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Bjugstad vs. Nelson vs. Lee

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Old
08-30-2010, 09:14 PM
  #26
MN_Gopher
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Originally Posted by ndgolden View Post
I have to laugh at the two MN locals taking shots at Lee. Lets compare all three Seniors year.

Lee's Senior year in HS alone as compared to Nelson's and Bjugstad' clearly outclasses them by a distant mile. Lee' Sr year in HS while playing football games on Friday nights led the Bauer NIT tournament in scoring, was the Schwanns Cup tournament scoring leader, was runner-up in Scoring for the year in AA and led the State Tournament in scoring with 9 pts. Did Bjugstad even register a point in last years state tournament???? In fact Lee's Sr. Year when he played against Bjugstad lee registered 7pts to Bjugstad's 0pts.

You two make him out to be some big kid on skates, with no skill and brains. I'll take the QB gatorade player of the year, and his raw hockey talent any day. My prediction Lee will be a 2nd line Center for ND this year and the point production and even more importantly his +- will be much higher than Nelson and Bjugstad.

Nelson, will struggle to play full time at North Dakota and both will probably endure loss of games due to injury playing at the D-1 level.

Perhaps Lee will have his day when ND plays the Gophs outdoors at TCF in 2011 Do your homework boys and get back to me with something that sticks. Interesting stat. 32 of Lee's 35 goals were even strength this year for GB, but probably because he's just a strong kid....and its just the USHL.
I am sure you are well aware how many points RJ Anderson scored in high school. RJ, a blue liner, out scored TJ Oshie as juniors. How well did points go there? Forney, Hanowski, Festler, Gorowski any one? Look at what Pat White did in high school.Tore through the tournament. Single handly carried Grand Rapids. He tore up the USHL in a brief stint there as well. Do i even have to mention Dave Spehar's numbers? A hat trick average in the tourament.

None of them are locks. At one year removd from high school. Lee should have been playing D1 last year. Not USHL. Players like Swartz and Ambroz that had success in the USHL in the draft year and one year prior; I'd get more exited about their numbers.

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08-30-2010, 09:25 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
I am sure you are well aware how many points RJ Anderson scored in high school. RJ, a blue liner, out scored TJ Oshie as juniors. How well did points go there? Forney, Hanowski, Festler, Gorowski any one? Look at what Pat White did in high school.Tore through the tournament. Single handly carried Grand Rapids. He tore up the USHL in a brief stint there as well. Do i even have to mention Dave Spehar's numbers? A hat trick average in the tourament.

None of them are locks. At one year removd from high school. Lee should have been playing D1 last year. Not USHL. Players like Swartz and Ambroz that had success in the USHL in the draft year and one year prior; I'd get more exited about their numbers.
Its clear MN gopher fans hair raises up when anyone mentions a success by Anders Lee. As of today, none of the three have proven themselves ready for the NHL, or yet D-1 Hockey. Potential is just that. We will all see whose is equipped to handle the next level very soon. It will be very clear, and very quickly.

MN Goph, interesting you state Lee should have been playing D-1 last year, because you have made the same argument he needed to play a year in the USHL!!! Do you really think, the ice time Bjugstad and Nelson will log coming out of HS will compare to the Development a 80 game season Lee had last year coming out of HS? Perhaps that's the luxury a 6th round pick can make. Nelson was Drafted by Green Bay and do you really think he looked forward to replicating what lee did for the Gamblers last year as a 1st rounder? Not a chance.

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08-30-2010, 09:53 PM
  #28
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LOL. Poor Golden Domer is going to be disappointed.

I'd say when every Minnesotan has come in here and stated that Lee isn't near the level of Bjugstad and Nelson; it just might be the case. After all, many of us have followed their career paths for some time. But hey, you can have your opinion. I don't even see an argument for Lee over his other two prominent line mates at Edina (Budish and Everson). Trying an argument over Bjugstad and Nelson is laughable at best.

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08-30-2010, 10:00 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ndgolden View Post
Its clear MN gopher fans hair raises up when anyone mentions a success by Anders Lee. As of today, none of the three have proven themselves ready for the NHL, or yet D-1 Hockey. Potential is just that. We will all see whose is equipped to handle the next level very soon. It will be very clear, and very quickly.

