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Old
09-01-2010, 06:05 PM
  #26
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
The only differences were the length and Kovalchuk's age at the end of the contract.
If you look at that way then basically every contract out there, whether it be two years or 17 years, is basically the same. The age and length are two very big parts of the contract.

The league gets to determine when a contract gets too egregious and they obviously decided that the line in the sand is right around the Hossa contract.

If you actually believe that the initial Kovalchuk contract was somehow comparable to other contracts out there then just looks at this article.

http://www.behindthenethockey.com/20...s-contract-was

There's no way that any person with knowledge on the subject can look at me with a straight face and say that the initial Kovalchuk contract had any comparable out there.

Quote:
I don't really think the PA had much of a choice.
There's no way to know that, but even if that were true, who gives a ****? The NHLPA agreed to extend it and we have to wait two extra days. Two days. Big ****ing whoop.

Quote:
I also don't care about where Kovalchuk ends up, but the whole process has been ugly.
I think the process has been handled fine.

If you want to blame someone for dragging this whole thing out and making it "ugly" then the blame should be directed at Kovalchuk and the Devils. Kovalchuk is the one who won't settle for anything less then 100 mil apparently and the Devils are the ones who keep sending in contracts that are putting the NHL in the spot-light. Hell, even Lou Lamiorello admitted that he thought the first contract would get rejected yet he sent the contract in anyway.

Quote:
Potential only gets you so far. San Jose is in a position to win now and hoping and praying on a tandem of Nitty and Greiss is nearly as awful as hoping and praying on a tandem of Leighton and Boucher.
Niitty and Greiss are legitimate NHL goalies and are both have the potential to be starters (albeit, a small potential in Niitty's case). That's more then can be said for Leighton and Boucher.

Quote:
If I was a Sharks fan, I'd feel better about my goaltending situation today than I did yesterday... and clearly I'd be in the minority on HFBoards.
Niemi is an average starter. Greiss is a good backup with potential to be a starter. Niitty is a good backup/pseudo-starter. Whatever upgrade they made is a slight upgrade and it'll probably be at the cost of both cap space and Greiss since they now have to get rid of someone.

As long as you admit that you're in the minority here, I have no qualms with what you're saying though.

Quote:
The only suspect part of the San Jose line up is offense from their defense. It's not stand out defensive core, but it's a lot better than even their own fan base is giving it credit for. I'm in the minority here, too, but I stand firm in my belief that they'll be fine with what they have.
Their goalies are average to below average, their defense is flat-out bad, and their offense is well-rounded, but nothing special when compared to some of the top offenses out there.

I've been saying it all summer long, the Sharks are getting massively overrated and are just getting the benefit of the doubt in this upcoming regular season just like the Devils and Red Wings always do. I can't even remember if I expect the Sharks to be a playoff team or not.

Again, as long as you're admitting that you're in the minority here, I'm okay with what you're saying.

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Old
09-01-2010, 06:25 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
If you look at that way then basically every contract out there, whether it be two years or 17 years, is basically the same. The age and length are two very big parts of the contract.

The league gets to determine when a contract gets too egregious and they obviously decided that the line in the sand is right around the Hossa contract.

If you actually believe that the initial Kovalchuk contract was somehow comparable to other contracts out there then just looks at this article.

http://www.behindthenethockey.com/20...s-contract-was

There's no way that any person with knowledge on the subject can look at me with a straight face and say that the initial Kovalchuk contract had any comparable out there.
Good breakdown.

(semantics warning) It's still similar. The writer even suggests that a 15-year contract instead of a 17-year contact, for the same amount, would be accepted based on past contracts. That's not a huge difference, given the length.


Quote:
I think the process has been handled fine.

If you want to blame someone for dragging this whole thing out and making it "ugly" then the blame should be directed at Kovalchuk and the Devils. Kovalchuk is the one who won't settle for anything less then 100 mil apparently and the Devils are the ones who keep sending in contracts that are putting the NHL in the spot-light. Hell, even Lou Lamiorello admitted that he thought the first contract would get rejected yet he sent the contract in anyway.
I do blame the Devils, especially Lou, but the NHL gets my thumbs down, too.


