HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Backlund and JVR...Bad News and Good News

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-10-2010, 07:29 PM
  #51
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 4,466
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Yeah I posted that before I knew how much he put on.

I mean, I think the bigger thing for him to do is to maintain weight and stamina for the whole season.

The first 20 games or so of last year, I thought he was dynamite, but then the team hit a rut and by the time we got out of it, JVR just wasn't the same guy anymore.

So part of that is just being a rookie, but I think part of it was not being totally prepared for the grind of the NHL season. So hopefully he'll be better prepared this year and more prepared for those January, February, March games when it can get really tough.
I agree. He did say his body fat % was down so all things point towards him being in better shape.

Hockeypete49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2010, 08:07 PM
  #52
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Actually you could think the exact opposite.

Someone at 20 has a difficult time of adding lots of amount of muscle mass, which is why only older people are top bodybuilders. Or you can think it takes a long time to gain serious amount of muscle mass, which is why only older people are top bodybuilders. Especially when you start to consider bone mass development as well.

21 is not 16. He is not growing in stature anymore, which could account for a much larger growth, but once again that wont be muscle mass, and rather bone, tissue etc..

I am not saying that he hasn't added mass. I am saying 15lbs of lean muscle mass is way too over optimistic for someone to gain in 2-3 months. Outside of the use of steroids. Especially if you are training strength/power and not hypertrophy.

I am going to go with my years of reading and applying training articles and medical/nutritional articles about optimum/possible growth levels of muscle mass instead.
21 isn't 16. It isn't 25 with multiple years of professional training either... ya know? I have a cousin who easily put on 20+ lbs (in shape) after he graduated from HS.

I would say a few things:

1) List weights are remarkably unreliable.

2) Seeing JVR in person last year... dude was a *ing string bean. It wouldn't be hard for him to put mass on. His body should naturally fill out over the next few years, and I wouldn't be shocked to see him settle at a weight in the 215-220 range depending on how committed he is to it.

3) Lets slow the F down with throwing steroids around...

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2010, 08:08 PM
  #53
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
I agree. He did say his body fat % was down so all things point towards him being in better shape.
By all accounts he's worked extremely hard... which is why the people questioning his work ethic have been ignorant, to say the least. Dude was commuting between his parents house (north jersey) to Vorhees on a daily basis prior to even signing a contract with the team.

JVR is going to be a stud... unlike the Patrick Kane's of the world, he just needs to grow (physically) into his game.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2010, 11:52 PM
  #54
KimiFerrari
Messi Is God
 
KimiFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Argentina
Posts: 3,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
21 isn't 16. It isn't 25 with multiple years of professional training either... ya know? I have a cousin who easily put on 20+ lbs (in shape) after he graduated from HS.

I would say a few things:

1) List weights are remarkably unreliable.

2) Seeing JVR in person last year... dude was a *ing string bean. It wouldn't be hard for him to put mass on. His body should naturally fill out over the next few years, and I wouldn't be shocked to see him settle at a weight in the 215-220 range depending on how committed he is to it.

3) Lets slow the F down with throwing steroids around...
Yea 21 isn't 25, just like 3 isn't 8 and 12 isn't 16 etc..

The point is he is past the age where he is growing in stature now, which can provide more of weight gain.

Ok anecdotal evidence. I have a vegan sister who added 10lbs of muscle in 2 weeks, blah blah...

We graduate from high school at age 17 here, so I don't where you are going with you story. And did your cousin add all the muscle mass at once, on delivery of his diploma, which then immediately ripped all his clothes like hulk? Or did he add it over the year(s), or possibly exaggerate some numbers? Unless you routinely weigh you cousin?

So so many interesting questions there.

1) Ok, so then spitting out some random number of 10-15lbs in 2-3 months was obviously wrong, as I was pointing out. It was also very unlikely.

2)Yes so maybe from the beginning of last year to this day he added 15lbs, much more likely. Even if he looked skinny, doesn't mean he didn't have a lot of strength, nor that he hasn't trained.

3)steroids steroids steroids steroids steroids steroids steroids steroids steroids steroids steroids steroids steroids ....

