HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Canucks Sign F Bill Sweatt to 3-Year ELC, $900k per ($300k bonuses) Deal

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-30-2010, 01:54 PM
  #401
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Its a good read, Wet. Its basically a background interview from childhood to college in paragraph form.

I had a fun time imagining a roller-rink in a basement.
I just cannot bring myself to add a click to Eklund's site.

Some of us do have principles, eh?

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 01:56 PM
  #402
701
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Vancouver & OK Falls
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
I just cannot bring myself to add a click to Eklund's site.

Some of us do have principles, eh?
Hey Wet, it's worth it: a good read.

Just close your eyes, and think of England

701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 01:58 PM
  #403
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Yup. And the Leafs opted out and signed Marcell Muller for $75k less who I think is also a 3rd liner but slow, with size.

Give here, take there. Not sure why the venomous hate for Sweatt...
Sweatt hasn't been a topic of discussion for a long time because in reality people know what he is.

Muller has a ways to go also, no question about that.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 01:58 PM
  #404
ddawg1950
Registered User
 
ddawg1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,717
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 701 View Post
Hey Wet, it's worth it: a good read.

Just close your eyes, and think of England
Great line.

ddawg1950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 03:20 PM
  #405
Free Torts
Registered User
 
Free Torts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,704
vCash: 883
Send a message via MSN to Free Torts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gberg View Post
And I love how you guys say he'll fit in quite nicely in your bottom 6 when you know nothing about this player as well.
"What's that? No room for our top 6? Just throw em in the bottom and he'll fit right in"
I know you're responding to me here, but seeing as every scouting report on Sweatt - apart from the one held by Leaf fans who have likely never seen the guy play - suggests he'd be suitable for a bottom-six role, he'll do just fine in Vancouver should an opportunity arise for him to play in the NHL.

Free Torts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 03:30 PM
  #406
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 701 View Post
Hey Wet, it's worth it: a good read.

Just close your eyes, and think of England
I tried it and I could only think of Eklund.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 03:37 PM
  #407
ddawg1950
Registered User
 
ddawg1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,717
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
I tried it and I could only think of Eklund.
Nothing but gold today!

ddawg1950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 03:56 PM
  #408
701
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Vancouver & OK Falls
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
I tried it and I could only think of Eklund.
Well then, I understand.

No Sweatt

701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 04:16 PM
  #409
Jay Cee
P4G
 
Jay Cee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,823
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
I just cannot bring myself to add a click to Eklund's site.

Some of us do have principles, eh?
I have a similar boycott going for eklund's website. It has been well over a 2 years now.

Keep fighting the good fight! Do not give that man a red penny.

Jay Cee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 04:23 PM
  #410
Gberg
Registered User
 
Gberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 985
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
That is only if you believe Burkie's version and we in Vancouver have learned that is a mug's game.

How do you know when Burkie is lying? His lips are moving.

Sometimes the classics just work.

Forgive me for not remembering/knowing (merely curious).
What injustices has Burke done to you as a Canucks fan?

Apart from these tampering charges... LOL


And yes, I guess I wouldn't know if Burke is lying.. but I don't think I would be able to survive if I went around thinking everyone was a liar.

Gberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 04:25 PM
  #411
Gberg
Registered User
 
Gberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 985
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Translation: Burke made an offer, the kid didn't like it, so instead of continuing negotiations, Burke for reasons known only to himself just assumes the kid will sign eventually, and then is surprised when it doesn't happen.

How is the kid responsible for Burke's bad judgement? If anything, the disrespect is from the Leafs towards Sweatt.
I don't think you understood what I said. Burke had an agreement with Sweatt's agent over a deal -BEFORE- a trade occurred. So you could pretty much understand Burke's frustration when they didn't take his offer after the trade.

Now...granted, as one poster mentioned, who knows if he's telling the truth. It could just be spiteful revenge.

Gberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 04:31 PM
  #412
Gberg
Registered User
 
Gberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 985
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
Who are you quoting here? Certainly not me. I would bet 99% of the posters on here (and Bill Sweatt himself) expect him to be in the AHL.

The only one that seemed to have definitive scouting report was you.

My bad, I read a post that said he was a bottom-6 player, and I countered by saying I didn't think he was ready for a bottom-6 position on an NHL team (and I believe the Canucks have a deep team).

I never gave a "definitive scouting report".

Anywho, I guess my argument is finished.
Congrats to signing Sweatt! He'll probably have a year in the AHL, and then the Canucks can re-evaluate his position with the team (and depending on the roster they carry going into the next off-season).


Now you guys got some cap space to create

Gberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 04:42 PM
  #413
Blane Youngblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gberg View Post
Forgive me for not remembering/knowing (merely curious).
What injustices has Burke done to you as a Canucks fan?
Is Nathan Smith the first thing that comes to mind for anyone else?

Blane Youngblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 04:54 PM
  #414
Burke's Evil Spirit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 15,386
vCash: 500
"Dave Gagner was an integral part of this trade"

Burke's Evil Spirit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 04:54 PM
  #415
701
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Vancouver & OK Falls
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jin View Post
Is Nathan Smith the first thing that comes to mind for anyone else?
Blowing off Umberger, our decent first-round pick, seems marginally even worse to me.

