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Holmgren believes it will be a fight just to make the playoffs again

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Old
09-08-2010, 04:04 PM
  #51
hextall shoots
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Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
I think he realized that we're heading into the season with Leighton/Boucher and Holmgren. That's frightening. For us. Not the opponents.
What was Leightons regular season record last year? Just out of curiosity

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09-08-2010, 04:08 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
This is the new-NHL. It's a fight for everyone to make the playoffs.
Depends what you mean.

Just because it's a fight for everyone doesn't mean it'll be a hard for everyone.

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Originally Posted by hextall shoots View Post
What was Leightons regular season record last year? Just out of curiosity
With us or Carolina or both?

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Old
09-08-2010, 04:20 PM
  #53
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i'll never get tired of hearing **** talked on homer, his moves continually get worse and then he makes comments like this, gms should have a little bit of confidence in the team that they have put together, unless trade away clutch, skilled players for goons

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09-08-2010, 04:26 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by hextall shoots View Post
What was Leightons regular season record last year? Just out of curiosity
Something like 16-5-2 iirc. If he maintains that pace, we might make the playoffs....but it's going to be a fight.

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09-08-2010, 04:35 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Something like 16-5-2 iirc. If he maintains that pace, we might make the playoffs....but it's going to be a fight.
thats a big if, since he's never had a regular season starter's load. he was also pulled in at least 3 games....and only faced three real offenses. i don't recall if those two numbers are related though, but regardless, that would also put him on pace to be pulled in around 10 games. that's no good. thank god its just conjecture.

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09-08-2010, 05:26 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Something like 16-5-2 iirc. If he maintains that pace, we might make the playoffs....but it's going to be a fight.
16-5-2 = 34 points in 23 games.

At that pace we finish the season with roughly 121 points.

Last 5 President's Trophy Winners:
2009-10: Washington Capitals - 121 points
2008-09: San Jose Sharks - 117 points
2007-08: Detroit Red Wings - 115 points
2006-07: Buffalo Sabres - 113 points
2005-06: Detroit Red Wings - 124 points

Let's just say, if Leighton paces anywhere near that next year in this division, easily the toughest in hockey, then...I don't know...

I'd have to rethink everything I ever said about him.

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09-08-2010, 07:36 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bauer4 View Post
i'll never get tired of hearing **** talked on homer, his moves continually get worse and then he makes comments like this, gms should have a little bit of confidence in the team that they have put together, unless trade away clutch, skilled players for goons
Lol these sort of comments amaze me.

What is he supposed to say?!! "Yea, we're the ****. We're going to cakewalk into the playoffs." Ask any GM in the league and he's going to say something similar. This is hockey, not the NBA, it IS a fight to get into the playoffs for the most part.

Edit: Oh, and I'm not a Holmgren supporter. He absolutely infuriated me ever since signing Randy Jones, and especially this offseason.


Last edited by DUHockey9: 09-08-2010 at 07:46 PM.
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Old
09-08-2010, 07:46 PM
  #58
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Ya know, I get on Homer all the time for his cap and asset (mis)management because, well, it's pretty obvious.

But yea, I'm not sure what people expected him to say here. He made an innocent and politically correct statement about how difficult he thinks it will be to make the playoffs. Standard GM speak.

To read anything more into than that is pretty ridiculous.

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Old
09-08-2010, 07:48 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
16-5-2 = 34 points in 23 games.

At that pace we finish the season with roughly 121 points.

Last 5 President's Trophy Winners:
2009-10: Washington Capitals - 121 points
2008-09: San Jose Sharks - 117 points
2007-08: Detroit Red Wings - 115 points
2006-07: Buffalo Sabres - 113 points
2005-06: Detroit Red Wings - 124 points

Let's just say, if Leighton paces anywhere near that next year in this division, easily the toughest in hockey, then...I don't know...

I'd have to rethink everything I ever said about him.
He wont. You wont ever have to rethink anything you ever said about him.

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Old
09-08-2010, 07:53 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Forgot, in Flyerland, it's never to early to panic like a scared schoolgirl.
guess i need to use one of these next time.

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Old
09-08-2010, 07:56 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Lol these sort of comments amaze me.

What is he supposed to say?!! "Yea, we're the ****. We're going to cakewalk into the playoffs." Ask any GM in the league and he's going to say something similar. This is hockey, not the NBA, it IS a fight to get into the playoffs for the most part.

Edit: Oh, and I'm not a Holmgren supporter. He absolutely infuriated me ever since signing Randy Jones, and especially this offseason.
It's the generic hockey response.