MN Goph, interesting you state Lee should have been playing D-1 last year, because you have made the same argument he needed to play a year in the USHL!!! Do you really think, the ice time Bjugstad and Nelson will log coming out of HS will compare to the Development a 80 game season Lee had last year coming out of HS? Perhaps that's the luxury a 6th round pick can make. Nelson was Drafted by Green Bay and do you really think he looked forward to replicating what lee did for the Gamblers last year as a 1st rounder? Not a chance.
You miss the point. If he was to be taken seriously he should have been in D1. I, like many, think he is very raw. A physical monster. But i do not like his chances at the next level. A legit prospect should have been out of the USHL. I feel Lee needed the USHL becasue he is not there.

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08-30-2010, 10:12 PM
  #30
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Lee seriously should have been in D1 last year, it's one the first things I said about him when I saw him play with Goon^H^H^Hreen Bay for the first time.

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08-30-2010, 10:43 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
You miss the point. If he was to be taken seriously he should have been in D1. I, like many, think he is very raw. A physical monster. But i do not like his chances at the next level. A legit prospect should have been out of the USHL. I feel Lee needed the USHL becasue he is not there.
Did you actually proof what you typed before posting? What is it now, you just stated he should have played D-1 last year and now he needed the USHL because he is not there. Keep it to a six-pack and you'll sound a lot more coherent.

Here's my take on why he will have the success, as you said he is a physical monster. As you move up the food chain it also requires a greater degree of physical durability, Lee is far and away more equipped to handle D-1 Hockey and beyond than Bjugstad or Nelson, Bjugstad may be taller, but pops is thinner than Ticonderoga #2 pencil at best.

Staying healthy this season will be a challenge for both Nelson and Bjugstad. If Lee truly is out of his league when compared to these two, how idiotic you two MN clowns will seem when they complete their college debuts and Lee has outplayed both.

I will surely be here to remind you of your infinite hockey wisdom and scouting ability. Both you MN scouts touted the incredible skills of Danny Mattson as the next coming and last I checked, is still in the USHL another year. Do some homework first, talk to the people at Octogon about the recent Pro Camp Lee and Bjugstad were both at three weeks ago. You might actually begin to form an intelligent argument or better yet make one for Nelson and Bjugstad based on what they have actually done! What an idea!

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08-30-2010, 10:48 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by this providence View Post
LOL. Poor Golden Domer is going to be disappointed.

I'd say when every Minnesotan has come in here and stated that Lee isn't near the level of Bjugstad and Nelson; it just might be the case. After all, many of us have followed their career paths for some time. But hey, you can have your opinion. I don't even see an argument for Lee over his other two prominent line mates at Edina (Budish and Everson). Trying an argument over Bjugstad and Nelson is laughable at best.
Easy on the Nyquil St. Pauli boy, Must be a Cretin grad. I do like lee's chances at beating Everson's season total of 3pts of last year.......Like I said, make your case for what Nelson or Bjustad have done during the same period. That should not be so hard.... Bottom line, despite lack of hockey skill, Lee gets it done, season after season. Looking pretty will not win games for Mr. Nelson and Mr. Bjugstad.......

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08-30-2010, 11:14 PM
  #33
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Did you actually proof what you typed before posting? What is it now, you just stated he should have played D-1 last year and now he needed the USHL because he is not there. Keep it to a six-pack and you'll sound a lot more coherent.

Here's my take on why he will have the success, as you said he is a physical monster. As you move up the food chain it also requires a greater degree of physical durability, Lee is far and away more equipped to handle D-1 Hockey and beyond than Bjugstad or Nelson, Bjugstad may be taller, but pops is thinner than Ticonderoga #2 pencil at best.

Staying healthy this season will be a challenge for both Nelson and Bjugstad. If Lee truly is out of his league when compared to these two, how idiotic you two MN clowns will seem when they complete their college debuts and Lee has outplayed both.

I will surely be here to remind you of your infinite hockey wisdom and scouting ability. Both you MN scouts touted the incredible skills of Danny Mattson as the next coming and last I checked, is still in the USHL another year. Do some homework first, talk to the people at Octogon about the recent Pro Camp Lee and Bjugstad were both at three weeks ago. You might actually begin to form an intelligent argument or better yet make one for Nelson and Bjugstad based on what they have actually done! What an idea!
What can you tell us about this? Both attended the Wild camp last year...edit: http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/...las-backstrom/


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08-30-2010, 11:19 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by ndgolden View Post
Easy on the Nyquil St. Pauli boy, Must be a Cretin grad. I do like lee's chances at beating Everson's season total of 3pts of last year.......Like I said, make your case for what Nelson or Bjustad have done during the same period. That should not be so hard.... Bottom line, despite lack of hockey skill, Lee gets it done, season after season. Looking pretty will not win games for Mr. Nelson and Mr. Bjugstad.......
You were on the right track with a private school, though you over shot it by about an hour north. Close, though.