Since I said he only added 6lbs (who knows how much of muscle mass), wtf does that have to do with me suggesting he used steroids? If someone who is a professional athlete whom has been training for at least the last few years, would not shoot up 15lbs in pure muscle mass that quickly, plain and simple. If he did then there would be some eyebrows raised, but HE DIDN'T.

Quote:
TP: Yes, I wrote a note today. He is bigger, stronger up top but his weight is only slightly more - 206 from about 201. Just like Gagne in his second year. Bigger
I am going to take the word of people that are always around him an actually monitor his size/weight. I know I'm crazy listening to documented stats and science over baseless anecdotal evidence...

KimiFerrari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2010, 12:10 AM
  #55
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
Oh the off-season. We are really arguing over how jacked JVR has or hasn't been able to become over the Summer.

Giroux tha Damaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2010, 12:12 AM
  #56
KimiFerrari
Messi Is God
 
KimiFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Argentina
Posts: 3,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Oh the off-season. We are really arguing over how jacked JVR has or hasn't been able to become over the Summer.
Not even, somehow this turned into skinny young people can gain serious muscle quick!!!! People have been reading one to many Flex magazines.

KimiFerrari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2010, 12:25 AM
  #57
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Not even, somehow this turned into skinny young people can gain serious muscle quick!!!! People have been reading one to many Flex magazines.
I personally think 10-15 pounds of muscle in two months for a guy with his size frame is realistically possible, that certainly not the norm. Naturally that is assuming he treats lifting like his occupation and is receiving professional guidance regarding his nutrition.

I get what you're saying that hypertrophy isn't needed for strength gains, but there's no denying that it helps. It's not a coincidence that jacked guys are stronger than puny guys.

Giroux tha Damaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2010, 12:39 AM
  #58
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Not even, somehow this turned into skinny young people can gain serious muscle quick!!!! People have been reading one to many Flex magazines.
The very article you noted stated that 1 lb a week was realistic with serious commitment and training.

3 months. 4 weeks a month. 12 lbs.

Never read a Flex magazine in my life... I do know leaping to steroid accusations when a young player adds bulk during the offseason is retarded, however.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2010, 09:43 AM
  #59
KimiFerrari
Messi Is God
 
KimiFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Argentina
Posts: 3,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The very article you noted stated that 1 lb a week was realistic with serious commitment and training.

3 months. 4 weeks a month. 12 lbs.

Never read a Flex magazine in my life... I do know leaping to steroid accusations when a young player adds bulk during the offseason is retarded, however.
You still don't know the difference between training for optimal hypertrophy and optimal power/strength do you?

KimiFerrari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2010, 10:20 AM
  #60
rban*
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
This. I'm pretty excited about this.
One question: they say he is now 206 lbs. Granted that's much more than he used to weigh, but isnt that still under-weight for a 'power forward'?

Cant think of immediate examples, but dont most of these power forward/ hard hitting forward types weigh in at 215-230 lbs range?

Interesting thought: make a list of power forwards and list their ht/wts. at their peaks.


Last edited by rban*: 09-11-2010 at 10:30 AM.
rban* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2010, 10:48 AM
  #61
SeanVT395
It's Not Even Close
 
SeanVT395's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vermont
Country: United States
Posts: 3,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rban View Post
One question: they say he is now 206 lbs. Granted that's much more than he used to weigh, but isnt that still under-weight for a 'power forward'?

Cant think of immediate examples, but dont most of these power forward/ hard hitting forward types weigh in at 215-230 lbs range?

Interesting thought: make a list of power forwards and list their ht/wts. at their peaks.
JvR isn't exactly a pure powe forward, the guy has much more of a natural scoring touch.

SeanVT395 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2010, 01:23 PM
  #62
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
You still don't know the difference between training for optimal hypertrophy and optimal power/strength do you?
I do.

You still don't seem to understand that 21 y/o's can have quick jumps in muscle mass/size, do you? Especially those that haven't filled out their frame yet... like JVR, who was a beanpole and was nowhere near muscle maturity for his frame yet.

Therefore, STEROIDS being the immediate leap of an explanation for that occurring... is completely unfair. Could he have taken steroids in that situation? Sure, anyone may have... that's the world we live in. Should it be the first explanation if such a jump were to take place? Absolutely not.

