HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

70's Habs v. 80's Oilers

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-16-2005, 09:57 PM
  #1
chooch*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 946
vCash: 500
70's Habs v. 80's Oilers

I think the 77 Habs could have played the 80's Islanders and 80's Oilers on alternate nights in a best of seven each and the final score would have been this:

Habs 8 games - 0.

The best coach ever, the most dynamic star ever, best 3 defencemen ever to play on a team, best defensive player ever, best gm ever. No contest.

chooch* is offline  
Old
04-16-2005, 10:12 PM
  #2
Trottier
Very Random
 
Trottier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 29,236
vCash: 500
...Which gives us solid insight into your objectivity and hockey acumen.

As is, the 1976 and 1977 versions of NYI (a pre-Cup version of that future dynasty) won three playoff games from the Habs over those two seasons. To be sure, nothing to brag about, but the idea that the Habs would have walked through the dynasty Isles and Oilers teams is farcical.

PS - This opinion comes from one who considers that 1977 Habs team hands down the best in my lifetime.


Last edited by Trottier: 04-16-2005 at 11:11 PM.
Trottier is offline  
Old
04-16-2005, 10:15 PM
  #3
acr*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: My Pit of Danger
Country:
Posts: 47,526
vCash: 500
It's purely biased to claim they'd go 8-0 in both series'.

With the offense the Oilers had, they'd steal a game or two, and I think the Islanders were a very solid team capable of hanging with those Habs teams.

acr* is offline  
Old
04-17-2005, 12:24 PM
  #4
MassiveHabs
Registered User
 
MassiveHabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,803
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to MassiveHabs
Yea, even as a Die hard Habs fan, I don't think they could go 8-0 against either of those teams. They would win, IMO but not undefeated...

MassiveHabs is offline  
Old
04-17-2005, 01:00 PM
  #5
KariyaIsGod*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,139
vCash: 500
Don't mind Chooch... He has some sort of issue with Wayne Gretzky...

That being said, they would not sweep either team. I agree the Habs had the better defense and goaltending but THe Oilers had better forwards...

Sure, Lafleur would be good but Gretzky would be the difference that could help the Oilers go farther. Even those defensemen wouldn't be able to stop him.

I can't really speak too much on the Islanders but I guearantee they wouldn't lose every game either...

KariyaIsGod* is offline  
Old
04-17-2005, 01:13 PM
  #6
Lowetide
Registered User
 
Lowetide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,280
vCash: 500
Interesting. I certainly wouldn't agree that either the Isles or Oil would go in four straight, but the Habs teams of the late 70s were certainly outstanding. Makes one wonder what might have happened had Pollock and Bowman stayed on for another decade.

Lowetide is offline  
Old
04-17-2005, 01:41 PM
  #7
Habsfan 32
Registered User
 
Habsfan 32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Way up north...
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,316
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Habsfan 32 Send a message via MSN to Habsfan 32
I think the Habs would win. If I go by what my grand pa told me they would certainly win but not undefeated.

Habsfan 32 is offline  
Old
04-17-2005, 02:05 PM
  #8
KOVALEV10*
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Simply the best!
Posts: 3,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMoses
Don't mind Chooch... He has some sort of issue with Wayne Gretzky...

That being said, they would not sweep either team. I agree the Habs had the better defense and goaltending but THe Oilers had better forwards...

Sure, Lafleur would be good but Gretzky would be the difference that could help the Oilers go farther. Even those defensemen wouldn't be able to stop him.

I can't really speak too much on the Islanders but I guearantee they wouldn't lose every game either...
Well in the playoffs both Guy and Wayne were just as valuable to their teams so Lafleur would be the difference just as Wayne would. The habs defense was clearly better though. All in all it would be close but habs would take it in the end. Islanders dont even compare though..

KOVALEV10* is offline  
Old
04-17-2005, 02:20 PM
  #9
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,898
vCash: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
I think the 77 Habs could have played the 80's Islanders and 80's Oilers on alternate nights in a best of seven each and the final score would have been this:

Habs 8 games - 0.

The best coach ever, the most dynamic star ever, best 3 defencemen ever to play on a team, best defensive player ever, best gm ever. No contest.

No insult to you personally, but this thread is inviting antagonism by looking for trouble with assinine statements. It doesn't even merit argument.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
04-17-2005, 02:36 PM
  #10
Trottier
Very Random
 
Trottier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 29,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan 32
I think the Habs would win. If I go by what my grand pa told me they would certainly win but not undefeated.
Your grand pa?

