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Pacioretty - will he make the team this year?

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Old
08-13-2010, 09:11 AM
  #101
Des Louise
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The true test is how a coach does with players who aren't damn near perfect.

Anyone can coach guys like Alfredsson, Hossa and Chara. And guys like that, who are consumate pros, try and soak in anything you give them to get better. It's certainly no proof that Martin is a good coach at developing young players.

Same thing with Subban. The kid oozes poise, character and skill. It'd take a blind and moronic man not to see it and somehow prevent the kid from being good.

The true test is when Martin had to coach guys with certain flaws. Whether it was skating, character or work ethic. Some of these young men aren't perfect. But it doesn't mean they're worthless either.

For example, let's take a look at Latendresse. The guy scored 27 goals last season. If anyone says "He wouldn't have done it here", I'll tell you it's only because Martin never thought he could and acted like it. I don't want to get into an argument about Latendresse because that horse has been beaten to death, brought back to life, killed again and then some. If you disagree that a guy that scored 27 goals in the NHL last season wasn't even deserving of a chance on the top lines for more than 2 games after he was told he was going to be traded then I don't know what to tell you.

Now the next guy he mishandled was O'byrne. He got benched for the playoffs which shouldn't have happened and when he got back he wasn't playing as well. It just sent the wrong message. Especially since we had to play MAB in his place. I can understand once Markov went down, he wanted someone on the PP but at the start of the playoffs there were no justification for benching O'byrne who had played pretty well leading to the playoffs. Not to mention he would have helped against the big Washington forwards, especially considering how they ran our goalie in game 2.

Then there's SK. You can say he has a terrible attitude and I agree. But I think considering the fact we were looking everywhere for anyone that could play on the top two lines... we should have given him a shot at the start despite his terrible attitude. If it doesn't fix itself then you trade him. This accomplishes 2 things. First you get to see what he's really made of. Second, you don't destroy his value in a trade. Heck, if it didn't fix the problem with his attitude then we could have gotten rid of him earlier which would have helped team morale instead of having him sulk around during the whole season + playoffs. But once he was sent down to the AHL it only made things worse. Boucher inherited a problem guy, the medias went into a frenzy and the message was sent loud and clear that SK was a problem for any and all teams that could have been interested.

EDIT:

Another failure of Martin considering a young player was Pacioretty. Not because Pacioretty didn't play well, but because Martin threw him in situations he was nowhere near ready for. We have a decent young player who suffered a pretty big set back in his development because of him when we had at least 2 guys who should have been there before him.

Anyway, anyone can coach top talent. It takes a special idiot to ruin guys like Alfredsson, Hossa, Chara, Subban, etc. That's not proof that Martin handles young talent well. I'll judge him on how he handles guys that don't fit his mold perfectly. So far, I'd say it's not good at all.

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Old
08-13-2010, 02:02 PM
  #102
Jakomyte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
The true test is how a coach does with players who aren't damn near perfect.

Anyone can coach guys like Alfredsson, Hossa and Chara. And guys like that, who are consumate pros, try and soak in anything you give them to get better. It's certainly no proof that Martin is a good coach at developing young players.

Same thing with Subban. The kid oozes poise, character and skill. It'd take a blind and moronic man not to see it and somehow prevent the kid from being good.

The true test is when Martin had to coach guys with certain flaws. Whether it was skating, character or work ethic. Some of these young men aren't perfect. But it doesn't mean they're worthless either.

For example, let's take a look at Latendresse. The guy scored 27 goals last season. If anyone says "He wouldn't have done it here", I'll tell you it's only because Martin never thought he could and acted like it. I don't want to get into an argument about Latendresse because that horse has been beaten to death, brought back to life, killed again and then some. If you disagree that a guy that scored 27 goals in the NHL last season wasn't even deserving of a chance on the top lines for more than 2 games after he was told he was going to be traded then I don't know what to tell you.

Now the next guy he mishandled was O'byrne. He got benched for the playoffs which shouldn't have happened and when he got back he wasn't playing as well. It just sent the wrong message. Especially since we had to play MAB in his place. I can understand once Markov went down, he wanted someone on the PP but at the start of the playoffs there were no justification for benching O'byrne who had played pretty well leading to the playoffs. Not to mention he would have helped against the big Washington forwards, especially considering how they ran our goalie in game 2.

Then there's SK. You can say he has a terrible attitude and I agree. But I think considering the fact we were looking everywhere for anyone that could play on the top two lines... we should have given him a shot at the start despite his terrible attitude. If it doesn't fix itself then you trade him. This accomplishes 2 things. First you get to see what he's really made of. Second, you don't destroy his value in a trade. Heck, if it didn't fix the problem with his attitude then we could have gotten rid of him earlier which would have helped team morale instead of having him sulk around during the whole season + playoffs. But once he was sent down to the AHL it only made things worse. Boucher inherited a problem guy, the medias went into a frenzy and the message was sent loud and clear that SK was a problem for any and all teams that could have been interested.