I mean, a bad pick is bad, but losing a good pick because of your own bad personality issues is even badder.

701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 05:00 PM
  #416
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gberg View Post
Forgive me for not remembering/knowing (merely curious).
What injustices has Burke done to you as a Canucks fan?

Apart from these tampering charges... LOL


And yes, I guess I wouldn't know if Burke is lying.. but I don't think I would be able to survive if I went around thinking everyone was a liar.
Not everyone - just Burke as he has demonstrated in the past.

I was referring to Burke's two tours of duty (as Quinns' hatchetman back in the early 1990's and as GM) He was cashiered for good reason on his GM gig. I have had little use for Burke going back over 15 years ago when he was assistant GM in Vancouver. It has nothing to do with this dispute.

I have long held views on Burkie's lack of effectiveness as a GM and hockey executive and lots of ammunition to back up my position. Many Vancouver fans have seen the light and come over from the Dark Side after wrongly believing Burke was a good GM.

Here is a refresher for those who may not be aware of the Mouth that Roared and his stops in Vancouver. When you look at Burkie's record over-all from his time in Vancouver is pretty abysmal. ONE play-off round victory in his tenure as GM - Mike Gillis has already doubled that in his first two years at the helm.

Burke's inability to solve the goaltending problems alone might be enough reason for his departure let alone his draft record and some of his questionable trades and decisions not to re-sign free agents. His act wears thin after awhile.

In June 1998 Burke was hired and who can forget his famous pronouncement about working with Mike Keenan:

"I'm thrilled to have Mike Keenan as my coach. It's not something that I am saddled with. It's something I have been blessed with."


Burke's first moves were to sign Murray Baron as a free agent and IMHO made his first of many goaltending blunders by failing to resign Arturs Irbe, despite Irbe recording very respectable numbers of a 2.73 GAA, and a winning record of 14-11-6 on a horrible Canucks team. Irbe signed with Carolina and would have several more solid seasons, including a trip to the Cup finals. Burke decided to go with Garth Snow instead of Irbe.

On January 17, 1999 Burke pulled the trigger on the Bure trade sending to Florida RW Pavel Bure, D Bret Hedican, D Brad Ference and a 3rd round pick (Robert Fried a 6'3" 210 lb RW who just graduated from Harvard this season) and receiving in return D Ed Jovanovski, G Kevin Weekes, LW Dave Gagner, LW Mike Brown, and a 1st round pick in 2000 (Nathan Smith).

Recall some of Burkie's BS about that deal. Kevin Weekes was hailed by Burke as " The Goalie of the Future" (Burke trademark) but Weekes would not even be "The Goalie of a Full Season" (Wetcoaster trademark) as Burke would trade him shortly. In response to questions about why he would possibly want an aging (and apparently washed up) Dave Gagner Burke claimed that he absolutely insisted that Gagner be part of the deal and if he was not then it was deal breaker (my note - Gagner was not resigned for the next season). To use a favourite Burkism, Burkie must have been labouring under a drug-induced fantasy if Gagne was the deal breaker.

Mike Brown was hailed as the second coming of Bob Probert (although one assumes without the drug convictions) but would not make it as a Probert or even a plug ugly enforcer as he was an unsigned free agent this year and is a career minor leaguer at best. The first round draft choice in the deal would be used by Burke to draft Nathan Smith - and he is leading the NHL in... games not played.

While Bure is now out with what looks like career-ending knee injuries he did have some great years after leaving (led the NHL in goals) and Bret Hedican went to the Cup finals with Carolina and remains a very serviceable top four D-Man while Brad Ference has turned into that very rugged and mean crease clearing D-man with Phoenix that the Canucks now seem to lack. The Canucks do have Jovo left from the deal.

Oh yes, and recall that Burke said he would not hold Keenan accountable for the Canucks record until after the Bure trade was completed and Keenan had some time to work with the new assets. Burke was true to his word, two games later he fired Keenan and hired Marc Crawford (for those of you who missed it that is a sarcastic comment). BTW for those of you who forget since Crawford remained under contract to the Av's it cost Burke yet another second round draft pick (Hasn't he run out of them yet?) to be able to sign Crawford.

Burke's 1999 Draft selections were 2. LW Daniel Sedin, 3. C Henrik Sedin, 69. D Rene Vydareny, 129. LW Ryan Thorpe, 172. D Josh Reed, 189. G Kevin Swanson 218. Markus Kankaanpera, 271. D Darrell Hay.

Here is how the Sedin maneuvering actually went from the end of the 1998-99 season to the draft. The Canucks played Calgary on the last game of the season, the Flames won 5-4 . The next day, the Islanders won a game, which bumped the Canucks from 4th last, to the 3rd last team in the league. Chicago then went into the fourth overall pick slot, bumping New York to 5th. When the lottery came around, this gave the Canucks the third overall pick. Burke then traded D Bryan McCabe and the Canuck's first pick in the 2000 draft to Chicago for their fourth overall pick. This gave Brian Burke two picks, third and fourth overall. Burke then landed the first overall pick from Tampa Bay, and then flipped it to Atlanta for the second overall pick, and a third round pick in 2000. Atlanta made a promise with Brian Burke that they would pick only Patrik Stefan with their first overall selection.