I don't know how many times it needs to be said; producing in the USHL as an over-ager in this day and age of the league isn't anything to get excited about. Not to mention producing at Edina, THE scoring powerhouse of Minnesota hockey since their inception. Let alone over the last decade. The Hornets scored before him, with him, and continued to lead the state after him. Something tells me Lee didn't make much difference to the team's success. More so was along for the ride.

As for comparing the two at Pro Camp. Sure, go back and talk to them about skating and puck skills and come back to us. Bjugstad absolutely puts Lee to shame in both of those areas. No one's denying that Bjugstad is currently rail thin. But again, how about we revisit that topic in two years time once the two close the age gap since Anders Lee currently has just days shy of two years over Bjugstad? Of coarse he's going to more physically developed. However, given Bjugstad's frame, he's got room to out match Lee in this area as well.

But hey, as a fan you can be excited about Lee all you wish. I'm sure he'll be a solid addition to your Notre Dame squad. But if you're expecting this kid to be an impact player; you better take a step back because you missed something along the way.

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08-31-2010, 12:04 AM
  #35
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Did you actually proof what you typed before posting? What is it now, you just stated he should have played D-1 last year and now he needed the USHL because he is not there. Keep it to a six-pack and you'll sound a lot more coherent.

Here's my take on why he will have the success, as you said he is a physical monster. As you move up the food chain it also requires a greater degree of physical durability, Lee is far and away more equipped to handle D-1 Hockey and beyond than Bjugstad or Nelson, Bjugstad may be taller, but pops is thinner than Ticonderoga #2 pencil at best.

Staying healthy this season will be a challenge for both Nelson and Bjugstad. If Lee truly is out of his league when compared to these two, how idiotic you two MN clowns will seem when they complete their college debuts and Lee has outplayed both.

I will surely be here to remind you of your infinite hockey wisdom and scouting ability. Both you MN scouts touted the incredible skills of Danny Mattson as the next coming and last I checked, is still in the USHL another year. Do some homework first, talk to the people at Octogon about the recent Pro Camp Lee and Bjugstad were both at three weeks ago. You might actually begin to form an intelligent argument or better yet make one for Nelson and Bjugstad based on what they have actually done! What an idea!
Wow. You have no idea what i was saying. I will not even try to simplify it for you. Its OK. I am sure you tried your best.

When did i ever say anything about Mattson? Ever?

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08-31-2010, 12:23 AM
  #36
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You were on the right track with a private school, though you over shot it by about an hour north. Close, though.

I don't know how many times it needs to be said; producing in the USHL as an over-ager in this day and age of the league isn't anything to get excited about. Not to mention producing at Edina, THE scoring powerhouse of Minnesota hockey since their inception. Let alone over the last decade. The Hornets scored before him, with him, and continued to lead the state after him. Something tells me Lee didn't make much difference to the team's success. More so was along for the ride.

As for comparing the two at Pro Camp. Sure, go back and talk to them about skating and puck skills and come back to us. Bjugstad absolutely puts Lee to shame in both of those areas. No one's denying that Bjugstad is currently rail thin. But again, how about we revisit that topic in two years time once the two close the age gap since Anders Lee currently has just days shy of two years over Bjugstad? Of coarse he's going to more physically developed. However, given Bjugstad's frame, he's got room to out match Lee in this area as well.

But hey, as a fan you can be excited about Lee all you wish. I'm sure he'll be a solid addition to your Notre Dame squad. But if you're expecting this kid to be an impact player; you better take a step back because you missed something along the way.
Interesting take on Lee's role at Edina, without his game tying penalty shot goal, and OT winner at the Section Championships, Edina does not go to state his Jr. yr. That same year he was the Section player MVP leading all play-off scorers. In his Sr. year at Edina despite ALL of the scoring powerhouse players from Edina's storied history, Lee set Edina's all-time scoring record for most points in a season, but I understand your point that it meant very little to their success and he was just along for the ride. In fact you could easily argue Edina would not have gone to state both his jr. and sr. year had he not returned. What a tool you are. Keep making these brilliant points as your cred is on the rise!

