I'd find it hard to believe that anyone on the Devils' roster (other than Brodeur and Kovalchuk) is not available especially since they're roughly $3M over the cap. You can't dump $3M by trading away the 3rd and 4th liners.
Havlat for Kovalev???
Mach9's ..... uhhh I mean Mach 24's contract is a little scary.. If he gets hurt again there will be no turning back
That said, He is one of my favorite Senators of all time thanks to what he did when healthy... but thats a chunk of cash and term to commit to when Kovalev's contract is off the books July 1.
Havlat for Kovalev somehow would be ridiculous. Marty was one of my all time favorites, and we gave this guy up in his prime for a bag of pucks. If we could get him back by trading something reasonable I would be all for it, he was a game breaker.
The injuries are concerning, but its worth the gamble I would say with the lack of top end forwards we will have after Alfie is gone.
Havlat for Kovalev - Nope.
I like Havlat too, but we can't take on the term of the contract at this point.
Let Kovalev walk after this season (probably into retirement), and lets spend the money on a top tier forward.
I don't understand this at all. Havlat is a top tier forward IMO and is a ppg player. You want us to sign a top tier forward? That forward would have to want to sign with us or else we will be overpaying probably in both dollars and term. Which would in the end most likely be a lot worse than Havlat's contract, we're not getting a top tier UFA forward cheaply and on a short term contract no less. Furthermore, I can't see the Nhl approving more retirement contracts. I can understand the worry with Havlat's injury history and I'll concede that point, I just really think that there is a lot flawed logic in what you want to happen.
I don't understand this at all. Havlat is a top tier forward IMO and is a ppg player. You want us to sign a top tier forward? That forward would have to want to sign with us or else we will be overpaying probably in both dollars and term. Which would in the end most likely be a lot worse than Havlat's contract, we're not getting a top tier UFA forward cheaply and on a short term contract no less. Furthermore, I can't see the Nhl approving more retirement contracts. I can understand the worry with Havlat's injury history and I'll concede that point, I just really think that there is a lot flawed logic in what you want to happen.
Kovalev makes $5 million dollars.
You can get a top-tier player for $5 million dollars.
You conceded that he's had injury problems.
Would you be willing to hold on to that risk until he's 34?
BTW, he has 450 points in 543 regular season games. Not a PPG player.
Kovalev makes $5 million dollars.
You can get a top-tier player for $5 million dollars.
You conceded that he's had injury problems.
Would you be willing to hold on to that risk until he's 34?
BTW, he has 450 points in 543 regular season games. Not a PPG player.
Logic!
So he has roughly a 0.84 ppg average over his career but more importantly to me since the lockout he has been over a ppg when it matters most. His lack of output last year had a lot more to do with the lack of offensive support that he had than talent or injury, plus I think he is more suited to the style of play in the east. I did concede he had injury problems, would I be willing to take the risk? Not sure. I'm not really debating the the injury factor, more that Havlats contract is pretty reasonable for a UFA yet you say we can't commit to that. If you want to sign a top tier UFA at the end of the season the fact is you're going to have to commit to that player more if they are better, maybe even they are the same talent level. Like Fuhr said, every year people get excited about the upcoming UFA crop but half of them don't get there. I will be very surprised if you see anyone of Havlat's age and skill level Sign signing for a vastly cheaper contract unless it has a significant longer term and vice versa.
So he has roughly a 0.84 ppg average over his career but more importantly to me since the lockout he has been over a ppg when it matters most. His lack of output last year had a lot more to do with the lack of offensive support that he had than talent or injury, plus I think he is more suited to the style of play in the east. I did concede he had injury problems, would I be willing to take the risk? Not sure. I'm not really debating the the injury factor, more that Havlats contract is pretty reasonable for a UFA yet you say we can't commit to that. If you want to sign a top tier UFA at the end of the season the fact is you're going to have to commit to that player more if they are better, maybe even they are the same talent level. Like Fuhr said, every year people get excited about the upcoming UFA crop but half of them don't get there. I will be very surprised if you see anyone of Havlat's age and skill level Sign signing for a vastly cheaper contract unless it has a significant longer term and vice versa.
I'm not saying Havlat isn't a good player. I think he's a really good player.
When you look at a contact, you look at dollars, and term. I like the dollars, and hate the term. I believe it's been noted here before that Murray went after Havlat before he signed in Minny. Why did he end up going to Minny? The term of the contact. Murray wanted to sign him for 2 years, and he wanted longer. Is he more enticing to Murray a year later? I don't think so.
Do I think we can get a good UFA at $5 million that can be a solid top-6 forward? Hell Yeah.
Here's a quick list I just found from the Sporting News of UFA forwards that were signed.
I've listed the guys that I believe are 2nd line players, or at the least very good 3rd line players, that could be tweeners. Obviously not the best crop, but it was the year of the defenceman....
-- Olli Jokinen, C, Calgary, $6 million, two years
-- Saku Koivu, C, Anaheim, $5 million, two years
-- Guillaume Latendresse, LW, Minnesota, $5 million, two years
-- Martin St. Louis, RW, Tampa Bay, $22.5 million, four years
-- Alex Tanguay, LW, Calgary, $1.7 million, one year
-- Ray Whitney, LW, Phoenix, $6 million, two years
I'm not saying Havlat isn't a good player. I think he's a really good player.
