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Carey Price destined to fail in Montreal?

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Old
08-31-2010, 10:04 PM
  #1
Andy
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Carey Price destined to fail in Montreal?

This post is largly inspired by the recent thread about Price supposedly ready to strike to get the money he is looking for and partly inspired by a point that both Whitesnake and Canadian_Brewtality brought up quite a while ago.

Is Carey Price destined to fail in Montreal solely based on everyone's perception that has been based on stuff speculated by the media?

After reading that thread it seemed to me that people are now looking for reasons to hate on Price. Has the damaged already been done? It looks like it and it's not even on these boards. My girlfriends 10 year old cousin and his friends already tell me that they "hate Carey Price" and when I ask them why, they respond by saying "I don't know, everyone hates him."

Do other people think this city is willing to give him a chance or do you think that everyone has already made up their minds in regards to Price?

When I read some posts, it looks like some people can't wait for him to fail or do something bad like sign a higher contract so that they can share their current feelings about Price.

It just seems really sad.

Important to note that this is just my perception of the situation and it doesn't necessarily mean that is what is happening. Also I would like to note that if your not ready to discuss the issue at hand and by that I mean not turning this into a Halak vs Price thread or a Gauthier is stupid thread or a Carey Price bashing thread please do us all a favor and just don't post in it.

Please mods leave this open and don't merge it with the Price strike thread and the actually premise of this post is quite different from the other thread and a whole other issue in and of itself.


Last edited by Andy: 08-31-2010 at 10:17 PM.
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Old
08-31-2010, 10:06 PM
  #2
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I'll have a string of victories and everything will be forgotten.

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08-31-2010, 10:11 PM
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Lars The GOAT Eller
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he had a rough season and its the offseason-in montreal.

Hes going to be the center of attention- who else is there to look at.

Btw im not a price or halak fanboy

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08-31-2010, 10:12 PM
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coolasprICE
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You are right.

I keep repeating myself but he needs a small market environment to flourish.

We can sit here and dissect if it's fair or not fair and point fingers at members of the media and fan groups -- but at some point we have to accept that this is REALITY of playing in Montreal.

Some people can make it here, others can't ... not you, or anyone on HF can change this reality.

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08-31-2010, 10:15 PM
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airlouche
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I think Price will have a great season, He's only 23 and I have faith in him.

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08-31-2010, 10:16 PM
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Canadian_Brewtality
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stop stealing my posts

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08-31-2010, 10:16 PM
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SonOfGom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
You are right.

I keep repeating myself but he needs a small market environment to flourish.

We can sit here and dissect if it's fair or not fair and point fingers at members of the media and fan groups -- but at some point we have to accept that this is REALITY of playing in Montreal.

Some people can make it here, others can't ... not you, or anyone on HF can change this reality.
That's just apologetics for idiots.

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08-31-2010, 10:17 PM
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Andy
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
stop stealing my posts
yah sorry, I also wanted to write that you inspired it also, but I couldn't remember your username. I'll add it in.

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08-31-2010, 10:18 PM
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Canadian_Brewtality
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yah sorry, I also wanted to write that you inspired it also, but I couldn't remember your username. I'll add it in.
finally i gets my respect

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08-31-2010, 10:19 PM
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uiCk
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
I'll have a string of victories and everything will be forgotten.
Pretty much, then

a) never hear of earl the troll

b) have same people criticizing price, voting him into all-stars

and the wheel keeps on turning

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08-31-2010, 10:19 PM
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That's just apologetics for idiots.
No, it's accepting reality. Very simple concept that needs to be understood.

The only hope for change relies within the organization -- not us, media, or my dog.

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08-31-2010, 10:21 PM
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Andy
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Pretty much, then

a) never hear of earl the troll

b) have same people criticizing price, voting him into all-stars

and the wheel keeps on turning
The problem is what happens when he has a bad run? All goalies in the league lose consecutive games. Let's say he doesn have a good run but follows it by a little bump in the road...will the fans be supportive and patient or will they get on his back immediatly based on previous conceptions of his character?

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08-31-2010, 10:22 PM
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SonOfGom
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-Living here is hard because half the people poop whenever and wherever they like, what should we do?

