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Rolston to Colorado

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Old
08-29-2010, 01:34 PM
  #51
chewey
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$10M for a prospect the Avs aren't interested in and a 1st round pick that will probably be bottom 10? Right. I can see many reasons for management to do this. Seems like a wise investment.

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08-29-2010, 01:52 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
$10M for a prospect the Avs aren't interested in and a 1st round pick that will probably be bottom 10? Right. I can see many reasons for management to do this. Seems like a wise investment.
If the final payroll for the Avs will be $43M, then I would not mind investing an extra $5M for two years to get the services of Brian Rolston and a 1st round pick. Bottom 10 or not.

I dont understand why so many Avs fans are so complacent. If you are offered a 1st round pick for nothing but taking on Brian Rolston, you take it. It doesnt make the team worse, it doesnt take up salary from any other players, it doesnt take time away from the core kids, and you get twice as likely a shot at getting a hit in the '11 draft.

The only reason this would never happen is because New Jersey isnt stupid enough to offer that. Whether or not you like Rolston, an extra first round pick is useful enough to justify taking on that contract. Especially for a team like the Avs who has more than enough room to fit him in.

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08-29-2010, 01:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
If the final payroll for the Avs will be $43M, then I would not mind investing an extra $5M for two years to get the services of Brian Rolston and a 1st round pick. Bottom 10 or not.
Great, why don't you go write Kroenke a check and we'll call it a done deal?

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08-29-2010, 01:55 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
$10M for a prospect the Avs aren't interested in and a 1st round pick that will probably be bottom 10? Right. I can see many reasons for management to do this. Seems like a wise investment.
Avs have been, post-lockout, able to turn 1st and 2nd round picks into something worthwhile. I think a 1st round pick would have quite a bit of value to us.

If we still were picking the Kuleshovs, Johanssons and Nedorosts I would agree with you.

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08-29-2010, 01:58 PM
  #55
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As an Avs fan, I don't want Rolston unless the Devils are willing to give up one of Urbom, Josefson or Tedenby. I know Devil fans aren't going to be willing to give them up, but there's no reason for the Avalanche to take him on unless we're getting a need back.

Of course, if they wanted to trade Zubrus I'd be willing to take him on.

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08-29-2010, 02:00 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
The only reason this would never happen is because New Jersey isnt stupid enough to offer that. Whether or not you like Rolston, an extra first round pick is useful enough to justify taking on that contract. Especially for a team like the Avs who has more than enough room to fit him in.
To be honest, I think if it means being able to keep Parise - Zajac - Elias, Kovalchuk - Arnott - Langenbrunner, Zubrus as 3rd line C, and their current group of defense, Lou would be willing to give up a 1st to move Rolston. Adding on Kovalchuk permanently and being able to roll with that group of players before Brodeur retires is worth giving up a low 1st.

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08-29-2010, 02:01 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by GobiasIndustries View Post
As an Avs fan, I don't want Rolston unless the Devils are willing to give up one of Urbom, Josefson or Tedenby. I know Devil fans aren't going to be willing to give them up, but there's no reason for the Avalanche to take him on unless we're getting a need back.

Of course, if they wanted to trade Zubrus I'd be willing to take him on.
If I were the Devils and were about to have Parise and Kovalchuk on my left wing for godonlyknows how many years, I'd trade you Rolston and Tedenby for a moderate prospect or a low pick. Not gonna speak for Devils fans, though.

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08-29-2010, 02:09 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NHL33 View Post
Great, why don't you go write Kroenke a check and we'll call it a done deal?
The Avs still need to get over the cap floor. This is money that will be spent regardless of if it ends up in Rolston's bank account or Chris Stewart's.

Obviously the premise of my post is provided that the team is not limited by an internal budget and has the money to spend as well. I dont know the Avs financial situation exactly, but I dont think they are exactly struggling for money.

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08-29-2010, 02:13 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
The Avs still need to get over the cap floor. This is money that will be spent regardless of if it ends up in Rolston's bank account or Chris Stewart's.

Obviously the premise of my post is provided that the team is not limited by an internal budget and has the money to spend as well. I dont know the Avs financial situation exactly, but I dont think they are exactly struggling for money.
From what I know, they aren't doing so poorly that they couldn't afford to add on a 20 goal scorer and a good pick/prospect for essentially nothing and a total payroll of $43m. The way I see the addition of Rolston's scoring and leadership, it increases the chances of the Avs making the playoffs again, the added revenue from such certainly helping offset any financial penalty Rolston's contract may have.