During the pre-season both Weekes and Snow were hurting so the Canucks grabbed Manny Legace from Detroit on waivers but when Weekes and Snow recovered he was sent back to Detroit. Too bad Legace would never make it as an NHL goalie (more sarcasm).

The next up in the Brian Burke Vancouver goalie sweepstakes was ... Felix Potvin. Burke traded Bill Muckalt, Kevin Weekes (his "Goalie of the Future") and Dave Scatchard for G Felix Potvin, and two draft picks. "In Felix Potvin we have acquired a goaltender who I think is one of the better goaltenders in the NHL. When I first came to Vancouver, I expressed dissatisfaction with the state of affairs of our goaltenders,'' Burke said at the time of the trade. ''I repeatedly stressed that theme. We have been trying to upgrade at this position for some time, and I feel we have done that (with Felix Potvin).'' This would prove to be yet another drug-induced fantasy.

Burke's rationale for the Potvin trade was expressed as follows:
"I don't feel either one (Snow or Weekes) has done it. I'm tired of starting games down 1-0 and 2-0. I put up with it for as long as I could, I think I was patient with both of them. Now I've made a move that says 'I think we need a No. 1 goaltender.' "

Well Burkie was right to some extent - instead of starting down 1-0 or 2-0 with Potvin the Canucks would often start down 3-0.

In an attempt to make the trade look better to the fans, a novel approach was tried. Snow was usually given the starts against the elite teams and Potvin was started against the lower-ranked teams. This has to be one of the more bizarre uses of a "Number One" goalie in recent years. The moved backfired as Snow stood on his head and Potvin was at best ordinary.

Burke's next deal was with Lou Lamoriello and he got his pocket picked sending 2nd and 3rd round picks to the Devils for the eminently forgettable Vadim Sharifjanov.

Burke went back to Lou for his next trade sending Alex Mogilny to the Devils for Brendan Morrison and Denis Pederson. The best comment on this trade was contributed by Gary Mason of The Sun who joked in his column after the trade, "Haven't the Canucks learned anything about trading for players named Pederson?" (In reference to the infamous Cam Neely for Barry Pederson trade). Actually this may be the best trade of Burke's tenure but then I am big fan of Brendan Morrison so YMMV.

Crawford put together a Kid Line of Josh Holden, Peter Schaefer and Matt Cooke and they played extremely well down the stretch that year with Druken clocking in with 7 goals and 9 assists to almost sneaking into the play-offs.

Burke's 2000 draft selections were Nathan Smith, Thatcher Bell, Tim Branham, Pavel Duma, Brandon Reid, Nathan Barrett, Tim Smith (please, can someone PLEASE, make the NHL).

In the 2000-01 run-up the Burke did not exercise the team option to re-sign Messier and he went back to the NYR. Burke signed Scott LaChance as a free agent and Bob Essensa as the back-up goalie (who would "save" the season for the Canucks). Garth Snow was allowed to leave as free agent with nothing gained in return. Burke should have got rid of Potvin and kept Snow to team up with Essensa.

The Canucks home opener against the Av's proved out Burke's statement of why he got Potvin - he was tired of starting games down 1-0 or 2-0. In the Colorado game the first three shots taken by the Av's went past Potvin and the Canucks were down 3-0.

At the Christmas break Felix Potvin had a personal record of 9-12-3 while Bob Essensa was clearly outplaying him with a record of 8-2-1 but Brian Burke stood behind his anointed number one goaltender and Crawford continued to play him while Potvin was letting in soft goal after soft goal.

Finally after a horrible January by Potvin ( ranked #37 in the league) Burke finally would admit "We have a crisis with our goaltending that I have not successfully resolved." Talk about stating the obvious. Los Angeles traded for Potvin sending future considerations back to Vancouver.

On February 7th, 2001 Burke traded for Dan Cloutier from the Tampa Bay Lightning sending over Adrian Aucoin and a 2nd round draft choice (yet again - it became Denis Grot). Good thing Aucoin was washed up as a D-Man.

Burke's big time move that year at the draft deadline was acquiring D-man Drake Berehowsky from Phoenix to try to fill the hole left by Aucoin's departure (Aucoin was plus 13 at the time of his trade). It would cost Burke yet another second round pick.

The Canucks made the play-offs barely and were swept in four straight by the Av's. The first three games were very close as Essensa stood on his head until an injury forced him out of the series. In game four Cloutier would melt down and allow 3 goals in 38 seconds which was precursor of things to come in future play-offs for him.

Burke's drafts for 2001 were R.J. Umberger, Fedor Fedorov, Evgeny Gladskikh, Kevin Bieska, Jason King and Konstantin Mihailov.

Burke then made another one of his mind-numbingly bad goalie decisions. He let Bob Essensa (who had saved the last season by taking over from Potvin and put the Canucks in the play-offs the year before) go without any compensation back. His replacement was the perennial Vezina trophy candidate Martin Brodeur (OOPS sorry that was Martin BROCHU). Was Burke in yet another drug-induced fantasy when he replaced Back-up Bob with this guy????? Did Burke think he was actually getting Brodeur??? Will Marc Crawford's hair ever move in a high wind???

Brochu was god-awful (no wins, a 4.17 GAA and a .856 save percentage - you know like Dan Cloutier play-off stats). He would be released about one month into the season and replaced with Peter Skudra.

