

So in the end, buy as decent a skate as you can afford, just make sure it matches your foot.

Are you buying this skate from a friend? Or someone you know? It's best that you ask your questions to a retailer, they will best be able to answer your concerns.

A good retailer will measure your foot dimensions, find out how long and how wide your feet are and bring out to you a comparable skate for it.
Yeah, I know that, I'm getting these skates from a Bauer dealer whom I've helped out before, which is why he's offering me this deal. He did a proper fitting on the foot, the only reason I didn't order the skates is because I was worried about the blade length issue. I can still put the order in now though, if I do it soon.


I think I'll go for it, my understanding is that I can get new, longer blades put in which would be closer to the 272mm ones I'm comfortable with now. There's a little gap at either end of the holder where longer blades could be put in.


Hey, does anyone know if I could have the blade removed from my current skates and put into the new Bauer ones? Assuming they fit, after all....

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08-30-2010, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmutter View Post
The different feel of the two blades might have to do with different profiles of the blades rather than the overall length. I went from CCM skates with a factory profile to Easton skates with a factory profile and it improved my backwards skating but I couldn't turn nearly as tight skating forward. I had them profiled and it's almost a best of both worlds situation. New blades are meant to be profiled, it's the easiest customization you can get done to your equipment and if you buy you skates at a decent LHS it's likely included if you ask.
What exactly does profile/profiling mean? Length plus width plus sharpening depth?

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08-30-2010, 09:17 AM
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The guys above got it right, do not ever buy skates unless a very competent person has fit you to them. I wasted $600 on skates that weren't fit properly before buying ones that did.

What my shop did was find a pair of skates that fit really snug in the heel/ankle, and then get them as small as I was comfortable, then stretch the front as it was too narrow. The heel/ankle fit is CRUCIAL. If you don't get that right, you're going to need new skates again. You can always stretch skates that are too narrow, can't make them any smaller though.

As for the blade length, I went from 272 to 263 back to 272 and didn't notice a difference after one skate. The pitch and radius on the other hand was huge. I went from Bauers with 9' radius and neutral pitch to Grafs with 11' radius and forward pitch. I tried to adjust for a few months, but when I got them put back to 9' and neutral pitch, my skating and balance went right back to normal.

Do a Google search on skate profiling for good info...basically it's how curved or flat the length of the skate blade is (radius) and whether you are flat, on your heels, or on your toes (pitch).

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08-30-2010, 03:28 PM
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I highly doubt you're feeling blade length as much as the profile of the blades combined with the holder and boot pitch.

Get the skates that work for you, dont worry about the length of the steel and then work with a good sharpener to get them profiled to your liking.

To answer your question though, you cannot take steel from any other sized holder and put it in the ones on the new skates. They are sized specifically to holder size, a 272 steel will not fit in your 263 holder.

The only thing that can be said for a "longer" steel is to go with LS2.1 power steel. Its slightly longer than LS2 steel for the same sized holder.

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08-30-2010, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Injektilo View Post
Or stick bags either, my Easton stick bag is falling apart quickly too.
Don't buy Easton, Period.

But anyway, If you've never worn Bauers before, TRY THEM ON. And the diffrence between the x40s and 50s arnt worth the $100.

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08-30-2010, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jsykes View Post
I highly doubt you're feeling blade length as much as the profile of the blades combined with the holder and boot pitch.

Get the skates that work for you, dont worry about the length of the steel and then work with a good sharpener to get them profiled to your liking.

To answer your question though, you cannot take steel from any other sized holder and put it in the ones on the new skates. They are sized specifically to holder size, a 272 steel will not fit in your 263 holder.

The only thing that can be said for a "longer" steel is to go with LS2.1 power steel. Its slightly longer than LS2 steel for the same sized holder.

The skates i'm getting have a slight gap at either end in the holder where the blade goes in, I was told by the guy i'm buying them from that it's possible to get longer blades to fit in there, slightly longer. And yes, the guy I'm buying them from is a Bauer dealer, so I assume he knows what he's talking about.


Sounds like it might have been the profiling of my old skates that was throwing me off... I'm still a bit worried, but hopefully I can figure something out. If it doesn't work... maybe I'll have one set of skates for playing forward and one for playing D.

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08-31-2010, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Injektilo View Post
The skates i'm getting have a slight gap at either end in the holder where the blade goes in, I was told by the guy i'm buying them from that it's possible to get longer blades to fit in there, slightly longer. And yes, the guy I'm buying them from is a Bauer dealer, so I assume he knows what he's talking about.
He's talking about the LS2.1 power runners, which are a fraction longer than normal LS2 runners. Its not quite as long as the next step up runner in length.

The mounting points on runners for a 263 and 272 are different. They will not fit into the same holder.

I'm not saying dont try them, I'm just saying dont get your hopes up that it will completely transform the feel of your skates.

