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Old
09-11-2010, 09:20 PM
  #76
Bird Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRASHCAT View Post
He said he would only trade staal for only an uber-elite talent. So unless its a 3 way trade with crosby and ovy going to ny, its straight up. l2read
My God.

Seriously? : laugh:

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Old
09-11-2010, 09:22 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 080 View Post
Does it matter? If Shero picked up the phone and heard "Marc Staal + some other **** that might be OK for Malkin" -- he's going to hang up the phone. If Staal is the centerpiece for a deal for Malkin then that's just not going to happen.

Please, put together a package for me -- with Staal -- that NY would trade to Pittsburgh for Malkin.

I would think players like Backes, Kesler, Pominville, etc. would be of the same calibre as Staal -- in terms of worth.
They only one remotely the same value you listed is Kesler.

It's an interesting trade and I wouldn't be fully against it, but I don't think he solves enough problems for that move to be made.

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Old
09-11-2010, 09:27 PM
  #78
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by Franzen93 View Post
On behalf of all Ranger fans, I apologize for the ignorance of Bermeister.
1) Let's keep this civil, not personal.

2) I don't want to be accused of hijacking this thread. It was appropriate to discuss M. Staal as a primary component of the original post, and it was still good form to make reference to an uber-elite and use Malkin as a reference to perceived value. However, let's not get away from the original post of a Caps-NYR deal.

3) I am not aware you have been appointed spokesman, let alone supreme emperor, of all NYR fans. When that happens, then you can claim to speak on their collective behalf. In the meantime, you are entitled only to your own opinion, be it worthwhile, or in this case or attempting to rip me without reason, worthless.

4) It's bernmeister, not "Bermeister". I only bring this up because I rushed a response which had a grammatical error, on which you were quick to pounce.

I worked a full day, today, Saturday, to do somebody a solid.
I'm tired.
What's your excuse?

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Old
09-11-2010, 09:29 PM
  #79
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Just because you "worked a full day" today, doesn't make up for your lack of understanding player value. An unsigned Marc Staal will not garner any of what you said. ANd why do you use words like "uber-elite" and "ultra-top"? It's weird.

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Old
09-11-2010, 09:38 PM
  #80
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRASHCAT View Post
dont worry, i wouldnt (who would?) assume he speaks for the majority of rangers fandom. Just an amusing post.
We all speculate, some times specifying IMO (in my opinion) and otherwise saying or implying we think most other fans agree with our positions.

Whether or not most NYR fans in particular or hockey fans in general agree with my positions obviously are on a case by case, topic by topic basis.

You have a right to consider my comments merely amusing.
But you'd be better served, as Jonathan noted, if you actually read them.

If you still disagree, fine, that's your right.

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Old
09-11-2010, 09:43 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by 080 View Post
That's just ridiculous. Malkin is on par with Ovechkin, Crosby and a few others for the best player in the league -- why not ask the Caps for Ovechkin? Seeing as how that's fair-value.

Staal is a very good player but let's not go nuts here -- he's not a franchise-player and he's not an elite-player.
Again, as Jonathan noted, no one said M Staal straight up for one of the three uber-elite players. He is, IMO, just into the elite class. If he is not franchise, he is close enough to be there soon. And again, this is as an overall value. As a shutdown specialist, IMO he has few peers.

We are not that far off.
You acknowledge he is already very good, and I give him just a little more credit than that.
No problem there.

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Old
09-11-2010, 09:44 PM
  #82
Bird Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franzen93 View Post
Just because you "worked a full day" today, doesn't make up for your lack of understanding player value. An unsigned Marc Staal will not garner any of what you said. ANd why do you use words like "uber-elite" and "ultra-top"? It's weird.
First off, calm down. It's just hyperbole. Who cares what he's saying?

Second off, an unsigned Marc Staal will still bring a very, very good player back. Much more than what has been offered by most teams fans out there so far.

The entire point of his posts were of trading Staal in a package. Staal in a package with picks and prospects or young NHLers will bring back HUGE value.

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Old
09-11-2010, 09:47 PM
  #83
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by CapsandHoos View Post
?????????
And who uses the word "uber"?
I do.
It's an appropriate alternate for 'ultra', as you know.
Thank you for acknowledging it is in fact a word, and used correctly should not be the basis for you to cry for so much help.

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Old
09-11-2010, 09:48 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
First off, calm down. It's just hyperbole. Who cares what he's saying?

Second off, an unsigned Marc Staal will still bring a very, very good player back. Much more than what has been offered by most teams fans out there so far.

The entire point of his posts were of trading Staal in a package. Staal in a package with picks and prospects or young NHLers will bring back HUGE value.
Yeah, I don't really care, but I just find it odd.

I know that, but even a signed Staal wouldn't work as the centerpiece in a deal for Malkin.

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Old
09-11-2010, 09:58 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Was bernmeister the poster who suggested the three-way trade that would land the Penguins Kovalchuk with the prupose of forming the SUPREME LINE?
I don't know if there were any others recently or previously, but yes, to answer this question quickly so we can get back to the OP thread, yes, I recently said as Kovy was still a free agent IF NYR could somehow have an understanding w/him and do a sign + trade equivalent, + if certain CAP obstacles could be overcome during the process, then yes, one bonafide variant of a legit deal for Malkin and J. Staal + X could include Gabborik + Kovy + additional NYR assets. This could be particularly appealing to Pens looking for wingers for Crosby.