Fortunately Burke's other off-season free agent signings were much better than Brochu as he signed the ever dangerous Herb Vasiljevs as well as Andre Savage (Yes folks I am being sarcastic yet again).

With the Canucks floundering yet again Burke pulled the trigger on a trade getting back Trevor Linden and a second round draft pick (Denis Grot) for a 2002 first round pick (Boyd Gordon) and a 2003 third round pick. As a real bonus the Canucks were only on the hook for 1/4 of Linden's $4 million salary as Montreal and Washington ate the rest. I rank this trade up there with the Mogilny for Morrison and Pederson trade.

Burke's next trade was less successful and left a hole that would be very hard to fill as Donald Brashear was traded to Philly for the enigmatic Jan Hlavc. Burke next traded for Trevor Letowski, prospect Tyler Bouck and a third round pick for Drake Berehowsky and Denis Pederson.

The #8 Canucks drew the #1 Red Wings and took a 2-0 series lead. Things were going fine until Cloutier fanned on the Nick Lidstrom longshot from near centre and that was all she wrote. However as the Canucks were going down in flames in the next four games a number of Burkisms were issued as Burkie fumed away:

"Todd Bertuzzi does not play for Detroit. It just looks like that because he's wearing two or three red sweaters all the time."

"I didn't know that tackling was an acceptable tactic. I didn't see it in the rule book."

"Sedin is not English for punch me and headlock me in a scrum."

"Our goalie is the goaltender on the ice who does not dive when he gets brushed."

"Detroit has 12 captains and assistants to speak to officials. We find that unusual. Most teams have two or three. It amazes me the number of players who are allowed to protest calls in Detroit uniforms."


Highly entertaining but not in the least helpful.

It did not help and the Canucks were gone in 6 games as Cloutier's post-season stats took a nosedive.

Burke's 2002 draft picks were D Kirill Koltsov, Denis Grot Brett Skinner, Lukas Mensator, John Laliberte, Rob McVicar, Marc-Andre Roy, Ilia Krikunov, Matt Violin, Thomas Nussli and Matt Gens. NHL prospects all. right??

In the off-season Burke traded failed first rounder Josh Holden to Toronto for Jeff Farkas (who was then traded several months later to Atlanta for Chris Herperger and Chris Neilson), Ryan Bonni went to the Leafs as well for futures and in a third deal with Toronto Tomas Mojzis was obtained for Brad Leeb. Free agents Tyler Moss, Jaroslav Obsut, John Craighead and Nolan Baumgartner were signed. Burke then exchanged the disgruntled Peter Schaefer with Ottawa for Sami Salo.

Burke refused to re-sign Andrew Cassels, who then signed with the Columbus Bluejackets, as did steady D-man Scott LaChance. However in typical Burke fashion he could not pass up the opportunity to take shots at the departing players. He would do the same thing the next year with Trent Klatt and Murray Baron. It is not one of his more endearing qualities. Burke decided to go with Henrik Sedin as the second line centre before he was ready rather than resign Cassels and it was a huge mistake as the Canucks never had a genuine No. 2 centre and shifted Trevor Linden during the season to try to fill that hole. Brendan Morrison was being double-shifted and played the power play and penalty kill and with the loss of Lindgren – by the Wild series he was worn out.

Losing Scott LaChance was big mistake IMHO as he and Jovanovski had great chemistry and Jovo had his best season ever paired with LaChance. LaChance was not flashy but he was a very solid stay at home defender who took the man and rarely gets caught out of position. He was able to cover well for Jovanovski when he took some of his more high-risk moves and worked better with Jovo than his replacement Marek Malik. This was bad move on Burke’s part and when the defense was crashing down around their ears in the Wild series, Scott LaChance could have been a stabilizing force on the blue line. This one rates up there as bad a move as some of Burke’s goalie blunders.

As the season got under way Burke traded Jan Hlvac and Harold Druken to Carolina for Marek Malik and Darren Langdon and signed Mats Lindgren as a free agent. Lindgren got into the line-up about a month into the season and the PK was immediately improved and it would be a strength until Lindgren went down with yet another back injury late in the season. At the trade deadline Burke would trade for Brad May from Phoenix for a conditional second or third round pick. May would make an immediate impact knocking out Keith Tchachuk with a heavy hit in his debut but would produce little else.

The Canucks lost out for first place by playing dreadful in their last few games. Down 3-1 to the Blues the Canucks came back. However when they were up 3-1 over the Wild the team played poorly and Cloutier turned in the worst stats of any starting goalie in the post-season cementing his reputation that he was good in the regular season but could not produce in the post-season. Crawford had lost confidence in back-up Peter Skudra and Alex Auld was called up to play a couple of games (sound familiar?) but the Wild closed out the series winning in Game 7 in Vancouver. Burke just cannot seem to get the No.1 and back-up goalie combination that will work.

Burke's 2003 draft picks were Ryan Kesler, Marc-Andre Bernier, Brandon Nolan, Ty Morris, Nicklas Danielsson, Chad Brownlee, Francois-Pierre Guenet, Sergei Topol, Nathan McIver and Matthew Hansen.

