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Future Nordiques to get nearly free building, what about us?

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Old
09-06-2010, 10:07 AM
  #26
L'abstrait
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As long as the Feds pay part of the bill, it won't be too bad. I'm sure that whoever is in power in Quebec, they would go forward with the Nouveau Colisée. It's a smaller market, therefor, it's normal that they need more support than Montreal. Seriously, good luck Quebec city. See you in 2012.

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09-06-2010, 10:21 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Tax payer money has been wasted in much bigger amounts and for much dumber things - the canadian firearms registry for one or even the Bastarache commission.

I've also personally wasted money on silly things, bought channels I never watched, bought food I never ate, etc.

If I could give 100$ bucks over 10 years for the habs to have their rivals back, I'd do it without a second thought. Heck, I'd do it for the jets too.

I can't really say I am going to lose sleep over it as a hockey fan. Give/lend 'em all the money they need I say.
Meh, not my real concern. It's a matter of more than ourselves. A loan I understand, a 400 million subsidy I'd rather not do. There is no promise for the olympics or an NHL team in quebec by 2012...or ever. Who's to say quebec city doesn't get rejected for olympics till 2052? or that the league doesn't expand or relocate, but folds some of the markets? What if canadian dollar goes down, established teams will be in ****, imagine QC city. It's a 400 million risk IMO. I'd rather have a tenant in that arena. If, say for instance, we had an AHL team in QC city, then already I'm happy we have a tenant, but as of now, that arena can remain without a professional team for a while. That's just stupid IMO. I have no issue to pay my share in taxes for the olympics or an NHL team in quebec...however, there's no real promise any of these happen. We could spend 400 million on an empty arena. That bothers me.

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09-06-2010, 10:25 AM
  #28
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Qc has 400M to invest in this??..

How about fixing the freaking road for good dammit!

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09-06-2010, 10:33 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
woo!


PS: I think you got something for the Olympic Stadium.
Yeah a billion dollars in municipal debt and forty years of extra taxation for a building the entire city hates to this day. Real solid comparison you made there.

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09-06-2010, 10:36 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Asamu View Post
That's good news for Quebec City citizens. I'm pretty sure that Quebecor will pay the full value of the arena but the government wants to help in order to speed up things. Also, they know that they will have the money back anyway in a couple of years.

Hunh? Will Quebecor pay the full value or will the governmetn have the money back in a couple of years from tax revenue? Cause they're not the same thing at all. Frankly if the gov't puts up 400 million for a building Quebecor then owns, then that's free money to Quebecor. Period.

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09-06-2010, 10:39 AM
  #31
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"They are throwing away our hard-earned money".

Yeah, thats it.

Because when they do get an NHL team (and I personally guarantee within 2 years of this arena completion, if not before, they will have one) they can generate all sorts of tax income off of:

-Concerts
-Concessions
-NHL Franchise Staff employees
-NHL Franchise Players
-NHL Gate revenues
-Increase tourism to the city by NHL fans/players spending their money in hotels/restaurants.
-The trickle down effect to the media, newspapers, stores.

Anyone who thinks the government doesn't benefit from this down the road has absolutely no concept of how this works. The only concern is if they do not get an NHL team, but with so many NHL teams on poor footing currently it just seems logical you will see 1 or 2 move to Canada in the near future with Quebec/Winnipeg almost guaranteed to be the destinations.

I'm all for this project. I want just to have our rivals back, enough of this faux Leafs rivalry.

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09-06-2010, 10:42 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Hunh? Will Quebecor pay the full value or will the governmetn have the money back in a couple of years from tax revenue? Cause they're not the same thing at all. Frankly if the gov't puts up 400 million for a building Quebecor then owns, then that's free money to Quebecor. Period.
???? Quebecor is not going to own the arena. The city will.

The province is paying for the F1, OSM, Stade Uniprix, Al's stadium, Impact's stadium, Olympic Stadium, etc. Let's not act like Montreal was never given anything...


