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Old
09-13-2010, 06:08 PM
  #51
080
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Originally Posted by Force951 View Post
Because on this board when we make proposals we don't get the actual GM's to come in and give their opinion. So the only thing that is left is the fans. Figured that one was pretty self explanatory however i can start spelling stuff out for you if you want.

And I thought it was pretty self-explanatory that when discussing a rumour about an actual trade -- not just a hypothetical one proposed by someone on here -- that the fans have absolutely no say whatsoever in the negotiations. Claiming that a trade cannot occur because it is not what the fan base wants, is ridiculous. What kind of a moron would even arrive at such an absurd statement? Irrespective of whether or not the statement is logical or not, the fan base is irrelevant.

I don't, however, believe that any deal surrounding Kaberle and Ryan will ever come to fruition.

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:10 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
Leafs fans will do anything to even think about getting Ryan, reguardless of how stupid it is.
eklund is a leaf fan
E5

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:10 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by 080 View Post
And I thought it was pretty self-explanatory that when discussing a rumour about an actual trade -- not just a hypothetical one proposed by someone on here -- that the fans have absolutely no say whatsoever in the negotiations. Claiming that a trade cannot occur because it is not what the fan base wants, is ridiculous. What kind of a moron would even arrive at such an absurd statement? Irrespective of whether or not the statement is logical or not, the fan base is irrelevant.

I don't, however, believe that any deal surrounding Kaberle and Ryan will ever come to fruition.
nice to meet u. but you are about 6 months behind

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:13 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by 080 View Post
And I thought it was pretty self-explanatory that when discussing a rumour about an actual trade -- not just a hypothetical one proposed by someone on here -- that the fans have absolutely no say whatsoever in the negotiations. Claiming that a trade cannot occur because it is not what the fan base wants, is ridiculous. What kind of a moron would even arrive at such an absurd statement? Irrespective of whether or not the statement is logical or not, the fan base is irrelevant.

I don't, however, believe that any deal surrounding Kaberle and Ryan will ever come to fruition.
What actual trade is here? Its a rumor about Ryan to the Leafs with nothing definitive. Also who is talking about a trade can't occur because what the fans think? A trade that pleases both fan bases won't be agreed to here and that's what we are talking about. Just another case of you taking everything way to literal and need to step back and actually think about what these boards are for.

This board is for fans of teams to propose trades, or try and figure out what the value is. Nobody here thinks they are actually talking for their team, and GM's from the teams don't post proposal's here or in the threads. Did i spell that out clear enough for you?

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:14 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Force951 View Post
Been talked about 50+ times already this summer. Ducks fans want Kadri+Schenn, leafs fans won't give up that much so both sides walk away. Just give up on it already.
ftfy.

You're mixing HF up with reality.

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:16 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by bringthecuphome View Post
What I find weird is when Leafs fans get bashed for **** that Eklund writes.
Maybe because they are always the ones posting them here involving Ryan when no one else would take the time of the day to because it's obviously wrong? Maybe because every time there is a stupid obvious made up rumor about it, some leaf fans start spitting proposals that have already been discussed thousands of times reguardless of how ridiculous or made up the rumor is?

Take your pick.

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:17 PM
  #57
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While I *still* expect Ryan to remain a Duck, let's see a proposal without Kadri/Schenn to see what can be done.

Ryan

for

Kaberle
Versteeg
2012 1st round pick
Luca Caputi

Kaberle:

- We know he won't re-sign and that's actually a good thing. This year we could have Vis-Lydman, Kaberle-Sutton/Sbisa, Sutton/Sbisa-Brookbank and Festerling/Mikkelson. Pretty good depth. Next year, we hope Sbisa takes a Top-4 spot for good and someone else like Fowler, Gardiner or one of our other prospects may make it. Basically, if we got Schenn back, that would limit opportunity for our awesome D prospects pool.

- Versteeg is a versatile forward and I'm sure would fit the Anaheim style like a glove (if Anaheim decides to actually have a defined style this season heh). Versteeg - Getzlaf - Perry could probably do close to what Ryan - Getzlaf - Perry could do. With Lupul's health concerns and Selanne maybe retiring next year, we could use another Top-6 forward. Would Burke move a guy he just acquired? For this deal, I think he would.

- First rounder is an unknown; it could be an excellent pick or it could be middle of the pack. regardless, it's a 1st.

- Caputi lost some of his shine since he was drafted, but he's mostly a throw-in to this deal since Anaheim is low on prospect LWers.

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
Maybe because they are always the ones posting them here involving Ryan when no one else would take the time of the day to because it's obviously wrong? Maybe because every time there is a stupid obvious made up rumor about it, some leaf fans start spitting proposals that have already been discussed thousands of times reguardless of how ridiculous or made up the rumor is?