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08-29-2010, 02:31 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
The Avs still need to get over the cap floor. This is money that will be spent regardless of if it ends up in Rolston's bank account or Chris Stewart's.

Obviously the premise of my post is provided that the team is not limited by an internal budget and has the money to spend as well. I dont know the Avs financial situation exactly, but I dont think they are exactly struggling for money.
We don't need other peoples garbage to get over the cap floor. That's exactly what Rolston is right now. Really expensive garbage.

Once again, when Mules and MBP get signed, we'll be over the floor. Other teams don't need to take pity on us and offer us contracts for nothing to 'help us out'. We'll be just fine.

I don't want Rolston's spot taking away from one of Yip, Stoa, or Jones. I'd rather see those guys put up 30pts a season for 1/5 the price, and be a long term parts of this franchise, rather than re-acquiring a 37 year old guy nobody liked here in the first place. Not even for the 20-30th pick in the draft. It's just not worth it, boss.

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08-29-2010, 02:31 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
The Avs still need to get over the cap floor. This is money that will be spent regardless of if it ends up in Rolston's bank account or Chris Stewart's.

Obviously the premise of my post is provided that the team is not limited by an internal budget and has the money to spend as well. I dont know the Avs financial situation exactly, but I dont think they are exactly struggling for money.
Between Stewart and Mueller, the cap floor will be met. Non-factor.

Nobody knows the financial situation for sure but they have recently cut spending, dating back to Smyth, and have yet to add despite a mediocre blue line. Maybe the sale of the St. Louis Rams is a factor. Again, nobody here definitively knows.

For the team to bite on Rolston's salary I think an asset like Urbom would have to be included instead. Of course, that is something New Jersey wouldn't do.

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08-29-2010, 02:34 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Flashing Lights View Post
If the Kings traded for Rolston, he'd probably end up on your 1st line at LW.
Hah.

Hahahahaha.

No, just no. He wouldn't, and thanks for playing.

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08-29-2010, 02:34 PM
  #63
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I think it's more of a: well, if we were just given Rolston and a first and didn't have to pay salary, sure we'll take him, worst case he sits in the press box. Rolston can play hockey but he is overpaid to some degree.

But since Kroenke has to actually pay the $10M, a nice compensation to justify the expense is needed. We'd all agree a fourth doesn't justify it (but it is getting something for just money without 'hurting' anything else).

A first i'm hesitant to pull the trigger on - doesn't seem like enough for the price to me. Urbom i'd do.

Incentive is required and a first isn't juicy enough for me. If cost meant nothing then yes you take it, but they do so might as well get something really nice out of it.

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08-29-2010, 02:36 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GobiasIndustries View Post
Of course, if they wanted to trade Zubrus I'd be willing to take him on.
If Rolston can't be moved, Zubrus must be. So that is a possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
To be honest, I think if it means being able to keep Parise - Zajac - Elias, Kovalchuk - Arnott - Langenbrunner, Zubrus as 3rd line C, and their current group of defense, Lou would be willing to give up a 1st to move Rolston. Adding on Kovalchuk permanently and being able to roll with that group of players before Brodeur retires is worth giving up a low 1st.
I would agree. This is why most Devils fans would have no problem with trading Rolston and a first for future considerations right now.

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Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
If I were the Devils and were about to have Parise and Kovalchuk on my left wing for godonlyknows how many years, I'd trade you Rolston and Tedenby for a moderate prospect or a low pick. Not gonna speak for Devils fans, though.
I'd say you're correct. Tedenby is a player whose skill set requires him to play in the top 6, or else he is not effective. If Parise and Kovalchuk are both signed long term, there will obviously not be any room to break into the Devils' top 6 as a LW any time soon. So unless the Devils are planning to convert Tedenby to a RW, he is expendable.

Long story short, we'd prefer not to lose Tedenby to make the Rolston dump happen, but if it happens, we'd understand why it had to be done. Josefson and Urbom are out of the question.

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08-29-2010, 03:04 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I dont understand why so many Avs fans are so complacent. If you are offered a 1st round pick for nothing but taking on Brian Rolston, you take it.
What's so hard to understand? The five million dollars Rolston will make the next two seasons would make him Colorado's second highest paid player, yet he'd be lucky to wrestle away a top nine role from Brandon Yip or David Jones.

Colorado isn't so hard up for prospects and picks that they'll take on a bad contract. The ability to absorb it isn't reason enough for them to do it; they aren't a team in shambles who needs shortcuts to get ahead.