EDIT:

Another failure of Martin considering a young player was Pacioretty. Not because Pacioretty didn't play well, but because Martin threw him in situations he was nowhere near ready for. We have a decent young player who suffered a pretty big set back in his development because of him when we had at least 2 guys who should have been there before him.

Anyway, anyone can coach top talent. It takes a special idiot to ruin guys like Alfredsson, Hossa, Chara, Subban, etc. That's not proof that Martin handles young talent well. I'll judge him on how he handles guys that don't fit his mold perfectly. So far, I'd say it's not good at all.
Yeah, Martin 'failed' all the way to the ECF...

But I digress. I think this year is a very different year for the Habs and Pacioretty. Last year he made the team because the Habs needed someone to fill a spot in the top 6 and they though Pacioretty could do that with some time. There were not that many candidates and Martin gave Pacioretty a shot. I would argue that he did okay for a rookie, as there were definitely some games where you could see some of his potential, like the centennial vs. the Bruins (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhJMd0POtg&feature=fvsr).

This year is different. The roster has fewer openings AND there are more prospects ready to vie for spots (Eller, Maxwell, White, Desharnais, Palushaj, etc.). Pacioretty will not make the team this year unless he really beats out the other guys. To that end, I hope he makes the team, because it would suggest he is ready for it this year. On the other hand, if he is not ready, I don't think staying in the AHL for 1/2 or a full season would hurt.

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08-13-2010, 02:24 PM
  #103
Pleky Roks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
The true test is how a coach does with players who aren't damn near perfect.

Anyone can coach guys like Alfredsson, Hossa and Chara. And guys like that, who are consumate pros, try and soak in anything you give them to get better. It's certainly no proof that Martin is a good coach at developing young players.

Same thing with Subban. The kid oozes poise, character and skill. It'd take a blind and moronic man not to see it and somehow prevent the kid from being good.

The true test is when Martin had to coach guys with certain flaws. Whether it was skating, character or work ethic. Some of these young men aren't perfect. But it doesn't mean they're worthless either.

For example, let's take a look at Latendresse. The guy scored 27 goals last season. If anyone says "He wouldn't have done it here", I'll tell you it's only because Martin never thought he could and acted like it. I don't want to get into an argument about Latendresse because that horse has been beaten to death, brought back to life, killed again and then some. If you disagree that a guy that scored 27 goals in the NHL last season wasn't even deserving of a chance on the top lines for more than 2 games after he was told he was going to be traded then I don't know what to tell you.

Now the next guy he mishandled was O'byrne. He got benched for the playoffs which shouldn't have happened and when he got back he wasn't playing as well. It just sent the wrong message. Especially since we had to play MAB in his place. I can understand once Markov went down, he wanted someone on the PP but at the start of the playoffs there were no justification for benching O'byrne who had played pretty well leading to the playoffs. Not to mention he would have helped against the big Washington forwards, especially considering how they ran our goalie in game 2.

Then there's SK. You can say he has a terrible attitude and I agree. But I think considering the fact we were looking everywhere for anyone that could play on the top two lines... we should have given him a shot at the start despite his terrible attitude. If it doesn't fix itself then you trade him. This accomplishes 2 things. First you get to see what he's really made of. Second, you don't destroy his value in a trade. Heck, if it didn't fix the problem with his attitude then we could have gotten rid of him earlier which would have helped team morale instead of having him sulk around during the whole season + playoffs. But once he was sent down to the AHL it only made things worse. Boucher inherited a problem guy, the medias went into a frenzy and the message was sent loud and clear that SK was a problem for any and all teams that could have been interested.

EDIT:

Another failure of Martin considering a young player was Pacioretty. Not because Pacioretty didn't play well, but because Martin threw him in situations he was nowhere near ready for. We have a decent young player who suffered a pretty big set back in his development because of him when we had at least 2 guys who should have been there before him.

Anyway, anyone can coach top talent. It takes a special idiot to ruin guys like Alfredsson, Hossa, Chara, Subban, etc. That's not proof that Martin handles young talent well. I'll judge him on how he handles guys that don't fit his mold perfectly. So far, I'd say it's not good at all.

I kind of agree with what you said about O'Byrne. I think he should have been a regular in the lineup during the playoffs simply for his size and roughness.....you can never have enough of either of those things in the playoffs, especially when the rest of the team is so small......

but to blame Martin in any way for the lack of effort and discipline of Latendresse and Sergei......thats just bull. The coach wanted players to fit into his system and play a certain way.....and it was very obvious that neither Latendresse or Sergei could or would play that way. Both of them expected to have the world on a platter in front of them, but not put in the work to deserve it.