Geez, thanks for ruining my day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Islanders dont even compare though..
One notices quite the anti-NYI bias among some Habs fans on this board.

All subjective of course, but suggesting "no contest" between two consecutive four-time Cup champs, and passing off Mike Bossy as "no comparsion" to Guy Lafleur (made by another poster) is, respectfully, ridiculous.

If, as mentioned previously, the Isles of '76 and '77 were the Habs best playoff competition those years, it is not a stretch whatsoever to project that a Cup-experienced juggernaut of '82 or '83 would have been solid competition for that '77 team.

And how do those Oilers teams suddenly project as clearly superior to the Isles? Offensively, no doubt. All-around? Hardly a given. The Oilers were a elite team for a longer period than NYI. However, to suggest that the best Edmonton team - whichever year one chooses - was clearly superior to the best Islander team is speculation at best. And, it conveniently forgets 1983. (No, I have not forgotten '84.)


Last edited by Trottier: 04-17-2005 at 02:49 PM.
Trottier is offline  
Old
04-17-2005, 02:55 PM
  #11
CoupeStanley
Registered User
 
CoupeStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nicolet
Country: Martinique
Posts: 2,577
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CoupeStanley
The 70's Habs are always in comparaison for best team ever, but what about the late 50' Habs?

Maurice Richard
Jean Beliveau
Henri Richard
Dickie Moore
Doug Harvey
Boom Boom Geoffrion
Bert Olmstead


With Jacques Plante in net.. Toe Blake as a coach!

There's no doubt in my mind, this is the best hockey team that ever play the game.

CoupeStanley is offline  
Old
04-17-2005, 02:56 PM
  #12
Jussi
Hey everyone
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The lunatic fridge
Country: Finland
Posts: 55,393
vCash: 500
Well maybe someone who has no life could play '77 Habs vs. '84 Oilers on ESPN NHL 2K5 with the cpu in control for both teams and tell us how it went.

Jussi is offline  
Old
04-17-2005, 06:47 PM
  #13
Rather Gingerly 1*
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,832
vCash: 500
I would put my money on the '76 Canadiens. Certainly not in a sweep. But they are considered the greatest team ever.

Rather Gingerly 1* is offline  
Old
04-20-2005, 03:50 PM
  #14
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,896
vCash: 500
Heres my take. In my mind the '77 Habs are the best team of all time. That being said they would never sweep the Isles or the Oilers. In '76 the Habs lost one playoff game, it was to the Isles. In '77 they lost two, it was both to the Isles. This was a team that didnt even have Mike Bossy yet too! So I dont think people should underestimate the Isles. I mean before they won in '80 the lost to the Habs in '76, '77 then lost to the Leafs in '78 in OT after Mike Palmateer robbed the Isles. Then they lost to an extremely overacheiving Ranger team in '79. So they were good all those years even before the Cup. I think an '82 Isles team would be the best bet against the Habs. Maybe they could go to six games?

The Oilers best team was most likely '84. They too would be the best bet against the Habs but still wouldnt win. Fuhr is not as good as Dryden. Then on defense Robinson, Savard and Lapointe definetly beat Coffey, Lowe and Huddy. Up front Gretzky, Kurri, Messier and Anderson have the edge over the Habs. The Oilers had the best offense of all time so they'd beat the Habs in that area, but when you think of Lafleur, Shutt, Lemaire, P. Mahovolich etc.... the Habs still had the most potent offense in the league then too. The Oiers might hit seven games against the Habs, but that's only if Game 6 was won in OT by them. Then the Habs would win in the Forum.

So in conclusion the Habs are just too deep and dominant of a team to lose to anyone. They had NO weaknesses, NONE. The Oilers were explosive offensively but had a few defensive weaknesses. And Lafleur would have eaten those up.

Big Phil is offline  
Old
04-20-2005, 03:55 PM
  #15
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoupeStanley
The 70's Habs are always in comparaison for best team ever, but what about the late 50' Habs?

Maurice Richard
Jean Beliveau
Henri Richard
Dickie Moore
Doug Harvey
Boom Boom Geoffrion
Bert Olmstead


With Jacques Plante in net.. Toe Blake as a coach!

There's no doubt in my mind, this is the best hockey team that ever play the game.
Great team no doubt in my mind as well. They for some reason get overlooked as do the '50-55 Red Wings. Five Cups in a row from 56'60 is still very, very good even if there were only six teams. Both Richards, Beliveau, Moore, Geoffrion, Harvey and Plante are no slouches thats for sure. Its funny, if it was so easy to do five Cups in a row back in the 50s then why didnt everyone else do it? Its no different than the Isles four in a row, I mean its not as if the rest of the teams lay down and let the Habs walk all over them.

