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Hawerchuk almost a Hab

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Old
09-02-2010, 10:08 AM
  #26
habs93
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So the so called trade choices for Chelios was either Savard or Hawerchuk - What a surprise The Habs took the French Canadian over an English Canadian.......Not

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09-02-2010, 10:12 AM
  #27
Alfie Turcotte
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I remember clearly the day "we" traded Chelios for Savard. I was so angry.

2nd badest trade after the Roy-Keaner one. #3 being Desjardins-Leclair.

Chelios was such a warrior.
Hawerchuk would have been a fair return.

Just to think about that trade makes me feel bad. Aaaarrrrrgh...

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09-02-2010, 10:34 AM
  #28
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20 years have gone by since that summer of 1990 when Chelios was traded for Denis Savard and Phil Houseley was traded for Hawerchuk. And 20 years latter I still can't understand why the Canadiens gave the best defenceman and did not receive the best foward.

I'm not saying that over their respective careers I wouldn't have chosen Savard over Hawerchuk. But at the time of the trade, if you really wanted to trade one of the best defenceman in the league, be it Chelios or Houseley, Hawerchuk was better than Savard who had started to slow down in Chicago.

And Chelios, with his defence and the physical play he brought to the game, was clearly better than Houseley.

All this as it may be, Denis Savard gave the Canadiens some beautiful goals, and gave me great emotions.

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Old
09-02-2010, 12:08 PM
  #29
Pascal
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Meh, it's not like Savard was a 3rd line plumber.. If you want to harp about a trade for the next decade keep bringing up the Roy one.. *puke*

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Old
09-02-2010, 02:30 PM
  #30
Mad Habber
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Originally Posted by A Zen Master View Post
Maybe so, but we won the cup with Denis! numbers aren't everything, just look at Josh Gorges...
Check my post again. We actually won the cup without Denis.

I agree that numbers aren't everything, but as I stated, Hawerchuk was the best player for Buffalo during that series. The Habs won in 4. All 4 games ended with identical scores of 4 to 3. 3 of which went to overtime. Without Hawerchuk, those games aren't that close. The Sabres were already missing LaFontaine and Mogilny.

If you check Savard's stats again, he had 0 goals and 5 assists in a total of 14 games. Hardly a great contribution for an offensive player.

Josh Gorges is a great example of a player who is much more valuable than his stats. But for a player like Savard who is counted on to add offense at the expense of defense, his value is greatly diminished when he isn't putting points on the board. Which obviously had something to do with the reason Denis was dispatched to Tampa Bay in the off-season.

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09-02-2010, 04:10 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
Check my post again. We actually won the cup without Denis.

I agree that numbers aren't everything, but as I stated, Hawerchuk was the best player for Buffalo during that series. The Habs won in 4. All 4 games ended with identical scores of 4 to 3. 3 of which went to overtime. Without Hawerchuk, those games aren't that close. The Sabres were already missing LaFontaine and Mogilny.

If you check Savard's stats again, he had 0 goals and 5 assists in a total of 14 games. Hardly a great contribution for an offensive player.

Josh Gorges is a great example of a player who is much more valuable than his stats. But for a player like Savard who is counted on to add offense at the expense of defense, his value is greatly diminished when he isn't putting points on the board. Which obviously had something to do with the reason Denis was dispatched to Tampa Bay in the off-season.
Mogilny left in game 2 and Lafontaine in game 3 though. This is always something Sabre fans like to bring up, as if they would've been us if not for these things oh and IF Fuhr didn't suck in the series and had a bad groin. Well, if they didn't have Hasek in 98... see, two can play that game. Anyway, Savard was declining but look at his totals the 3 seasons before the Habs took him on.

1989-90: 80 pts. in 60 games
1988-89: 82 pts. in 58 games
1987-88: 131 pts. in 80 games

He was supposed to provide well over a point per game but other than 91-92 didn't do much. If anything the two seasons before we got him proved, it was that he was becoming injury prone.

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Old
09-02-2010, 10:05 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
That would of been better than the other deal we got and it wouldn't cost Keane as well.
Yeah it would have been way better.

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Old
09-02-2010, 11:14 PM
  #33
Not The One
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Originally Posted by habs93 View Post
So the so called trade choices for Chelios was either Savard or Hawerchuk - What a surprise The Habs took the French Canadian over an English Canadian.......Not
The so called draft choices in 1980 were either Doug Wickenheiser or Denis Savard. What a surprise, the Habs took the French...

Ooops, never mind.

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Old
09-03-2010, 12:48 AM
  #34
Rhiessan71
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I listened to the interview, basically Savard told Chelios that he had two choices, Chicago for Savard or Winnipeg for Hawerchuk.
Savard was leaning towards the Chicago deal but if Chelios had a problem with it, if it would be too much pressure, he also had the choice of Winnipeg.
Chris said he had no problem going to Chicago what so ever, it was fantastic to go back home so Serge finished the deal.

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Old
09-03-2010, 06:02 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
Dale was Buffalo's best player in the series against the Habs in 93. Would have been interesting to see him as a Hab. Both got traded the same year for defensemen. Phil Housley in Hawerchuk's case.

