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Old
08-30-2010, 01:55 PM
  #51
pelts35.com
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
If we'll make playoffs and if we'll make a move for starting goaltender at the dead line.. I am fine with anyone in the net during regullar season.
After all, they only went to the Stanley Cup finals with Leighton and Boucher in net.

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Old
08-30-2010, 02:02 PM
  #52
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We want Ellis.














Don't we?

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Old
08-30-2010, 02:05 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
After all, they only went to the Stanley Cup finals with Leighton and Boucher in net.
You are so right! Lets take is a step further. Now, can you imagine what would we do with a real goalie?

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08-30-2010, 02:17 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
You are so right! Lets take is a step further. Now, can you imagine what would we do with a real goalie?
It was Leighton's fault alone that they lost in the finals? Funny I remember some top line forwards that couldn't sniff the net against the Hawks too. There is enough blame to go around for losing the finals.

In the world with a salary cap you have two options

1. Pay for a top tier goalie and a lesser roster or
2. Stack your roster and get by with a lesser goalie

You cannot have both.

Besides, how is Vancouver doing with top tier goalie Roberto Luongo? Buffalo with Ryan Miller? Rangers with Henrik Lundqvist? Leighton has played in more Stanley Cup finals game then all 3 of those combined.

So, for me, I'll roll the dice with the lesser goalie and the stacked roster instead of the perennial all-stars who can't take their team to the finals on their backs (let alone win the cup).

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Old
08-30-2010, 02:19 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
From CSN (July 1, 2010)...

Sources: Flyers to Make an Offer to Goalie Ellis


Link
And I remember Ellis saying something, when he signed with Tampa, about having an offer from the Flyers too.

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Old
08-30-2010, 02:25 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
It was Leighton's fault alone that they lost in the finals? Funny I remember some top line forwards that couldn't sniff the net against the Hawks too. There is enough blame to go around for losing the finals.

In the world with a salary cap you have two options

1. Pay for a top tier goalie and a lesser roster or
2. Stack your roster and get by with a lesser goalie

You cannot have both.

Besides, how is Vancouver doing with top tier goalie Roberto Luongo? Buffalo with Ryan Miller? Rangers with Henrik Lundqvist? Leighton has played in more Stanley Cup finals game then all 3 of those combined.
Of course it was not his fault. But let me ask you somehting..... Was he outplayed in final round? Or do you want to talk about him and how great he was against 3 decent scoring chances a game Habs ?

In 2004 we had solid number 1 Esche. In 2009 we had "not his fault" Leighton.

We are arguing about mediocre goaltending in the end of almost every season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Besides, how is Vancouver doing with top tier goalie Roberto Luongo? Buffalo with Ryan Miller? Rangers with Henrik Lundqvist? Leighton has played in more Stanley Cup finals game then all 3 of those combined.
I have a feeling that you are trying to tell me something?


Last edited by Kaktus*: 08-30-2010 at 02:32 PM.
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Old
08-30-2010, 02:30 PM
  #57
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My thoughts on Leighton are that if he pulled a Ricky Williams and quit hockey to go Smoke weed for 2 years I would happy dance like you wouldn't believe. I would ok with him pulling a Shaun (sp) Andrews or Barrett Robbins also.

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Old
08-30-2010, 02:41 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
In the world with a salary cap you have two options

1. Pay for a top tier goalie and a lesser roster or
2. Stack your roster and get by with a lesser goalie

You cannot have both.

Besides, how is Vancouver doing with top tier goalie Roberto Luongo? Buffalo with Ryan Miller? Rangers with Henrik Lundqvist? Leighton has played in more Stanley Cup finals game then all 3 of those combined.

So, for me, I'll roll the dice with the lesser goalie and the stacked roster instead of the perennial all-stars who can't take their team to the finals on their backs (let alone win the cup).
That's exactly how I look at it too.

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Old
08-30-2010, 03:01 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Of course it was not his fault. But let me ask you somehting..... Was he outplayed in final round? Or do you want to talk about him and how great he was against 3 decent scoring chances a game Habs ?

In 2004 we had solid number 1 Esche. In 2009 we had "not his fault" Leighton.

We are arguing about mediocre goaltending in the end of almost every season.

I have a feeling that you are trying to tell me something?
Was he outplayed? I'd hardly call Niemi's play outstanding and I can't even say that if the goalies were reversed that the Flyers would have won the Cup. Besides how outstanding could the Hawks have thought about Niemi's play given that they signed Marty Turco (how many Cups has he won BTW?).

As for trying to tell you something, all I'm saying is that stud goalies don't guarantee you a darn thing. Case in point the goalies that I mentioned. ZERO Stanley Cup appearances among them.