Big Phil is offline  
Old
04-20-2005, 04:34 PM
  #16
Slats432
Registered User
 
Slats432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,608
vCash: 500
Interesting....I may plug them all into my FHL simulator and run a tourney...

1956 Habs
1977 Habs
1984 Oilers
1982 Isles
1972 Bruins
1975 Flyers
1976 Soviet Red Army
1992 Penguins

Yes I have a life...but it would be an interesting project. And BTW...as a lifelong Habs fan that lives in Edmonton, and now cheers for the Oilers as well..chooch is on the crack.

Slats432 is offline  
Old
04-20-2005, 04:40 PM
  #17
Malefic74
Registered User
 
Malefic74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Halfway between Nothing and Not Much Else
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,758
vCash: 500
It's assinine to think the Habs would have swept those series, and I too consider the 77 Habs the best team ever iced.

Dryden is marginally better than Smith or Fuhr, but the differences are small as all three lived for the playoffs and the pressure to perform.

The Oilers defense is the weakest of the three. While they can contribute to a lot of transition offense what they give up going the other way would be very, very dangerous particularly to scorers like Lafleur or Shutt. The Isles defense has always been underrated IMO. Led by Potvin and supported with stalwarts like Kenny Morrow and Tomas Jonsson this defense could shut down and trasition with the best. Clearly though Montreal's Big Three trump that. They could play physical, they could rush, they could pass and they could shoot. Throw in Bouchard, Nyrop and Chartraw to clear the crease and there is no obvious way to attack them. Advantage Canadiens.

Up front is tougher. Both the Oilers and Isles had two very good scoring lines with Edmonton being a little more explosive. They scored in bunches and more off the rush than New York. The Isles forwards were a lot tougher though, they were a grinding offense that simply wore teams out with their tenacity and forecheck. The Canadiens forward lines were each built for specific purposes. The Lafleur line was the scoring line, followed by the Cournoyer, Lemaire line as well. Then you had Jarvis, Gainey and Wilson as your checkers, with Risebrough line as the Energy line. The difference is that checking line. Not to slag the checkers the Isles had and that the Oilers supposedly had, but Gainey and Jarvis would give their opposition fits. In a short series the scorers have the advantage, but over a long series the checkers would make a difference in both offenses.

IMO the Isles would give the Habs more problems than Edmonton would. The Habs had enough speed on the roster to keep up with Edmonton up front and the defnse and goaltending of Dryden would put them over.

The Isles didn't give up much and they played a really tough style to defend against. The only reason I suspect Montreal would win out is that the mid-70s Bruins were built almost the same way and Montreal were always able to beat them.

It would be a lot closer than it looks on paper.

Malefic74 is offline  
Old
04-20-2005, 04:54 PM
  #18
loadie
Official Beer Taster
 
loadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Interesting....I may plug them all into my FHL simulator and run a tourney...

1956 Habs
1977 Habs
1984 Oilers
1982 Isles
1972 Bruins
1975 Flyers
1976 Soviet Red Army
1992 Penguins

Yes I have a life...but it would be an interesting project. And BTW...as a lifelong Habs fan that lives in Edmonton, and now cheers for the Oilers as well..chooch is on the crack.
I have to agree with you on that one. BTW, I'm a diehard Habs fan living in Edmonton. You aren't my neighbour are ya?

loadie is offline  
Old
04-20-2005, 07:16 PM
  #19
chooch*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil
Heres my take. In my mind the '77 Habs are the best team of all time. That being said they would never sweep the Isles or the Oilers. In '76 the Habs lost one playoff game, it was to the Isles. In '77 they lost two, it was both to the Isles. This was a team that didnt even have Mike Bossy yet too! So I dont think people should underestimate the Isles. I mean before they won in '80 the lost to the Habs in '76, '77 then lost to the Leafs in '78 in OT after Mike Palmateer robbed the Isles. Then they lost to an extremely overacheiving Ranger team in '79. So they were good all those years even before the Cup. I think an '82 Isles team would be the best bet against the Habs. Maybe they could go to six games?

The Oilers best team was most likely '84. They too would be the best bet against the Habs but still wouldnt win. Fuhr is not as good as Dryden. Then on defense Robinson, Savard and Lapointe definetly beat Coffey, Lowe and Huddy. Up front Gretzky, Kurri, Messier and Anderson have the edge over the Habs. The Oilers had the best offense of all time so they'd beat the Habs in that area, but when you think of Lafleur, Shutt, Lemaire, P. Mahovolich etc.... the Habs still had the most potent offense in the league then too. The Oiers might hit seven games against the Habs, but that's only if Game 6 was won in OT by them. Then the Habs would win in the Forum.