A couple years back Jeff Carter came back a lot bigger than he had been the season before. Carter has gained at least 18 lbs since he was drafted (combine weigh in, and the current Flyers listed weight -- which is unreliable, and he looks a bit bigger than 200 lbs.) A lot of which happened in one offseason.

Did he take steroids that summer?

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2010, 03:48 PM
  #63
DMadd
Registered User
 
DMadd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rban View Post
One question: they say he is now 206 lbs. Granted that's much more than he used to weigh, but isnt that still under-weight for a 'power forward'?

Cant think of immediate examples, but dont most of these power forward/ hard hitting forward types weigh in at 215-230 lbs range?

Interesting thought: make a list of power forwards and list their ht/wts. at their peaks.
Powerfowards are different know then from 5 years ago, young powerfowards have added more to there game then being big, they have added playmaking, and dangling to their game.

DMadd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2010, 05:15 PM
  #64
KimiFerrari
Messi Is God
 
KimiFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Argentina
Posts: 3,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I do.

You still don't seem to understand that 21 y/o's can have quick jumps in muscle mass/size, do you? Especially those that haven't filled out their frame yet... like JVR, who was a beanpole and was nowhere near muscle maturity for his frame yet.

Therefore, STEROIDS being the immediate leap of an explanation for that occurring... is completely unfair. Could he have taken steroids in that situation? Sure, anyone may have... that's the world we live in. Should it be the first explanation if such a jump were to take place? Absolutely not.
Not 15lbs in 2-3 months. Maybe 15lbs of weight, but not lean muscle mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
A couple years back Jeff Carter came back a lot bigger than he had been the season before. Carter has gained at least 18 lbs since he was drafted (combine weigh in, and the current Flyers listed weight -- which is unreliable, and he looks a bit bigger than 200 lbs.) A lot of which happened in one offseason.

Did he take steroids that summer?
So Carter gained 18lbs since he was drafted? so 18lbs in years versus 15lbs in months hmm ok. I see my logic is falling apart at the seems, you are right.

I know we went over the very unreliable numbers, because your "he looks bigger" estimate is very reliable. Once again I am sorry to have doubted you.

I am gonna say one last thing because if I wanted to discuss bodybuilding I would do it on this forum http:// forum. bodybuilding . com

So you can continue. I am here to talk hockey and this is getting boring.

I am glad he only added 5lbs, instead of trying to get hypertrophy. He should work incrementally on his weight to see how it affects his speed and maneuverability.

KimiFerrari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2010, 02:57 PM
  #65
rban*
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMadd View Post
Powerfowards are different know then from 5 years ago, young powerfowards have added more to there game then being big, they have added playmaking, and dangling to their game.
Any examples? Some power forwards today, and some from 5 years ago.. with their weight differences...

rban* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2010, 03:51 PM
  #66
thedjpd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The very article you noted stated that 1 lb a week was realistic with serious commitment and training.

3 months. 4 weeks a month. 12 lbs.

Never read a Flex magazine in my life... I do know leaping to steroid accusations when a young player adds bulk during the offseason is retarded, however.
I've been training for the last 4 years pretty seriously, and while I don't know everything, I do know a lot.

12 pounds of lean muscle mass in a year is very difficult, nevermind in 3 months.

It's within the realm of possibility for somebody who has never lifted a day in his life who can eat spotlessly clean and identify exactly how many calories his body needs optimally to put on mass and not gain fat, but it's damn near impossible.

It took me a year just to figure out how much I should eat based on how much work I do to gain weight, maintain and then lose weight (I mean serious measuring - I had a scale to measure out servings, weight, etc.)

Even assuming he has all that done, a great goal to have for ANY lifter is 15 pounds of *weight* (only where a large percentage of it, maybe 75 is LMM) per year. You *cannot* only gain LMM - you *will* gain a combination of fat and LMM - you just hope to minimize the former.

I'm not claiming he's juicing or anything, but I'd simply wager that the reported figures aren't entirely accurate.

thedjpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2010, 05:22 PM
  #67
starbuck97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 42
vCash: 500
I cant believe a team that was one horrendous goal & one game away from a stanley cup is going into this season with question marks in goal, but...