The off-season was marked by Burke's running media battles with free agents Trent Klatt and Murray Baron who had been two of the grittier "heart" performers over the last few years. This was capped off by Burke's famous "I'll drive him to the airport" crack about Klatt and his observation that Baron would not be able to sign with a team for anything near the money he was being offered by the Canucks. Burke was right, St. Louis signed Baron for more money than the Canucks were offering and with those two players gone much of the heart and soul of the team left town.

Both Klatt and Baron had excellent seasons with their new teams and Baron's presence was critical with the injuries to the Blues defensive corps. May who was signed for Klatt money did not have a good year and was pretty much a washout. Much of the criticism of the team has focused on the lack of grit and heart and both Baron and Klatt have those elements of the game in spades. In retrospect the failure to sign Klatt and Baron may have been two of the worst moves by Burke, outside of his inability to evaluate goalie talent.

Dan Cloutier, in move showing that team confidence might finally be waning, was tendered only a one-year contract and Johan Hedberg who had been to the Cup Finals with Pittsburgh was signed to back him up and push him as a starter. Unfortunately Hedberg would enter Marc Crawford’s goalie doghouse, where so many not named Cloutier had gone before.

The other big free agent signings were Mike Keane, Jiri Slegr and Magnus Arvedson. Just as Arvedson seemed to be rounding into form, he suffered a season-ending knee injury and retired. Keane played well in limited minutes and knew his role. Slegr was traded to Boston late in the year for future considerations and in retrospect he should have been kept as a depth defenseman which would have avoided the need to get Marc Bergevin at the deadline. So four of the major free agent signings for the 2003-04 season May, Hedberg, Slegr and Arvedson ultimately can be judged failures while Keane was a qualified success. Not a great average for a GM.

Bertuzzi was the focus at the beginning of the year when he finally signed his $6.8 million per year long-term contract and unfortunately at the end of the year when he sucker punched Steve Moore and was suspended indefinitely. Could Burke have done more to defuse the situation rather than appearing to pour gasoline on the fire as he did by continually grousing about the “cheap shot” by Moore? The NHL certainly thought so and hammered the Canucks management with a hefty fine. The whining and carping at the officials starts with Burke and runs down hill through Crawford and a number of players such as Bertuzzi - it was time to just shut up and let your play speak for itself IMHO. You would think Burke after spending time at league headquarters would have grasped that lesson but apparently not.

There was a lot of fun watching Wade Brookbank bounce around from Ottawa to Nashville to Vancouver to Ottawa to Florida and finally back to Vancouver. He must have made a fortune in waiver payments and accumulated a lot of frequent flyer points.

One of the more distracting soap operas was the RJ Umberger saga where the player asked for the going rate and was low-balled. This was a repeat of the Mattias Ohlund fiasco under Pat Quinn except this time Umberger would be an unrestricted free agent after the season and there would be no compensation due the Canucks or right to match – yet another wasted first round pick. Again it seemed to be a case as soon as Burke pokes his nose into negotiations instead of letting Dave Nonis handle them, they go south in heartbeat. That was the case with Cassels, LaChance, Klatt and Baron as well. In this case Burke did the usual - lied about what had gone on in negotiations and blamed the agent and player - agent Brian Lawton called his bluff and laid out what had really happened.

The whole thing made little sense as the player had the trump card of unrestricted free agent status and by waiting so late to move his rights, Burke had a massively devalued asset on his hands. Umberger’s rights would finally be traded to the Rangers at the trade deadline along with Martin Grenier for the rental of Martin Rucinsky for the late season and play-offs. Geoff Sanderson was re-acquired for a 2004 third round pick (I think Burke ran out of second rounders) and veteran Marc Bergevin was obtained at the deadline from Pittsburgh for a 2004 seventh round pick. Murray Baron or Jiri Slegr would have been nice insurance to have on board when Bryan Allan went down late in the year as Bergevin had lost just too much foot speed (not that he had much to begin with).

Two rookies, Kesler and King played well in spurts but both ended up back in the minors for more experience. Again Cloutier went down with injuries during the season that again raises questions as to his conditioning and durability and while he racked up the wins, his personal stats placed him in the lower half of the goalies in the league. When Cloutier was injured in the play-offs, Crawford turned to Alex Auld again rather than Hedberg who had been signed earlier with much fanfare.

The goalie Wheel of Fortune goes round and round for Burke but it always seems to stop short of the jackpot. I think I’ll buy a vowel, Brian.

In spite of his own PR and claims to the contrary, Burke has had little to do with the financial management of the team and its profitability outside of direct hockey operations as that was the sole province of Chief Operating Officer Dave Cobb. Cobb implemented the Pay-Per-View packages, negotiated the lottery scheme, set up the business roundtable and generally handled all media, sponsorship and league matters not directly related to hockey operations. He was also the alternate League Governor and took the leading role with the Board of Governors. Cobb has made a pile of money for Orca Bay playing the currency market and has used the rising Canadian dollar as hedge. Everyone in the organization who is not in the hockey operations department reports to him and he in turn reports not to President Brian Burke but rather Stan McCammon, Burke’s boss. Is it any wonder that Dave Cobb was the insider’s pick as the new President of the team when Burkie was let go? However Dave would get a once in a lifetime offer from the Vancouver Olympic Committee and he moved on leaving a huge hole in the financial end of the team.