So in conclusion the Habs are just too deep and dominant of a team to lose to anyone. They had NO weaknesses, NONE. The Oilers were explosive offensively but had a few defensive weaknesses. And Lafleur would have eaten those up.
I agree with all that plus they had Scotty. I think the most the Habs would lose would be a total of 4 games against these 2 teams combined.

Gainey /Jarvis and Houle/Roberts would take care of 99 and Kurri or Bossy/Trottier. Dryden always was weak against Bossy (and Leach and Rene Robert btw) so woudl also have been weak v. Kurri maybe. But he never let in a crucial goal until Middleton.

chooch* is offline  
Old
04-20-2005, 07:42 PM
  #20
s7ark
Moderator
Fast and Up - JP
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,930
vCash: 500
I have never seen the 77 Habs or LaFleur or Shutt play live, but from the stuff I have seen on tape those players didn't seem to be too far ahead of the Bossy's, Dionne's, Goulet's, Lemieux's, and Bourque's that the Oilers did play against and beat. I think the Oilers offense was unstoppable when at it's best. Gretzky's vision would have put the Oilers over the top IMHO.

When Gretz was at his peak you could almost not stop him as he could see players that you couldn't and had the ability to hit any hole you present to get them the puck. And with backstoping Fuhr provided, the defense didn't need to be the best. The Oilers were a team that set the record number of goals in a season and I think hold either 4 or 5 of the top positions in that list. I am not saying they would win for sure as the Habs were a fabulous team, but the Oilers were as well. Tough call

__________________
.... Solidify the D
s7ark is offline  
Old
04-20-2005, 07:57 PM
  #21
Malefic74
Registered User
 
Malefic74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Halfway between Nothing and Not Much Else
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
I have never seen the 77 Habs or LaFleur or Shutt play live, but from the stuff I have seen on tape those players didn't seem to be too far ahead of the Bossy's, Dionne's, Goulet's, Lemieux's, and Bourque's that the Oilers did play against and beat. I think the Oilers offense was unstoppable when at it's best. Gretzky's vision would have put the Oilers over the top IMHO.

When Gretz was at his peak you could almost not stop him as he could see players that you couldn't and had the ability to hit any hole you present to get them the puck. And with backstoping Fuhr provided, the defense didn't need to be the best. The Oilers were a team that set the record number of goals in a season and I think hold either 4 or 5 of the top positions in that list. I am not saying they would win for sure as the Habs were a fabulous team, but the Oilers were as well. Tough call
THe Habs weren't only about defense. They could score. It was the combination that was killer. In 76-77 the Habs scored 387 goals and only allowed 171. That's a goal differential of +216! Over and 80 game season that's nearly 3 goals per game better than the opposition.

The offensive powerhouse Oilers? In 83-84 the Oilers scored an incredible 446 goals. They allowed 314. The differential is only 132. Over 80 games it's a little less than 2 goals a game.

The Oilers were a great team, no question, but they weren't as devastating as that Habs team. And during their run the Habs would never lose to doormat teams 11-10 as the Oilers did. Individually the Oilers arguably had more talent, but as a team; top to bottom the Habs were better. The Oilers lost 25 games counting the playoffs that year. The Habs lost a grand total of 10 games, including the playoffs.

Malefic74 is offline  
Old
04-20-2005, 08:18 PM
  #22
KariyaIsGod*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malefic74
THe Habs weren't only about defense. They could score. It was the combination that was killer. In 76-77 the Habs scored 387 goals and only allowed 171. That's a goal differential of +216! Over and 80 game season that's nearly 3 goals per game better than the opposition.

The offensive powerhouse Oilers? In 83-84 the Oilers scored an incredible 446 goals. They allowed 314. The differential is only 132. Over 80 games it's a little less than 2 goals a game.

The Oilers were a great team, no question, but they weren't as devastating as that Habs team. And during their run the Habs would never lose to doormat teams 11-10 as the Oilers did. Individually the Oilers arguably had more talent, but as a team; top to bottom the Habs were better. The Oilers lost 25 games counting the playoffs that year. The Habs lost a grand total of 10 games, including the playoffs.
True. The odds are against the Oilers but who knows... Wayne Gretzky is the greates tplayer ever, he might have been able to put them over the top. Great players rise to the occasion and he may have done it. There's no stopping him so it'd be a question of how much the Habvs could slow him down..

KariyaIsGod* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.