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Chelios trade was a decision made by the Molson family

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Old
09-07-2010, 04:54 PM
  #26
Carbo N8
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Originally Posted by Stank Mahovlich View Post
Savard for Chelios was one of those hindsight good deals. If the Habs don't deal Chelios, I don't think they win that Cup in '93. Not that Savard makes the team better than Chelios, just that the right mix of cause and effect took place to get the Cup.

Kind of like when Feaster picked up Fedotenko for the 4th overall. It was a horrible deal value-wise, but Fedotenko scored the Cup-winning goal for Tampa.
You could be right, but, it's also possible that with Chelios we might have won #25 in the meantime.

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09-07-2010, 05:32 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
So we get an older Savard for about 210 games, just long enough to get him his Stanley Cup

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8451146

Chicago gets a future HOF defenseman who plays another 16 seasons

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8446053

It was pretty uneven exchange. We took a beating to get that specific name
Yes that's fine and dandy, but Savard went on to win a cup with Mtl even if he was injured and not a huge factor, while Chelios doesn't until Detroit days.

At the end of the day, after that deal, MTL one cup CHI none.

Also, with the crappy management later in place, there's no question they would have moved Chelios as they got rid of everybody but I strongly doubt they would have gotten anything better.

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09-07-2010, 06:52 PM
  #28
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You all shouldn't complain too much

Savard was still decent with you

Look at how the Hawks handed Chelios to Wings ,, Now that is a horrendus deal

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09-07-2010, 08:20 PM
  #29
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One of their worst decisions, chelios aside, was going with Grundman over Bowman. I will not understand that one till the day I die.
Grundman??!!??!!?? Really!?!?!

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09-07-2010, 08:29 PM
  #30
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One of their worst decisions, chelios aside, was going with Grundman over Bowman. I will not understand that one till the day I die.
Grundman??!!??!!?? Really!?!?!
Any of us over 40 are still in therapy over that one...

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09-07-2010, 08:32 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes that's fine and dandy, but Savard went on to win a cup with Mtl even if he was injured and not a huge factor, while Chelios doesn't until Detroit days.

At the end of the day, after that deal, MTL one cup CHI none.

Also, with the crappy management later in place, there's no question they would have moved Chelios as they got rid of everybody but I strongly doubt they would have gotten anything better.
Well you don't really seem bothered by it, but frankly we got hosed

Chicago, Chelly, Savard. Everybody except Montreal finished ahead on the deal

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09-07-2010, 08:34 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Any of us over 40 are still in therapy over that one...
You too?

God, and some people think the Halak trade was bad...

Carbo, Leclair, Roy, Desjardins, Lemieux, Corson, on and on.

Corson and Chelios were party animals, but so what. (Although that story about those two flipping a car and Corson breaking his foot the night before the playoffs, and then trying to pretend that he got hurt in the game, is pretty crazy.)


Last edited by tinyzombies: 09-07-2010 at 08:40 PM.
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Old
09-07-2010, 08:37 PM
  #33
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One of their worst decisions, chelios aside, was going with Grundman over Bowman. I will not understand that one till the day I die.
Grundman??!!??!!?? Really!?!?!
If you read Beliveau's book, it goes into that one a bit more. I think it was there that I read about it. Bowman was a pretty eccentric dude when he was coaching the Canadiens. He'd go upstairs every couple games and ask for big changes. The Canadiens were run by a group of people including Beliveau, Curry, and Grundman by the end of Pollock's tenure. That's why they didn't put Bowman in charge.

In hindsight, maybe Bowman was right. The team was in the process of a long dynasty. They needed fresh bodies at some point. We don't know who he wanted gone tho.

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09-07-2010, 09:12 PM
  #34
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If you were Ronald Corey and Chelios did what he did, you would trade him too.

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09-07-2010, 09:14 PM
  #35
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If you were Ronald Corey and Chelios did what he did, you would trade him too.
id rather keep him close for my revenge...

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09-07-2010, 09:51 PM
  #36
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It wouldn't have been a problem if we just drafted Denis Savard in the first place! I started as a hockey fan while only cheering for individual players and not teams.. Denis Savard was and is my all time favorite hockey player ( Mr.Orr as well ).. And when he came to the Habs and finally got to left Lord Stanley over his head.. I guess I just stuck with the Habs.. That's what.. 18 and 19 years now I've been a die hard Habs fan because my favorite won the cup here..

Some might say that's not a good enough reason to stick with a team, its more like jumping on the bandwagon.. If I cheered for the Hawks, then yes I'd agree but since the FIRST TEAM I've ever cheered for was Montreal, I don't think I'm a bandwagon jumper oner haha..

And who knows.. If we drafted Savard, maybe '86 would have ended differently as well.. You never know.. That wouldve been Savard in his prime.. Man..