I would love to see Backlund step up and become a solid starter this year. I have a feeling this is what Holmgren is banking on. Backlund is not a true rookie, has a ton of int'l experience, and had a season to get used to NHL rinks. He could be a surprise starter and let Leighton be a solid #2.

This would allow Bobrovsky to start for the Phantoms and get his experience with NHL rinks.

Next year, Backlund and Bobrovsky fight it out for the starters job, and Eriksson takes over the Phantoms. Then the Flyers would finally have a pipeline going in goal.

I know, wishful thinking, but I am still in shock that Holmgren didnt get someone to compete with Leighton for the starters job.

starbuck97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2010, 05:25 PM
  #68
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,085
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbuck97 View Post
I cant believe a team that was one horrendous goal & one game away from a stanley cup is going into this season with question marks in goal, but...

I would love to see Backlund step up and become a solid starter this year. I have a feeling this is what Holmgren is banking on. Backlund is not a true rookie, has a ton of int'l experience, and had a season to get used to NHL rinks. He could be a surprise starter and let Leighton be a solid #2.

This would allow Bobrovsky to start for the Phantoms and get his experience with NHL rinks.

Next year, Backlund and Bobrovsky fight it out for the starters job, and Eriksson takes over the Phantoms. Then the Flyers would finally have a pipeline going in goal.

I know, wishful thinking, but I am still in shock that Holmgren didnt get someone to compete with Leighton for the starters job.
I agree and that's what I'm banking on actually. If Backlund can ever get healthy, I have full confidence that he can be an acceptable starter for this team. Even if he doesn't light up the league, all we need is an average starter with this team.

Garbage Goal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2010, 05:59 PM
  #69
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Backlund was mediocre in Sweden and in the AHL. Not sure why anyone sees him as a starter with us.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-15-2010, 06:29 PM
  #70
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Backlund was mediocre in Sweden and in the AHL. Not sure why anyone sees him as a starter with us.
Wait...what? MVP for the Phantoms, on one of their worse teams in recent memory? He carried that team on his back, and was top 5 in the league in GAA/SV% for awhile till he couldnt take the load of carrying them fully

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-16-2010, 08:15 AM
  #71
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
I've been torn about joining the gym at my work because, well, I hate working out. But I think I'm far more likely to do it, if I can during the middle of my workday.

Anyway, what I'm getting at here is, I am a very thin guy. I'm 6' 150 lbs, but with pretty good muscle tone. I'm 24, not all that much older than JVR. I probably have the most ideal body type to put on mass quickly being that I have a decent sized frame, but I'm just quite thin. So if a miracle occurs, and I actually manage to stick to a routine for 3 months, I'll let you all know how much weight I can manage to put on haha.

DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-16-2010, 08:48 AM
  #72
Spongolium*
Potato Magician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bridgend,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 8,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Anyway, what I'm getting at here is, I am a very thin guy. I'm 6' 150 lbs, but with pretty good muscle tone. I'm 24
Wow, I could bend you in half, and i'm 6'1, 190lbs. I thought i was skinny for my height lol

Spongolium* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-16-2010, 08:51 AM
  #73
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Wow, I could bend you in half, and i'm 6'1, 190lbs. I thought i was skinny for my height lol
Haha yea man. I hide it well though. I'm not all bone. I don't know, I've got a weird body type I guess. I'm actually a little under 6' if that helps haha.

DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-16-2010, 08:56 AM
  #74
LEIFey
Context Matters!
 
LEIFey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 7,285
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LEIFey
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Haha yea man. I hide it well though. I'm not all bone. I don't know, I've got a weird body type I guess. I'm actually a little under 6' if that helps haha.
Hah, I weigh a touch more than you and I'm a solid 5 inches shorter. Hit those weights, man

LEIFey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-16-2010, 09:24 AM
  #75
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,277
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Wow, I could bend you in half, and i'm 6'1, 190lbs. I thought i was skinny for my height lol
Haha, you think that's bad. I'm 6', 135.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:06 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.