Take your pick.
why you mad tho

not much hockey news in the summer

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:26 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
why you mad tho

not much hockey news in the summer
Mad? No.

Annoyed? A little.

I just think it's kinda lame to trash elkund for dumb rumors, yet people are quick to post them even though they are false and obviously made up. Call him whatever you want but he posts those bogus rumors to get more intrest in his site and many Leafs fans trash him even though they are doing exactly what he wants by discussing them. If it's obviously made up and you're going to trash the messenger, what's the point in posting in the first place. All that's doing is rewarding an obvious made up rumor that's been made up/done many times.

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:33 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
Mad? No.

Annoyed? A little.

I just think it's kinda lame to trash elkund for dumb rumors, yet people are quick to post them even though they are false and obviously made up. Call him whatever you want but he posts those bogus rumors to get more intrest in his site and many Leafs fans trash him even though they are doing exactly what he wants by discussing them. If it's obviously made up and you're going to trash the messenger, what's the point in posting in the first place. All that's doing is rewarding an obvious made up rumor that's been made up/done many times.
well there's an ignore thread button.
and who cares? it's a general rumors discussion board, what you're doing is like walking in a mall and entering conversations you don't agree with and saying everyone (leaf fans) are dumb for even talking about it.
what goes on on this board doesn't have any affect on the leafs trading for bobby ryan. so just let them have their fun with "proposals"

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:34 PM
  #61
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This would be absolutely insane for the leafs! I would definitely peg TML for the 7/8 playoff spot if Ryan was to get traded for Kaberle.
I hate leafs fans, but i support the Leafs, and if Ryan was there o doggy!

Ryan - Bozak - Kessel
Kulemin - Kadri - Versteeg
Armstrong - Grabovski - MacArthur
Orr - Hansen - Brown

Phanuef - Schenn
Komi - Gunnar
Beauch - Lebda

Giggs and Monster

THAT leafs fans, is a decent top 6.
I'm just miff bustin here, but what if PHX goes crazy and accepts a Bozak + Caputi + 1st for Kyle Turris.

Ryan - Kadri - Kessel
Armstrong - Turris - Versteeg

Don't hate, i'm jus spit ballin

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:38 PM
  #62
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this is gonna get messy

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:40 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varius View Post
While I *still* expect Ryan to remain a Duck, let's see a proposal without Kadri/Schenn to see what can be done.

Ryan

for

Kaberle
Versteeg
2012 1st round pick
Luca Caputi

Kaberle:

- We know he won't re-sign and that's actually a good thing. This year we could have Vis-Lydman, Kaberle-Sutton/Sbisa, Sutton/Sbisa-Brookbank and Festerling/Mikkelson. Pretty good depth. Next year, we hope Sbisa takes a Top-4 spot for good and someone else like Fowler, Gardiner or one of our other prospects may make it. Basically, if we got Schenn back, that would limit opportunity for our awesome D prospects pool.

- Versteeg is a versatile forward and I'm sure would fit the Anaheim style like a glove (if Anaheim decides to actually have a defined style this season heh). Versteeg - Getzlaf - Perry could probably do close to what Ryan - Getzlaf - Perry could do. With Lupul's health concerns and Selanne maybe retiring next year, we could use another Top-6 forward. Would Burke move a guy he just acquired? For this deal, I think he would.

- First rounder is an unknown; it could be an excellent pick or it could be middle of the pack. regardless, it's a 1st.

- Caputi lost some of his shine since he was drafted, but he's mostly a throw-in to this deal since Anaheim is low on prospect LWers.
Many of the objections to the asking price for Bobby Ryan was that TML would not package both Schenn and Kadri in the same deal. They didn't want to fill one need and create two others.

I wouldn't mind Versteeg in place of Kadri, and I agree that he would fit well with Getzlaf and Perry. However, we need Schenn instead of one year of Kaberle. It is always difficult to project out talent, so the chances of Anaheim's blueline prospects all making it to the NHL is unlikely. Schenn is young and has already made it to the NHL, so I like his long term potential better than a prospect who hasn't made the leap yet. If the Ducks end up with too many blueline prospects, then we can move one later in another deal. It's a good problem to have.

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:41 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medhatcanuck View Post
This would be absolutely insane for the leafs! I would definitely peg TML for the 7/8 playoff spot if Ryan was to get traded for Kaberle.
Ducks :
Quote:
Originally Posted by medhatcanuck View Post
I'm just miff bustin here, but what if PHX goes crazy and accepts a Bozak + Caputi + 1st for Kyle Turris.
Leafs :
Quote:
Originally Posted by medhatcanuck View Post
Don't hate, i'm jus spit ballin
Ah.