Quote:
Niitty and Greiss are legitimate NHL goalies and are both have the potential to be starters (albeit, a small potential in Niitty's case). That's more then can be said for Leighton and Boucher.

Niemi is an average starter. Greiss is a good backup with potential to be a starter. Niitty is a good backup/pseudo-starter. Whatever upgrade they made is a slight upgrade and it'll probably be at the cost of both cap space and Greiss since they now have to get rid of someone.

As long as you admit that you're in the minority here, I have no qualms with what you're saying though.

Their goalies are average to below average, their defense is flat-out bad, and their offense is well-rounded, but nothing special when compared to some of the top offenses out there.

I've been saying it all summer long, the Sharks are getting massively overrated and are just getting the benefit of the doubt in this upcoming regular season just like the Devils and Red Wings always do. I can't even remember if I expect the Sharks to be a playoff team or not.

Again, as long as you're admitting that you're in the minority here, I'm okay with what you're saying.
For the goalie argument, we'll have to agree to disagree; I like Niemi as their starter, given that they want to win now.

As for the defense....

The Sharks defense only has one hole from last season, a season where they appeared in their first Western Conference Final. They lost Blake, which will hurt much more in the locker room than on the blueline at this stage in his career.

Amongst the rest of the core, they don't have to spread around too many minutes, except on the powerplay. Six guys are used to playing more than 15 minutes per game and Blake averaged 21 minutes last year. It's not a 'knock you off your socks' top six, but it's more well-rounded than it gets credit for.

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Old
09-01-2010, 10:44 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
So, what the hell is going on in PHX?
There's your answer:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=5521316

Quote:
The Phoenix Coyotes have another interested buyer, sources told ESPN.com.

Matthew Hulsizer, CEO of PEAK6 Investments is in the final stages of negotiating a new arena lease agreement with the City of Glendale after which Hulsizer is expected to make an offer to purchase the Coyotes from the NHL, multiple sources have confirmed to ESPN.com.

The emergence of the Chicago-based financier and former collegiate hockey player comes at a time when negotiations between Ice Edge Holdings, a group of Canadian and American investors who have been pursuing the team for more than a year, and Glendale officials have stalled.

Although Hulsizer could not be reached for comment, sources familiar with the businessman and situation in Phoenix believe he may be the answer to the NHL's search for a viable owner.

In fact a number of sources said he represents the last, best chance to keep this team in Arizona.

"He has an unbelievable financial mind," one source that has known Hulsizer for years told ESPN.com.

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Old
09-02-2010, 06:24 AM
  #29
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Chelios finally retired, at the age of 103. He's been dead for 14 years now, still played.






(It's actually 48).

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Old
09-02-2010, 08:04 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
There's no way that any person with knowledge on the subject can look at me with a straight face and say that the initial Kovalchuk contract had any comparable out there.
The fiscal distribution across the years of the contract were almost DEAD ON the Hossa contract as far as the % of money at various stages of the contract, just more years involved. You can say that makes Kovalchuk's contract a bridge too far, but it certainly makes 'em comparable. Kovalchuk's contract was merely a scaled up version of Hossa's.

In other news, Holy War, if this hasn't been posted:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devil...6I4E4y7xGbE1OP

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Old
09-02-2010, 08:06 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
In my world, which isn't always in reality, I kill the whole thing. I don't allow any contract between Kovalchuk or the Devils. If they can't come to an agreement after 3 or 4 tries, then they can't come to a deal that isn't in some way circumventing the salary cap. This whole saga and shenanigans, is it really worth it? The whole situation deviates from the game that is supposed to be the ultimate team sport. The players are going to have continue to have this follow them the whole season if not beyond. He's only going to have the bar raised for himself because of all of this. Take the two away from either other. Everyone else plays by the rules, they clearly cannot.
...they were playing by the rules. Arbitrator actually specifically said they didn't break any one rule, but argued that it was the spirit of the thing in its entirety that was problematic.

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Old
09-02-2010, 09:05 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The fiscal distribution across the years of the contract were almost DEAD ON the Hossa contract as far as the % of money at various stages of the contract, just more years involved. You can say that makes Kovalchuk's contract a bridge too far, but it certainly makes 'em comparable. Kovalchuk's contract was merely a scaled up version of Hossa's.

