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Report: "screaming matches" with DeBoer led to Ballard trade

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Old
09-16-2010, 10:27 AM
  #51
Holy Jokinen
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Originally Posted by whoisournextbure View Post
well i dont think tallon would come out his first week and say the opposite, so idk how much of that he really meant.
we'll just have to wait and see
Well, while he might not say that, he could easily fire PDB and bring in someone else.

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Old
09-16-2010, 11:43 AM
  #52
Erick
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
This is the Florida Panthers we are talking about. Things aren't done the same damnit. If you don't realize that, you're either new, naive, or playing the dumb card.

Word it how you want, but truth of the matter is Kitchen WAS NOT a DeBoer guy. He might have kept him around, but he did not pick him. Might he have helped him transition to the NHL, sure, not denying that, but he was a ****** JM layover all the way, no denying that either.
DeBoer chose to keep Kitchen on his staff.
I don't know why you deny this.

Martin specifically said at the time DeBoer was hired that DeBoer would get to choose his assistants, or at least play a big part in who his assistants were. Just like any other NHL coach.

When the Panthers hired DeBoer, they fully trusted him. They were building around him. Do you not remember all the talk?

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09-16-2010, 11:47 AM
  #53
CHGoalie27
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post


oh the lengths you'll go to, my man! excellent try.
Nice reply...no substance. BUT YET ANOTHER SMILEY FACE! I should've expected that.

Wanna try again?
(I know you're capable of a much better response, whether I end up in agreement or not)


Last edited by CHGoalie27: 09-16-2010 at 12:26 PM.
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Old
09-16-2010, 12:33 PM
  #54
zeroG
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
Nice reply...no substance. BUT YET ANOTHER SMILEY FACE! I should've expected that.

Wanna try again?
(I know you're capable of a much better response, whether I end up in agreement or not)
really, man...

lack of chemistry with his partner forced ballard to turn the puck over w/o pressure time after time? that's all i got.

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09-16-2010, 12:49 PM
  #55
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You guys need to get a room. Just admit it, you love each other. The sexual tension between you two can be cut with a knife.

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Old
09-16-2010, 12:57 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
I wonder what Mike Duco thinks of all this.

I love that fireball, hopefully we actually use him before we lose him to someone that will.
I heard the Leafs are still looking for the next Tie Domi.

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Old
09-16-2010, 01:01 PM
  #57
CHGoalie27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
really, man...

lack of chemistry with his partner forced ballard to turn the puck over w/o pressure time after time? that's all i got.
Really! That was fine...and yes it easily could force him into giving the puck away...back to seeing all available/unavailable options that tv might not cover...

First example that comes to mind, everyone hated Kovalev as he constantly gave the puck away "without pressure" while playing with the likes of an immature Savard, Bill Berg and Harry York(downgrade from Messier and Graves?)....then he joined up with Straka and Lang in Pittsburgh and became what everyone knew he could be...then sent from Pitts back to crappy chemistry and mediocre stats ever since...

Remember, not comparing anything except the need for chemistry situation...I see it like
Kovalev 94 Rangers = Ballard 09 Panthers (they were with capable players)
Kovalev 98 Rangers = Ballard 10 Panthers (they were expected to turn crap into gold)

If his teammates gave him nothing to pass to, what do you really expect him(or anyone that's not Ovechkin) to do?

Another reason I don't agree with the "First liner-4th liners" thing.

Ballard and Boynton individually are probably 2nd and 3rd liners....together they looked to be our 1st, IMO rightfully so.
Bouwmeester may be a first liner, but he played like a 2nd or 3rd liner when it counted...no?

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09-16-2010, 01:29 PM
  #58
CHGoalie27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
You guys need to get a room. Just admit it, you love each other. The sexual tension between you two can be cut with a knife.
LOL ohhh yeth!!!

Seriously though, I don't dislike him one bit. He'd easily get a handshake, smile, and a beer outta me if he came to the BAC...(no you sickos, not recycled beer! I mean in a cup straight from the bottle)

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Old
09-16-2010, 01:41 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
You guys need to get a room. Just admit it, you love each other. The sexual tension between you two can be cut with a knife.
Agreed! Either they kill each other or they make up...whatever happens we win

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Old
09-16-2010, 01:44 PM
  #60
Erick
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I just find it funny someone continually is willing to defend Ballard's play last year.
Then again, this isn't surprising. This is the same guy who wanted MacIntyre on the 1st line at one point last year.

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09-16-2010, 01:57 PM
  #61
CHGoalie27
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
I just find it funny someone continually is willing to defend Ballard's play last year.
Then again, this isn't surprising. This is the same guy who wanted MacIntyre on the 1st line at one point last year.
Way to steal someone's lines again...never said he had a good year. I said he was the least worst.

I stick by it still. I need more reasons than "It just wouldn't work" or "He's too slow (to stay put in front???)" (Mac that is not Ballard)


Last edited by CHGoalie27: 09-17-2010 at 11:52 AM.
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Old
09-16-2010, 02:02 PM
  #62
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Agreed! Either they kill each other or they make up...whatever happens we win
Win what?