-Leave or accept reality.

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08-31-2010, 10:25 PM
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no but i am destined to start ignoring a few posters lol

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08-31-2010, 10:27 PM
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HabsHockey*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
This post is largly inspired by the recent thread about Price supposedly ready to strike to get the money he is looking for and partly inspired by a point that both Whitesnake and Canadian_Brewtality brought up quite a while ago.

Is Carey Price destined to fail in Montreal solely based on everyone's perception that has been based on stuff speculated by the media?

After reading that thread it seemed to me that people are now looking for reasons to hate on Price. Has the damaged already been done? It looks like it and it's not even on these boards. My girlfriends 10 year old cousin and his friends already tell me that they "hate Carey Price" and when I ask them why, they respond by saying "I don't know, everyone hates him."

Do other people think this city is willing to give him a chance or do you think that everyone has already made up their minds in regards to Price?

When I read some posts, it looks like some people can't wait for him to fail or do something bad like sign a higher contract so that they can share their current feelings about Price.

It just seems really sad.

Important to note that this is just my perception of the situation and it doesn't necessarily mean that is what is happening. Also I would like to note that if your not ready to discuss the issue at hand and by that I mean not turning this into a Halak vs Price thread or a Gauthier is stupid thread or a Carey Price bashing thread please do us all a favor and just don't post in it.

Please mods leave this open and don't merge it with the Price strike thread and the actually premise of this post is quite different from the other thread and a whole other issue in and of itself.
Once you realize that this is the dumbest hockey city, you stop caring about what everyone says. Hopefully Price has realized that already.

By dumb I mean every rumor, article, etc...in the past 7 years.

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Old
08-31-2010, 10:28 PM
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Andy
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no but i am destined to start ignoring a few posters lol
Was this a shot at me or people in generel. Again, I would really appreciate it if people would post with actual substance rather than just witty remarks that do absolutley nothing for the thread. It's not that hard to write nothing if you really don't have anything to say.

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08-31-2010, 10:36 PM
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I think all players have to avoid reading their own press...especially in MTL. The media in MTL creates a tempest in a teapot for every rumour they can think up..and it sells so they will keep doing it.

Players avoid getting too high (Jesus Price) or too low (ship that stiking ******* out of town). I think there is good leadership on the team and the players know they are accountable to their teammates, the coaches and to the organization. They are NOT accountable to the fans and thank god for that.

Price will be fine. The media will turn on someone else the moment he wins a few games and we'll have apologetic/sympathy posts for the next star to be targeted "Was Subban Rushed??/Eller is a Bust!!/Cammalleri lost his touch!!/etc

The media love the drama over the course of the season and fans seem starved for news so they make it up as they go along. Its a big soap opera...

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Old
08-31-2010, 10:38 PM
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Bob Cole
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i predict halak chants in the crowd by the first 5 home games

the whole situation is really sad

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Old
08-31-2010, 10:39 PM
  #19
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*excessively long and rambly and opinionated post coming up*

It's not Price's fault he's in this situation, it's Gainey's.

Honestly, others might disagree, Price had no business in the NHL at 19. He should've stayed in Hamilton one extra year with Halak backing up Huet, then he should've been brought up the year after, possibly in a tandem with Halak.

What happened instead was that he was brought up to backup Huet after his short stint in the AHL, and Huet was dealt to make room for Price despite the fact he hadn't significantly outplayed him (in fact, if I remember correctly, both had around the same numbers). Price was then handed the #1 job and Halak was brought up to back him up.

The problem lies there and stared there.

Things that are wrong with the above:

(a) Price didn't get enough experience in the AHL to graduate to the NHL. "Winning it all" at that level doesn't mean you're ready for the pros. Let him season for a little bit longer and leave Halak, who's played in the NHL before and deserves his shot after his solid 06-07 run, as the other goalie with Huet.
Again, this is simply my opinion on what should have gone down.

