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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

It's 1991: You have Cam Neely on the trading block. Who is worth his value?

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Old
09-07-2010, 05:37 PM
  #76
Canadiens1958
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Power Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Only Stevens on that list has a case that can be made in his favour, and even then it would be hard enough
It would be very unwise to trade an established power forward without receiving one in return.Both healthy, Stevens with a collection of other players and/or picks would be considered. Never straight - up for Neely.

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Old
09-07-2010, 05:40 PM
  #77
revolverjgw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Neely is the one that had 3 deep playoff runs, I think that is considered more valuable.
Bourque led the way for the Bruins. Yzerman's teams had guys like Steve Chaisson and Yves Racine as #1 d-men, so of course they weren't going anywhere yet. It had nothing to do with Yzerman being less impactful than Neely.

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Old
09-08-2010, 07:55 PM
  #78
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Yeah were oates put up 8 fewer points and was a selke finalist himself, with a much crappier team to boot. Good one, the gap between them was much bigger in 91 and from 93-95, and 2001-2003. I'm not even trying to bring this back into Oates because i got a warning, but these other guys want to quote it and bring it back. At least he was able to develop a two way game without the help of Scotty Bowman, haha too bad you cant say that about your boy.

Yzerman was never treated the way Messier or Jagr were and thats why they have a better hart record.

Cam Neely's point per game in 1991 was pretty close to Yzerman's anyways, i'm sure the stud factor would have went into his favour. Not to mention that he actually performed well in the playoffs those days, unlike Yzerman the playoff choke artist.

It would have made no sense at all for Boston to trade Yzerman for Neely. They probably would have done worse if that happened. The logical move would have been to give up janney and other players for an elite playmaker. It's just unfortunate that Neely and Oates didn't last very long.
Well I for one would certainly agree with you that the first half of the 1990s would have Oates rated over Yzerman. Not that Yzerman was bad of course, but statistically he was behind Oates and this was prior to his two-way game coming to fruition. Injuries in 1994 hurt him as well. I do think though that from 1995-2003 I would choose Yzerman on my team. He altered his game and I think many of us are equally impressed with this part of his career as we are with his high scoring era previously. He led, that's the bottom line and he proved how great of a captain he was. Also when Canada came calling for the Olympics/World Cup we all know who they picked in that time frame. No disrespect to Oates of course though, who played well that time frame himself.

But picture yourself as a GM. If it is 1991 would you feel comfortable giving up Yzerman for Neely? I wouldn't. Yzerman was bad defensively like Bure or anything by the way, he just wasn't anything special. No he wasn't physical either but you knew exactly what you were going to get from that guy. You were guaranteed a 50 goal 100+ point season back then. And these weren't stellar wings teams either with great supporting casts. Yzerman even in 1991 was too much of a tantalizing offensive prescence trade for Neely. I disagree with you saying that he was replaceable back then. Outside of Gretzky and Lemieux and perhaps Messier who was a better center in the NHL on a constant basis?

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09-09-2010, 01:54 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Well I for one would certainly agree with you that the first half of the 1990s would have Oates rated over Yzerman. Not that Yzerman was bad of course, but statistically he was behind Oates and this was prior to his two-way game coming to fruition. Injuries in 1994 hurt him as well. I do think though that from 1995-2003 I would choose Yzerman on my team. He altered his game and I think many of us are equally impressed with this part of his career as we are with his high scoring era previously. He led, that's the bottom line and he proved how great of a captain he was. Also when Canada came calling for the Olympics/World Cup we all know who they picked in that time frame. No disrespect to Oates of course though, who played well that time frame himself.

But picture yourself as a GM. If it is 1991 would you feel comfortable giving up Yzerman for Neely? I wouldn't. Yzerman was bad defensively like Bure or anything by the way, he just wasn't anything special. No he wasn't physical either but you knew exactly what you were going to get from that guy. You were guaranteed a 50 goal 100+ point season back then. And these weren't stellar wings teams either with great supporting casts. Yzerman even in 1991 was too much of a tantalizing offensive prescence trade for Neely. I disagree with you saying that he was replaceable back then. Outside of Gretzky and Lemieux and perhaps Messier who was a better center in the NHL on a constant basis?
Yeah but the problem with Yzerman is that he needs to be the 'go to guy' on his team in order to be effective. He needs to have the puck with him and do his thing, I dont think he would have been a good center to have a on a team that built themselves around a goal scoring right winger. Oates is clearly the better center to have if your team consists of an elite right winger like Cam Neely, Peter Bondra or Brett Hull.

Can you imagine brett hull or cam neely having thier success if a guy like Yzerman is centering them. I can't, he wants the puck all the time, it is doomed for a failure. Oates is simply the better playmaker.

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Old
09-09-2010, 09:29 AM
  #80
KingGallagherXI
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Forwards I wouldn't trade for Neely in 1991:

Gretzky
Lemieux
Yzerman
Hull
Messier
Oates

Defensemen:

Bourque
Coffey
MacInnis
Chelios

Goalies:

Roy
Belfour (Calder + Vezina)

That's pretty much it

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Old
09-09-2010, 09:44 AM
  #81
RabbinsDuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Yeah but the problem with Yzerman is that he needs to be the 'go to guy' on his team in order to be effective. He needs to have the puck with him and do his thing, I dont think he would have been a good center to have a on a team that built themselves around a goal scoring right winger. Oates is clearly the better center to have if your team consists of an elite right winger like Cam Neely, Peter Bondra or Brett Hull.

Can you imagine brett hull or cam neely having thier success if a guy like Yzerman is centering them. I can't, he wants the puck all the time, it is doomed for a failure. Oates is simply the better playmaker.
Yzerman was a brilliant playmaker, as well as goalscorer.

From 87 - 91 Neely and Yzerman were averaging:

44.2 g 35.6 a 79.8 pt = Neely
51.8 g 64.6 a 116.4 pt = Yzerman

Yzerman had 90 assists playing with Gerald Gallant.
Oates had 90 assists playing with Brett Hull and 97 assists playing with Juneau.
I'm ok with saying Oates was a better playmaker, but I don't think Yzerman was all that far behind. Both were elite playmakers.

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Old
09-09-2010, 02:44 PM
  #82
Fire Sweeney
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Boston had no need for a defenseman having the 4th best defenseman ever playing in his prime. Neely was their only elite forward. I can't imagine a scenario where the Bruins trade him.

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Old
09-09-2010, 04:54 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
all your ppg analysis shows is that yzerman was capable of putting up alot of points when he got eliminated in the first round. Neely is the one that had 3 deep playoff runs, I think that is considered more valuable. Technically, Jagr's playoff ppg blows Yzerman's, I dont see anyone call him one of the best ever in the playoffs.
You need to look at the entire team too. The B's had a damn good goalie in Andy Moog. The Wings had a group of goalies you probably have never heard of (Glen Hanlon, Tim Cheveldae, Allan Bester, Greg Millen, Alain Chevrier) and Osgood near the end of the early 90's. Sorry, but that there is enough to see why Boston went deeper than Yzerman did.

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