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Marc Staal talks: "Not a wide gap, a chasm" (UPDATE - close to a deal?)

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Old
09-07-2010, 12:49 AM
  #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
And then the thread gets locked by a SJ Mod.

Meanwhile, one of their posters is now proposing:

Clowe, Couture, Murray + 1st 2011
for
Staal, Dubinsky and one of Grachev or Stepan.

They just don't get it.
neither does that guy.

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09-07-2010, 01:11 AM
  #402
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Someone needs to post a link to that article that had staal as one of, if not the best defensive d-men in the league (based on a wide range of stats). I don't care that San Jose fans think we overvalue our players, what some of them are proposing is not nearly enough. There is also no rush trade staal, so at this time he'll probably demand a premium. If you're not willing to overpay a but, then he stays

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09-07-2010, 01:41 AM
  #403
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I've never seen a fanbase filled with more homers and excuses than theirs. And I thought Habs fans were hard to deal with.
you have to put it into perspective

Montreal IS a hockey city, thats what they talk about even in summer.

San Jose doesn't really have ANY professional sports teams. I think they have/had a MLS team

San Jose is not a hockey town, in fact the Sharkies started up the freeway near San Francisco's Cow Palace. I should know I attended numerous games there. That team had both Kelly Kisio and Brian Mullen and they were terrible.

Most fans are homer bandwagon types to begin with, sharks fans are no different than other teams who are strong now but have little history to speak of. When they stunk many of these "fans" didn't even know what icing was. They grew into fans during the FOX tracks blazing puck and the Mighty Ducks rivalry. Pat Falloon ? Johan Garpenlov ? and Sergei Markarov. What do they have in common ? They are the leading scorers in the first 3 years of Sharks history.

Consider that Evgeni Nabokov who effectively became THE FRANCHISE when he arrived in 1999-2000 to carry that Sharks into the postseason and many after that, yet he has NEVER been to the finals.

If such a condition existed in say, Boston or Philly or NY the guy would be labeled as a choke job who cannot win the big game. Not in Nocal.

Those guys LOVE LOVE LOVE their sharks, its the only frickin game in town. And of late they have been a good team too. What disturbed me most about San Jose is how they tossed what I feel was their franchise guy under the bus. Scott Hannan was and still is an outstanding defenseman and my all time favorite shark.

I personally lost a little respect for San Jose when they let Hannan take his act to Colorado.

I doubt sharks want marc staal, they can't afford him

they need an affordable yet competent puck carrying blueliner who won't crimp the cap. Staal doesn't fit the bill.

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09-07-2010, 02:31 AM
  #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
you have to put it into perspective

Montreal IS a hockey city, thats what they talk about even in summer.

San Jose doesn't really have ANY professional sports teams. I think they have/had a MLS team

San Jose is not a hockey town, in fact the Sharkies started up the freeway near San Francisco's Cow Palace. I should know I attended numerous games there. That team had both Kelly Kisio and Brian Mullen and they were terrible.

Most fans are homer bandwagon types to begin with, sharks fans are no different than other teams who are strong now but have little history to speak of. When they stunk many of these "fans" didn't even know what icing was. They grew into fans during the FOX tracks blazing puck and the Mighty Ducks rivalry. Pat Falloon ? Johan Garpenlov ? and Sergei Markarov. What do they have in common ? They are the leading scorers in the first 3 years of Sharks history.

Consider that Evgeni Nabokov who effectively became THE FRANCHISE when he arrived in 1999-2000 to carry that Sharks into the postseason and many after that, yet he has NEVER been to the finals.

If such a condition existed in say, Boston or Philly or NY the guy would be labeled as a choke job who cannot win the big game. Not in Nocal.

Those guys LOVE LOVE LOVE their sharks, its the only frickin game in town. And of late they have been a good team too. What disturbed me most about San Jose is how they tossed what I feel was their franchise guy under the bus. Scott Hannan was and still is an outstanding defenseman and my all time favorite shark.

I personally lost a little respect for San Jose when they let Hannan take his act to Colorado.

I doubt sharks want marc staal, they can't afford him

they need an affordable yet competent puck carrying blueliner who won't crimp the cap. Staal doesn't fit the bill.