(b) Let's say the Habs decide to trade Huet (and they did) with Halak as the other goalie. He's dealt, and Price is called up. Price and Halak then proceed to fight for the #1 job just in time for the playoffs. Both are good candidates, and it the competition could only make them better.
What happened was that Price was backing up Huet, Huet was dealt, Halak was called up, and Price was given the #1 job. You could argue because he had been in the NHL and Halak hadn't that he deserved that role, but I beg to differ. Halak was, once again, having an exceptional season in the AHL. The Habs should've let them battle it out like I said. Hell, Price probably would have won with the way he played, but my point is, rather than announce Carey's your #1 guy after Huet is traded, don't announce a #1 guy, and let their play dictate it. Carey played well enough down the stretch to earn that #1 job, so I don't have any gripes about how that played out. I do have a problem with the fact it was him that made the team over Halak.

(c) Trading Huet created another problem. A lack of veteran presence, a guy to mentor Price/Halak (depending on which scenario you choose to follow above). You have two rookies, and one is your annointed #1, the other is your clear-cut backup, no threat to the annointed #1, yet not enough experience in the league to act as a mentor.

(d) After Price struggled in the Philadelphia series, it was clear it was too soon that we brought him up. Yes we couldn't score much on Biron, but Price was horrendous that series, and it took way too long to switch over to Halak to save Price some grace. Rather than make Price the #1 heading into 08-09, I still believe they should've let Halak challenge him for the role. He was no real threat, we all know that. Price was still the guy, no matter what. Management thought he'd grow into his role by facing adversity and struggling at times, but we should've shielded him better, protected him better. Price had an abysmal 2nd half to 08-09 (as did the team), following the All-Star Break.

And what does Gainey do?

He fires Carbo, takes over, benches Halak and rides Price all the way through a sweep against the B's. I still HATE the fact he did that and refused to play Halak, citing Price was a "thoroughbred". At a certain point, you have to realize that you risk ruining his mental game rather than strengthening it, and that's exactly what might've happend as a result of the Habs giving Price too much confidence and too little adversity.

Not to mention his Roy moment and all the rumours about his off-season escapades. A 20-21 year old living in Montreal alone, no one with him, no veteran around or anything...what more was going to happen? Did anyone just *expect* Price to be mature at that age all by himself? Of course not, you BECOME mature. Price matured by being benched last season in the playoffs, and I hope that's made him a more competitive and graceful person. Not that he wasn't even graceful, but just that we need to feel like he's not a kid anymore.


Price was brought up against Carbo's wishes as well, in 07-08, it's worth noting. This is Gainey's mess (and yes, it is a mess, regardless what you think of Price...his rep is shaky enough as it is and his play is inconsistent, painting a target on his back. That's not all his fault, not at all, he was brought up too early, given everything too quickly and not nurtured/protected enough.

Then, you go ahead and trade your playoff MVP and put all the pressure back on Price's shoulders, with, once again, no real guy to challenge him (a la Dan Ellis, Auld isn't going to win the #1 job unless Price is horribly bad, which I seriously hope he isn't, or else we're ****ed).

Then there's the media that's been on his back since his 08-09 season, all the hype, all the partying, the Roy moment, the whispers of immaturity in the locker room/being called out by his teammmates. All this has been building up to right now, to this possible holdout. It would be the worst thing he could possibly do, but honestly, do you really think he likes this city right now? Do you? Knowing that no matter what he does, he will get booed and he will get criticized.

There are expectations, and unless they're met, he will fail, like you say, Koseegin.

It's worth noting I always supported Halak in the "debate" (there wasn't one, really) last season, but I don't blame Price for any of this, I blame Bob Gainey...for all the good the man did with our revamped roster, he grossly mishandled Carey Price. The hype got to Bob, and that's why we're having this discussion in this thread today.

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Old
08-31-2010, 10:39 PM
  #20
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Its weird. Some fans, that dont like Price, have a mindset "Lets make Price's life misserable". The guy is extremely tallented, but i dont think with the Fans that dont like him & the Medias that will critize him on everything he does will let him fill in his potential. People think Carey is gona win us the Stanley Cup Alone. No he won't, hes going to be a part of a puzzel to hopefully win a Cup.