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:42 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Force951 View Post
What actual trade is here? Its a rumor about Ryan to the Leafs with nothing definitive. Also who is talking about a trade can't occur because what the fans think? A trade that pleases both fan bases won't be agreed to here and that's what we are talking about. Just another case of you taking everything way to literal and need to step back and actually think about what these boards are for.

This board is for fans of teams to propose trades, or try and figure out what the value is. Nobody here thinks they are actually talking for their team, and GM's from the teams don't post proposal's here or in the threads. Did i spell that out clear enough for you?
You are.

Who cares about the fan bases on here? WE DON'T ****ING MATTER.

I'm aware of exactly what this board is created for and I'm aware no one thinks that they're a GM. But you stated a trade could never occur because the fan bases couldn't agree on it. That's all I have been trying to say. I really have no idea why you're continuing to quote me and reiterate useless comments.

I'm also not sure what you're trying to spell out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canad93 View Post
ftfy.

You're mixing HF up with reality.
Thank you. This is pretty much what I've been trying to tell this kid -- he doesn't seem to comprehend basic subject matter and he keeps trying to "spell" things out for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by defer View Post
nice to meet u. but you are about 6 months behind
I was simply positing a stance on the issue -- so people don't assume I'm some rabid-Leaf fan who thinks Ryan-for-Kaberle is plausible.

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:44 PM
  #66
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I think Eklund is really just scraping the bottom of his barrel of BS with this one.

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:48 PM
  #67
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kaberle for bobby ryan is as likely as Simon Gagne for matt walker and a 4th

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:53 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Emerald Duck View Post
Many of the objections to the asking price for Bobby Ryan was that TML would not package both Schenn and Kadri in the same deal. They didn't want to fill one need and create two others.

I wouldn't mind Versteeg in place of Kadri, and I agree that he would fit well with Getzlaf and Perry. However, we need Schenn instead of one year of Kaberle. It is always difficult to project out talent, so the chances of Anaheim's blueline prospects all making it to the NHL is unlikely. Schenn is young and has already made it to the NHL, so I like his long term potential better than a prospect who hasn't made the leap yet. If the Ducks end up with too many blueline prospects, then we can move one later in another deal. It's a good problem to have.
The thing is, I think for this season, Kaberle would help us more than Schenn would and with Selanne coming back for another legit shot at contending, with Kaberle, Anaheim could contend this season I think.

Imagine the powerplay options: Visnovsky - Kaberle - Getzlaf - Perry - Selanne. No reason it cannot be a Top-5 powerplay in the league.

Also, what if Visnovsky got hurt this season? We currently have nobody to step into his role. If we had Kaberle, it's insurance against such an injury that otherwise (barring a reactionary move) may end our season.

If you consider we only need two of the following prospects to reach Top-4 status next year: Sbisa, Fowler, Gardiner, Mitera, Vatanen, Clark or even longshots like Mikkelson; I think it's safe to assume we should be able to achieve that. Not to mention other potential trades or available free agents next summer.

As much as I'd like Schenn, I think for both now and the immediate future, Kaberle+ is a better option. Schenn also had a bad year last year; it's not 100% that he'll bounce back. There is risk involved.

As for the idea of trading any of our D prospects, if they aren't able to get playing time to increase their trade value, we'd likely be giving them away for less than we should.

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Old
09-13-2010, 06:56 PM
  #69
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kaberle for bobby ryan is as likely as Simon Gagne for matt walker and a 4th
Ducks don't have serious cap/money issues.

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Old
09-13-2010, 07:09 PM
  #70
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Ducks don't have serious cap/money issues.
well for one it was sarcasm, but fine i will bite.

That might not be the problem here, but to say that there is no problem is clearly false. No problems means hes already got a contract and we are not talking about this.

Now just something to ask you, if you were in a situation as ryan is and your boss has to give you a raise(lets not even worry about the term right now). You deserve a 5$ an hour raise, but he refuses and wants to offer you a 2 $ raise and you know there are atleast 10 other companies where you can do the same thing that you are doing there and get that 5$ raise.

Now you dont want to leave, you like the building you work in, you like the people you work with, you have made friends and have got comfortable where you are, but he refuses to give you what you feel is fair and you know the other companies will. After months of negoitation you would obviously get fustriated and maybe even if he offers you that 5$ raise in the end is it worth it? You know its just going to happening again and you start to feel unwanted especially knowing that he can afford to give you that raise in the first place and just simply refuses

I think randy really screwed the pooch on this one and should've just given ryan what he wanted and kept a player of his caliber happy.