An amazing blend of ignorance and arrogance, with stupidity so thick you could drizzle it over pancakes.

Sharks fans, like every fanbase on here, has their fair share of loonies and homers. When one of these idiots makes you angry because they don't see your point of view or are overrating their own players, there's no reason to make a bigger idiot of yourself and trash an entire fanbase.

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Old
09-07-2010, 06:14 AM
  #405
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Summer is over. Camp begins in 10 days. More players will be working out at the Rangers facility in the next 10 days. Brandon Dubinsky worked out at the Rangers facility last September and then stopped when a contract wasn't worked out when camp started. That was kind of stupid.

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09-07-2010, 07:49 AM
  #406
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Summer is over. Camp begins in 10 days. More players will be working out at the Rangers facility in the next 10 days. Brandon Dubinsky worked out at the Rangers facility last September and then stopped when a contract wasn't worked out when camp started. That was kind of stupid.
I thought he wasn't allowed to participate in camp without a contract?

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09-07-2010, 08:02 AM
  #407
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He wasn't allowed in camp without a contract, that wasn't Dubinsky's choice. Sather wouldn't allow him. Same thing will apply to Staal

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09-07-2010, 10:50 AM
  #408
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I thought it was Torts that had said he couldn't be in camp without the contract?

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09-07-2010, 10:58 AM
  #409
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Yeah, maybe it was just Torts. Either way, I think that's pretty standard. Teams don't allow guys who aren't signed to come to camp (unless it's a tryout or something)

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09-07-2010, 12:11 PM
  #410
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Yeah, maybe it was just Torts. Either way, I think that's pretty standard. Teams don't allow guys who aren't signed to come to camp (unless it's a tryout or something)
Let's see if Nedved comes back.

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Old
09-07-2010, 02:05 PM
  #411
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Yea they pretty much have to be on a tryout to be in camp without a contract.

But that's the difference, those guys are trying to earn a job. The guys who hold out, are just trying to get more money.

Staal isn't helping himself if he misses any of camp. I know players understand the business aspect of the sport, but they really must resent it when they're all ready to go, ready to compete for their spot and role on the roster and then this other guy voluntarily holds out of camp to get more money and then comes in a week late and is handed a spot that someone else worked hard to earn?

If Staal holds out of camp he should be made an example of, make him earn his spot back. Make him play bottom pair/7th defenseman until he gets it through his head that he needs to earn things.

After a week or so of that, he should be fired up and ready to go.

Rangers talk to talk about players not being handed a spot based on name or contract, but we have yet to see them act on that other then Kotalik, who was pretty awful anyway.

Staal wants to hold out, that's his choice. Fine. But make him re-earn his spot when he decides to come back.

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09-07-2010, 02:17 PM
  #412
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Staal would earn it back in the first practice/scrimmage/preseason game, whatever. There's no one else as good as him as what he does and it's not even a question of someone bumping him. Playing a game of "earn your spot!" in this kind of circumstance is just silly.

If he missed all of training camp and started missing real games, then yeah he's going to be behind and might have to work up getting back into things, but a couple days of training camp? Not an issue.

No one is earning roster spots in the first week of training camp

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09-07-2010, 02:18 PM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Yea they pretty much have to be on a tryout to be in camp without a contract.

But that's the difference, those guys are trying to earn a job. The guys who hold out, are just trying to get more money.

Staal isn't helping himself if he misses any of camp. I know players understand the business aspect of the sport, but they really must resent it when they're all ready to go, ready to compete for their spot and role on the roster and then this other guy voluntarily holds out of camp to get more money and then comes in a week late and is handed a spot that someone else worked hard to earn?

If Staal holds out of camp he should be made an example of, make him earn his spot back. Make him play bottom pair/7th defenseman until he gets it through his head that he needs to earn things.

After a week or so of that, he should be fired up and ready to go.

Rangers talk to talk about players not being handed a spot based on name or contract, but we have yet to see them act on that other then Kotalik, who was pretty awful anyway.

Staal wants to hold out, that's his choice. Fine. But make him re-earn his spot when he decides to come back.
That's a nice sentiment and all, but regardless of who earns the spot, they're not going to come close to Staal.

