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08-30-2010, 03:33 PM
  #51
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I disagree, while he was Dominant offensively with a capital D, he was also directly responsible for some goals based on his bad defence. He also took a lot of bad penalties.
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This article is solely about Briere. You brought Richards into it and now (shockingly!) you're bringing your obsession into it. Why is that? What the hell does Carter have to do with this article?
It is a direct comparison of the players on the roster and what people's expectations are at this time and when they were brought in either as draft picks or UFA's. IMO your view of Briere is obscured because you are missing why he was brought in and that expectations of him are at this point, and just an FYI it was never for his defensive ability.

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08-30-2010, 03:44 PM
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No he does not. He was a UFA and filled a need, Homer had to overpay due to the great unknown of Carter and Richards plus the failing PP numbers. Out of the three, Briere/Drury/Gomez, and the money he got this one right. Hindsight being 20/20 it seems logical to have maybe of gotten a stopgap and hope for the best but then kiss the 2008 ECF run goodbye because you are not getting there without Briere. For the PP time he is getting and the shuffling of lines and his playing out of position the numbers probably signify what his role on this team is at this point, playoff guru.
I understand the circumstances surrounding the Briere signing, and yes he was a better choice than Drury and Gomez. However, let's not pretend that he wasn't brought in here to be the #1 offensive threat on this team. He scored 90pts the season before we signed him and the expectation was that he was a point per game player.

Also lets not pretend that his position and linemates have much to do with it, becuase they don't.

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08-30-2010, 04:56 PM
  #53
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Here's a full Q and A (in case it hasn't been posted):

http://blogs.courierpostonline.com/f...ed-to-be-back/

Quote:
Danny Briere Quotes from Friday, August 27, 2010

Q: Danny, are you back in town to stay?

DB: “Yes, I’m back in town and will be ready for the start of training camp. I might leave town here and there for charity events but for the most part I’m back to stay. I am so excited to be back, too. I’m looking forward to the new season. Yes, the break was short because we played so long but that is a good problem to have. I’m sure I speak for a lot of the other guys, but for me, the playoff run was so much fun. All the emotion and the way we came together as a team was really special. I’m so excited for this season to begin.”

Q: It looks like you lost weight. Did you?

DB: “My weight, which is 170 pounds right now, is actually the same as when we were playing in the playoffs last season. I had some personal issues to deal with during the first half of the season last year and I lost a lot of weight. I was able to gain a little bit more going down the stretch. But I’m still about 10 pounds lighter than I have been the last three training camps. After the way things went in the playoffs last year I decided it worked out well at this weight and I wanted to stay at this weight. I’m a little lighter and I wanted to work a little more on my quickness. Obviously, I’m not a guy who is around here for fighting. My assets are my quickness and I feel being 10 pounds lighter should help me for next season.”

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08-30-2010, 05:09 PM
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Good to know he isn't full of ****. Always like the too-the-point players.

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08-30-2010, 05:44 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
It is a direct comparison of the players on the roster and what people's expectations are at this time and when they were brought in either as draft picks or UFA's. IMO your view of Briere is obscured because you are missing why he was brought in and that expectations of him are at this point, and just an FYI it was never for his defensive ability.
If someone came into this thread and said they made chicken for dinner, you would come in immediately and blame Carter for burning it.

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08-30-2010, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
Here's a full Q and A (in case it hasn't been posted):

http://blogs.courierpostonline.com/f...ed-to-be-back/
Thanks for posting, MSE! It sounds like he's ready to kick some butt. Can't wait till October!

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08-31-2010, 12:03 AM
  #57
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Thanks for posting, MSE! It sounds like he's ready to kick some butt. Can't wait till October!
Too bad the real Briere died in that car accident in June, and all we have now is a look-alike.

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08-31-2010, 12:05 AM
  #58
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I'm just waiting for a player to give an interview in which he says he plans to slack, get into hard drugs, and coast for the next 4 years of his paycheck until the last year where he pulls it together for another team to anti up.