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Old
09-07-2010, 10:36 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
You all shouldn't complain too much

Savard was still decent with you

Look at how the Hawks handed Chelios to Wings ,, Now that is a horrendus deal
Wow...If I'm reading this right, it looks like the Hawks sent Chelios and to 1sts for Anders Eriksson? Forget the Eriksson thing being a bad choice of players, but 2 1sts? Wow, at least the Leafs got Kessel for 2 1sts. I feel for the pain that Hawk fans must have felt on that one!

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Old
09-08-2010, 12:35 AM
  #38
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I'm over 40 and don't regret letting Bowman go on to be GM in Buffalo...he never accomplished much as a GM in the NHL, making plenty of poor trades and poor high draft picks. Dudacek, Cyr, Lacombe and others ..... Shawn Anderson was a top five pick.....

Interesting to note that Chelios was a second round pick under Grundman...one of the best second round picks in league history. As was Naslund. Carbonneau was a third round pick under Grundman, as was Ludwig. McPhee was a 6th round pick... his drafting record wasn't great because ther were first round disappointments, but there have been worse draft records when you consider that Chelios, Carbo, McPhee, Ludwig and Naslund were key figures in the 1986 Cup team.

Trust me I was no huge fan of the Grundman hiring at the time, but in his defence it was in a tough situation as two more dynasties in the Islanders and Oilers followed the Habs, who lost some pretty key pieces in the winningest coach in league history, one of the greatest goalies ever in Dryden, a Hall of fame winger in Cournoyer and their Hall-of-fame first-line center in Lemaire within Grundman's first year. Two of the Big three in Savard and Lapointe would start on the downswing as well, as would Lambert, Shutt, Bouchard, and Lafleur within a couple of seasons.


the team needed to reload and Pollock had not stocked the cupboards as deeply as he once had...making some questionable draft picks in his later years like Napier over Bossy, Danny Geoffrion and Dave Hunter over Steve Payne and Tony McKegny.... Peter Lee, Rod Schutt and Bruce Baker over Randy Carlyle, Reed Larson and Brian Sutter.... Pollock was starting to lose some of his drafting touch by the end, and Grundman would inherit the scouting staff.

Funny - under his watch as well there were criticisms about first-round picks just as they had started with Pollock..and Serge Savard and Reggie Houle would also face similar criticisms....and today? Trevor Timmins and the GMs still faces the criticisms.

Grundman had the first overall pick in 1980 (Pollock's biggest contribution) and grabbed a player that every GM in the league would have picked first overall that year in Wickenheiser... he always gets maligned for it, but really the player everyone thought was going to be the next big star was Wick.... and Grundman being the greenhorn GM that he was at the time let the old Habs tradition of easing players slowly into the lineup rule the day..and Wickenheiser was left rotting in the press box that first couple of seasons, turned to alcohol and such to deal with the disappointment of being the next great star to being ridiculed by everyone.... the stars were not aligned right for Mr. Grundman even if we all agree he was in over his head.

Dryden's retirement was a huge hole to fill, as was Lemaire...it's rare to see your first-line center retire, but Grundman had to deal with that.

Grundman's other infamous claim to fame was the Langway trade where he picked up a former number one pick in Green and number two pick in Walter while dealing four players including Langway.

Green and Walter did win a Cup with Montreal and came close to a second while Langway and company would not come close in Washington. Yes the trade was not a good one and Langway could have been a key piece in Montreal, but Green and Walter were very solid players in their own right who contributed on and off the ice during Cup runs in 1986 and 1989.

Grundman gets harsh treatment today because he was put in a tremendously tough situation in following a legend. He won a Cup and was on hand for several key draft picks that helped Montreal restock and enjoy another nice run between 1986 and 1993 with three Cup appearances.


Meanwhile Bowman went on to further coaching fame, but he was far from successful as a GM...taking Buffalo from a first-place team in their division when he started to the worst team in the league when he was fired.

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Old
09-08-2010, 01:51 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Shadyone33 View Post
Wow...If I'm reading this right, it looks like the Hawks sent Chelios and to 1sts for Anders Eriksson? Forget the Eriksson thing being a bad choice of players, but 2 1sts? Wow, at least the Leafs got Kessel for 2 1sts. I feel for the pain that Hawk fans must have felt on that one!
it was actually Chelios for Anders Erickson and 2 1st not
Chelios and 2 1st for Erickson

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Old
09-08-2010, 02:20 PM
  #40
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I was just listening to Tony and Randy on the intermission (Team 990) and they said that the Chelios trade was a decision made by Ronald Corey and the ownership group at the time (Molson family). Apparently, it was NOT a hockey decision and it was more for business and personal reasons.

Still one of the worst trades the Habs made in the history of their franchise!
Huh?
Sometimes you young folk need to brush up on your history a bit.
I'm not sure how this story is breaking news lol.
It was a well known fact that Chelios was traded because of his off ice activities.
When Chelios recently mentioned that he could of gone to the Jets for Hawerchuk instead, now THAT was something new.