Win: The team played hard and came through in the end.

Win via shootout: The team played hard, and still managed to come through in the end.

Lose: The team played hard, but we just didn't come through in the end.

Anyone who doesn't believe me, watch a Mike Richards interview.

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Old
09-08-2010, 08:01 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
It's the generic hockey response.

Win: The team played hard and came through in the end.

Win via shootout: The team played hard, and still managed to come through in the end.

Lose: The team played hard, but we just didn't come through in the end.

Anyone who doesn't believe me, watch a Mike Richards interview.
Yep. Basically everyone says the same thing when presented with the same questions. Aside from you JR's or Pronger's of the world, you are rarely going to get anything other than the standard PC response.

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Old
09-08-2010, 08:39 PM
  #63
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Let's quote Holmgren ...

Quote:
"I believe again this year even more so that our conference is going to be even more compacted. The bottom teams are going to continue to catch up to the top teams because of the SALARY CAP. We're going to be in a fight just to get into the playoffs like we have the past few years."
For some, reading into his statements seem "ridiculous" to others they are pretty revealing. He is essentially saying, from my interpretation, that the Salary Cap has created parody in the league and he is basically admitting how critically important it is to manage a team properly within the salary cap structure b/c if you assemble a mediocre team or play inconsistently like they have "the past few years" and you are cap strapped (to make necessary adjustments) like they have been "the past few years" you are going to have a hard time making the playoffs like they have "the past few years". I don't know about anybody else but "the past few years" in the regular season have been frustrating. If it repeats this season for whatever reason which he is warning against and he is limited in fixing the problems b/c of being cap constrained..well then he's going to deserve criticism because he's the one that continues to not exactly be adroit with his cap management. This again was not some attempt to malign the dude in some unreasonable way....by him bringing up the importance of proper cap management in trying to separate yourself from the bottom pack so they don't steal a playoff spot is what this is really about.

For instance, if a team like Tampa swipes a spot over the Flyers b/c Dan Ellis and Gagne are big catalysts people are going to be rightfully annoyed even angry.....it will have been a result of poor cap decisions. This is what Holmgren sets himself up for when he talks about bottom teams possibly catching up because of the cap....

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Old
09-08-2010, 08:51 PM
  #64
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i wish homer could manage a cap. that gagne fellow would still be a flyer. hopefully zherdev plays like his career depends on it, that would be just peachy with me.

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Old
09-08-2010, 09:01 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
For some, reading into his statements seem "ridiculous" to others they are pretty revealing.
All his statements "reveal" is that he thinks it will be a dogfight to make the playoffs. Nothing more, nothing less. Again, standard GM speak.

Look, I don't like Homer as GM of this hockey club, and his inadequacies at managing the cap and his assets are well documented. But to take what he said here, and try to spin it into a reason to bash Homer is pretty low.

You wanna start another thread about Shooter and his horrible cap and asset management, then I'm game. He's an easy target. But to bash him over anything he said in that interview is really reaching.

Homer and his GM abilities leave alot to be desired, but are we really going to criticize Shooter every time he opens him mouth now?

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Old
09-08-2010, 09:06 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Let's quote Holmgren ...



For some, reading into his statements seem "ridiculous" to others they are pretty revealing. He is essentially saying, from my interpretation, that the Salary Cap has created parody in the league and he is basically admitting how critically important it is to manage a team properly within the salary cap structure b/c if you assemble a mediocre team or play inconsistently like they have "the past few years" and you are cap strapped (to make necessary adjustments) like they have been "the past few years" you are going to have a hard time making the playoffs like they have "the past few years". I don't know about anybody else but "the past few years" in the regular season have been frustrating. If it repeats this season for whatever reason which he is warning against and he is limited in fixing the problems b/c of being cap constrained..well then he's going to deserve criticism because he's the one that continues to not exactly be adroit with his cap management. This again was not some attempt to malign the dude in some unreasonable way....by him bringing up the importance of proper cap management in trying to separate yourself from the bottom pack so they don't steal a playoff spot is what this is really about.

For instance, if a team like Tampa swipes a spot over the Flyers b/c Dan Ellis and Gagne are big catalysts people are going to be rightfully annoyed even angry.....it will have been a result of poor cap decisions. This is what Holmgren sets himself up for when he talks about bottom teams possibly catching up because of the cap....
I think you meant to say "parity" instead of "parody", but other than that I agree, as most Flyers fans probably will.

Holmgren's problems are compounded by cap-related issues out of his control, such as upcoming RFAs. I think he's great at recognizing talent, but he's godawful at equating talent to relative monetary value (within the NHL).