Frankly the personal attacks on Leighton are downright disgusting. If you don't like the guy, fine. But to wish ill on someone you've never met before or comparing him to a disease is just wrong. And Philly fans wonder why they have such a bad reputation in the national media.

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Old
08-30-2010, 03:09 PM
  #60
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they don't need a superstar goalie to win a cup, but they need somebody better and more reliable than leighton.

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Old
08-30-2010, 03:33 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Was he outplayed? I'd hardly call Niemi's play outstanding and I can't even say that if the goalies were reversed that the Flyers would have won the Cup. Besides how outstanding could the Hawks have thought about Niemi's play given that they signed Marty Turco (how many Cups has he won BTW?).

As for trying to tell you something, all I'm saying is that stud goalies don't guarantee you a darn thing. Case in point the goalies that I mentioned. ZERO Stanley Cup appearances among them. Was Laighton outplayed in finals?

Frankly the personal attacks on Leighton are downright disgusting. If you don't like the guy, fine. But to wish ill on someone you've never met before or comparing him to a disease is just wrong. And Philly fans wonder why they have such a bad reputation in the national media.
Was he outplayed? I did not ask if Niemi was outstanding he was not, no one claimed he was. Just answer the question.

Hawks went with Turco because they had some major problems with cap room not because they did not like Niemi.

Who is personally attacking Leighton? Am I attacking hm because I do not believe Flyers win SC with him in the net? I call it like I see it. If thats what you call personal attacks it's not. I bet 9 out of 10 objective fans will say the same thing. Flyers have no real goaltending. The fact that our GM traded for Nabbys rights, made an offer to Truco, looked at Ellis and probably others should tell people how ****ed up our goalie situation is.

**** media reputation. How about the real reputation of not having real goalkeeper for the past decade.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 08-30-2010 at 03:41 PM.
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Old
08-30-2010, 03:38 PM
  #62
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Thanks for finding that link Opus. At least Homer tried to get Ellis. He is the guy I wanted out of that bunch. Too bad they couldn't work something out. I would have really liked a Ellis Leighton combo.

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Old
08-30-2010, 10:53 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
He shouldn't be our starter, I didn't want him to be our starter, and I don't want him to be our starter. But, I'm willing to give him a chance to prove himself against capable offenses in the hope that he has improved his rebound control and 5-hole in the offseason. If he has progressed like he did last year under Reese, then hopefully he won't be completely terrible. The new and improved defense can hopefully cover for him better.
I say bottom line: he's a professional goaltender in the NHL. Professional athletes tend to work on improving all the time because, well.. they are pros. They get paid to play the same game that most of us pay 10 bucks a night to go play pickups at.

We won't know how poopie or great he is until he starts throwing some stats in.

We won't be able to judge him after game 1, even if we get beat. 1 game =/= everything.

people need to stop acting like Leighton imposed upon us and DID THIS to the team. He was made a starter, he didn't come in and do anything other than was asked of him by our GM.

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Old
08-30-2010, 11:02 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
That's exactly how I look at it too.
same here. goalie makes the 1st save, keeps them in the game. defense picks up rebounds, offense scores.

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Old
08-31-2010, 12:24 AM
  #65
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I don't like some of the insinuation going around that the goalie's job isn't to prevent rebounds.

Believe me, it is. A goalie with good rebound control can really minimize the opponents' scoring chances and makes the game a lot easier for his defense. Less rebounds = less work for everyone.

Yes, the first save is essential, but let's not act like kicking all of your rebounds straight into the slot is okay by any means. It doesn't matter if the defense is clearing them out most of the time - it's still something Leighton absolutely has to work on improving.

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08-31-2010, 01:22 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I don't like some of the insinuation going around that the goalie's job isn't to prevent rebounds.

Believe me, it is. A goalie with good rebound control can really minimize the opponents' scoring chances and makes the game a lot easier for his defense. Less rebounds = less work for everyone.

Yes, the first save is essential, but let's not act like kicking all of your rebounds straight into the slot is okay by any means. It doesn't matter if the defense is clearing them out most of the time - it's still something Leighton absolutely has to work on improving.
But with our poor face off record we probably have a better percentage chance of our men getting to the rebound then we do of controlling the puck at face off. Either way we look at this it comes down to GAA and Save Percentage in conjuncture with Win loss Ratio through consistency of 2 or lower allowed goals per game.
Fact: Ryan Miller had twice as many wins as losses=Great
Leighton had triple the wins to losses=Wow Super Great
He can let up all the rebounds he wants, it's the goals we don't want him to let up.