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Old
09-08-2010, 02:25 PM
  #41
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lol, the President's wife.

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Old
09-08-2010, 03:09 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Haberdashery View Post
I'm over 40 and don't regret letting Bowman go on to be GM in Buffalo...he never accomplished much as a GM in the NHL, making plenty of poor trades and poor high draft picks. Dudacek, Cyr, Lacombe and others ..... Shawn Anderson was a top five pick.....

Interesting to note that Chelios was a second round pick under Grundman...one of the best second round picks in league history. As was Naslund. Carbonneau was a third round pick under Grundman, as was Ludwig. McPhee was a 6th round pick... his drafting record wasn't great because ther were first round disappointments, but there have been worse draft records when you consider that Chelios, Carbo, McPhee, Ludwig and Naslund were key figures in the 1986 Cup team.

Trust me I was no huge fan of the Grundman hiring at the time, but in his defence it was in a tough situation as two more dynasties in the Islanders and Oilers followed the Habs, who lost some pretty key pieces in the winningest coach in league history, one of the greatest goalies ever in Dryden, a Hall of fame winger in Cournoyer and their Hall-of-fame first-line center in Lemaire within Grundman's first year. Two of the Big three in Savard and Lapointe would start on the downswing as well, as would Lambert, Shutt, Bouchard, and Lafleur within a couple of seasons.


the team needed to reload and Pollock had not stocked the cupboards as deeply as he once had...making some questionable draft picks in his later years like Napier over Bossy, Danny Geoffrion and Dave Hunter over Steve Payne and Tony McKegny.... Peter Lee, Rod Schutt and Bruce Baker over Randy Carlyle, Reed Larson and Brian Sutter.... Pollock was starting to lose some of his drafting touch by the end, and Grundman would inherit the scouting staff.

Funny - under his watch as well there were criticisms about first-round picks just as they had started with Pollock..and Serge Savard and Reggie Houle would also face similar criticisms....and today? Trevor Timmins and the GMs still faces the criticisms.

Grundman had the first overall pick in 1980 (Pollock's biggest contribution) and grabbed a player that every GM in the league would have picked first overall that year in Wickenheiser... he always gets maligned for it, but really the player everyone thought was going to be the next big star was Wick.... and Grundman being the greenhorn GM that he was at the time let the old Habs tradition of easing players slowly into the lineup rule the day..and Wickenheiser was left rotting in the press box that first couple of seasons, turned to alcohol and such to deal with the disappointment of being the next great star to being ridiculed by everyone.... the stars were not aligned right for Mr. Grundman even if we all agree he was in over his head.

Dryden's retirement was a huge hole to fill, as was Lemaire...it's rare to see your first-line center retire, but Grundman had to deal with that.

Grundman's other infamous claim to fame was the Langway trade where he picked up a former number one pick in Green and number two pick in Walter while dealing four players including Langway.

Green and Walter did win a Cup with Montreal and came close to a second while Langway and company would not come close in Washington. Yes the trade was not a good one and Langway could have been a key piece in Montreal, but Green and Walter were very solid players in their own right who contributed on and off the ice during Cup runs in 1986 and 1989.

Grundman gets harsh treatment today because he was put in a tremendously tough situation in following a legend. He won a Cup and was on hand for several key draft picks that helped Montreal restock and enjoy another nice run between 1986 and 1993 with three Cup appearances.


Meanwhile Bowman went on to further coaching fame, but he was far from successful as a GM...taking Buffalo from a first-place team in their division when he started to the worst team in the league when he was fired.
Well said
Unfortunately, Grundman was a business man and Bowman was a hockey man. Why they went with a since convicted businessman/councilor over one of the best hockey minds of our time is beyond me. As for the filling of the holes, Denis Heron?
I think the sheets are still stained from where he crapped them in the playoffs.
Just one humble man's opinion

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Old
09-08-2010, 03:23 PM
  #43
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Well said
Unfortunately, Grundman was a business man and Bowman was a hockey man. Why they went with a since convicted businessman/councilor over one of the best hockey minds of our time is beyond me. As for the filling of the holes, Denis Heron?
I think the sheets are still stained from where he crapped them in the playoffs.
Just one humble man's opinion
Bowman was a great coach, but his management abilitieswere quite awful

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Old
09-08-2010, 03:25 PM
  #44
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Lots of players are traded for off ice/PR reasons...Bertuzzi, Ribeiro, Heatley just to name a few. Not sure why this has to be revisited again.

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Old
09-08-2010, 08:38 PM
  #45
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it was actually Chelios for Anders Erickson and 2 1st not
Chelios and 2 1st for Erickson
Oh...Thanks for clearing that up.

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