In other news, Holy War, if this hasn't been posted:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devil...6I4E4y7xGbE1OP
The league is a joke. Seriously. Why the heck would the NHLPA accept those terms when there is already a CBA that works more in their favor. The NHL is out of place making demands like that, and if that ultimatum is actually true, I'd rule in NHLPA's favor as an arbitrator because of how bush league the move is.

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09-02-2010, 09:12 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by might2mash View Post
The league is a joke. Seriously. Why the heck would the NHLPA accept those terms when there is already a CBA that works more in their favor. The NHL is out of place making demands like that, and if that ultimatum is actually true, I'd rule in NHLPA's favor as an arbitrator because of how bush league the move is.
I agree that it's idiotic to go about it like this... rather than just dealing with it all in the next CBA. However, I do like the 40 y/o thing. The 5-year contract thing is idiotic, though.

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Old
09-02-2010, 09:26 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I agree that it's idiotic to go about it like this... rather than just dealing with it all in the next CBA. However, I do like the 40 y/o thing. The 5-year contract thing is idiotic, though.
I think it also makes sense really, but I don't think it's something that will be done outside of future CBA negotiations.

The way I understand it is that current contracts would all be grandfathered if accepted, it's just ones signed from now until the end of the CBA.

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Old
09-02-2010, 09:58 AM
  #35
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i guess the kovalchuk contract was strike three.

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Old
09-02-2010, 11:42 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post

The Sharks signing Niemi doesn't make sense. They had two legitimate NHL goalies already signed, both of which were as good or almost as good as Niemi. Then they have Stalock in the system still.

Plus it leaves them with no cap space to make any more moves.
Greiss belongs in the AHL. He isnt that good. I have seen him enough when he was in Worcester. he is average at best.

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Old
09-03-2010, 10:28 AM
  #37
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Mike Comrie signed a one-year, $500K contract with the Pens.

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Old
09-03-2010, 11:08 AM
  #38
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Greiss belongs in the AHL. He isnt that good. I have seen him enough when he was in Worcester. he is average at best.
Most Sharks fans would disagree with you there, no offense. He proved last year that he was a backup and he had a pretty impressive outing in the Olympics. Now they either have to put him on waivers or move one of their other two goalies. Which is why the signing doesn't make sense.

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Old
09-03-2010, 02:11 PM
  #39
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Kovalchuks contract approved.

Devils look good on paper with Arnott, Parise, Kovalchuk, Volchenkov, Tallinder, Elias, Brodeur, Zajac, Clarkson. They have some talent. May lose Zubrus or Langenbrunner, not a big deal.

Probably their best lineup since 95-99?


Last edited by Kaktus*: 09-03-2010 at 02:25 PM.
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Old
09-03-2010, 02:37 PM
  #40
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Now they need to hope fatso doesnt slow down after playing 72 games a year and can actually do something in the playoffs

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09-03-2010, 02:45 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by flyersguy33 View Post
Now they need to hope fatso doesnt slow down after playing 72 games a year and can actually do something in the playoffs
They signed a decent back up. You could even say that Devils back up is better then our starter(s).

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09-03-2010, 02:46 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
They signed a decent back up. You could even say that Devils back up is better then our starter(s).
Yea, forgot they signed Hedberg. But hes only good when he plays against the flyers.

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Old
09-03-2010, 02:54 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Kovalchuks contract approved.

Devils look good on paper with Arnott, Parise, Kovalchuk, Volchenkov, Tallinder, Elias, Brodeur, Zajac, Clarkson. They have some talent.

Probably their best lineup since 95-99?
I don't think Arnott or Brodeur are big pluses. both of them are pretty far up there in age. Brodeur looked flat-out unimpressive last year despite his Jennings win and Arnott has had decreasing point totals the last three years and, if you look at his career, he always misses around 20 games, give or take about 10 and he's never PPG. So, Arnott is a decent secondary scorer, but not someone that's going to push you over the top into a contender.

I think they have a better backup this year, but I'm not scared of facing Brodeur at all anymore. I don't even think he's top five anymore.