Only snow drifts like you would rate hockey players on based on their ability to circle a cone while in practice. I am still trying to figure out how despite this inherent superior skill with Mr. Bjugstad he could not register a point at this years state HS tournament playing against often younger HS players, and skating every other shift.

I always love the argument that every kid can put on 40 pounds of muscle, again perhaps a class in human phyisology would help in understanding how genitics play a role in how we physically end up. Perhaps your program for Mr. Bjugstad does not involve a urine test.

As I have said before, none of these three have done squat todate in my book, but it is interesting your short hairs are really in your face on this one which I find very amusing. I will choose at this point to simply sit back and let them prove whose headed in the right direction. Any reason you don't simply make a case based on results for either of your superior choices? "Tools of Providence"

Facts don't lie, problem is sometimes, liars can figure.

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08-31-2010, 01:14 AM
  #37
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Interesting thought... You may be on to something. Jordan Schroeder's best year in HS was with Anders Lee at LW at St. Thomas. In fact that was the year St. Thomas won the State Championship when Lee registered three points in the Championship game, 5 for the tournament while Schroeder had two for the entire tournament.....hmmmmm. I am sure your GopherState mentality does not prevent you from being biased though. It must come down to those lucky talented line mates he had all those years.
Well I'd hope that was Schroeder's best HS season given he left to play in Ann Arbor after winning a title his freshman year.

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08-31-2010, 01:57 AM
  #38
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What a clownshoe this guy is. It'll be even more humorous to watch yet another Notre Dame team fall flat on it's face again this season now.

You want facts? Here's simple ones even you could follow. Bjugstad and Nelson were much more sought after than Anders Lee. As evident by their draft stock. Hell, even Budish was thought of as the stronger player and that's coming off of major knee reconstructive surgery. And football has no bearing on this discussion either because he had already declared his intentions. It certainly didn't hurt Alt this year. No reason to believe it had any sort of bearing on Lee. It may just be me, but I'll stick with the opinions of evaluators who do this for a living. Not some fan pushing for his favorite prospect.

And really, my short hairs are in my face about this one? Really? I stated my opinion about who's the better player and it's backed up with how each of these players have been evaluated through out their brief careers. Seems to me that you're the one who's butt hurt on the subject attempting to throw an argument that just isn't there back into everyone's face who has an alternative view than yours.

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08-31-2010, 02:18 AM
  #39
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What a clownshoe this guy is. It'll be even more humorous to watch yet another Notre Dame team fall flat on it's face again this season now.

You want facts? Here's simple ones even you could follow. Bjugstad and Nelson were much more sought after than Anders Lee. As evident by their draft stock. Hell, even Budish was thought of as the stronger player and that's coming off of major knee reconstructive surgery. And football has no bearing on this discussion either because he had already declared his intentions. It certainly didn't hurt Alt this year. No reason to believe it had any sort of bearing on Lee. It may just be me, but I'll stick with the opinions of evaluators who do this for a living. Not some fan pushing for his favorite prospect.

And really, my short hairs are in my face about this one? Really? I stated my opinion about who's the better player and it's backed up with how each of these players have been evaluated through out their brief careers. Seems to me that you're the one who's butt hurt on the subject attempting to throw an argument that just isn't there back into everyone's face who has an alternative view than yours.
Nyquil Man, You havent backed up anything at this point, you have refuted everything Lee has done, without any singulur fact regarding the records of Bjugstad or Nelson other than the opinions of "evaluators"? Maybe you mean JB of CCS, come on. I simply asked you to present a case for the "other two" and all you can do is refute what Lee has simply done. Facts are facts, are you have provided little to make your case. Do some homework before you post again, your really grasping at this point.

Perhaps you missed this Story from "The Hockey News" on Lee after his season in the USHL:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...mblin-man.html


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08-31-2010, 02:29 AM
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What more do I need to back-up at this point? They're all going to be starting at the same exact level. Let that be the judge. All we know now is the Lee is behind the developmental curve of the other two and the teams that selected both Bjugstad and Nelson thought of each in a much better light than Lee in their respective drafts.