Last edited by tiredman: 09-06-2010 at 10:48 AM.
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09-06-2010, 10:54 AM
  #33
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Lol, Montréal already get its fair share of money. Now, when the Turcot complex will have to go down...

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09-06-2010, 10:54 AM
  #34
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I'm no statistician/accountant, but are they sure this is worth the investment? Let's say the government spends 400M (are they lending it or giving it?) and an NHL team comes here and struggles for 10 years before finally making a profit. Where is the arena going to be located? There's no room in Vieux Québec, would it go in St-Foy? Québec city is huge on tourism, are tourists going to spend 80-120 bucks for tickets to a game or a concert in this new complexe? Montreal has 4 times the population of Québec city, but it's greatest ally in making money with the Canadiens is the history, the new team won't have that. On top of all that aren't they not allowed to be called the Nordiques? They'll be the Québec Frontenacs or something like that (just an arbitrary name), people won't be going to the games for the history because there isn't much of it.

There's a crapload of question marks, I hope that they're not rushing into a losing venture.

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09-06-2010, 10:57 AM
  #35
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The government didn't pay for the (then) Molson Center, but they did pay for the MLS bid, the Saputo Stadium expansion, the Alouettes stadium expansion, the F1 race, the NASCAR race, the new roof for Olympic Stadium, and the tennis stadium. And that's just for sports in Montreal. It's just a shame they refused to finance the Expos' new stadium. It's only fair that it's Quebec City's turn. Plus, they need a new buliding NHL team or not, Le Colisée is just too old and has to be replaced. And the new building will eventually be used in an Olympic bid (they don't have to bid for the Olympics right away, the GM Place was 15 years old when it hosted the 2010 Olympics).

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09-06-2010, 10:59 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Ellerection View Post
"They are throwing away our hard-earned money".

Yeah, thats it.

Because when they do get an NHL team (and I personally guarantee within 2 years of this arena completion, if not before, they will have one) they can generate all sorts of tax income off of:

-Concerts
-Concessions
-NHL Franchise Staff employees
-NHL Franchise Players
-NHL Gate revenues
-Increase tourism to the city by NHL fans/players spending their money in hotels/restaurants.
-The trickle down effect to the media, newspapers, stores.

Anyone who thinks the government doesn't benefit from this down the road has absolutely no concept of how this works. The only concern is if they do not get an NHL team, but with so many NHL teams on poor footing currently it just seems logical you will see 1 or 2 move to Canada in the near future with Quebec/Winnipeg almost guaranteed to be the destinations.

I'm all for this project. I want just to have our rivals back, enough of this faux Leafs rivalry.
lol, how do people who think the government doesn't benefit not know how it works? Personally, I know how it works, but you're just assuming we'll get another NHL team. A guarantee of 1 or 2 years, which makes this even more reason for me to wonder where you're coming from. We may not get another canadian team at all, let alone 1-2 years. Do you buy winter tires and hope someone gives you a free car? That's pretty much what this is. There has been talks with the NHL, we all know that, but there has also been interest in keeping phoenix where it is. The NHL's last resort is relocation, so please don't assume that we'll be icing a new team within 2 years, that's just absurd. A lot of teams have leases with the city and can't break the lease without significant monetary issues arising. Not to mention, the NHL set the standard that there IS a large relocation fee. It's an investment. We see it as a hockey team, but if the price isn't right, people don't 'buy it anyway'. It's big money here, investors and owners didn't get rich paying whatever they have to. We'll see how it goes and all I'm saying you can't just assume we'll get an olympic bid or an NHL team. Winnipeg has a brand new arena, they didn't get ****.

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09-06-2010, 11:03 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2010/...report_quebec/

"The report states that Charest will then announce that the province will put up $400 million to help pay for the facility."

If this is true, the Quebec government will but up 400 million$ to help facilitate the city of Quebec to build an arena. I understand part of the goal is to attract a future Winter Olympics to the city. The government is always a major player in that. But part of the goal (if not the main goal) is to attract an NHL franchise. That's great.