I'm very glad we got rid of the poor attitudes of both those players. We have a new coach, a new system and a new core of star players and those 2 kids just didn't want to fit into it.

If Latendresse can put up points like he did last season, then good for him, he found a coach, team and system that fits how he wants to play....same goes for Sergei.....but neither of them should be miss because they simply put themselves before the team....and that doesn't work ever!!!

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Old
08-13-2010, 05:43 PM
  #104
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Finally someone who gets it. People should stop labeling players based on their size but on the way they play hockey. After all, it's 15+ years of playing hockey that way that got them here in the first place.

Same thing with Kostitsyn. He's not a sniper because he's got a good shot, nor is he a power forward because he's strong. It's just not his style.

With young players, you let them develop their game first. It's what got them to the NHL. You then gradually incorporate elements into their game by making them understand how to better use their assets. But here on hfboards, you're labeled a certain type of player and then called a bust for not meeting the fans' expectations...
Difference is, MaxPac has some powerforward in him. He's just not strong enough to use his skills at the NHL level.

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08-13-2010, 05:57 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
Difference is, MaxPac has some powerforward in him. He's just not strong enough to use his skills at the NHL level.
whatever he has in him he's not using it properly in the NHL level...another year at the AHL level wouldnt hurt ... hes still what 21 years old ?

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08-13-2010, 06:04 PM
  #106
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I hope not. He was rushed last year and he really needs a year of seasoning / maturing in the AHL. He has not been able to produce points consistently at either level. That being said he was producing but I think he got injured in the AHL.
I agree - actually, he was rushed the past 2 years out of college hockey into the NHL - then AHL.

Gainey (the GM of the Century) basically did the same thing to Carey Price - is it any surprise that both Pax and Price have struggled with their respective careers at the pro level?

As questionable as Habs drafting has been, their develpoment of players has been equally questionable (also see Latendresse and Ribeiro)!



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08-13-2010, 06:52 PM
  #107
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whatever he has in him he's not using it properly in the NHL level...another year at the AHL level wouldnt hurt ... hes still what 21 years old ?
drafted in 2007... I think he's 20 or 21. I totally agree. I think Pacioretty has the skills, but much like Weber, I suspect his confidence is shot. And when your game his hitting people, scoring ugly goals and putting up big points, you need the confidence to go in front of the nets, in the corners, etc. Too bad he couldn't profit from a good year of Guy Boucher, but he should go down and dominate Hamilton this year, before he plays in Montreal again.

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08-20-2010, 10:21 AM
  #108
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I'd like to know if any1 heard from him this summer. Is he still injured; is he recovering? Has he trained hard, gained some muscle?

I was looking at some prospects/young power fowards posts recently (specially bout james neal and bobby ryan) and gosh it makes me dream. If theres one of our guys that I want to have success in the NHL, it sure is him. If he's ready to come back with the big club, I'd love to see him here. We got more depth this year which will give him way less pressure. Besides finding his scoring touch, anything he has to really improve? If the team is healthy, I believe he'll start the season in hamilton, but I'm positive we'll see him in a habs uniform again this year.

One of the guys I'm anxious to see at camp/pre-season games

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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
I also quite honestly think it's not a coincidence if each and every single of these players are considered among the most complete two-way forwards (or two-way d-men) in the game today, and all were developed per Martin.

If Sergei hadn't been that dumb, I honestly think he had everything so Martin could make wonders with him.

It'll be interesting to see how a guy like Eller will develop under him, because I really think he has all the tools required to be a Martin player.
TBH Martin isnt picky. The only thing he asks is that you work hard and be a team player. Something I noticed in the playoffs vs the Caps and Pens, is that on the TV(even tho its HD ) you could almost always see 5 habs jersey skating togheter. Thats how Martin likes his player to act on the ice

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08-20-2010, 12:36 PM
  #109
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Besides finding his scoring touch, anything he has to really improve? If the team is healthy, I believe he'll start the season in hamilton, but I'm positive we'll see him in a habs uniform again this year.
He needed strength, stability on his skate and to keep his head up. Remember how many time he got ran over last season? He had one spectacular fall every game, usually when he tried to enter the zone without noticing that the guy in front of him just stopped going backwards. I really like MaxPac though and I don't think he did nearly as bad as many make it out to be, and I think he'll be seriously competing for a spot in the line-up next year. Not sure where he will start, but he'll get his chance at some point in the season I'm sure.