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09-07-2010, 02:21 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Staal would earn it back in the first practice/scrimmage/preseason game, whatever. There's no one else as good as him as what he does and it's not even a question of someone bumping him. Playing a game of "earn your spot!" in this kind of circumstance is just silly.

If he missed all of training camp and started missing real games, then yeah he's going to be behind and might have to work up getting back into things, but a couple days of training camp? Not an issue.

No one is earning roster spots in the first week of training camp
haha, I was just about to post the same thing

At the end of the day we're worse without Staal... period. You can talk about teaching him a lesson or whatever, but we're really in no position to start threatening him with the loss of a roster spot. I'm pretty confident that he knows how important he is to this team

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09-07-2010, 02:47 PM
  #415
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Staal isn't doing anything that a thousand other players haven't done before him. The same guy(s) working hard to earn his spot now 5 years down the road from now might be holding out too. I wouldn't be handing out jobs to players just because they worked hard and went all the way through training camp. Staal's the third best player on this team right now and the best defenseman. There's no way he's not going to have a job.

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09-07-2010, 03:10 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
If Staal holds out of camp he should be made an example of, make him earn his spot back. Make him play bottom pair/7th defenseman until he gets it through his head that he needs to earn things.
Absolutely ridiculous. If Staal hasn't earned his roster spot at this point, then who has? Some of you guys still don't get that this is a business. If Staal holds out, I guess we can expect a bunch of posts suggesting that we trade him, just like Dubinsky, because Sather supposedly holds a grudge. Actually, it seems the only people that hold a grudge are some of the fans.

If he holds out, so what? He's going to sign eventually, one way or another, so what does it matter? There's no reason to get all butt-hurt about it.

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09-07-2010, 03:22 PM
  #417
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I thought he wasn't allowed to participate in camp without a contract?
I did a bad job explaining my point.

Since Dubinsky didn't have a contract,he should have stayed away from the team. Staal has not worked with the Rangers players in Greenburgh. He was not there today when nearly everyone except Gaborik and Frolov skated today. A few players skated last week but almost everyone skated and then had an off ice workout today. When the contract is signed,re-join your teammates.

Only frustrating part of this situation is the media blackout. No one is leaking anything. Business is business. For both sides. It's not personal

Even with Revis,the Jets leaked financial demands and offers during their media blackout.

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09-07-2010, 03:25 PM
  #418
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"I know, when I was going through it, I wanted to be in with the guys," Dubinsky said. "We've still got a couple of weeks, and hopefully something gets done. I think all of us in here know the type of guy Marc Staal is, and the type of teammate he is, and we know that he wants to be in here with us. Time just needs to play its course, and eventually, he'll be in here helping us win some games here."

Dubinsky is confident that, just as was the case with him a year ago, Staal will rejoin the Rangers and be ready for the season. While he hasn't actually spoken to his teammate, Dubinsky said they have exchanged "a couple of text messages here and there."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/rangers/#ixzz0ysSPYieU

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09-07-2010, 10:22 PM
  #419
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My point is to set an example. This is two years in a row this is happening.

I'm not suggesting they bench him in the regular season or anything.

But make a point, "Hey we don't like you guys holding out."

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09-07-2010, 10:31 PM
  #420
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what worries me most is that 9 out of 10 times a player that has held-out seems to always end up getting injured at some point in the season.

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09-08-2010, 01:29 AM
  #421
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
And then the thread gets locked by a SJ Mod.

Meanwhile, one of their posters is now proposing:

Clowe, Couture, Murray + 1st 2011
for
Staal, Dubinsky and one of Grachev or Stepan.

They just don't get it.
I know this is hypothetical. But I suppose they don't get it because the deal (and really, I don't think it's that bad of a trade proposal) doesn't do much if anything at all, to make the Rangers better right now.
Couture may very well be just as good as, or > than Grachev or Stepan. The problem is the Rangers need a first line center now who can feed Gabby the puck. So being Stepan and Grachev (who both can play center) are playing at or around the same level as Couture, it's a wash.
No need for Sather to make that trade.