You can evaluate Burke’s draft and trade record for yourself. My take is outside of his poor showing with goalies, his trades have been pretty hit and miss and his draft record is average (or below average at best IMHO). He has managed to alienate some pretty good hockey players who have given great efforts for the Canucks in the past and he has failed to re-sign free agents who could have helped with the missing ingredient of heart and emotion which many see lacking in the current edition of the team. He has re-signed core players to reasonable contracts and that is to his credit.

Burke also has apparently ruffled the feathers of a number of fellow GM’s with his constant comments about their abilities as compared to his own. He proclaims that other GM's are an embarrassment the way they throw around money and that if they had to make do with HIS resources they would be in big trouble - how long can you keep calling your fellow GM's idiots before they decide they would rather deal with ABB (Anybody But Burke)? Here is a typical Burke comment:

"I have never been more embarrassed to work in the NHL as I was on July 1st and 2nd [2001]. I know we can't support the salaries. I know that some of the teams who have spent that money are doing it without the financial capability to pay the money. I'm running my business like a business. I'm going head-to-head with people who are crazy, as far as I'm concerned." -Vancouver Canucks GM Brian Burke, July 2001

I know if I was a GM of another team I would be rushing out to do Burke a favour. (NOTE - that is sarcasm)

It was instructive to hear Dave Nonis complain on the radio about the time of the trade deadline in Burke's last year that teams rejected a number of Vancouver deals in favour of other teams’ packages that Nonis characterized as offering less than the Canucks deals. WHY???? - Perhaps Burkie’s act has worn thin not only with Canuck ownership but also with his fellow GM’s?

IMHO with Burke gone it was not near as big a loss as some would have you believe, (including Brian Burke himself) and his PR shill (oops sorry independent journalist) Gary Mason then of the Vancouver Sun.

Burke is entertaining but he is not effective. Given his draft record maybe it is best that he did trade his picks.

So now you know.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 05:02 PM
  #417
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gberg View Post
I don't think you understood what I said. Burke had an agreement with Sweatt's agent over a deal -BEFORE- a trade occurred. So you could pretty much understand Burke's frustration when they didn't take his offer after the trade.

Now...granted, as one poster mentioned, who knows if he's telling the truth. It could just be spiteful revenge.
Only if you choose to believe Burke over agent Scott Norton and Billy Sweatt - I do not given Burke being a stranger to the truth on so many past occasions - See Umberger, RJ.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 05:03 PM
  #418
Bgav
We Stylin'
 
Bgav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,144
vCash: 1752
owned

Bgav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 05:32 PM
  #419
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 701 View Post
Blowing off Umberger, our decent first-round pick, seems marginally even worse to me.

I mean, a bad pick is bad, but losing a good pick because of your own bad personality issues is even badder.
The Sweatty Affaire in TO has all the hallmarks of the RJ Umberger debacle. We in Vancouver have seen that movie starring the testosterone over-charged Brian Burke before.

Umberger Redux

Here is an in-depth look at the Umberger saga and how Burkie tried to re-write history (yet again). Umberger and Lawton both were very clear on numerous occasions they wanted to get a deal done in Vancouver. Umberger did not leave school to sit out the year.

Once Burkie embarked on his testosterone fueled path leading to pyhrric victory he pretty much forced Umberger to go UFA - at least he had that option. That is what makes the whole episode so mind-boggling. if you decide to go toe to toe with a draftee, why pick one of the very rare ones who have the UFA card to play?

Burkie threw up so much dust and dirt to try to obscure what really happned with Umberger it takes a little research and some detail to help people sort it all out. Also since research and writing is integral to what I do, it is pretty simple for me.

At least I have access to newspaper archives and I can show what actually happened as opposed to Burkie's attempt to re-write history and bury it in bafflegab and ex post facto rationalizations. Yet another disturbing episode from the Brian Burke Reign of Error in Vancouver.

Although Nonis handled many of the contract negotiations, this one was 100% pure unadulterated Burkie - all Burkie, all the time. If he had left it in Nonis' hands IMHO the signing would have been done. Burke did not like Brian Lawton and used that dislike to take shots at both Lawton and Umberger. When you let your emotions get in the way of doing business you are just asking for trouble.

Let's take a look at what happened:

Umberger was asking for exactly what other players drafted before and after him received.

It was typical Burke - run down the player and attack the agent instead of doing a deal. Umberger was only asking for what other drafts in his round received - $1.13 million.

We know the offer from the Canucks because Umberger and Brian Lawton, Umberger's agent released the contract proposal after become frustrated with Burkie's misrepresentations on the offer. The offer was $625,000, $650,000 and $675,000 base salaries with a $700,000 signing bonus over three years. It has been reported in various media in the past. That is a lowball offer compared to all the other picks.

Then compare it to other teams who signed their first round picks that year for the rookie maximum. In Umberger's draft year:

-the #7 pick was by Montreal - Mike Komisarek was signed for $1.13 million
-the #9 pick was by Chicago - Tuomo Ruutu was signed for $1.13 million
-the # 12 pick was by Nashville - Dan Hamhuis was signed for 1.13 million
-the # 13 pick was by Edmonton - Ales Hemsky was signed for $1.13 million
-the #14 pick was by Calgary - Chuck Kobasew was signed for $1.13 million
-the # 16 pick was by Vancouver - RJ Umberger signed by Philadelphia for $1.13 million
-the #17 pick was by Toronto - Carlo Colaiacovo was signed for $1.13 million
-the #19 pick was by Boston - Shaone Morrisonn was signed for $1.13 million

ARE YOU BEGINNING TO SEE A PATTERN HERE? and why Umberger and his agent saw little problem in getting the rookie maximum on the open market?