They replaced Martin with Volchenkov and Tallinder. That makes their depth a bit better, but they don't have a number one d-man and they don't have any really talented offensive d-men. If they move Salvador to clear room for Kovalchuk then they replaced Martin and Salvador with Volchenkov and Tallinder. That's a down-grade.

We have to wait and see how Kovalchuk plays. During his NHL career he's never had to share the spotlight or buy into a system that made him rely on his teammates. I'm just interested if he's going to continue to be the one-dimensional player that he is and try to be the "Kovalchuk show" every time he's on the ice like last playoffs.

I think they're going to be regular season dynamos, per the usual, but I don't think they're contenders. They might actually get out of the first round this time, but they won't win anything I think.

Don't get me wrong, I think they have a core that could win them a championship down the road with this Kovalchuk signing, but I think they're quickly becoming the most overrated team for next year.

I mean, they're legendary starter is about to turn 39 and looked unimpressive last year. Couple that with the facts that they don't have a true number one d-man or a true number one center and I don't think they're an impressive team. The only things they have going for them are fantastic LW depth (what team tries to win by building through the wing?), a good farm system, and a good reputation.


Last edited by Garbage Goal: 09-03-2010 at 03:01 PM.
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Old
09-03-2010, 05:05 PM
  #44
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it would be ball-splittingly hilarious to me if kovalchuk blew out his knee in the first regular season game.

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Old
09-03-2010, 05:18 PM
  #45
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RT @DarrenDreger: 5 years now defines a long-term contract.

RT @DarrenDreger: 35 yr old player signs 7 yr deal, the first 5 yrs of determine aav. Cap hit in year 6 + 7 would be actual value of his deal in those yrs.



Hockey players are the toughest players in sports. But when it comes to business they're sure scared of their own shadow.


Granted that 95% of the league won't ever see a 5-year contract.

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Old
09-03-2010, 06:25 PM
  #46
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^ More info...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=332542

Quote:
Sources tell TSN that the NHL and the NHL Players’ Association have reached an agreement on an amendment to the rules that govern long-term contracts.

The two sides have also agreed to extend the 5pm et deadline to complete the paperwork involved with the Ilya Kovalchuk contract situation.

The amendments addresses two specific rules which only apply to long-term contracts (contracts defined as five years or longer).

First: For long-term contracts extending beyond the age of 40, the contract’s average annual value for the years up to and including 40, are calculated by dividing total value in those years by the number of years up to and including 40. Then for the years covering ages 41 and beyond, the cap charge in each year is equal to the value of the contract in that year....

Secondly, for long-term contracts that include years in which the player is 36, 37, 38, 39 and 40; the amount used for purposes of calculating his average annual value is a minimum of $1 million in each of those years (even if his actual compensation is less during those seasons).

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Old
09-04-2010, 10:07 AM
  #47
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I was never ever to find a definitive answer about Bartulis' situation.

Can the Flyers send him down w/o passing thru waivers?

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Old
09-04-2010, 10:15 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
I was never ever to find a definitive answer about Bartulis' situation.

Can the Flyers send him down w/o passing thru waivers?
They can't ... definitely.

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Old
09-04-2010, 12:25 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Frisco, Tex - Dallas Stars General Manager Joe Nieuwendyk announced today that right wing Jonathan Cheechoo has accepted an invitation to attend the Dallas Stars’ training camp for a tryout.
http://www.kuklaskorner.com/

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09-04-2010, 12:28 PM
  #50
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Clarke is behind Hull and Dionne at all-time #16s:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=5...id=rss-kreiser

Quote:
16 -- Brett Hull

It's not easy to outscore your father when dad was a 600-goal man, but Brett Hull did just that, finishing his career with 741 goals, the third-highest total in NHL history. That includes 226 goals in a three-year span with St. Louis and 86 in 1990-91, the most by anyone not named Wayne Gretzky. Brett didn't have his father's booming slapper, but he had a knack for finding the open spot on the ice and getting his shot off in the blink of an eye.
Runner-up: Marcel Dionne

Also in the mix: Pat LaFontaine, Bobby Clarke, Henri Richard, Michel Goulet

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