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more pre-camp newsage. Lundqvist, Avery sound off

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Old
09-01-2010, 10:39 PM
  #1
n8
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more pre-camp newsage. Lundqvist, Avery sound off

http://rangers.nhl.com/club/news.htm...id=DL|NYR|home

edit: Eminger interview also - pretty run of the mill 1st interview.
http://rangers.nhl.tv/team/console.j...d=765&id=74883

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09-01-2010, 10:51 PM
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Good read.

Quote:
“I’d like to see us gain our identity back where we outworked other teams, weren’t intimidated by other teams, and won games,” Avery said.
Referring to the Renney-era?

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09-01-2010, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LoFFeN View Post
Good read.



Referring to the Renney-era?
I would think so--especially since Avery has only played for two coaches with the Rangers. And very honestly, it's not like the group of players here last seasons ever really played like a team.

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09-02-2010, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by LoFFeN View Post
Good read.

Referring to the Renney-era?
Hopefully he's referring to the time when he actually made a difference in games. Hopefully, that's #1 on his list of things to get back.

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09-02-2010, 01:50 AM
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Hopefully he's referring to the time when he actually made a difference in games.
exactly, the Renney era.

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09-02-2010, 02:31 AM
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Renney's system did wonders with Henke in nets and works well in the second season. I think the coach doesn't decide which players are signed, he just dresses the best club he can.

If the team got pushed around, the responsibility lies squarely on Slats plate, not Tom's. Herb Brook's smurfs were also pushed around a bit, but Bubba made sure it didn't get out of hand and NY won many of those kinds of games thus ensuring the rough and tumble tactics didn't pan out for the clubs that tried it.

Avery needs to focus on being an asset for NY because last year he was a major liability. I am honestly thinking he is cut which would mean that MZA or Kennedy make the team. If sean brings his A game then there is clearly a spot for him on the team, but talking and doing are two completely different things

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09-02-2010, 02:58 AM
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I recall Avery saying in an interview (appearing with Frolov?) that we'd see the old Sean Avery back this season.

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09-02-2010, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
I recall Avery saying in an interview (appearing with Frolov?) that we'd see the old Sean Avery back this season.
Its not the first time he's said it so i wouldn't get my hopes up just yet.

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Old
09-02-2010, 03:57 AM
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Noticed that Pavel Valentenko is at these workouts. Guess he's giving the NHL another shot.

Avery wasn't the only one having a subpar season. We're stuck with our captain for one because of his NMC but over 7 mil for 32 points only one more than Sean doesn't cut it either. The biggest issue with the team to my mind is the money spent on Drury and Redden which could have been much better spent in a variety of ways. These two are the albatrosses of the Rangers.

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09-02-2010, 04:29 AM
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Avery is not going to find his game with Tortorella behind the bench. What I saw last year was a coach that wasn't able to use his assets and tried to make players play roles in the only system he knew. Half the team looked completely lost for most of the season.

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09-02-2010, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Tank View Post
Avery is not going to find his game with Tortorella behind the bench. What I saw last year was a coach that wasn't able to use his assets and tried to make players play roles in the only system he knew. Half the team looked completely lost for most of the season.
It doesn't take one season to go from a conservative system like Renney's to a high powered one like Tortorella's (or at least the one he wants to play). Systems take time to get used to and the fact this team hasn't been completely overhauled like last year is a big reason why I think this team will be a bit better because familiarity with the system Tortorella wants to play will be a bit higher.

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09-02-2010, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Black Tank View Post
Avery is not going to find his game with Tortorella behind the bench. What I saw last year was a coach that wasn't able to use his assets and tried to make players play roles in the only system he knew. Half the team looked completely lost for most of the season.
i enjoy reading your comments. we happen to see things similarly.

ill add only this, and ive said before..... torts still lives in the past. the game has passed him by. his game plans, or lack thereof, and his in game strategy- or lack thereof, consists of running the gaby line out every other shift pretty much and then playing them on every power play.

he over plays his studs to the point of ineffectiveness.

he over plays his role players in situations where they cannot succeed.

and he under plays his 4th line causing stress on his top 9.

the guy simply seems to have failed to adapt. while renney wasnt perfect, he certainly understood what he needed to do to compete. renney devloped a competitive system around the players he had.....while torts seems to be stuck in the idea that his system will dictate the roles the players will play.

hes got it bassackwards.

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09-02-2010, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Noticed that Pavel Valentenko is at these workouts. Guess he's giving the NHL another shot.

Avery wasn't the only one having a subpar season. We're stuck with our captain for one because of his NMC but over 7 mil for 32 points only one more than Sean doesn't cut it either. The biggest issue with the team to my mind is the money spent on Drury and Redden which could have been much better spent in a variety of ways. These two are the albatrosses of the Rangers.

If you were Pavel Valentenko and you looked at our blue line, wouldn't you be giving the NHL another shot?

I want this guy on the bottom pair, I've been saying it all off season. So I was excited when he decided to come back over.