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Old
09-13-2010, 08:43 PM
  #71
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well for one it was sarcasm, but fine i will bite.

That might not be the problem here, but to say that there is no problem is clearly false. No problems means hes already got a contract and we are not talking about this.

Now just something to ask you, if you were in a situation as ryan is and your boss has to give you a raise(lets not even worry about the term right now). You deserve a 5$ an hour raise, but he refuses and wants to offer you a 2 $ raise and you know there are atleast 10 other companies where you can do the same thing that you are doing there and get that 5$ raise.

Now you dont want to leave, you like the building you work in, you like the people you work with, you have made friends and have got comfortable where you are, but he refuses to give you what you feel is fair and you know the other companies will. After months of negoitation you would obviously get fustriated and maybe even if he offers you that 5$ raise in the end is it worth it? You know its just going to happening again and you start to feel unwanted especially knowing that he can afford to give you that raise in the first place and just simply refuses

I think randy really screwed the pooch on this one and should've just given ryan what he wanted and kept a player of his caliber happy.
Good post.

Problem the Leafs have - 28 other teams recognize this as well, and would equally entertain the opportunity to acquire Ryan....and most importantly, have many more attractive trade chips to do so. Leafs could work a deal to bring Ryan to Toronto, just not one that made sense for the team long term.

Anaheim will ask to start with Schenn, and for good reason.

IMO something like Schenn+Aulie+ 1 of Reimer, Caputi or a early-mid pick would be fair value.....But the Leafs simply couldn't afford this.

Kaberle will not be the centerpiece of a Bobby Ryan trade, I don't care what Eklund says. You don't trade someone of Ryans caliber and potential for an impending UFA, albeit a good one. If Kabby had multiple years left or would sign an extension, then it could be a different story.

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Old
09-13-2010, 08:47 PM
  #72
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I don't believe the Ryan to TML rumors, but stranger things have happened.

The whole Eklund thing can be summed up as Leafs rumors (no matter how asinine) generate hits for him because of the broad number of Leafs fans out there.

As for trading players for the sake of what the fans want, just look at Montreal and the Halak affair. The fans loved him yet management dealt him anyways. That's business.

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Old
09-13-2010, 09:09 PM
  #73
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You have to remember, if Ryan DOES become available, and all Toronto will give up is Kaberle + Scrubs some team will beat it...

That's how it goes.

If Toronto wants Ryan you will see one of Schenn\Kadri and possibly one of Kaberle\Gunnarsson going the other way... it's that simple.

Leaf fans don't want to do that... fine, but I am sure some other team would give a lot more than what you guys are proposing and reality is, teams aren't a charity, they do what's best for them, not Toronto.

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Old
09-13-2010, 09:14 PM
  #74
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well for one it was sarcasm, but fine i will bite.

That might not be the problem here, but to say that there is no problem is clearly false. No problems means hes already got a contract and we are not talking about this.

Now just something to ask you, if you were in a situation as ryan is and your boss has to give you a raise(lets not even worry about the term right now). You deserve a 5$ an hour raise, but he refuses and wants to offer you a 2 $ raise and you know there are atleast 10 other companies where you can do the same thing that you are doing there and get that 5$ raise.

Now you dont want to leave, you like the building you work in, you like the people you work with, you have made friends and have got comfortable where you are, but he refuses to give you what you feel is fair and you know the other companies will. After months of negoitation you would obviously get fustriated and maybe even if he offers you that 5$ raise in the end is it worth it? You know its just going to happening again and you start to feel unwanted especially knowing that he can afford to give you that raise in the first place and just simply refuses

I think randy really screwed the pooch on this one and should've just given ryan what he wanted and kept a player of his caliber happy.
Ummm...why are you ignoring term in your analogy? That's what the issue of signing Ryan was/is.

Also, the Leafs are in a worse position than the ducks, they have way too much money and players on their blueline and have nothing upfront, and a sub-par team in general.

I'd hardly say Anaheim needs to move Ryan like Philly needed to move gagne.

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Old
09-13-2010, 09:16 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Seguins Dragon View Post
You have to remember, if Ryan DOES become available, and all Toronto will give up is Kaberle + Scrubs some team will beat it...

That's how it goes.

If Toronto wants Ryan you will see one of Schenn\Kadri and possibly one of Kaberle\Gunnarsson going the other way... it's that simple.

Leaf fans don't want to do that... fine, but I am sure some other team would give a lot more than what you guys are proposing and reality is, teams aren't a charity, they do what's best for them, not Toronto.
Exactly. As a Sens fan I'd offer Cowen, 1st, Foligno in a heartbeat which I think most Anaheim fans would prefer over a rental defenseman as the centerpiece.

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