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08-31-2010, 05:44 AM
  #41
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I'm from Minnesota and watched both Bjugstad and Nelson play at the state tournament. Both are obviously great players, but i liked Bjugstad better. Bjugstad is more of a power forward while Nelson just seemed well rounded. One thing i did notice is on the ice Nelson seemed pretty scrongy. He's tall, but definitely could add some more muscle. Both special players though. Personally, i think that florida got a steal because some teams are a bit skeptical when it comes to high school players due to the "level of competition". To be honest, our top high school teams are similar to top tier 1 AAA, just not quite as deep because all of the players come from your school district, you can't pull from all over the country like the AAA teams. Our top high school teams always give Shattuck a run for there money and sometimes beat them.
I think you're right about the uncertainty with high schoolers. They'll often not be seen in the same light as a number of other prospects, since they're often playing (nationwide) in leagues including kids aged 14-18, which ultimately leads to a wide range of performance drop from the top players in a team to the benchwarmers. In addition, high schoolers often don't play much in a season, at least with their high school team - certainly in comparison to Candian brethren playing in juniors.

Nonetheless, I'd have to say that high school hockey in Minnesota is given the most respect in the eyes of the scouts. When looking at the past few years of drafting, kids who were taken coming out of high school, regardless of the round, would seem to have been coming predominantly from Minnesota. Off the top of my head, they seem to lead by a country mile. Even Minnesota high schoolers going top 40 would include no less than Bjugstad, Nelson, Leddy and Ness in recent years. Who was the last to go top ten, Wheeler? Okposo was already in the USHL when he was drafted...


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08-31-2010, 06:02 AM
  #42
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I don't know how much you've seen of the USHL as of late but it's certainly not the type of league it was. And even then, it's not saying a whole heck of a lot. The only real talent in the league as of late is traditionally kids who forgo their Senior and even Junior years of high school. After that; the drop off is considerable with players who may be lucky to be offered D-2 opportunities. If they're lucky.

What Anders Lee did at his age in the USHL is far from impressive. You would expect any type of future D-1 player to put up those numbers and hopefully better at that age. Fellow late 2009 draft pick Erik Haula put up comparable statistics and most aren't all that excited about his projection. However, if there was a player to be excited about in the USHL, that player would be Seth Ambroz, who's almost a full 3 years younger than Lee. That's the type of talent you like to see in the USHL. Not an over-ager like Lee.

Again, coming from someone who's seen a considerable amount of these three players; Anders Lee isn't even near the discussion here. Questionable future sport direction or not; Anders Lee has never been thought of in the same light in this state as Nick Bjugstad nor Brock Nelson.
I haven't really read the rest of the posts after this one above (will get to that - I risk sounding mundane now), but this is good stuff. I am curious to see what becomes of Ambroz, and of course Jaden Schwartz had quite an initial USHL season, at least from a scoring standpoint.

Surely, and admittedly, I'm not watching USHL hockey. Like many others, just highlights here and there...YouTube stuff. As such, I'm not qualified to comment on its overall quality. I was however under the impression that it is a league that has been progressing from a quality standpoint and it certainly seems like a very viable nurturing spot between high school and NCAA. At least when one looks at how many kids around the NCAA have spent a year or two in the USHL, it would seem a top address for division I programs, even if many of the kids ultimately land elsewhere.

No comparing it to Canadian juniors, but seems to still play a key role in preparing kids for college hockey, many of whom end up being top college hockey players, even if only for a year or two before turning pro.

As for Lee, I think his season was special not so much for the regular season stats, or even his playoff leading topscorer stats, but rather for the accolades ndgolden mentioned in another post (... GWG's, 2nd in +- with 38 and was the USHL Rookie of the year, 1st Team All-USHL, and Clark Cup Playoff MVP...). That's something that has to be accomplished. In addition, the key to what makes it special is that it was the first real showing of what Lee can do when he's concentrating solely on hockey.

As I understood it in his draft year, he was considered a top 75 talent who was risky due to teams not being sure about whether he'd take the football route? Ultimately, he's now as good a 6th rounder as you'll find.

On the other hand, what might also support what you're saying, is that Lee doesn't seem to have been taken into consideration by USA hockey in any manner. Both Bjugstad and Nelson did very well at the selects this summer and look like very possible candidates for the WJC team, particularly Bjugstad. That alone would indicate to me that that latter two are on a much different radar than Lee.

Still, this has absolutely no bearing on who of the three will have a better freshman season or where they'll be in 5 years' time.


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08-31-2010, 06:05 AM
  #43
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I've always thought Lee was one of those guys whose success came more from athletic ability compared to his competition and being paired with some high-end players. He really should not be a Bjugstad v. Nelson conversation.
The question will have to be, is Lee in a class with those two now that he's concentrating full-time on hockey???