If Gagne declines immediately, Meszaros eliminates the need for Carle (clearing some cap room and allowing Bartulis to develop at the NHL level), and Leighton becomes a solid starter throughout the seeason, Holmgren's going to be praised for his foresight. Those are all pretty big "if"s, though. Right now, he's the guy who unnecessarily traded away the longest-tenured Flyer, traded for a defenseman whose development has either stopped or regressed over the past 2 seasons, signed superstar Jody Shelley, and re-signed the goalie that gave up one of the weakest Stanley Cup-winning goals. He's deserving of any criticism he gets in reference to his GM duties/actions, and next year is definitely going to be a fight given the improvements within the conference (which Holmgren assisted in).

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Old
09-08-2010, 09:07 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
All his statements "reveal" is that he thinks it will be a dogfight to make the playoffs. Nothing more, nothing less. Again, standard GM speak.

Look, I don't like Homer as GM of this hockey club, and his inadequacies at managing the cap and his assets are well documented. But to take what he said here, and try to spin it into a reason to bash Homer is pretty low.

You wanna start another thread about Shooter and his horrible cap and asset management, then I'm game. He's an easy target. But to bash him over anything he said in that interview is really reaching.

Homer and his GM abilities leave alot to be desired, but are we really going to criticize Shooter every time he opens him mouth now?
So it's going to be a fight for no reason when he himself stated the reason essentially by bringing up the cap..umm yeah sorry I disagree.

Again, this is not unreasonable bashing on his cap management and if I want to start a thread where he brings it up himself well then I don't see why this is unreasonable and low....

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09-08-2010, 09:10 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
I think you meant to say "parity" instead of "parody", but other than that I agree, as most Flyers fans probably will.

Holmgren's problems are compounded by cap-related issues out of his control, such as upcoming RFAs. I think he's great at recognizing talent, but he's godawful at equating talent to relative monetary value (within the NHL).

If Gagne declines immediately, Meszaros eliminates the need for Carle (clearing some cap room and allowing Bartulis to develop at the NHL level), and Leighton becomes a solid starter throughout the seeason, Holmgren's going to be praised for his foresight. Those are all pretty big "if"s, though. Right now, he's the guy who unnecessarily traded away the longest-tenured Flyer, traded for a defenseman whose development has either stopped or regressed over the past 2 seasons, signed superstar Jody Shelley, and re-signed the goalie that gave up one of the weakest Stanley Cup-winning goals. He's deserving of any criticism he gets in reference to his GM duties/actions, and next year is definitely going to be a fight given the improvements within the conference (which Holmgren assisted in).
yes..parity...one of those malapropisms that slip my attention....

and I agree with the rest of what you are saying....some out of his control ..some within....it's still a factor which he himself admits to. That's my point...

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Old
09-08-2010, 09:11 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
So it's going to be a fight for no reason when he himself stated the reason essentially by bringing up the cap..umm yeah sorry I disagree.
Its a fight for everyone to make the playoffs these days, for the most part. The salary cap has created parity for the majority of the league. This isn't exactly breaking news. Detroit had to make a late push to get into the playoffs last season too, and Ken Holland is a master at dealing with the cap and managing his assets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Again, this is not unreasonable bashing on his cap management and if I want to start a thread where he brings it up himself well then I don't see why this is unreasonable and low....
To each their own.

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Old
09-09-2010, 12:19 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
16-5-2 = 34 points in 23 games.

At that pace we finish the season with roughly 121 points.

Let's just say, if Leighton paces anywhere near that next year in this division, easily the toughest in hockey, then...I don't know...

I'd have to rethink everything I ever said about him.
I wouldn't rush into it... I don't think his record is going to be THAT good...

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09-09-2010, 12:20 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by CerpinTaxt View Post
guess i need to use one of these next time.
No need, I was with you...

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Old
09-09-2010, 06:00 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
I think you meant to say "parity" instead of "parody", but other than that I agree, as most Flyers fans probably will.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt, because guys like Sather and Homer have done some things that have been pretty easy to make fun of since the lock out.

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Old
09-09-2010, 06:36 AM
  #73
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Why can't the season just start already so people can complain about legitimate problems instead of potential ones?

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Old
09-09-2010, 09:53 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Why can't the season just start already so people can complain about legitimate problems instead of potential ones?
Cause its more fun this way

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Old
09-09-2010, 10:05 AM
  #75
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Leighton/Boucher would scare me too, Homer.

You had your opportunity to fix it and you blew it.

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