Yeah I posted that before I knew how much he put on.
I mean, I think the bigger thing for him to do is to maintain weight and stamina for the whole season.
The first 20 games or so of last year, I thought he was dynamite, but then the team hit a rut and by the time we got out of it, JVR just wasn't the same guy anymore.
So part of that is just being a rookie, but I think part of it was not being totally prepared for the grind of the NHL season. So hopefully he'll be better prepared this year and more prepared for those January, February, March games when it can get really tough.
I agree. He did say his body fat % was down so all things point towards him being in better shape.
Someone at 20 has a difficult time of adding lots of amount of muscle mass, which is why only older people are top bodybuilders. Or you can think it takes a long time to gain serious amount of muscle mass, which is why only older people are top bodybuilders. Especially when you start to consider bone mass development as well.
21 is not 16. He is not growing in stature anymore, which could account for a much larger growth, but once again that wont be muscle mass, and rather bone, tissue etc..
I am not saying that he hasn't added mass. I am saying 15lbs of lean muscle mass is way too over optimistic for someone to gain in 2-3 months. Outside of the use of steroids. Especially if you are training strength/power and not hypertrophy.
I am going to go with my years of reading and applying training articles and medical/nutritional articles about optimum/possible growth levels of muscle mass instead.
21 isn't 16. It isn't 25 with multiple years of professional training either... ya know? I have a cousin who easily put on 20+ lbs (in shape) after he graduated from HS.
I would say a few things:
1) List weights are remarkably unreliable.
2) Seeing JVR in person last year... dude was a *ing string bean. It wouldn't be hard for him to put mass on. His body should naturally fill out over the next few years, and I wouldn't be shocked to see him settle at a weight in the 215-220 range depending on how committed he is to it.
3) Lets slow the F down with throwing steroids around...
I agree. He did say his body fat % was down so all things point towards him being in better shape.
By all accounts he's worked extremely hard... which is why the people questioning his work ethic have been ignorant, to say the least. Dude was commuting between his parents house (north jersey) to Vorhees on a daily basis prior to even signing a contract with the team.
JVR is going to be a stud... unlike the Patrick Kane's of the world, he just needs to grow (physically) into his game.
21 isn't 16. It isn't 25 with multiple years of professional training either... ya know? I have a cousin who easily put on 20+ lbs (in shape) after he graduated from HS.
I would say a few things:
1) List weights are remarkably unreliable.
2) Seeing JVR in person last year... dude was a *ing string bean. It wouldn't be hard for him to put mass on. His body should naturally fill out over the next few years, and I wouldn't be shocked to see him settle at a weight in the 215-220 range depending on how committed he is to it.
3) Lets slow the F down with throwing steroids around...
Yea 21 isn't 25, just like 3 isn't 8 and 12 isn't 16 etc..
The point is he is past the age where he is growing in stature now, which can provide more of weight gain.
Ok anecdotal evidence. I have a vegan sister who added 10lbs of muscle in 2 weeks, blah blah...
We graduate from high school at age 17 here, so I don't where you are going with you story. And did your cousin add all the muscle mass at once, on delivery of his diploma, which then immediately ripped all his clothes like hulk? Or did he add it over the year(s), or possibly exaggerate some numbers? Unless you routinely weigh you cousin?
So so many interesting questions there.
1) Ok, so then spitting out some random number of 10-15lbs in 2-3 months was obviously wrong, as I was pointing out. It was also very unlikely.
2)Yes so maybe from the beginning of last year to this day he added 15lbs, much more likely. Even if he looked skinny, doesn't mean he didn't have a lot of strength, nor that he hasn't trained.
Since I said he only added 6lbs (who knows how much of muscle mass), wtf does that have to do with me suggesting he used steroids? If someone who is a professional athlete whom has been training for at least the last few years, would not shoot up 15lbs in pure muscle mass that quickly, plain and simple. If he did then there would be some eyebrows raised, but HE DIDN'T.
Quote:
TP: Yes, I wrote a note today. He is bigger, stronger up top but his weight is only slightly more - 206 from about 201. Just like Gagne in his second year. Bigger
I am going to take the word of people that are always around him an actually monitor his size/weight. I know I'm crazy listening to documented stats and science over baseless anecdotal evidence...