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08-31-2010, 06:10 AM
  #44
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I have to laugh at the two MN locals taking shots at Lee. Lets compare all three Seniors year.

Lee's Senior year in HS alone as compared to Nelson's and Bjugstad' clearly outclasses them by a distant mile. Lee' Sr year in HS while playing football games on Friday nights led the Bauer NIT tournament in scoring, was the Schwanns Cup tournament scoring leader, was runner-up in Scoring for the year in AA and led the State Tournament in scoring with 9 pts. Did Bjugstad even register a point in last years state tournament???? In fact Lee's Sr. Year when he played against Bjugstad lee registered 7pts to Bjugstad's 0pts.

You two make him out to be some big kid on skates, with no skill and brains. I'll take the QB gatorade player of the year, and his raw hockey talent any day. My prediction Lee will be a 2nd line Center for ND this year and the point production and even more importantly his +- will be much higher than Nelson and Bjugstad.

Nelson, will struggle to play full time at North Dakota and both will probably endure loss of games due to injury playing at the D-1 level.

Perhaps Lee will have his day when ND plays the Gophs outdoors at TCF in 2011 Do your homework boys and get back to me with something that sticks. Interesting stat. 32 of Lee's 35 goals were even strength this year for GB, but probably because he's just a strong kid....and its just the USHL.
Interesting post!

2nd line duties at ND? They do need some scoring.

I gotta agree that I think particularly Nelson will be a bit over his head at North Dakota. Still scrawny and heading to a program that often has 15 forwards of fairlyyyyy similar quality duking it out for playing time. Although I have NO idea how good the kid is, would Little Toews have left the NCAA had he gone to another solid program that offered more opportunity?

In any case, I suspect Bjugstad and Lee will have the most impact on their respective programs, both of which had disappointing seasons last year.

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08-31-2010, 06:11 AM
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wow... Interesting debate going on here with Anders Lee, Bjugstad and Nelson...

From what I have been reading, it seems that Lee is just a natural pure athlete... Once he starts to focus just on hockey he may get to the level where Nelson and Bjugstad are at now in the eyes of the scouts....

all (3) players are huge... I would tend to believe they have a few years to go to develop their games to get to the NHL level.... The state of Minnesota should hold it's head high with these prospects...

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08-31-2010, 06:18 AM
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Chapin Landvogt
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You miss the point. If he was to be taken seriously he should have been in D1. I, like many, think he is very raw. A physical monster. But i do not like his chances at the next level. A legit prospect should have been out of the USHL. I feel Lee needed the USHL becasue he is not there.
I don't know about the bold part. Seems like the USHL is getting some real (this being a little more indirect) dissin' at various junctures in this thread and yet there are plenty of solid Division 1 NCAAers taking that route. Whether they stick to college or move on the juniors/pros prematurely (Leblanc/Okposo) is one thing, but it would seem to me that for especially the CCHA and WCHA, a good portion of their players spend a year or two in the USHL.

It would also seem to be a solid step in preparing a kid for D1 hockey, with his mind set on being a pro one day.

Some other examples are Donovan for UofD and Kessel for UNH. Both had great USHL seasons and then moved on to be impact players for their respective colleges while also representing the US at the WJC, Donovan's role there having been quite important.

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08-31-2010, 06:25 AM
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What more do I need to back-up at this point? They're all going to be starting at the same exact level. Let that be the judge. All we know now is the Lee is behind the developmental curve of the other two and the teams that selected both Bjugstad and Nelson thought of each in a much better light than Lee in their respective drafts.
Well I guess when you explained it with such clairity and substance, the only conclusion I can make is that both Mr. Bjugstad and Mr. Nelson are well on their way to a more successful and impactful D-1 season debut in their budding NHL career paths than Mr Lee.

I will promise to take careful notes of any progress Mr. Lee is able to muster this season and get back to you if he is able to make up some of that developmental curve stuff that he is clearly behind in........hopefully he won't get too discourage at the skill level required to succeed at this level.


I should have known that the draft is the only and most accurate indicator of any players abilities and future success.