Now what is the Government of Quebec going to do to help the Montreal Canadiens? do we get assistance of any kind? By the way, the Bell Centre (originally the Molson Centre) was ENTIRELY paid for by Molson Breweries. Not one penny of public money. Looks like Quebecor (likely the future owners of a future Nordiques team) get a free building.

It would be nice to see some equality by the Government. What can they do for us?
If the Feds start gifting every pro team just to balance things out, I think as a taxpayer my head will explode

The Habs own the Bell. Perhaps the Feds buy some new drapes?

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Old
09-06-2010, 11:11 AM
  #38
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Never agree with the use of taxpayer money to build something like this. Unless the NHL says, yes you will get a team for sure once this arena is built, then I do not see the use.

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Old
09-06-2010, 11:26 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
lol, how do people who think the government doesn't benefit not know how it works? Personally, I know how it works, but you're just assuming we'll get another NHL team. A guarantee of 1 or 2 years, which makes this even more reason for me to wonder where you're coming from. We may not get another canadian team at all, let alone 1-2 years. Do you buy winter tires and hope someone gives you a free car? That's pretty much what this is. There has been talks with the NHL, we all know that, but there has also been interest in keeping phoenix where it is. The NHL's last resort is relocation, so please don't assume that we'll be icing a new team within 2 years, that's just absurd. A lot of teams have leases with the city and can't break the lease without significant monetary issues arising. Not to mention, the NHL set the standard that there IS a large relocation fee. It's an investment. We see it as a hockey team, but if the price isn't right, people don't 'buy it anyway'. It's big money here, investors and owners didn't get rich paying whatever they have to. We'll see how it goes and all I'm saying you can't just assume we'll get an olympic bid or an NHL team. Winnipeg has a brand new arena, they didn't get ****.
Fundamental shift in global economics have changed the outlook.

I'm not going to give you an elongated post as to why the teams moved in the first place, because we all know it's mostly the effect of the (at the time) very low Canadian dollar coupled with sky-rocketing player salaries.

The MTS opened in 2004. Right after the latest round of NHL expansion. Not exactly very good timing. Using this as an example is terrible, because it was not until recently that our dollar has had buying power again, player salaries appear to be stabilizing finally and now we're finally seeing that US markets in the south especially are VERY sensitive to how well the product on the ice is. While this is true for all the markets, a Canadian market will support it's product better through the tough times because we are far more passionate about our game.

The NHL appears to be accepting this fate (slowly) but they will not have a choice if teams like Phoenix, Atlanta and Florida continue to bleed money every year. The rich teams are supporting them, it won't go on forever.

I said two years after completion of the project, it's going to take like 3-4 years minimum to complete this project. You realise this right?

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Old
09-06-2010, 11:38 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Hugh Ellerection View Post
Fundamental shift in global economics have changed the outlook.

I'm not going to give you an elongated post as to why the teams moved in the first place, because we all know it's mostly the effect of the (at the time) very low Canadian dollar coupled with sky-rocketing player salaries.

The MTS opened in 2004. Right after the latest round of NHL expansion. Not exactly very good timing. Using this as an example is terrible, because it was not until recently that our dollar has had buying power again, player salaries appear to be stabilizing finally and now we're finally seeing that US markets in the south especially are VERY sensitive to how well the product on the ice is. While this is true for all the markets, a Canadian market will support it's product better through the tough times because we are far more passionate about our game.

The NHL appears to be accepting this fate (slowly) but they will not have a choice if teams like Phoenix, Atlanta and Florida continue to bleed money every year. The rich teams are supporting them, it won't go on forever.

I said two years after completion of the project, it's going to take like 3-4 years minimum to complete this project. You realise this right?
I misread the time frame, my bad.

Still, i'm not convinced. With the CBA having to be renegotiated soon, who knows what changes will be made. For a true investor there's a lot of uncertainty. In any case, there are owners of southern teams who remain there for now. Phoenix might get sold soon and remain in phoenix. Until there's a reason to feel optimistic, I don't see why there is a real legit chance we are first in line or in the NHL's plans at all. We have had a team, bettman has gone on record saying winnipeg and QC city are teams that if we had to relocate, he'd like to fix what happened but what if canadian dollar drops in 5-6 years as u suggest? No investor would touch that.