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08-29-2010, 03:24 PM
  #66
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What's so hard to understand? The five million dollars Rolston will make the next two seasons would make him Colorado's second highest paid player, yet he'd be lucky to wrestle away a top nine role from Brandon Yip or David Jones.

Colorado isn't so hard up for prospects and picks that they'll take on a bad contract. The ability to absorb it isn't reason enough for them to do it; they aren't a team in shambles who needs shortcuts to get ahead.
There's nothing else to understand. It's a difference in philosophy.

I think acquiring an extra 1st rounder justifies taking on a bad contract. As long as he does not take money or ice time away from a player who needs it, I see no problem with it. The fact that he'd be the Avs second highest paid player is irrelevant. Everyone knows he doesnt deserve that contract.


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Originally Posted by StanGetz View Post
We don't need other peoples garbage to get over the cap floor. That's exactly what Rolston is right now. Really expensive garbage.

Once again, when Mules and MBP get signed, we'll be over the floor. Other teams don't need to take pity on us and offer us contracts for nothing to 'help us out'. We'll be just fine.

I don't want Rolston's spot taking away from one of Yip, Stoa, or Jones. I'd rather see those guys put up 30pts a season for 1/5 the price, and be a long term parts of this franchise, rather than re-acquiring a 37 year old guy nobody liked here in the first place. Not even for the 20-30th pick in the draft. It's just not worth it, boss.
This is typical HFboards BS. Rolston is overpaid by quite a bit, but he is not "garbage". If he was being paid what he is worth, then he wouldnt be the odd man out in New Jersey.

Being overpaid does NOT equate to being a bad player.

My point regarding the cap floor wasnt the fact that the Avs would have any trouble getting over it. Try reading my post next time. My point was that the money would be spent anyways regardless of who the money goes to.

As for the rest of your post, well, there is room to fit Rolston on the roster. He wouldnt be in the top nine, in all likelihood, but there is room.

It just comes down to the fact that I think a 1st round pick is incentive enough to take on a bad contract. That's all. I dont think Rolston is a fit in Colorado, but that doesnt really chance what I am saying. That's the whole point of the additional 1st round pick.

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08-29-2010, 03:42 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
There's nothing else to understand. It's a difference in philosophy.

I think acquiring an extra 1st rounder justifies taking on a bad contract. As long as he does not take money or ice time away from a player who needs it, I see no problem with it. The fact that he'd be the Avs second highest paid player is irrelevant. Everyone knows he doesnt deserve that contract.
No, it's very relevant because good teams don't have bad asset management.

RFA's Mueller and Stewart still need to be signed for this season, and next year Cumiskey, Jones, Wilson, Porter, and Galiardi are RFA's. Add those up, and we're talking roughly 10+ million combined.

While those players and Rolston's salary don't put Colorado over the cap, they're handcuffed if they seek to sign a big contract free agent next summer, much like the Devils are currently.

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08-29-2010, 03:42 PM
  #68
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I would do Rolston + Urbom for Cumiskey. Anything short of that -- including Tedenby -- wouldn't be worth it to CO. Any further salary going back to NJ, and it's not worth it to them. A low 1st like NJ will have is not worth it either. It's gotta be a pretty sure thing.

I think Rolston isn't quite the albatross some CO fans are saying either. He'd be a solid top 6-9 option at LW -- and let's face it, there's question marks on that side for CO -- and Urbom would fill a huge need for CO.

This has been discussed ad nauseum before. see:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=806219

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08-29-2010, 04:05 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
If the final payroll for the Avs will be $43M, then I would not mind investing an extra $5M for two years to get the services of Brian Rolston and a 1st round pick. Bottom 10 or not.
Right. How about the Avs wait until they sign Chris Stewart and Peter Mueller and figure out how much they are below the cap floor (if at all) cause then I am sure they'd invest in someone. I can promise you, it won't be a player whose cap hit is 5M.

You don't need to spend $10M to reach the floor if after you've signed your RFAs all you really needed was $2M or less. See the difference in figures now?

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I dont understand why so many Avs fans are so complacent. If you are offered a 1st round pick for nothing but taking on Brian Rolston, you take it. It doesnt make the team worse, it doesnt take up salary from any other players, it doesnt take time away from the core kids, and you get twice as likely a shot at getting a hit in the '11 draft.
No. You don't. You don't pay $10M for a bottom 10 pick. No management in the league would gamble on that especially if that player becomes a bust. It does make the team worse financially. As for taking time away from the core kids, really? The reason Gali became a core kid at end of last season was because he earned himself the spot by going through the 4th and 3rd lines. Yip, same deal. If we had a player like say oh Rolsotn on the 3rd and 4th line we wouldn't know what our prospects are capable of. He does take time away.