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Old
08-31-2010, 03:48 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by IceHot View Post
But with our poor face off record we probably have a better percentage chance of our men getting to the rebound then we do of controlling the puck at face off. Either way we look at this it comes down to GAA and Save Percentage in conjuncture with Win loss Ratio through consistency of 2 or lower allowed goals per game.
Fact: Ryan Miller had twice as many wins as losses=Great
Leighton had triple the wins to losses=Wow Super Great
He can let up all the rebounds he wants, it's the goals we don't want him to let up.
Michael Leighton (34W-40L-10)
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2804

Ryan Miller (187W-104L-33)
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2637

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08-31-2010, 08:10 AM
  #68
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so now rebound control isnt important, and it's entirely the team's problem? people are really bending over backwards to make leighton seem like a real starting goalie.

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Old
08-31-2010, 08:10 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
Michael Leighton (34W-40L-10)
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2804

Ryan Miller (187W-104L-33)
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2637
OK lets compare last year instead of an entire NHL career here:

Michael Leighton (27GP 1449Mins 16w 5L 2otl 60GA)

Ryan Miller (69GP 4047Mins 41w 18L 8otl 150GA)


OK so just dealing with strictly stats and removing the human factor, lets project it out as if they played all 82 games in a regular season:

using the formula: result = (stat*82)/GP (rounding hard stats to nearest integer, (wins, etc)
note: retaining the current season 2010 GAA respectively:

Michael Leighton (82GP, 4401Mins, 49w 15L 6otl 182GA) @ 9.18GAA

Ryan Miller (82GP, 4809Mins, 49w 18L 10otl 178GA) @ 9.29GAA


Statistically, they are pretty close. One has more exp over the other in actual games played though. But if they both played the entire season with the current year end GAA, other than the human factor... that's the results above. So many people start throwing out 'stats' as a hard reason for love/hate and comparison without using the human factor and actual experience. On paper, leighton DOES look like a starter, at least in the eyes of stats only.

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Old
08-31-2010, 08:19 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Soda Popinski View Post
OK lets compare last year instead of an entire NHL career here:

Michael Leighton (27GP 1449Mins 16w 5L 2otl 60GA)

Ryan Miller (69GP 4047Mins 41w 18L 8otl 150GA)


OK so just dealing with strictly stats and removing the human factor, lets project it out as if they played all 82 games in a regular season:

using the formula: result = (stat*82)/GP (rounding hard stats to nearest integer, (wins, etc)
note: retaining the current season 2010 GAA respectively:

Michael Leighton (82GP, 4401Mins, 49w 15L 6otl 182GA) @ 9.18GAA

Ryan Miller (82GP, 4809Mins, 49w 18L 10otl 178GA) @ 9.29GAA


Statistically, they are pretty close. One has more exp over the other in actual games played though. But if they both played the entire season with the current year end GAA, other than the human factor... that's the results above. So many people start throwing out 'stats' as a hard reason for love/hate and comparison without using the human factor and actual experience. On paper, leighton DOES look like a starter, at least in the eyes of stats only.
You forgot the biggest similarity. In the biggest game of the year for both goalies, they let a crappy goal go through them from a bad angle in overtime....

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Old
08-31-2010, 08:30 AM
  #71
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You forgot the biggest similarity. In the biggest game of the year for both goalies, they let a crappy goal go through them from a bad angle in overtime....
well played my friend......well played.

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08-31-2010, 09:03 AM
  #72
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Wow. People are actually arguing that rebounds shouldn't be the responsibility of the goalie and comparing Michael Leighton to Ryan Miller.

Some of you guys are just flat-out ridiculous.

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08-31-2010, 09:11 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Wow. People are actually arguing that rebounds shouldn't be the responsibility of the goalie and comparing Michael Leighton to Ryan Miller.

Some of you guys are just flat-out ridiculous.
borrowing their logic:

"its not shelley's fault if he doesnt score as many goals as gagne, it's the team's fault for not setting him up well enough."

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Old
08-31-2010, 10:01 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Wow. People are actually arguing that rebounds shouldn't be the responsibility of the goalie and comparing Michael Leighton to Ryan Miller.

Some of you guys are just flat-out ridiculous.
Seriously.

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Old
08-31-2010, 12:12 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Some of you guys are just flat-out ridiculous.
Here's what I find ridiculous:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soda Popinski
Michael Leighton (82GP, 4401Mins, 49w 15L 6otl 182GA) @ 9.18GAA

Ryan Miller (82GP, 4809Mins, 49w 18L 10otl 178GA) @ 9.29GAA

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