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09-06-2010, 11:43 AM
  #41
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Stupid gouvernment... Yes it would be fun to have the nordiques back again but I would rather see them but their money somewhere else.

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09-06-2010, 11:51 AM
  #42
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Government POV
1.Build an arena
2.Bring the Nordiques back so all the province is focusing on this
3.?????
4.PROFIT.

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09-06-2010, 11:56 AM
  #43
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I would be happy to see the Nords back, I think it would be a huge plus for hockey fans in Canada and especialy for the eastern part of the country. But it's true that I don't live in Quebec so I don't care on where and what their money is spent over there.

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09-06-2010, 11:58 AM
  #44
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You got a Formula 1 paid by the goverment
A brand new roof coming up for the big O
A brand new 200M venue for the Montreal Symphonic orchestra
A brand new festival place near place des arts

Quebec city is just deciding to invish their gov money into a new arena instead of others cultural projects

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09-06-2010, 11:59 AM
  #45
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Don't know if anyone mentioned this, but we get the Nordiques back in the province, which ought to distract some of the crazy purelain media, and they can stoke that team with nothing but Franco Canadiens.

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Old
09-06-2010, 12:02 PM
  #46
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Great read on the subject.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1696680/

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Old
09-06-2010, 12:03 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I misread the time frame, my bad.

Still, i'm not convinced. With the CBA having to be renegotiated soon, who knows what changes will be made. For a true investor there's a lot of uncertainty. In any case, there are owners of southern teams who remain there for now. Phoenix might get sold soon and remain in phoenix. Until there's a reason to feel optimistic, I don't see why there is a real legit chance we are first in line or in the NHL's plans at all. We have had a team, bettman has gone on record saying winnipeg and QC city are teams that if we had to relocate, he'd like to fix what happened but what if canadian dollar drops in 5-6 years as u suggest? No investor would touch that.
I can assure you the Canadian dollar will not drop in relation to the US dollar any time soon. The days of a .60-.80 cent dollar are over... It would take a considerable shift in monetary policy by the Bank of Canada which seems quite content with the current level. Our economy is on far more solid ground then the Americans mostly in thanks to our vast natural resources. This makes our dollar highly attractive to foreign investors, and it will continue to be for the forseeable future. It would take something on a global scale, like disaster or war to change this.

I agree with that you say that it's gamble, that there is some uncertainty. There almost always is in the world of finances. My personal opinion is that a team would fare much better in Quebec then in Atlanta, for instances.


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Old
09-06-2010, 12:07 PM
  #48
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Before construction there needs to be proof that industry will be buying the luxury boxes. Everyone of them should be pre-sold. Same for season tickets -- 65% of all seats should be pre-sold.

I have my doubts whether or not there's enough big industry to support a team in Quebec.

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09-06-2010, 12:18 PM
  #49
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i didn't see anyone complain when the government invested millions in the OSM, Just for Laugh, Jazz Fest, the Canadian Grand Prix and the parc Jarry.
It's been a long time since Quebec City didn't get major subventions for a sport/art venue and if you went to the Colisée, you'd realize that Quebec has to have a new amphitheatre for an Olympics application, concerts or sporting events, even if the Nordiques dont come back. The only difference it makes is that instead of building a new arena with about 15,000 places (like the MTS Center in Winnipeg), they'll be building something with 19,000 places in it to comply with the NHL standards

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09-06-2010, 12:20 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Before construction there needs to be proof that industry will be buying the luxury boxes. Everyone of them should be pre-sold. Same for season tickets -- 65% of all seats should be pre-sold.

I have my doubts whether or not there's enough big industry to support a team in Quebec.
I think the group '' J'ai ma place'' already sold all their boxes to industry and business

I'm not 100% sure...

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