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Old
08-31-2010, 10:40 PM
  #21
Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
I think all players have to avoid reading their own press...especially in MTL. The media in MTL creates a tempest in a teapot for every rumour they can think up..and it sells so they will keep doing it.

Players avoid getting too high (Jesus Price) or too low (ship that stiking ******* out of town). I think there is good leadership on the team and the players know they are accountable to their teammates, the coaches and to the organization. They are NOT accountable to the fans and thank god for that.

Price will be fine. The media will turn on someone else the moment he wins a few games and we'll have apologetic/sympathy posts for the next star to be targeted "Was Subban Rushed??/Eller is a Bust!!/Cammalleri lost his touch!!/etc

The media love the drama over the course of the season and fans seem starved for news so they make it up as they go along. Its a big soap opera...
But do you think that the damage in regards to Price is image is already been done? Do you think it's reversable? I understand the drama, but I don't remember it being it particularily bad for one player. His imaged seems to be fairly tarnished almost Koivuesque. Brisebois had it bad and he had to leave for a couple of years for people to forget. That's what concerns me most is that no matter how well he does that as soon as he faulters people will return to these rumors to commence the bashing.

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Old
08-31-2010, 10:41 PM
  #22
uiCk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
The problem is what happens when he has a bad run? All goalies in the league lose consecutive games. Let's say he doesn have a good run but follows it by a little bump in the road...will the fans be supportive and patient or will they get on his back immediatly based on previous conceptions of his character?
Price will have to go out of his way to prove the haters wrong about their pre-made conceptions of his attitude based on a few emotional out bursts (LOL to the people who think they never did something idiotically humiliating purely on emotions and/or hormones between the ages of 19-23)

but people have short term memories, and if he and the team are winners, people will rather love then hate.

IMO hate has spread in correlation with bad economic times, i don't doubt that one bit.


and i highly agree with HabsHockey ,that on average, Montreal has the most dumbed out fan-base in hockey. Its over exposed and over politicized.

HF has alot more smarter/understanding fans, so i wouldn't call the average HFer dumb, but the average habs fan pretty clueless.


Last edited by uiCk: 08-31-2010 at 10:46 PM.
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08-31-2010, 10:46 PM
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finally i gets my respect
Well, it's from the thread starter, so don't get too excited.

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Old
08-31-2010, 10:51 PM
  #24
uiCk
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
*excessively long and rambly and opinionated post coming up*

It's not Price's fault he's in this situation, it's Gainey's.

Honestly, others might disagree, Price had no business in the NHL at 19. He should've stayed in Hamilton one extra year with Halak backing up Huet, then he should've been brought up the year after, possibly in a tandem with Halak.

What happened instead was that he was brought up to backup Huet after his short stint in the AHL, and Huet was dealt to make room for Price despite the fact he hadn't significantly outplayed him (in fact, if I remember correctly, both had around the same numbers). Price was then handed the #1 job and Halak was brought up to back him up.

The problem lies there and stared there.

Things that are wrong with the above:

(a) Price didn't get enough experience in the AHL to graduate to the NHL. "Winning it all" at that level doesn't mean you're ready for the pros. Let him season for a little bit longer and leave Halak, who's played in the NHL before and deserves his shot after his solid 06-07 run, as the other goalie with Huet.
Again, this is simply my opinion on what should have gone down.

(b) Let's say the Habs decide to trade Huet (and they did) with Halak as the other goalie. He's dealt, and Price is called up. Price and Halak then proceed to fight for the #1 job just in time for the playoffs. Both are good candidates, and it the competition could only make them better.
What happened was that Price was backing up Huet, Huet was dealt, Halak was called up, and Price was given the #1 job. You could argue because he had been in the NHL and Halak hadn't that he deserved that role, but I beg to differ. Halak was, once again, having an exceptional season in the AHL. The Habs should've let them battle it out like I said. Hell, Price probably would have won with the way he played, but my point is, rather than announce Carey's your #1 guy after Huet is traded, don't announce a #1 guy, and let their play dictate it. Carey played well enough down the stretch to earn that #1 job, so I don't have any gripes about how that played out. I do have a problem with the fact it was him that made the team over Halak.