Clowe is a big veteran grinding winger who can maybe score around 25g and put up 60pts. He's also not afraid to drop the gloves and stick up for his teammates. If the Rangers had that illustrious number one center man, I could see Clowe playing opposite Gaborik's wing on the top line.
But I like the fact Dubinsky will be playing LW. He's not going to take on the biggest and baddest bruisers in the game, but he can kick Richards ass. That's good enough for now.
Hence Clowe makes no sense either.

Between the fact that you guys have a Stanley Cup contending team and next summer's draft is projected to be rather weak, I can understand why you don't mind parting with your first round pick.
No thank you, as I expect the Rangers to at least make the playoffs and unless they can significantly move up in the draft, or "strike gold" and pick up the next Pavel Bure, it wouldn't be worth it. I don't like the odds at all.

Murray is a big bruising, hard hitting, stay at home defenseman. The Rangers could certainly use that. But Staal is significantly younger and is a franchise player who can hurt someone with a body check as well. As time passes he will get stronger, more confident, and is steadily increasing his offensive production year after year. He also exemplifies the direction in which the organization is FINALLY heading toward. Long overdue has been the need for good scouting and drafting, developing young players, and letting them go through the up's and down's together so hopefully they can actually grow as a team. Right now Staal is the best player among that "so called core" and, has already proven his worth imo. He's accomplished staying the plus side after shadowing the oppositions top players night after night during the entire course of his elc. Not to mention, he is by far the Rangers best stay at home defenseman.
Deal makes no sense...

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09-08-2010, 02:05 AM
  #422
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That's a nice sentiment and all, but regardless of who earns the spot, they're not going to come close to Staal.
Right. There's no question the kid has earned a good chunk of change already. Now being he's the Ranger's best d man, and this team is being built to win now (mainly because of our franchise goal tender) you would think Sather would have done a much better job helping out Lundqvist, while simultaneously locking up a young shut down "D man" who certainly has offensive skills, is improving in all facets of his game, getting stronger + more confident year after year, has Captain potential, and should be a huge part of the Rangers defense for the next 15+ years, but....he hasn't.

It has nothing to do with leverage or the "chasm b S," that Sather is talking about. He knows very well that he ###### things up with his atrocious signings. He and Dolan were so proud they made the 2nd rd of the playoffs 2 years straight with a highly motivated Jagr (and his team of Czechs...not to mention the Knicks still suck) that when he split for Omsk, Mr. Chairman was willing to let Sather dig as deep as he wished into his pockets to ensure the team would make the playoffs by signing whoever was available.

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09-08-2010, 05:43 AM
  #423
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The Rangers are not built to win now.

And the reason they can afford to spend about two years developing Stepan, Grachev, Kreider, McDonagh, and McIlrath is because Lundqvist and Gaborik are both still in their 20's.

By the time the aforementioned players are playing in the NHL, Lundqvist and Gaborik will only be in their early 30's (still prime years for elite players such as themselves) with a lot of years of good hockey still in them.

But if you think they are built to win the Cup this or next year, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

This year and next year are about developing the core of the franchise.

After that they'll have cap space freed (Drury, Rozsival), and they'll be able to fill in where neccessary to make the roster a legit contender for a long time.

Yea, we get it, Sather gave some bad contracts. They're looking to rectify that situation now. And it will be rectified (for the most part) within two years. And the Rangers top young players will all be on the ice at MSG at that point.

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09-08-2010, 06:39 AM
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
My point is to set an example. This is two years in a row this is happening.

I'm not suggesting they bench him in the regular season or anything.

But make a point, "Hey we don't like you guys holding out."
Negotiations are part of the business, but I know what you mean.

Staal's got an agent in his ear who's compensation is directly tied to Marc's. He's a member of a players association that will likely use his contract as a gauge for their member's values. Friends and family are undoubtedly weighing in with their own personal thoughts. I'd say it's beyond the team's ability to influence the choice a player ultimately makes other than to find common ground sooner rather than later.

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09-08-2010, 09:21 AM
  #425
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I can't believe this is happening two years in a row. This kid needs to be in camp, he's too young and far too important to be missing practice time.

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