Also why they would be insulted by the offer from Burke?

Take a look at the #19 pick in the SECOND round of 2001 (#49) overall:
Mike Cammalleri signed by LA for $1.075 million which was the maximum for 2000 rookies. LA has a salary structure which is very close to the Canucks. This is common, with second round picks signing for the previous years rookie maximum in the top 2/3's of the second round.

Burke got himself in a pi$$ing match as he so often does and he would not back down. He began to believe his own press clippings.

Burkie also went on and on about Umberger's lack of heart, lack of physical play, inability to play defense, poor work ethic, etc. This was the exact opposite of what he had said earlier about Umberger.

This was vintage Burke and we have seen this movie played numerous times with Trent Klatt, Murray Baron, Kevin Weekes, Andrew Cassels, Peter Schaefer and so on.

As usual the clueless in Vancouver believed it without looking for themselves.

The problem was that Umberger unlike 99.9% of the draftees had an option. If he was not signed within 2 years then he became a unrestricted free agent rather than his rights just going back into the draft. He then could peddle his services to the highest bidder which is precisely what he did. He and his agent used the system to do what was best for Umberger.

Burkie OTOH squandered a valuable asset.

Burke made stupid decision to go to the mat with a player who had the leverage in the negotiations.

And people still wonder why Burkie was handed his walking papers in Vancouver.

A totally screwed up set of negotiations with Umberger and the loss of a very valuable asset with virtually nothing to show for it. Umberger would be the big tough centre with an offensive upside that the Canucks need if he had stayed in Vancouver.

Burke should have signed him and stuck him in the AHL (or traded him early on when he had some value). And he would not have been earning his NHL salary since all rookie pacts are required to be two way. As it worked out he would have been in the AHL for the year due to the NHL lockout which everyone saw coming except it seems Brian Burke.

All this Kesler/Umberger feud garbage was Burkie in full damage control mode. Just like the goalie graveyard fable to cover off his inability to assess goaltender talent. Check back in the newspapers of the time and it was just Burkie trying to show Lawton and Umberger who was boss. The joke was on Burkie since Umberger had the UFA hammer.

It was like Burkie's claim that Umberger was soft, had no grit, would not play physical. Which of course only became an issue in Burkie's fevered imagination when the low-ball offer was rejected. Here is how Umberger was talked about before the impasse.

More Burkie Bafflegab. Check out what was actually said until Burkie got in a battle with Umberger and Lawton.

If you listened to the Canucks until they started contract negotiations, Umberger was tough, physical hard-nosed specimen who had sculpted his body through hard weight training. At least those were the reports when Umberger was drafted and Canucks scout, Ron Delorme, thought he was body builder not a hockey player.

Soft play became a mantra for Burkie in the contract spat along with Umberger could not play defense, he would never be a two way player, he could not kill penalties, he was not physically tough, etc. Well Umberger put paid to all that BS and blarney in his first pro season with the Phantoms and has followed it up playing hardnosed hockey with the Flyers this season.

How about we let the "Mouth that Roared" speak for himself and what he had to say about Umberger at the time he drafted him and before he got in pissing match and tried to lowball Umberger:

Umberger dominated at every level. He left home at 16 to attend the USA Hockey National Development Program at Ann Arbour, Mich., and led the under-18 national team in scoring. Umberger was the Central Collegiate Hockey Association's rookie of the year last season with 68 points (33-35) in 57 games. He also played for the U.S. at the 2001 world junior tourney and, according to Canucks general manager Brian Burke, was a no-brainer selection Saturday.

"We're ecstatic," said Burke of Umberger, who was ranked 14th overall. "We hoped this is a kid who dropped down to us (in draft order) and I hope it's because 15 teams made a mistake.

"We project him as a centre but he's got the style to play on the wall if that's what happens down the road. He has exceptional skating ability and likes to dish out physical punishment. He has the work ethic, intensity and all the intangibles."

Ron Delorme, the Canucks vice-president of amateur scouting, said Umberger first caught the club's eye a year ago in a European tourney. Vancouver saw a young Trevor Linden in the making and loved his maturity in pre-draft interviews.

"He's a power forward in the corners who earns his spot in front of the net and, not being a fancy player, he has to be capable of making plays," said Delorme, who was so enamoured with Umberger he asked for another interview Friday.

Umberger is also one of the best-conditioned prospects.


No work ethic, no intensity, not physical, won't go to the corners - right just as you said all along Burkie, right???

Or how about this report - Burkie would later claim the Umberger did not have the strength and upper body development to play effectively in the NHL.

This is a kid who spent hour after hour in the weight room, working on his strength and conditioning, while his friends were going to movies and school dances.

"He was in the weight room every night doing all of the hard lifts until he was puking, crawling out of the gym and having trouble driving home because he was so fatigued," says Scott Umberger, his cousin and workout partner.