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08-31-2010, 06:31 AM
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Chapin Landvogt
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You want facts? Here's simple ones even you could follow. Bjugstad and Nelson were much more sought after than Anders Lee. As evident by their draft stock. Hell, even Budish was thought of as the stronger player and that's coming off of major knee reconstructive surgery. And football has no bearing on this discussion either because he had already declared his intentions. It certainly didn't hurt Alt this year. No reason to believe it had any sort of bearing on Lee. It may just be me, but I'll stick with the opinions of evaluators who do this for a living. Not some fan pushing for his favorite prospect.
That's interesting. If anything, I'd say it has a bearing because Lee was spending time excelling at it during valuable years of development instead of being on the ice refining his skills there.

Since having been drafted, I've read some short interviews with Lee (mostly via Islanders media) and recall one very specific passage where he said that (paraphrazing) "if folks had asked before the draft, he'd have told them that hockey was his choice and that there was no danger of him choosing football instead". Still, leading up to the draft, almost any time he was mentioned, there was talk of the danger of him choosing football over hockey, having been an accomplished football QB. Were scouts not doing their due diligence?

I don't know what that ultimately means, but as stated in a post above, I know he was expected to go much earlier than round 6, at least according to predraft rankings. Did he go so late because folks didn't want to chance precious picks on a guy who might not being playing hockey any more in a few months or because they felt he just didn't have enough upside?


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08-31-2010, 10:36 AM
  #49
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I think you're right about the uncertainty with high schoolers. They'll often not be seen in the same light as a number of other prospects, since they're often playing (nationwide) in leagues including kids aged 14-18, which ultimately leads to a wide range of performance drop from the top players in a team to the benchwarmers. In addition, high schoolers often don't play much in a season, at least with their high school team - certainly in comparison to Candian brethren playing in juniors.

Nonetheless, I'd have to say that high school hockey in Minnesota is given the most respect in the eyes of the scouts. When looking at the past few years of drafting, kids who were taken coming out of high school, regardless of the round, would seem to have been coming predominantly from Minnesota. Off the top of my head, they seem to lead by a country mile. Even Minnesota high schoolers going top 40 would include no less than Bjugstad, Nelson, Leddy and Ness in recent years. Who was the last to go top ten, Wheeler? Okposo was already in the USHL when he was drafted...
It would be Brian Lee going 9th the year after Wheeler.

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08-31-2010, 11:28 AM
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OK i have to give this another try. With regards to D1, high school and USHL or Ann Arbor.

You have your top tier. Players who excel to get to D1 early. Kessel and Toews. As underages what they did was huge.

Your 2nd level. Players who leave early to play a full year in the USHL. Or several years. Erik Johnson, Seth Ambroz, David Backes..

Your third. Players who stay through their senior year and go D1 the next year. Oshie, Niskanen...

The 4th level. Guys who play through their senior year then go to the USHL for a full year.

The majority of yur NHLers fit in 1-3. You can still make it out of group 4. Wheeler was drafed and then played a full year of USHL and looks to be a solid NHLer.

With Lee. I am trying to say. At this point in his career. I would have liked to see him take routes 1-2 if we are to get a very accurate assesment of where he is. I do not balme for staying to play football. I think it was a great idea. I have stated many times that teens need to have a clear head. No could ofs. Lee elminated that and did what he wanted when he could. The i would like to have seen him play D1 last year. By falling to the 4th level. It puts him behind the norm IMO. I do how ever feel that Lee needed that year in the USHL. He is a power player. He needed to know what it was like dominate. In D1 last he would not have had success playing his style. He could have gotten detered or tried to change.

Looking at high school numbers. Lets take the career or Pat White. Led Grand Rapids to back to back second place finishes. Beat Cloquet both years just to get in. Then upset the #1 overal seed both years. Was huge and clutch. Opposing coaches gave specifics on how to play White. He was that Grand Rapids team. I think exept for Stejskal(sp) no one else went major D1 from those years. Could be wrong. Goes to the USHL and nets 8 goals in 12 games. Over a season thats 39 goals. Lee had 35 in that same 59 games.

High school and USHL stats mean little. They help. Rather a guy dominate high school and the USHL then have him falter.

I would love to Lee have great success. I love mn hockey and everything related to it. Whether it be a born Minnesotian, a WCHAer or a Wild. If Lee goes on to be an NHL all star. That means that the high school league is worthy of its rep. But i also understand that there are several factors in talent. Honestly. I do not see Lee has having that big of an impact.

So call people names. Accuse me of drinking. What ever. We are talking about a guy that had a great USHL season after every team in the NHL passed him over several times.

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