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09-02-2010, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsykes View Post
He's talking about the LS2.1 power runners, which are a fraction longer than normal LS2 runners. Its not quite as long as the next step up runner in length.

The mounting points on runners for a 263 and 272 are different. They will not fit into the same holder.

I'm not saying dont try them, I'm just saying dont get your hopes up that it will completely transform the feel of your skates.

I think he meant that the runners were for the next size up, ie each runner works for two sizes, and my size 7 skates had runners that were for 7s and 7.5s, meaning there's a slight gap at either end. He showed me how the runner fit closer to the edge of the boot than it did on a different sized skate. Whether or not a new blade could be put in there, I don't know, but he seemed to think so.

Any idea what the progression is for blade lengths? is the next one after 263 a 272? Is there something in between?


It could have been the profiling that's different between my Eastons and my old skates, but I feel like that extra 9mm might have made a difference. I notice it mostly while doing crossovers, forwards and backwards. I could maintain my balance longer while on an angle on one skate with the Eastons (272mm) than my old 263mm Mission skates. It allowed me to make sharper crossover turns and keep my balance longer. I had a lot of trouble doing sharp-turn backwards crossovers before, but with my longer blades my mobility improved a ton in one shot.


I'll have to get the profiling checked when I get the new skates, but that won't be for a bit anyway. Hope it turns out. $220cdn for a pair of x-40s is a pretty good price. They seem to be $329usd online everywhere, and $399cdn plus tax on www.prohockeylife.com .

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09-02-2010, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Injektilo View Post
Any idea what the progression is for blade lengths? is the next one after 263 a 272? Is there something in between?
Senior Tuuk sizes: 254, 263, 272, 280, 288, 296, 306, 322

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09-02-2010, 10:09 AM
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272mm-263mm=9mm. Thats less than 3/8". This is a very small difference that you will adjust to in time and it is highly unlikely that this is the cause of the difference in skating ability from one pair of skates to the other. If your old skates were just as good as your current skates why did you replace them? Unless they are identical and the only difference is the blade length, why have you isolated this one factor as the cause? I doubt that blade length is something that most people give a thought to, including high level players.

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09-03-2010, 06:31 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by madmutter View Post
272mm-263mm=9mm. Thats less than 3/8". This is a very small difference that you will adjust to in time and it is highly unlikely that this is the cause of the difference in skating ability from one pair of skates to the other. If your old skates were just as good as your current skates why did you replace them? Unless they are identical and the only difference is the blade length, why have you isolated this one factor as the cause? I doubt that blade length is something that most people give a thought to, including high level players.
3/8" is a huge deal in hockey... You don't go from 3/4" hollow to 1" hollow and not notice a difference.

Regardless, if you get these skates, just have your sharpener (hopefully one that knows what he's doing) profile your steel to 11'. That will give you considerably more steel to balance on while skating backwards.

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09-03-2010, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by IniNew View Post
3/8" is a huge deal in hockey... You don't go from 3/4" hollow to 1" hollow and not notice a difference.
3/8" in runner length to 3/8" in hollow depth is not a fair comparison.

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09-03-2010, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Injektilo View Post
I think he meant that the runners were for the next size up, ie each runner works for two sizes, and my size 7 skates had runners that were for 7s and 7.5s, meaning there's a slight gap at either end. He showed me how the runner fit closer to the edge of the boot than it did on a different sized skate. Whether or not a new blade could be put in there, I don't know, but he seemed to think so.
This is true. A 263 is used on both a 7 and 7.5 skate, a size 8 will jump to 272.

However, a 272 runner will NOT fit into a 263 holder. I know there is a bit of a gap in the holder, I have 263 LS2 on my skates. A LS2.1 runner for a 263 will fit into the same holder and take up that little bit of space, however, its still a 263, NOT a 272.

A LS2.1 runner in 263 will give you ALMOST the length of a normal 272 runner. This is your only option for a longer runner on your skate. Its also not a huge expense to do it, however, I think its extremely unnecessary. Additionally, the lengths of runners from Tuuk, Easton, Graf, etc, all the same size of 263, will also all be different actual lengths.

The feel of the skate has much more to do with the pitch of the holder, the aggressiveness of the skate boot and the profile of the runner. All three of these could have been different on your two skates and will affect how you feel. It will also be different on the Bauers and will affect how you feel.

Get the skates, skate on them a few times and then start to work with someone that actually knows something about profiling and skate fitting and they'll help you narrow down what you need to do to get the feel you're looking for. The very last thing anyone doing this kind of work will do is look to change the runner length.

BTW, I went from a skate that was too big for me and had a longer holder/runner on it and was concerned before buying mine about how it would make me feel. I considered swapping holders and such, but was told I was making waaaaay too big a deal about blade length. I got my new skates and had a real hard time dealing with the different pitch and positioning of the new skates. I worked with someone, asked questions and eventually got my runners profiled and put a lift in the heel and it transformed the skates and made them way better than I could hope.