When Ron Delorme, Vancouver's head scout, saw Umberger take off his shirt to get his measurements taken at the recent scouting combine in Toronto he thought the kid was a bodybuilder he was so sculpted.

"For a player his size, he has exceptional skating ability," said Burke. "He likes to hit. He isn't afraid at all and likes to dish out physical punishment."


Really Brian????

Well maybe Umberger had a bad year in college play in 2002-03 , yeah that must be it, he regressed just before he sought his first pro contract.
Now, Canucks first-round draft choice R.J. Umberger hopes to match that accomplishment. Umberger, 20, a junior centre with Ohio State University, has been projected by USA Today as one of nine favourites for the annual honour, first awarded in 1981. He has 25 goals and 27 assists for the 15th-ranked Buckeyes, who open championship tournament play on March 14-15. The 6-foot-2, 202- pound Pittsburgh native was the 16th overall selection in the 2001 NHL entry draft.

So he did not have a bad year at all in fact he had a great year.

And here is how the Burkie screw-up began:
"I'd definitely rather be down there playing, there's no doubt about that," Umberger said.

Here was Burkie's supposed "rationale":
Quote:
Burke believes by standing firm and allowing the 16th overall selection in the 2001 entry draft to become an unrestricted free agent on June 1 -- as long as Umberger doesn't play this season -- it will send the right message to future Canuck draft picks.

"For me to trade him or give him whatever he wants, it will be the last time Vancouver signs a first-round pick," Burke said Tuesday. "I'm perfectly prepared to allow this kid to go. I met with R.J. at training camp and I told him: 'Just so you know, if we start down this road I want it clear that I will let you become unrestricted.' "

"But if he doesn't sign, he doesn't sign. I go days and weeks without thinking about R.J. Umberger."
Now that makes a lot of sense (NOT). To use a favourie Burkie put-down - what drugs was Burke on? Everyone (except maybe Burkie?) knew the Van Ryn college loophole was being closed so how was this going to set a precedent and "teach" other draft picks?

And here is what Burkie was now feeding his pet reporters about Umberger whe he decided to get muley:
Quote:
Umberger's game has been critiqued as one-dimensional and inconsistent even though he had 53 points (26-27) in 43 NCAA games with the Buckeyes last season.
Since when Burkie????

I advocated when the whole mess started that Burke should trade Umberger if he was not going to sign him. If you recall Burke vowed repeatedly that he would NEVER trade Umberger and that he could sit until he became a free agent. Incredibly stupid, but hey this is Burkie after all.

I posted several times in the past during this soap opera that by holding onto him to such a late date Umberger had virtually no value. Umberger was little more than throw-in in the trade for Martin Rucinsky.

One of the advantages of having access to historical newspaper archives I can go back and find what Burkie actually said at the time rather than engaging in revisionist history as seemed to be Burkie's schtick.

Since turning pro Umberger has played whatever role he has been asked. Offensive centre/wing, shutdown centre, powerplay and PK.

It was never an either/or choice - both Kesler and Umberger should have been long time Canucks.

Right now the Canucks would have their Number 2 (or maybe 1A) centre in Umberger and the shutdown guy in Kesler. Big physical centre who is defensively responsible with good offensive upside... definitely no need for that sort of player on the Canucks they have surplus of them in the system, correct?

And yet more Burke bafflegab and swamp gas.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 05:49 PM
  #420
Gutchecktime
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,208
vCash: 500
Holy crap. I don't even think Islanders fans would give that long of a rant for Milbury.

Gutchecktime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 05:50 PM
  #421
DanyHeatleyfnAllstar
French Coach!
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Calgry
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,208
vCash: 500
Tell us how you really feel, Wet.

DanyHeatleyfnAllstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 05:51 PM
  #422
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
[QUOTE=Gberg;27587811]
Quote:
Burke had an agreement with Sweatt's agent over a deal -BEFORE- a trade occurred.
And you know this how?

  Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 05:54 PM
  #423
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote from Sweatt's agent at the time the Chi-Tor deal went down...

"This trade took us completely by surprise,” said Sweatt’s Chicago-based agent Scott Norton."

"We had not thought a contract could be worked out with Chicago before this happened. I will say the Leafs have made a generous offer, but on the other hand, free agency is just a month away and that’s very (tempting).”

Keep in mind this is in the moment the trade is happening - this in no way shape or form resembles an agent talking like he has an "agreement" or "understanding" with the acquiring team. It also quite clearly states the offer came AFTER the trade happened.

  Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 06:14 PM
  #424
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirokov View Post
Tell us how you really feel, Wet.
I thought I was clear...

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2010, 06:14 PM
  #425
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Quote from Sweatt's agent at the time the Chi-Tor deal went down...

"This trade took us completely by surprise,” said Sweatt’s Chicago-based agent Scott Norton."

"We had not thought a contract could be worked out with Chicago before this happened. I will say the Leafs have made a generous offer, but on the other hand, free agency is just a month away and that’s very (tempting).”

Keep in mind this is in the moment the trade is happening - this in no way shape or form resembles an agent talking like he has an "agreement" or "understanding" with the acquiring team. It also quite clearly states the offer came AFTER the trade happened.
Just Burkie re-writing history yet again.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.