Of course he's gonna say he plans to continue his success

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08-31-2010, 12:13 AM
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^^like this....

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08-31-2010, 12:14 AM
  #60
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I'm just waiting for a player to give an interview in which he says he plans to slack, get into hard drugs, and coast for the next 4 years of his paycheck until the last year where he pulls it together for another team to anti up.

Of course he's gonna say he plans to continue his success
I don't know, man. NFL/NBA players are getting dangerously close. I figure it'll happen in Hard Knocks. I mean, did you see this?



Just awesome.

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08-31-2010, 03:28 AM
  #61
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I don't know, man. NFL/NBA players are getting dangerously close. I figure it'll happen in Hard Knocks. I mean, did you see this?



Just awesome.
Millionaires can't afford condoms. Sounds like he is breeding his own ****ing football team.

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08-31-2010, 09:42 AM
  #62
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Millionaires can't afford condoms. Sounds like he is breeding his own ****ing football team.
Apparently 3 years and 9 months ago, Cromartie was a serious man-*****.

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08-31-2010, 09:44 AM
  #63
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I understand the circumstances surrounding the Briere signing, and yes he was a better choice than Drury and Gomez. However, let's not pretend that he wasn't brought in here to be the #1 offensive threat on this team. He scored 90pts the season before we signed him and the expectation was that he was a point per game player.

Also lets not pretend that his position and linemates have much to do with it, becuase they don't.
Linemates totally have a lot to do with his production as does where he plays on a line. His production has gone up each time he plays with players who play a more skating to cycle the puck style, using their stick handling and moving picks to create the space, also his passing skills and someone who can finish. Putting him with Carter and Hartnell was a deathknoll for his style of game, it changed once Leino was put in there and he was able to play like Prospal did, skate and cycle with movement, do not get stagnant. Briere needs to be with players who move and skate, period, that is when he is most successful.

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08-31-2010, 09:59 AM
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I don't know, man. NFL/NBA players are getting dangerously close. I figure it'll happen in Hard Knocks. I mean, did you see this?



Just awesome.
I kind of agree with the people breaking this clip down - he's remembering them all, but he has a damn lot of kids and he's listing them in order, with birthdays and all.

I think it makes him look worse than it really should.

That said, he definitely has more kids than is necessary.

Besides, the person who posted this video to make fun of him can't even spell "tries."

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08-31-2010, 10:02 AM
  #65
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Linemates totally have a lot to do with his production as does where he plays on a line. His production has gone up each time he plays with players who play a more skating to cycle the puck style, using their stick handling and moving picks to create the space, also his passing skills and someone who can finish. Putting him with Carter and Hartnell was a deathknoll for his style of game, it changed once Leino was put in there and he was able to play like Prospal did, skate and cycle with movement, do not get stagnant. Briere needs to be with players who move and skate, period, that is when he is most successful.
This is a LIE each and every time you say it.

Briere had 36 even strength points last year, the majority of which he was playing with Carter and Hartnell. In his first season here, he had 35 even strength points.

His career high for even strength points was 65, and he's never been close to that in any other season in his career. It's just not going to happen here barring a miracle.

Danny Briere has 2, just 2, PPG seasons on his resume and both came playing on a Buffalo team that was both quite unique in its playing style capabilities, and also directly following the lockout when the officials were the most stringent in implementing the obstruction rules. Since then the officials have backed off and the game has clogged up again a bit. That, more than anything, is why Briere (A small player that relies on his quickness to create chances... and thus will be more affected by obstruction) has seen a decline since his Buffalo days. On top of that, last year, he didn't pop as many points on the PP (completely independent factor from Carter and even strength play) as he has in the past.

This claim that Carter had some devastating impact on Briere's offensive game is a complete myth.

Independent of the fact that his line got hot at even strength in the playoffs, the other area of Briere's game also jumped. Briere had 10 PP points in the playoffs, which pro-rates out to 36 PP points over an 82 game schedule... he had 17 last year. The lowest total in a full season for his entire career.