Do this and stop worrying about the length and WHEN the new skates feel different, do not blame it on the length and work with the other things you can work with to get them right for you.

Good Luck.

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Any idea what the progression is for blade lengths? is the next one after 263 a 272? Is there something in between?
No, as stated.

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Old
09-04-2010, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmutter View Post
272mm-263mm=9mm. Thats less than 3/8". This is a very small difference that you will adjust to in time and it is highly unlikely that this is the cause of the difference in skating ability from one pair of skates to the other. If your old skates were just as good as your current skates why did you replace them? Unless they are identical and the only difference is the blade length, why have you isolated this one factor as the cause? I doubt that blade length is something that most people give a thought to, including high level players.
I bought these new skates (x40s) because my current ones (eastons) are getting old, I figure they've got another year or less of use in them. And I was given an opportunity to get new skates a fantastic deal, more than 50% off the price i'd pay in a store in Canada.

I was concerned about the blade length because that seemed to be a possible reason why I could do crossovers backwards and forwards so well in my current skates but in my old skates it felt like my feet would give out on me at that crucial moment when one is balanced on a single skate and carving the ice to turn. I figured blade length might be a difference.



In any case, its seems like the profiling might have been the difference. I'll talk to my guy, and see what he thinks. Guess I won't really know for sure until I can try them on, which won't be for a while unfortunately.


Last edited by Injektilo: 09-04-2010 at 07:51 AM.
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09-04-2010, 07:46 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by jsykes View Post
This is true. A 263 is used on both a 7 and 7.5 skate, a size 8 will jump to 272.

However, a 272 runner will NOT fit into a 263 holder. I know there is a bit of a gap in the holder, I have 263 LS2 on my skates. A LS2.1 runner for a 263 will fit into the same holder and take up that little bit of space, however, its still a 263, NOT a 272.

A LS2.1 runner in 263 will give you ALMOST the length of a normal 272 runner. This is your only option for a longer runner on your skate. Its also not a huge expense to do it, however, I think its extremely unnecessary. Additionally, the lengths of runners from Tuuk, Easton, Graf, etc, all the same size of 263, will also all be different actual lengths.

The feel of the skate has much more to do with the pitch of the holder, the aggressiveness of the skate boot and the profile of the runner. All three of these could have been different on your two skates and will affect how you feel. It will also be different on the Bauers and will affect how you feel.

Get the skates, skate on them a few times and then start to work with someone that actually knows something about profiling and skate fitting and they'll help you narrow down what you need to do to get the feel you're looking for. The very last thing anyone doing this kind of work will do is look to change the runner length.

BTW, I went from a skate that was too big for me and had a longer holder/runner on it and was concerned before buying mine about how it would make me feel. I considered swapping holders and such, but was told I was making waaaaay too big a deal about blade length. I got my new skates and had a real hard time dealing with the different pitch and positioning of the new skates. I worked with someone, asked questions and eventually got my runners profiled and put a lift in the heel and it transformed the skates and made them way better than I could hope.

Do this and stop worrying about the length and WHEN the new skates feel different, do not blame it on the length and work with the other things you can work with to get them right for you.

Good Luck.



No, as stated.

Cool, thanks for the help. I won't worry about it too much till I actually skate in them a few times. Hopefully the simple fact that they're a much higher quality skate (x-40s instead of my current Easton S6) will help a ton.

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09-05-2010, 11:13 AM
  #22
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3/8" in runner length to 3/8" in hollow depth is not a fair comparison.
How's a 1mm heel lift for you then? That is also a huge change in skating stance, and I know. I had them installed on my skates. With something as precise as a hockey skate, where all of the movement is based on a 1/4" piece of steel, any minute change is going to make it feel different.

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09-05-2010, 11:51 AM
  #23
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How's a 1mm heel lift for you then? That is also a huge change in skating stance, and I know. I had them installed on my skates. With something as precise as a hockey skate, where all of the movement is based on a 1/4" piece of steel, any minute change is going to make it feel different.
Really? You can notice a 1mm difference? Thats like sock thickness or less. And yes I know different socks can make a difference - in comfort and that this may translate to a performance gain. But I highly doubt skating stance will be appreciatively changed by a difference of less than a dime thickness.

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09-06-2010, 03:05 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmutter View Post
Really? You can notice a 1mm difference? Thats like sock thickness or less. And yes I know different socks can make a difference - in comfort and that this may translate to a performance gain. But I highly doubt skating stance will be appreciatively changed by a difference of less than a dime thickness.
In the case of lifts, it does make a difference. I put a 1.5mm lift in mine and it made a huge difference and its very easy to tell.

However, in the length of runners its not NEARLY as easy to tell.

But a mm in the profile of the blade or in the angle of the holder/boot, is definitely noticeable.

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