Quote:
The only reason this would never happen is because New Jersey isnt stupid enough to offer that. Whether or not you like Rolston, an extra first round pick is useful enough to justify taking on that contract. Especially for a team like the Avs who has more than enough room to fit him in.
NJ isn't stupid enough to sell their first round pick for $10M and in doing do relieving themselves of a bad contract? Again, hockey stand point sure. However hockey is a business and that's a stupid move from a managerial stand point.

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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Avs have been, post-lockout, able to turn 1st and 2nd round picks into something worthwhile. I think a 1st round pick would have quite a bit of value to us.

If we still were picking the Kuleshovs, Johanssons and Nedorosts I would agree with you.
No doubt about that. I've had the upmost faith in Avs drafting in recent years.

- Stastny
- RoR
- Holos
- Chouinard
- Cumiskey
- Shattenkirk
- Stewart

however, they've also had some failures as well. Peter Delmas, Kelsey Tessier, Fritsche, Durand, Williams, etc. It is far from a sure thing. If the Avs want to add another first round pick, no problem. I don't have an issue doing that. I only have my doubts about them doing that by investing $10M.

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08-29-2010, 04:07 PM
  #70
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The whole thing feels like a step back for the Avs, regardless of pick they would receive as compensation.

The Avs are a team who have just finished clearing away older players with expensive contracts with the intent of saving money and giving young players a chance to prove themselves and develop their game together.

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08-29-2010, 06:05 PM
  #71
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I do think Rolston would help the Avs, they were my team before the Sharks so I watch them somewhat...his experience could help, I think if it was only one year it would make sense, but 2 does potentially slow their youth devolopment...if it is going to take a 1st rounder for him to get moved I dont see why the Leafs wouldnt be of some interest, they dont have the best forward depth to say the least, sending Finger to the minors might be all they would have to do with the cap

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08-29-2010, 08:06 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
There's nothing else to understand. It's a difference in philosophy.

I think acquiring an extra 1st rounder justifies taking on a bad contract. As long as he does not take money or ice time away from a player who needs it, I see no problem with it. The fact that he'd be the Avs second highest paid player is irrelevant. Everyone knows he doesnt deserve that contract.




This is typical HFboards BS. Rolston is overpaid by quite a bit, but he is not "garbage". If he was being paid what he is worth, then he wouldnt be the odd man out in New Jersey.

Being overpaid does NOT equate to being a bad player.

My point regarding the cap floor wasnt the fact that the Avs would have any trouble getting over it. Try reading my post next time. My point was that the money would be spent anyways regardless of who the money goes to.

As for the rest of your post, well, there is room to fit Rolston on the roster. He wouldnt be in the top nine, in all likelihood, but there is room.

It just comes down to the fact that I think a 1st round pick is incentive enough to take on a bad contract. That's all. I dont think Rolston is a fit in Colorado, but that doesnt really chance what I am saying. That's the whole point of the additional 1st round pick.
You're right, calling him garbage is overboard. That's my bad.

I understand where you're coming from. Draft picks are a coveted commodity these days. However, it would be a tough pill to swallow for any Avs fan to take on that much salary for a fourth-liner and a low first rounder.

Stew and Mules will most likely be the last of our signings/acquisitions. I don't think any of us Avs fans see them spending five million on any player, much less Rolston. Whether that's because of an internal budget, or just following our rebuild path, I don't know. Every indication is we're going with what we have, which I like. Some don't, but that's the way it is right now.

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08-30-2010, 10:13 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
If the final payroll for the Avs will be $43M, then I would not mind investing an extra $5M for two years to get the services of Brian Rolston and a 1st round pick. Bottom 10 or not.

I dont understand why so many Avs fans are so complacent. If you are offered a 1st round pick for nothing but taking on Brian Rolston, you take it. It doesnt make the team worse, it doesnt take up salary from any other players, it doesnt take time away from the core kids, and you get twice as likely a shot at getting a hit in the '11 draft.

The only reason this would never happen is because New Jersey isnt stupid enough to offer that. Whether or not you like Rolston, an extra first round pick is useful enough to justify taking on that contract. Especially for a team like the Avs who has more than enough room to fit him in.
Here's the thing, NJ will win their division again... so that 1st round pick becomes a late 1st round pick and almost like a 2nd round pick.

Yes the Avs can afford to take on the cap hit, but suppose they want to sign some free agents next season? They would then be limited with a big cap hit for a 4th line player.

And really, the Avs don't need more vets on the team, they have plenty of them.

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