Not even, somehow this turned into skinny young people can gain serious muscle quick!!!! People have been reading one to many Flex magazines.
I personally think 10-15 pounds of muscle in two months for a guy with his size frame is realistically possible, that certainly not the norm. Naturally that is assuming he treats lifting like his occupation and is receiving professional guidance regarding his nutrition.
I get what you're saying that hypertrophy isn't needed for strength gains, but there's no denying that it helps. It's not a coincidence that jacked guys are stronger than puny guys.
Not even, somehow this turned into skinny young people can gain serious muscle quick!!!! People have been reading one to many Flex magazines.
The very article you noted stated that 1 lb a week was realistic with serious commitment and training.
3 months. 4 weeks a month. 12 lbs.
Never read a Flex magazine in my life... I do know leaping to steroid accusations when a young player adds bulk during the offseason is retarded, however.
The very article you noted stated that 1 lb a week was realistic with serious commitment and training.
3 months. 4 weeks a month. 12 lbs.
Never read a Flex magazine in my life... I do know leaping to steroid accusations when a young player adds bulk during the offseason is retarded, however.
You still don't know the difference between training for optimal hypertrophy and optimal power/strength do you?
You still don't know the difference between training for optimal hypertrophy and optimal power/strength do you?
I do.
You still don't seem to understand that 21 y/o's can have quick jumps in muscle mass/size, do you? Especially those that haven't filled out their frame yet... like JVR, who was a beanpole and was nowhere near muscle maturity for his frame yet.
Therefore, STEROIDS being the immediate leap of an explanation for that occurring... is completely unfair. Could he have taken steroids in that situation? Sure, anyone may have... that's the world we live in. Should it be the first explanation if such a jump were to take place? Absolutely not.
A couple years back Jeff Carter came back a lot bigger than he had been the season before. Carter has gained at least 18 lbs since he was drafted (combine weigh in, and the current Flyers listed weight -- which is unreliable, and he looks a bit bigger than 200 lbs.) A lot of which happened in one offseason.
One question: they say he is now 206 lbs. Granted that's much more than he used to weigh, but isnt that still under-weight for a 'power forward'?
Cant think of immediate examples, but dont most of these power forward/ hard hitting forward types weigh in at 215-230 lbs range?
Interesting thought: make a list of power forwards and list their ht/wts. at their peaks.
Powerfowards are different know then from 5 years ago, young powerfowards have added more to there game then being big, they have added playmaking, and dangling to their game.
You still don't seem to understand that 21 y/o's can have quick jumps in muscle mass/size, do you? Especially those that haven't filled out their frame yet... like JVR, who was a beanpole and was nowhere near muscle maturity for his frame yet.
Therefore, STEROIDS being the immediate leap of an explanation for that occurring... is completely unfair. Could he have taken steroids in that situation? Sure, anyone may have... that's the world we live in. Should it be the first explanation if such a jump were to take place? Absolutely not.
Not 15lbs in 2-3 months. Maybe 15lbs of weight, but not lean muscle mass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
A couple years back Jeff Carter came back a lot bigger than he had been the season before. Carter has gained at least 18 lbs since he was drafted (combine weigh in, and the current Flyers listed weight -- which is unreliable, and he looks a bit bigger than 200 lbs.) A lot of which happened in one offseason.
Did he take steroids that summer?
So Carter gained 18lbs since he was drafted? so 18lbs in years versus 15lbs in months hmm ok. I see my logic is falling apart at the seems, you are right.
I know we went over the very unreliable numbers, because your "he looks bigger" estimate is very reliable. Once again I am sorry to have doubted you.
I am gonna say one last thing because if I wanted to discuss bodybuilding I would do it on this forum http:// forum. bodybuilding . com
So you can continue. I am here to talk hockey and this is getting boring.
I am glad he only added 5lbs, instead of trying to get hypertrophy. He should work incrementally on his weight to see how it affects his speed and maneuverability.
Powerfowards are different know then from 5 years ago, young powerfowards have added more to there game then being big, they have added playmaking, and dangling to their game.