I'd rather not watch Gilroy's garbage again. Eminger is not magically going to find it after all this. The organization for some reason is just not high on Sauer.

-------------------------

I agree with your second point as well. The issue is people don't look at those as one thing effecting the other. Avery did not have a great year last year, but by no means was he awful for us or even one of our main issues.

Unfortunately people don't seperate things like you did and understand that. They just lump it all together.

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09-02-2010, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
I recall Avery saying in an interview (appearing with Frolov?) that we'd see the old Sean Avery back this season.
I hope they don't pass that rule that a penalty must be served 2 minutes, regardless of how many goals are scored on it.

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09-02-2010, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
It doesn't take one season to go from a conservative system like Renney's to a high powered one like Tortorella's (or at least the one he wants to play). Systems take time to get used to and the fact this team hasn't been completely overhauled like last year is a big reason why I think this team will be a bit better because familiarity with the system Tortorella wants to play will be a bit higher.
Tortorella stopped even trying to implement his system. There's no way that anyone here who watched this team last season could say for one second that this was a Torts high powered offense.

He tried it, we got burned, and then he said to himself, "boy, that Renney was right. I see what he was getting at now." Then Torts pulled everyone back.

People can sit here and try and act like he did this slightly differently or that slightly differently, but the bottom line is, Tortorella realized the same thing we all already knew. The New York Rangers were not talented enough to play that type of game, and he needed to scale things wayyyy back.

I agree with your familiarity comment as far as players and chemistry.

I'm not sure I can say the same about Torts' system, because I'm not even sure what the hell Torts' system is.

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09-02-2010, 08:16 AM
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I hope they don't pass that rule that a penalty must be served 2 minutes, regardless of how many goals are scored on it.
Yeah, I mean, if officials actually called things fair on Avery we'd have a powerplay more than half the game!

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09-02-2010, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
i enjoy reading your comments. we happen to see things similarly.

ill add only this, and ive said before..... torts still lives in the past. the game has passed him by. his game plans, or lack thereof, and his in game strategy- or lack thereof, consists of running the gaby line out every other shift pretty much and then playing them on every power play.

he over plays his studs to the point of ineffectiveness.

he over plays his role players in situations where they cannot succeed.

and he under plays his 4th line causing stress on his top 9.

the guy simply seems to have failed to adapt. while renney wasnt perfect, he certainly understood what he needed to do to compete. renney devloped a competitive system around the players he had.....while torts seems to be stuck in the idea that his system will dictate the roles the players will play.

hes got it bassackwards.
its obvious you're one of the Renney sympathizers.

I seem to remember the 4th Line of Anisimov,Shelly and Prust being rolled rather consistently for the last part of the season.It was the only line other than the 1st line that started to produce at that point.

early in the season...he had no choice but to give the 1st line the bulk of the minutes because no other line was doing anything.

I would say it was players like Drury, Boyle, Avery and a rotating cast of PA Parenteau, Voros & Lisin who failed to do anything on the bottom 3 lines through-out the early part of the season. Even Byers & Locke had their chances. No one stepped up to the plate to give the bottom lines a boost (i.e. Drury). The injury to Dubi didn't help matters either. Even our boy Cally was struggling a bit, especially when on a line with our captain.


Last edited by Blazephr: 09-02-2010 at 08:24 AM.
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Old
09-02-2010, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
I recall Avery saying in an interview (appearing with Frolov?) that we'd see the old Sean Avery back this season.
Avery and Frolov were very exciting on the PK together in LA. it was not that often, but man they were awesome.

It should have been a pairing used more.

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09-02-2010, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
its obvious you're one of the Renney sympathizers.

I seem to remember the 4th Line of Anisimov,Shelly and Prust being rolled rather consistently for the last part of the season.It was the only line other than the 1st line that started to produce at that point.


early in the season...he had no choice but to give the 1st line the bulk of the minutes because no other line was doing anything.

I would say it was players like Drury, Boyle, Avery and a rotating cast of PA Parenteau, Voros & Lisin who failed to do anything on the bottom 3 lines through-out the early part of the season. Even Byers & Locke had their chances. No one stepped up to the plate to give the bottom lines a boost (i.e. Drury). The injury to Dubi didn't help matters either. Even our boy Cally was struggling a bit, especially when paired up with our captain.

What does that have anything to do with it?

And grasping at straws much? Using a fourth line with Anisimov in the middle because his season was slipping away and he wasn't able to get anything out of the rest of his team.

I have no issue with people who think that Tortorella deserves more time, but there is no way that any one can defend his performance last season.

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09-02-2010, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by LoFFeN View Post
Good read.



Referring to the Renney-era?
Has to be.

Granted Torts hasn't had spectacular rosters to work with either, but before the last half of the season Renney got fired, he got his teams to work hard and overachieve a lot of the time. Evidenced by playoff appearances in every full season he coached the Rangers.

Under Tortorella they had a great stretch of 20 games at the begining of the season, and were lackluster the rest of the way.

Maybe the lack of scoring depth caught up with them not only in the outcome of games but psychologically(confidence and moral) and physically as well? Could be.