Again, let's not get off topic now, but if anyone wants to run with this, and make a separate thread, by all means go ahead. You have 2 variations: what would be the supreme line now, assuming you could somehow acquire the forwards you wanted? and also, in alternate, showing the homework of the process, what would be the realistic supreme line you think your team, or a competitor could actually achieve?

Did you have an idea for an even more supreme line? Again, please save it for that new thread...

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Old
09-11-2010, 10:00 PM
  #86
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You do realize that Wolf was kidding, right?

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Old
09-11-2010, 10:05 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Again, as Jonathan noted, no one said M Staal straight up for one of the three uber-elite players. He is, IMO, just into the elite class. If he is not franchise, he is close enough to be there soon. And again, this is as an overall value. As a shutdown specialist, IMO he has few peers.

We are not that far off.
You acknowledge he is already very good, and I give him just a little more credit than that.
No problem there.
I do acknowledge Staal as a very good NHL defenceman -- but you still have not put together a package worthy of returning Malkin. I'm just interested to see how far-off our perceptions of Staal are.

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Old
09-11-2010, 10:07 PM
  #88
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 080 View Post
Does it matter? If Shero picked up the phone and heard "Marc Staal + some other **** that might be OK for Malkin" -- he's going to hang up the phone. If Staal is the centerpiece for a deal for Malkin then that's just not going to happen.

Please, put together a package for me -- with Staal -- that NY would trade to Pittsburgh for Malkin.

I would think players like Backes, Kesler, Pominville, etc. would be of the same calibre as Staal -- in terms of worth.
He doesn't have to be the "centerpiece". He just has to be enough of a substantial contribution to be profitable enough for PP to consider making if not doing the trade.

I believe I earlier mentioned Gabborik (forgot to throw in the inexpensive Prospal) + Staal + Gilroy + flipping picks for Malkin + LeTang, off the top of my head.

Again, move it to a new thread, but don't you think that IF Malkin were moved at all, (he will not be for another 2+ years if PP can help it), then this is fair to good value in the current market?

Again, I did not say that was the only combo that works...

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Old
09-11-2010, 10:12 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franzen93 View Post
Just because you "worked a full day" today, doesn't make up for your lack of understanding player value. An unsigned Marc Staal will not garner any of what you said. ANd why do you use words like "uber-elite" and "ultra-top"? It's weird.
You are entitled to your opinion.
We disagree about some player values, including apparently M. Staal.

As to why I use those terms, it is to acknowledge that those three: Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, are in a class by themselves, with Stamkos maybe beginning to knock at their door. I don't think that's excessive.

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Old
09-11-2010, 10:13 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I don't know if there were any others recently or previously, but yes, to answer this question quickly so we can get back to the OP thread, yes, I recently said as Kovy was still a free agent IF NYR could somehow have an understanding w/him and do a sign + trade equivalent, + if certain CAP obstacles could be overcome during the process, then yes, one bonafide variant of a legit deal for Malkin and J. Staal + X could include Gabborik + Kovy + additional NYR assets. This could be particularly appealing to Pens looking for wingers for Crosby.

Again, let's not get off topic now, but if anyone wants to run with this, and make a separate thread, by all means go ahead. You have 2 variations: what would be the supreme line now, assuming you could somehow acquire the forwards you wanted? and also, in alternate, showing the homework of the process, what would be the realistic supreme line you think your team, or a competitor could actually achieve?

Did you have an idea for an even more supreme line? Again, please save it for that new thread...
Parise - Crosby - Perry would be my supreme line.
Kovalchuk - Malkin - Hossa would be another.

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Old
09-11-2010, 10:31 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
He doesn't have to be the "centerpiece". He just has to be enough of a substantial contribution to be profitable enough for PP to consider making if not doing the trade.

I believe I earlier mentioned Gabborik (forgot to throw in the inexpensive Prospal) + Staal + Gilroy + flipping picks for Malkin + LeTang, off the top of my head.

Again, move it to a new thread, but don't you think that IF Malkin were moved at all, (he will not be for another 2+ years if PP can help it), then this is fair to good value in the current market?

Again, I did not say that was the only combo that works...
I'm really not sure what you're trying to say half of the time. 'Centerpiece' simple means the main component -- in this particular scenario that's Staal.

I think that is a deal that Shero would seriously consider and would likely jump on.

Also, is English your first-language? I'm not trying to take a shot at you or anything you just seem as though you might be European or something.

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Old
09-12-2010, 09:52 AM
  #92
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 080 View Post
I'm really not sure what you're trying to say half of the time. 'Centerpiece' simple means the main component -- in this particular scenario that's Staal.

I think that is a deal that Shero would seriously consider and would likely jump on.

Also, is English your first-language? I'm not trying to take a shot at you or anything you just seem as though you might be European or something.
Thank you for feedback indicating you not only think Shero would seriously consider it but have to lean towards doing it.

As to "centerpiece", I'm not sure I can be clearer.
You considered Staal the centerpiece; in the above illustration, one could say it was Gabborik.

My point is, others are insisting Staal or this one or that one must be a centerpiece or a core or whatever, often trying to force a one for one, a Coke for Pepsi.

I think if you have a guy like M. Staal, you only trade him if you move up, which will likely require a package, and it doesn't matter which of those pieces of choicest, or most valuable, or centerpiece; the bottom line is the deal was an attractive enough offer to obtain serious consideration and possible follow through; i.e., it had merit.

Thanks again for the response.

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