Denis Savard
1990-91 Montreal Canadiens NHL 70 28 31 59
1991-92 Montreal Canadiens NHL 77 28 42 70
1992-93 Montreal Canadiens NHL 63 16 34 50
1993-94 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 74 18 28 46
1994-95 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 31 6 11 17
1994-95 Chicago Blackhawks NHL 12 4 4 8
1995-96 Chicago Blackhawks NHL 69 13 35 48
1996-97 Chicago Blackhawks NHL 64 9 18 27
After trade - GP 460 - G 122 - A 203 - Pts 325
1993 Playoffs 14 0 5 5 (14 out of 20 games-injured for finals)

Dale Hawerchuk
1990-91 Buffalo Sabres NHL 80 31 58 89
1991-92 Buffalo Sabres NHL 77 23 75 98
1992-93 Buffalo Sabres NHL 81 16 80 96
1993-94 Buffalo Sabres NHL 81 35 51 86
1994-95 Buffalo Sabres NHL 23 5 11 16
1995-96 St. Louis Blues NHL 66 13 28 41
1995-96 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 16 4 16 20
1996-97 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 51 12 22 34
After trade - GP 475 - G 151 - A 341 - Pts 492
1993 playoffs 8 5 9 14

After looking at the numbers, would definitaly had prefered Dale to Denis.
Definitely

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Old
09-03-2010, 07:45 AM
  #36
habs93
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
The so called draft choices in 1980 were either Doug Wickenheiser or Denis Savard. What a surprise, the Habs took the French...

Ooops, never mind.




At the time of the draft Wickenheiser was the number one pick of most scouts in The NHL - A big centre who could score & The Habs had not had a big centre since Pete Mahovlich was traded only when Wickenheiser had some injury problems etc that the experts in hindsite came out saying Montreal should have drafted Savard who was having sucess in Chicago. To this day The Habs are still looking for that big centre who can score like alot of teams in The NHL..........

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Old
09-03-2010, 08:32 AM
  #37
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I think Savard could have had similar numbers had he the chance to play with Mogilny. IMO, that's the biggest influence on Dale's numbers in Buffalo.

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Old
09-03-2010, 09:25 AM
  #38
Not The One
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Originally Posted by habs93 View Post
At the time of the draft Wickenheiser was the number one pick of most scouts in The NHL - A big centre who could score & The Habs had not had a big centre since Pete Mahovlich was traded only when Wickenheiser had some injury problems etc that the experts in hindsite came out saying Montreal should have drafted Savard who was having sucess in Chicago. To this day The Habs are still looking for that big centre who can score like alot of teams in The NHL..........
I know what happened in 1980. I was commenting on your earlier post, which was absurd, especially considering the situation now and the fact that Savard helped win the cup in '93. What's the problem, too many frenchies on that cup run for you?

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Old
09-03-2010, 09:40 AM
  #39
La Grosse Tendresse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs93 View Post
So the so called trade choices for Chelios was either Savard or Hawerchuk - What a surprise The Habs took the French Canadian over an English Canadian.......Not
Wow... What a stupid thing to say...

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Old
09-03-2010, 09:45 AM
  #40
gee
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woulda been great - better if they had done it before the 88 draft and gave Winnipeg a package that got their 1st round pick. TEEEMMMUUUU

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Old
09-03-2010, 11:08 AM
  #41
Mad Habber
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Originally Posted by Hab-a-maniac View Post
Mogilny left in game 2 and Lafontaine in game 3 though. This is always something Sabre fans like to bring up, as if they would've been us if not for these things oh and IF Fuhr didn't suck in the series and had a bad groin. Well, if they didn't have Hasek in 98... see, two can play that game. Anyway, Savard was declining but look at his totals the 3 seasons before the Habs took him on.

1989-90: 80 pts. in 60 games
1988-89: 82 pts. in 58 games
1987-88: 131 pts. in 80 games

He was supposed to provide well over a point per game but other than 91-92 didn't do much. If anything the two seasons before we got him proved, it was that he was becoming injury prone.
I do remember Mogilny playing a bit against us that series and getting injured. I don't remember LaFontaine. I'll take your word for it. My point was still that Hawerchuck was the best Sabre in that series and without him, the score probably isn't that tight for all the games.

I'm just saying I would have prefered Hawerchuk back then, and the numbers after both were traded prove it. (Although, you never know, a freak injury could occur at anytime, or not and either way it affects the numbers.)

I went back and looked at their respective playoff numbers after the trades
1990-91 Montreal 13 2 11 13
1991-92 Montreal 11 3 9 12
1992-93 Montreal 14 0 5 5
1993-94 Tampa 0 0 0 0
1994-95 Tampa 0 0 0 0
1994-95 Chicago 16 7 11 18
1995-96 Chicago 10 1 2 3
1996-97 Chicago 6 0 2 2
Total 70 13 40 53

1990-91 Buffalo 6 2 4 6
1991-92 Buffalo 7 2 5 7
1992-93 Buffalo 8 5 9 14
1993-94 Buffalo 7 0 7 7
1994-95 Buffalo 2 0 2 2
1995-96 Philly 12 3 6 9
1996-97 Philly 17 2 5 7
Total 59 14 38 52


Last edited by Mad Habber: 09-03-2010 at 11:25 AM.
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