Any examples? Some power forwards today, and some from 5 years ago.. with their weight differences...
The very article you noted stated that 1 lb a week was realistic with serious commitment and training.
3 months. 4 weeks a month. 12 lbs.
Never read a Flex magazine in my life... I do know leaping to steroid accusations when a young player adds bulk during the offseason is retarded, however.
I've been training for the last 4 years pretty seriously, and while I don't know everything, I do know a lot.
12 pounds of lean muscle mass in a year is very difficult, nevermind in 3 months.
It's within the realm of possibility for somebody who has never lifted a day in his life who can eat spotlessly clean and identify exactly how many calories his body needs optimally to put on mass and not gain fat, but it's damn near impossible.
It took me a year just to figure out how much I should eat based on how much work I do to gain weight, maintain and then lose weight (I mean serious measuring - I had a scale to measure out servings, weight, etc.)
Even assuming he has all that done, a great goal to have for ANY lifter is 15 pounds of *weight* (only where a large percentage of it, maybe 75 is LMM) per year. You *cannot* only gain LMM - you *will* gain a combination of fat and LMM - you just hope to minimize the former.
I'm not claiming he's juicing or anything, but I'd simply wager that the reported figures aren't entirely accurate.
I cant believe a team that was one horrendous goal & one game away from a stanley cup is going into this season with question marks in goal, but...
I would love to see Backlund step up and become a solid starter this year. I have a feeling this is what Holmgren is banking on. Backlund is not a true rookie, has a ton of int'l experience, and had a season to get used to NHL rinks. He could be a surprise starter and let Leighton be a solid #2.
This would allow Bobrovsky to start for the Phantoms and get his experience with NHL rinks.
Next year, Backlund and Bobrovsky fight it out for the starters job, and Eriksson takes over the Phantoms. Then the Flyers would finally have a pipeline going in goal.
I know, wishful thinking, but I am still in shock that Holmgren didnt get someone to compete with Leighton for the starters job.
I cant believe a team that was one horrendous goal & one game away from a stanley cup is going into this season with question marks in goal, but...
I would love to see Backlund step up and become a solid starter this year. I have a feeling this is what Holmgren is banking on. Backlund is not a true rookie, has a ton of int'l experience, and had a season to get used to NHL rinks. He could be a surprise starter and let Leighton be a solid #2.
This would allow Bobrovsky to start for the Phantoms and get his experience with NHL rinks.
Next year, Backlund and Bobrovsky fight it out for the starters job, and Eriksson takes over the Phantoms. Then the Flyers would finally have a pipeline going in goal.
I know, wishful thinking, but I am still in shock that Holmgren didnt get someone to compete with Leighton for the starters job.
I agree and that's what I'm banking on actually. If Backlund can ever get healthy, I have full confidence that he can be an acceptable starter for this team. Even if he doesn't light up the league, all we need is an average starter with this team.
Backlund was mediocre in Sweden and in the AHL. Not sure why anyone sees him as a starter with us.
Wait...what? MVP for the Phantoms, on one of their worse teams in recent memory? He carried that team on his back, and was top 5 in the league in GAA/SV% for awhile till he couldnt take the load of carrying them fully
I've been torn about joining the gym at my work because, well, I hate working out. But I think I'm far more likely to do it, if I can during the middle of my workday.
Anyway, what I'm getting at here is, I am a very thin guy. I'm 6' 150 lbs, but with pretty good muscle tone. I'm 24, not all that much older than JVR. I probably have the most ideal body type to put on mass quickly being that I have a decent sized frame, but I'm just quite thin. So if a miracle occurs, and I actually manage to stick to a routine for 3 months, I'll let you all know how much weight I can manage to put on haha.
Wow, I could bend you in half, and i'm 6'1, 190lbs. I thought i was skinny for my height lol
Haha yea man. I hide it well though. I'm not all bone. I don't know, I've got a weird body type I guess. I'm actually a little under 6' if that helps haha.
Haha yea man. I hide it well though. I'm not all bone. I don't know, I've got a weird body type I guess. I'm actually a little under 6' if that helps haha.
Hah, I weigh a touch more than you and I'm a solid 5 inches shorter. Hit those weights, man