I think that the problem for both Pacioretty and Weber was that their confidence got really hurt last year by the way they were used. I remember how Weber was brought up and put on D paired with Gill (who was doing aweful at this point of the season) and put on the ice at the same time as players like Chipchura-Laraque-Stewart, and surprise surprise somebody made a mistake and it turned into a goal. Absolutely nobody on the ice had the ability to make up for another's mistake, and they were all mistake-prone players. And since Weber didn't do too good in 5v5, he didn't get PP time, which was his strength. So in the end, his confidence sunk and he had a hard time to recover from it.

I honestly dislike how Martin treated Weber and O'Byrne. Pacioretty not that much though, because he was used for a long time as a 3rd-liner with Moen-Metropolit, and that's not too bad, although obviously it won't help him to produce offensively much. Still, he was kept up here too long, but then again we really lacked forward depth early last season. It should be much better this year with the additions of Eller, Boyd, and hopefully Pouliot and AK can produce.

But I don't think Martin is bad with young players in general. I think he's bad with certain players, those that just can't fit well in his system like Latendresse. But the new players coming in the next years for the Habs SHOULD be his type of players, 2-way players with speed, so I'm not too worried about it.

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Old
08-20-2010, 01:19 PM
  #110
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Up to him. If he sacks up and shows some grit, I can't see why not. He's got the tools.

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08-21-2010, 02:56 PM
  #111
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good speed with eller

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08-21-2010, 03:19 PM
  #112
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at this point I have my doubts he will ever make it in the NHL full time. Kid has a lot to prove.

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09-14-2010, 08:51 PM
  #113
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Will Max Pacioretty make the Roster and take someones spot?

From reading the interview he seems very mature and ready to play full season in nhl with having good amount of nhl games under his belt and gaining 10 pounds of muscle over the summer
Physically and mentally ready. Will he get the chance to start with the habs?

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09-14-2010, 08:54 PM
  #114
Aurel Joliat
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It's not what I heard...
He will pass the year in Hamilton

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09-14-2010, 08:56 PM
  #115
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maybe will get the call up during the season

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09-14-2010, 09:27 PM
  #116
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Could..depends on how well he performs compared to others.

Pyatt, Boyd, Eller, MaxPac, White are all fighting for a spot, I'd even add Lappy to that list.
Darche will be scratched for a good number of games as well.

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09-14-2010, 09:45 PM
  #117
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I would love him to do this, but realistically hes gonna be in Hamilton.

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09-14-2010, 09:51 PM
  #118
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It's not what I heard...
He will pass the year in Hamilton
So please, share with us. What DID you hear?

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09-14-2010, 09:53 PM
  #119
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From reading the interview he seems very mature and ready to play full season in nhl with having good amount of nhl games under his belt and gaining 10 pounds of muscle over the summer
Physically and mentally ready. Will he get the chance to start with the habs?
Yes, I do believe that Paciorretty will make the team and Darche and Lapierre will spend the year in Hamilton - remember there is a conspiracy to keep Quebecois players off this team.

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09-14-2010, 09:58 PM
  #120
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Yes, I do believe that Paciorretty will make the team and Darche and Lapierre will spend the year in Hamilton - remember there is a conspiracy to keep Quebecois players off this team.
If two french guys from the Habs go on waivers Steveie Y will cream his pants and faint.

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09-14-2010, 10:34 PM
  #121
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let him go to hamilton and see if he can score there

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09-14-2010, 10:48 PM
  #122
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I say yes. If not out of camp, he's up to stay by Christmas. Otherwise it's off to St. Louis or Tampa Bay.

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09-14-2010, 11:13 PM
  #123
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let him go to hamilton and see if he can score there
55 GP 8 goals, 31 assists 39 points

Don't think he's a scorer at that level either. He hasn't had more than 10 goals in a season since he left the NCAA where he tore it up with 15.

Patches will never be a point producer in a league that matters. Lets just pray he can be useful at the NHL level cuz we already won the Rivet trade.

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09-15-2010, 07:24 AM
  #124
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I'd like for Pacioretty to be the surprise of the year and make the team. It probably won't happen as it's just my wishful thinking. At times he's shown some good skill but then always seemed to end up crashing into the boards.

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09-15-2010, 07:34 AM
  #125
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Hi,

I liked what I saw from Pacioretty the few times I've seen him. I am wondering if Hans fans expect him to make the team this year? If not, is he in the plans? And when?

Thanks
I hope they send him to Hamilton, he's spent too much time in the nHL his first 2 years and it's slowed his development. I think he needs a half year if not a full year getting top line minutes in the AHL rather than a bottom 6 role here. Adding some muscle and being healthy this year hopefully will get him back on track to be a top 6 calibre winger(40-60 points/year).

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