When you look at a contact, you look at dollars, and term. I like the dollars, and hate the term. I believe it's been noted here before that Murray went after Havlat before he signed in Minny. Why did he end up going to Minny? The term of the contact. Murray wanted to sign him for 2 years, and he wanted longer. Is he more enticing to Murray a year later? I don't think so.
Do I think we can get a good UFA at $5 million that can be a solid top-6 forward? Hell Yeah.
Aware of the facts you are presenting, however, i just believe you aren't going to get a player as talented as him in free agency for a contract that is any better with respect to term or dollars. The risk lies totally with the injury factor, for that reason you could argue he's sort of being paid 6.5 a year if you think he will only play 65-70 games a season. In your original post however you argued that we can't afford the term, but a big name free agent will come with a term most likely pretty much the same. Let's just agree you don't want to commit to a player long term who has an significant injury.
... Let's just agree you don't want to commit to a player long term who has an significant injury...
Agreed. Which is why I wouldn't sign him...
But I still think we can get a top-6 player for $5 million. Anyone that is thinking $6-$7 million range is thinking 1st line player only. The Sens don't necessary need that when replacing Kovalev.
Now go to bed man...what the heck, are you working a night shift...
Here's a quick list I just found from the Sporting News of UFA forwards that were signed.
I've listed the guys that I believe are 2nd line players, or at the least very good 3rd line players, that could be tweeners. Obviously not the best crop, but it was the year of the defenceman....
-- Olli Jokinen, C, Calgary, $6 million, two years
-- Saku Koivu, C, Anaheim, $5 million, two years
-- Guillaume Latendresse, LW, Minnesota, $5 million, two years
-- Martin St. Louis, RW, Tampa Bay, $22.5 million, four years
-- Alex Tanguay, LW, Calgary, $1.7 million, one year
-- Ray Whitney, LW, Phoenix, $6 million, two years
No, he's the exception, but still signed at JUST over $5 million, and is an elite player.
Which furthers my point that we can get a quality player for $5 million.
At the same time St. Louis probably took a "home town discount" to stay in TB.
But I still think we can get a top-6 player for $5 million. Anyone that is thinking $6-$7 million range is thinking 1st line player only. The Sens don't necessary need that when replacing Kovalev.
Now go to bed man...what the heck, are you working a night shift...
It's only 6pm where I am haha. Fair enough, just from your riginal post I was thinking you were targeting a first line player
But I still think we can get a top-6 player for $5 million. Anyone that is thinking $6-$7 million range is thinking 1st line player only. The Sens don't necessary need that when replacing Kovalev.
Longer term, we're looking to offset the loss of Alfredsson, not Kovalev. Havlat is an excellent player to do that and if a rumoured asking price was relatively low, avoiding higher valued assets... that's a move that Ottawa should be making. We're unlikely to do better on the UFA market. Do you know who is a UFA in the $5M range that is available this summer? ... Kovalev. He'll of course make less, but he's a perfect example of typical UFA signings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by senskin
So he has roughly a 0.84 ppg average over his career but more importantly to me since the lockout he has been over a ppg when it matters most. His lack of output last year had a lot more to do with the lack of offensive support that he had than talent or injury, plus I think he is more suited to the style of play in the east. I did concede he had injury problems, would I be willing to take the risk? Not sure. I'm not really debating the the injury factor, more that Havlats contract is pretty reasonable for a UFA yet you say we can't commit to that. If you want to sign a top tier UFA at the end of the season the fact is you're going to have to commit to that player more if they are better, maybe even they are the same talent level. Like Fuhr said, every year people get excited about the upcoming UFA crop but half of them don't get there. I will be very surprised if you see anyone of Havlat's age and skill level Sign signing for a vastly cheaper contract unless it has a significant longer term and vice versa.
He had a very slow start last season, but was back near a PPG for his last 40-50 games.
He's a dynamic 70 game/ 65 point player, with lots of playoff exprience & recent production signed for the next 5 years at $5M and he's only 29. He'd be perfect for a good price.
Longer term, we're looking to offset the loss of Alfredsson, not Kovalev. Havlat is an excellent player to do that and if a rumoured asking price was relatively low, avoiding higher valued assets... that's a move that Ottawa should be making. We're unlikely to do better on the UFA market. Do you know who is a UFA in the $5M range that is available this summer? ... Kovalev. He'll of course make less, but he's a perfect example of typical UFA signings.
He had a very slow start last season, but was back near a PPG for his last 40-50 games.
He's a dynamic 70 game/ 65 point player, with lots of playoff exprience & recent production signed for the next 5 years at $5M and he's only 29. He'd be perfect for a good price.
trentmccleary....you lost me when you said a good replacement for Alfie was Havlat? WOW!
When Alfie retires, we'll need a lot more than a Havlat type player to pick up the load.
But I understand how most Sens fans work, they are stuck in the past and want Chara, Redden, Hossa, Havlat all back...and magically we will win the Cup...
If I have $5 million to spend next year, I'm going the UFA route, the RFA route...I'll find someone.
Most people here think $5 million can only get 3rd line production....I laugh at that notion..