(c) Trading Huet created another problem. A lack of veteran presence, a guy to mentor Price/Halak (depending on which scenario you choose to follow above). You have two rookies, and one is your annointed #1, the other is your clear-cut backup, no threat to the annointed #1, yet not enough experience in the league to act as a mentor.

(d) After Price struggled in the Philadelphia series, it was clear it was too soon that we brought him up. Yes we couldn't score much on Biron, but Price was horrendous that series, and it took way too long to switch over to Halak to save Price some grace. Rather than make Price the #1 heading into 08-09, I still believe they should've let Halak challenge him for the role. He was no real threat, we all know that. Price was still the guy, no matter what. Management thought he'd grow into his role by facing adversity and struggling at times, but we should've shielded him better, protected him better. Price had an abysmal 2nd half to 08-09 (as did the team), following the All-Star Break.

And what does Gainey do?

He fires Carbo, takes over, benches Halak and rides Price all the way through a sweep against the B's. I still HATE the fact he did that and refused to play Halak, citing Price was a "thoroughbred". At a certain point, you have to realize that you risk ruining his mental game rather than strengthening it, and that's exactly what might've happend as a result of the Habs giving Price too much confidence and too little adversity.

Not to mention his Roy moment and all the rumours about his off-season escapades. A 20-21 year old living in Montreal alone, no one with him, no veteran around or anything...what more was going to happen? Did anyone just *expect* Price to be mature at that age all by himself? Of course not, you BECOME mature. Price matured by being benched last season in the playoffs, and I hope that's made him a more competitive and graceful person. Not that he wasn't even graceful, but just that we need to feel like he's not a kid anymore.


Price was brought up against Carbo's wishes as well, in 07-08, it's worth noting. This is Gainey's mess (and yes, it is a mess, regardless what you think of Price...his rep is shaky enough as it is and his play is inconsistent, painting a target on his back. That's not all his fault, not at all, he was brought up too early, given everything too quickly and not nurtured/protected enough.

Then, you go ahead and trade your playoff MVP and put all the pressure back on Price's shoulders, with, once again, no real guy to challenge him (a la Dan Ellis, Auld isn't going to win the #1 job unless Price is horribly bad, which I seriously hope he isn't, or else we're ****ed).

Then there's the media that's been on his back since his 08-09 season, all the hype, all the partying, the Roy moment, the whispers of immaturity in the locker room/being called out by his teammmates. All this has been building up to right now, to this possible holdout. It would be the worst thing he could possibly do, but honestly, do you really think he likes this city right now? Do you? Knowing that no matter what he does, he will get booed and he will get criticized.

There are expectations, and unless they're met, he will fail, like you say, Koseegin.

It's worth noting I always supported Halak in the "debate" (there wasn't one, really) last season, but I don't blame Price for any of this, I blame Bob Gainey...for all the good the man did with our revamped roster, he grossly mishandled Carey Price. The hype got to Bob, and that's why we're having this discussion in this thread today.
Though i dont agree with all points (i do agree he was mis handled, though i like to put more weight on Cap and Salaries issues, concerning the huet and halak trades), i highly agree price doesnt have much to be blamed about.

good post, and i also agree there really wasnt much of a debate (halak vs price).

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Old
08-31-2010, 10:54 PM
  #25
Krautso
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But do you think that the damage in regards to Price is image is already been done? Do you think it's reversable? I understand the drama, but I don't remember it being it particularily bad for one player. His imaged seems to be fairly tarnished almost Koivuesque. Brisebois had it bad and he had to leave for a couple of years for people to forget. That's what concerns me most is that no matter how well he does that as soon as he faulters people will return to these rumors to commence the bashing.
I dont think price cares what the "people" think. I dont think any of the players do, in any city. We as fans like to think they do but they play for their teammates, competitive spirit, love of the game and....money. They don't play for the fans and arent accountable to us (or the media) in any way.

They boo price at the bell centre like a WWE villian because thats what entertains them. While I'm positive he takes his performance seriously, if his teammates and coaches support him I dont think he cares what anyone else really has to say. Nor should he.

As for whether it can be reversed? Winning cures everything.

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