They look, on paper, to have some more depth in skill this year. Maybe that will help boost confidence. And maybe now with so much depth on the lower lines they will play harder knowing their job won't be secure.

More youth injection year after year is also another remedy for lackluster play. Young players are hungry, haven't earned their big payday yet, and are always fighting for their job security.

We know Torts isn't afraid to rely on young and inexperienced players. And that's a very good thing. I just hope he can find a way to get more out of his veteran group (looking at you Redden and Drury).

All this said, I still don't know if we are a playoff team again, just yet. They will need to overachieve again the way Renney's teams did (overall).

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09-02-2010, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
its obvious you're one of the Renney sympathizers.

I seem to remember the 4th Line of Anisimov,Shelly and Prust being rolled rather consistently for the last part of the season.It was the only line other than the 1st line that started to produce at that point.

early in the season...he had no choice but to give the 1st line the bulk of the minutes because no other line was doing anything.

I would say it was players like Drury, Boyle, Avery and a rotating cast of PA Parenteau, Voros & Lisin who failed to do anything on the bottom 3 lines through-out the early part of the season. Even Byers & Locke had their chances. No one stepped up to the plate to give the bottom lines a boost (i.e. Drury). The injury to Dubi didn't help matters either.
ill be honest, i wasnt a renney fan at all. atleast at the end anyway. once i felt the team had tuned him out - after that horrible dallas game, i felt he was a dead coach walking so to speak. and at that point, i felt a change was needed.

as far as renney the person, i think hes an awesome guy and a terrific coach. he was always polite and handled himself with class and a high degree of professionalism. he was just in over his head here with a veteran laden team and limited talent.

as for torts, i dont think theres any question he over played his hand last season leading to exhaustion and ineffectiveness of his top line players. using that 4th line last year against teams out of the playoffs and playing out the season means nothing. his horses were spent. they had nothing left. your best players dont stop being your best players unless they are hurt or spent.

oh, and that line being our best line at the end of the year in a playoff push was down right embarrasing.

again, you create a system around the players you have rather than trying to make them play a system that once worked for you 10 years ago.


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Old
09-02-2010, 02:58 PM
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Tortorella stopped even trying to implement his system. There's no way that anyone here who watched this team last season could say for one second that this was a Torts high powered offense.

He tried it, we got burned, and then he said to himself, "boy, that Renney was right. I see what he was getting at now." Then Torts pulled everyone back.

People can sit here and try and act like he did this slightly differently or that slightly differently, but the bottom line is, Tortorella realized the same thing we all already knew. The New York Rangers were not talented enough to play that type of game, and he needed to scale things wayyyy back.

I agree with your familiarity comment as far as players and chemistry.

I'm not sure I can say the same about Torts' system, because I'm not even sure what the hell Torts' system is.
And this is what I agree with. He did let up on the gas. He had no choice. Basically he thought he had the horses and even though they got out of the gate real fast his horses lost the pace pretty early on and knowing what many of us already knew about the player personnel the team had it didn't take a lot of rocket science to figure that it was bound to happen. He seemed to have to learn all that the hard way--and that's when all the tantrums started--someone might take a penalty and he'd blow his top even over undeserved ones. A bit more control would be nice and let up on the reporters after the game as well. The Bobby Knight act is pretty stupid--does nothing for anyone.

He seems to have had some ignorance as to what his individual players are capable especially the teams prospects. He needs to get up to speed on that. Saying he doesn't know anything about somebody his organization might be seriously counting on in the futre is not good enough.

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09-02-2010, 03:02 PM
  #23
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I think it's pretty naive to think Tortorella isn't familiar with the teams prospects. Him saying " I don't know much about (that guy)" doesn't mean he has no clue about the players stats and strengths. I do think Tortorella likes to see players in person before he comments on them, though

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09-02-2010, 03:15 PM
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Although I'm not sure who would actually take him, I believe that Avery is definitely on the hot seat this training camp with players like Prust, Kennedy, and Weise looking to fill his role a bit. No one can do what Avery does when he is on, but we paid him $2M last year to do squat. I think he is in trouble and I could definitely see Sather dealing him to remove his presence from the locker room.

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09-02-2010, 03:21 PM
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Although I'm not sure who would actually take him, I believe that Avery is definitely on the hot seat this training camp with players like Prust, Kennedy, and Weise looking to fill his role a bit. No one can do what Avery does when he is on, but we paid him $2M last year to do squat. I think he is in trouble and I could definitely see Sather dealing him to remove his presence from the locker room.
Hmm 5th on the team in points (forwards), got screwed just about every game by officials, had a coach who absolutely blamed everything on him.

Avery's only problem was he wasn't SEAN AVERY every single night. He would've finished with more points than our $7 million Captain if he didn't end his season early.

Remember, this is the same guy who messed up his spleen and did EVERYTHING for this team a year and half prior.

How quickly we all forget.

Not to mention no one will trade for him because they'd have to take his full $4 million cap hit. Get a clue.

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