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08-31-2010, 10:12 AM
  #66
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I kind of agree with the people breaking this clip down - he's remembering them all, but he has a damn lot of kids and he's listing them in order, with birthdays and all.

I think it makes him look worse than it really should.

That said, he definitely has more kids than is necessary.

Besides, the person who posted this video to make fun of him can't even spell "tries."
Oh, I think it's getting overblown... but it's still pure comedy.

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08-31-2010, 10:19 AM
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This is a LIE each and every time you say it.

Briere had 36 even strength points last year, the majority of which he was playing with Carter and Hartnell. In his first season here, he had 35 even strength points.

His career high for even strength points was 65, and he's never been close to that in any other season in his career. It's just not going to happen here barring a miracle.

Danny Briere has 2, just 2, PPG seasons on his resume and both came playing on a Buffalo team that was both quite unique in its playing style capabilities, and also directly following the lockout when the officials were the most stringent in implementing the obstruction rules. Since then the officials have backed off and the game has clogged up again a bit. That, more than anything, is why Briere (A small player that relies on his quickness to create chances... and thus will be more affected by obstruction) has seen a decline since his Buffalo days. On top of that, last year, he didn't pop as many points on the PP (completely independent factor from Carter and even strength play) as he has in the past.

This claim that Carter had some devastating impact on Briere's offensive game is a complete myth.

Independent of the fact that his line got hot at even strength in the playoffs, the other area of Briere's game also jumped. Briere had 10 PP points in the playoffs, which pro-rates out to 36 PP points over an 82 game schedule... he had 17 last year. The lowest total in a full season for his entire career.
So explain when he gets a linemate such as Prospal or Leino his game seems to come around? Or even the time he spent with Giroux. We'll just leave Carter out of the conversation because his performance goes up when he plays with certain types of players. Briere needs to be with a linemate who likes to share the puck so he can get space off of the boards and not be confined to fighting for every puck along the boards. There certainly seems to be a correlation between Briere's production and a certain type of linemate. Maybe I am wrong here, but look at when his game spikes and what players are on his line.

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08-31-2010, 10:22 AM
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Oh, I think it's getting overblown... but it's still pure comedy.
I still cannot understand how he did not take the time to impregnate so many different women in one year, he has like four kids age 3. Did the college he went to not have a basic human growth class he could have taken in route to his "college degree"?

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08-31-2010, 10:36 AM
  #69
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So explain when he gets a linemate such as Prospal or Leino his game seems to come around? Or even the time he spent with Giroux. We'll just leave Carter out of the conversation because his performance goes up when he plays with certain types of players. Briere needs to be with a linemate who likes to share the puck so he can get space off of the boards and not be confined to fighting for every puck along the boards. There certainly seems to be a correlation between Briere's production and a certain type of linemate. Maybe I am wrong here, but look at when his game spikes and what players are on his line.
Briere was quite good the majority of his first season here independent of Prospal outside of a single stretch where he struggled -- he had a brutal February. His best month that year was November... well before Prospal was here.

Moreover... Briere had a better regular season as an even strength player last year with Carter centering him!

Prospal is a good offensive player... he's produced everywhere he's ever played. Are we really shocked that they produced some offense together?

Leino went on an insane run in the playoffs... which he hasn't done previously in the NHL. Briere benefited from that. Who knows if he'll be able to produce like that again... but that stuff happens in the playoffs literally every single year.

And, additionally, you're paying WAY too much attention to simply Briere's production. Every single player needs to be viewed with a cost-benefit analysis eye. Briere likely will score a few more points as a center as he does as a wing (you pick up more assists and are in the middle of the ice with the puck more), but it comes with a price at the other end. Even with a HORRID year for him on the PP last year, Briere was a net +15 for the team if you count his PP production. His first year here? He was a net +15. So if Briere had produced on the PP last year -- even with the supposed "deathknoll" for him being on Carter's wing -- he would have easily outpaced his positive value to the team.

BTW, since you were comparing them. Carter was a net +24 last year, +47 the year before, and +24 the year before that.

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08-31-2010, 12:27 PM
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Briere was quite good the majority of his first season here independent of Prospal outside of a single stretch where he struggled -- he had a brutal February. His best month that year was November... well before Prospal was here.

Moreover... Briere had a better regular season as an even strength player last year with Carter centering him!

Prospal is a good offensive player... he's produced everywhere he's ever played. Are we really shocked that they produced some offense together?

Leino went on an insane run in the playoffs... which he hasn't done previously in the NHL. Briere benefited from that. Who knows if he'll be able to produce like that again... but that stuff happens in the playoffs literally every single year.

And, additionally, you're paying WAY too much attention to simply Briere's production. Every single player needs to be viewed with a cost-benefit analysis eye. Briere likely will score a few more points as a center as he does as a wing (you pick up more assists and are in the middle of the ice with the puck more), but it comes with a price at the other end. Even with a HORRID year for him on the PP last year, Briere was a net +15 for the team if you count his PP production. His first year here? He was a net +15. So if Briere had produced on the PP last year -- even with the supposed "deathknoll" for him being on Carter's wing -- he would have easily outpaced his positive value to the team.

BTW, since you were comparing them. Carter was a net +24 last year, +47 the year before, and +24 the year before that.

You can take that for all it is worth, but the results were that the Flyers played their best hockey with Briere on his roll and made it as far as they did because of the post-season production. Briere's cost-performance ratio is valued on when he was brought in to Philly, which was to fill the need of PP producer, not to be a defensive center.

Bottom line is for the Flyers to be successful both Carter and Briere would need to be successful, but moreso with balanced lines that can produce. I have always been skeptical of the defensive liabilities of Briere because if they can pin in the defense and get offensive zone time this takes precedence over whether he is a Selke Award winner on defense. If you can play in the offensive zone for 40-50 seconds a shift, maintain possession it is the best possible defense a team can find.....POSSESSION.

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08-31-2010, 12:37 PM
  #71
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You can take that for all it is worth, but the results were that the Flyers played their best hockey with Briere on his roll and made it as far as they did because of the post-season production. Briere's cost-performance ratio is valued on when he was brought in to Philly, which was to fill the need of PP producer, not to be a defensive center.
Richards was on a roll, too... he was the team's leading scorer before they got to the SCF.

And obviously Briere wasn't brought in to be a defensive center, but he also wasn't brought in when it was believed that Richards was going to necessarily develop into the offensive force he's become either. **** changes.

However, none of that really gets at the fact that there are MASSIVE holes in the "Briere was hurt by playing on Carter's wing" argument. Like gaping ones that make it a completely untenable argument.

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Bottom line is for the Flyers to be successful both Carter and Briere would need to be successful, but moreso with balanced lines that can produce. I have always been skeptical of the defensive liabilities of Briere because if they can pin in the defense and get offensive zone time this takes precedence over whether he is a Selke Award winner on defense. If you can play in the offensive zone for 40-50 seconds a shift, maintain possession it is the best possible defense a team can find.....POSSESSION.
He's -25 as a Flyer and (-30 for his career) and you're "skeptical of the defensive liabilities of Briere"? Plus-minus ain't the greatest stat in the world, but you're doing an impressively horrible job if you're a big minus on a decent team that's winning more than it's losing.

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08-31-2010, 12:57 PM
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Richards was on a roll, too... he was the team's leading scorer before they got to the SCF.

And obviously Briere wasn't brought in to be a defensive center, but he also wasn't brought in when it was believed that Richards was going to necessarily develop into the offensive force he's become either. **** changes.

However, none of that really gets at the fact that there are MASSIVE holes in the "Briere was hurt by playing on Carter's wing" argument. Like gaping ones that make it a completely untenable argument.



He's -25 as a Flyer and (-30 for his career) and you're "skeptical of the defensive liabilities of Briere"? Plus-minus ain't the greatest stat in the world, but you're doing an impressively horrible job if you're a big minus on a decent team that's winning more than it's losing.

My point in Briere playing with Carter and Hartnell is that neither is a puck possession type player, both tend to have different mentalities in regards to their play. Carter is more of a carry up the ice and shoot, while Hartnell tends to crash the net. Briere prefers to gain possession on the blueline, slow the play down, and break down the defense by skating with the puck and creating seams in the defense.

Agree with the Leino shot in the dark theory, but if he does happen to provide to be a good linemate for Briere it will because he likes to maintain possession of the puck by skating and creating space with moving picks and drop passes to get mismatches. Forget the +/- stat and look at what players would complement each line going into this year. Briere needs more skill players to play with to be a positive on this squad, but he is worth every penny of his cotnract for the two runs he has been on in the playoffs, that is for sure.

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08-31-2010, 01:07 PM
  #73
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My point in Briere playing with Carter and Hartnell is that neither is a puck possession type player, both tend to have different mentalities in regards to their play. Carter is more of a carry up the ice and shoot, while Hartnell tends to crash the net. Briere prefers to gain possession on the blueline, slow the play down, and break down the defense by skating with the puck and creating seams in the defense.

Agree with the Leino shot in the dark theory, but if he does happen to provide to be a good linemate for Briere it will because he likes to maintain possession of the puck by skating and creating space with moving picks and drop passes to get mismatches. Forget the +/- stat and look at what players would complement each line going into this year. Briere needs more skill players to play with to be a positive on this squad, but he is worth every penny of his cotnract for the two runs he has been on in the playoffs, that is for sure.
You aren't paid to show up for 2 months of the season.

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08-31-2010, 01:21 PM
  #74
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The major reason that Briere should not be playing with Carter is simple. Carter does not need Briere to score goals.

Obviously playing with Carter will help anyone's stats. Give Carter the puck. Let Carter go down the ice and score. It's not a surprise that Briere's stats didnt go down playing with Carter. It's impossible for your stats to go down when you are playing with a natural goal scorer. But that does not mean you are maximizing Briere's value.

Briere would be better suited playing with players who need him on their line to score (ie, Leino). By doing that, Carter still scores his goals, but you also get more production from guys like Leino who wouldnt be producing if not for playing with a dynamic offensive player like Briere.

Briere is not hurt by playing with Carter, true, but his game is not being used effectively, and while that's not what Cartsiephan is saying, I think that may be what he means.

I do think putting Briere with Carter is pointless. I think putting any of the skill players with Carter is pointless. You just wont be utilizing the skill set that a skill player has if you dont allow him to have the puck on his stick.

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08-31-2010, 01:27 PM
  #75
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The major reason that Briere should not be playing with Carter is simple. Carter does not need Briere to score goals.

Obviously playing with Carter will help anyone's stats. Give Carter the puck. Let Carter go down the ice and score. It's not a surprise that Briere's stats didnt go down playing with Carter. It's impossible for your stats to go down when you are playing with a natural goal scorer. But that does not mean you are maximizing Briere's value.

Briere would be better suited playing with players who need him on their line to score (ie, Leino). By doing that, Carter still scores his goals, but you also get more production from guys like Leino who wouldnt be producing if not for playing with a dynamic offensive player like Briere.

Briere is not hurt by playing with Carter, true, but his game is not being used effectively, and while that's not what Cartsiephan is saying, I think that may be what he means.

I do think putting Briere with Carter is pointless. I think putting any of the skill players with Carter is pointless. You just wont be utilizing the skill set that a skill player has if you dont allow him to have the puck on his stick.
So the Caps should take Backstrom off Ovechkin's line?

Briere is good for Carter... he puts some pace on his wing (someone that can keep up with him), as well as someone else that can control the puck (Carter did make some strides last year in giving up the puck and playing off of it). The entire offense was snakebit last year, and multiple people went through bad cold spells (Hartnell notably on that line).

Now, I don't have a problem with trying out the Briere line from the playoffs again... but that shouldn't be because there was something wrong with having him with Carter last year. However, I also would prefer Giroux in that spot anyway.

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