Make up? Is one upset at the other?

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Old
09-16-2010, 02:28 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
I just find it funny someone continually is willing to defend Ballard's play last year.
Then again, this isn't surprising. This is the same guy who wanted MacIntyre on the 1st line at one point last year.
even ballard admitted he sucked *** last year...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
Win what?

Make up? Is one upset at the other?
no.

if we kill each other though, they don't have to hear any more harebrained ideas like big mac on the first line or hear me try to argue against said ideas for the sake of it

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Old
09-16-2010, 02:32 PM
  #64
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The issue with Boynton and the team suspension was that Boynton got physical. He pushed the coach (I want to say it was Kitchen, maybe trying to get to Deboer, but it was too long ago to recall the exact facts so it might have been DeB). Either way Boynton pushed a coach and that was the issue, not the screaming match alone.

This is from inside for those of you who continually question me on this stuff.

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Old
09-16-2010, 03:17 PM
  #65
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My take on all of this. Whether Scotty Bowman or Bozo the Clown were coaching this particular roster this season, the results would be the same.

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Old
09-16-2010, 03:21 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Great8Cam View Post
The issue with Boynton and the team suspension was that Boynton got physical. He pushed the coach (I want to say it was Kitchen, maybe trying to get to Deboer, but it was too long ago to recall the exact facts so it might have been DeB). Either way Boynton pushed a coach and that was the issue, not the screaming match alone.

This is from inside for those of you who continually question me on this stuff.
Thanks for the info, I did not know that's what it came to with Boynton.

Can you tell us anything more about what happened with Ballard?

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Old
09-16-2010, 05:25 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by whoisournextbure View Post
i just dont think pdb and tallon has the same type of hockey in their plans... i see tallon trying to build a gritty team with hard workers, when in the past 2 seasons pdb has only given those type of players (tarnasty, mcardle, belak, duco etc) a small number of minutes per game.. because he doesnt know how to use them.

I believe just like some other poster said, he wont get fired this season due to money reasons, but his contract is up after this one and im hoping we get a tallon type of coach or maybe weber, but we'll see how he does in rochester first...
I may be mistaken, but I think Pete has 2 seasons left on his contract?

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Old
09-16-2010, 07:34 PM
  #68
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debouer is an amateur coach with the ego of a cup winning coach. We were well on the way to the playoffs two seasons ago until he wanted to make an example of Boynton, a very popular player in the room, and then lost the whole team. Watch Horton and Ballard flourish away from him while we'll be looking for a new coach. Much like everything else martin did, he was a lousy hire and my hope is that at least Tallon was smart enough to bring in Skrudland for when he gets rid of this bum. Maybe then we'll actually protect our players and play with a little heart.

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Old
09-16-2010, 09:38 PM
  #69
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PDB has some issues to worry about IMO.
-- There is substantial pressure to do better than last year, because with a weaker roster (on paper) coaching has to step up.
-- If Horton and Ballard do well, it will reflect poorly on PDB, fair or not.
-- If Wideman, Grabner and Bernier suck, it may well be perceived as a PDB coaching problem and not a DT trade problem
-- If Kitchen does NOT do well, it will also reflect poorly on PDB.
-- There's the ugly hangover from the Boynton incident, being revisited because of Ballard. Can he handle professionals?

I'm probably leaving some problems off the list. Point is though, PDB's job may not be as secure as people think, especially if a good coach is available.

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Old
09-16-2010, 09:58 PM
  #70
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I honestly don't see where a lot of you are coming from with the whole Boynton/PDB situation. You'd think Boynton was the second coming of Bobby Orr for us or something Or,that he was the glue that kept the whole team together. He was already on his downslide with us,we got what we could out of him.

My question to all of you..what has he done since leaving the Panthers? That's what I thought.

Being a coach,from what I've heard/read on this subject...I'll take Coach Deboer's side everyday of the week.

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09-16-2010, 10:11 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by CanadianPantherFan View Post
I honestly don't see where a lot of you are coming from with the whole Boynton/PDB situation. You'd think Boynton was the second coming of Bobby Orr for us or something Or,that he was the glue that kept the whole team together. He was already on his downslide with us,we got what we could out of him.

My question to all of you..what has he done since leaving the Panthers? That's what I thought.

Being a coach,from what I've heard/read on this subject...I'll take Coach Deboer's side everyday of the week.
Well he did win a Stanley Cup...

I get your point though. I'm not excusing Boynton, but that whole incident couldn't have been one sided.

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Old
09-17-2010, 02:14 AM
  #72
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Link.

No quotes, but Ballard and DeBoer deny the article's claims. Allen and Booth back up DeBoer's coaching.

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Old
09-17-2010, 02:59 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KWGoon View Post
PDB has some issues to worry about IMO.
-- There is substantial pressure to do better than last year, because with a weaker roster (on paper) coaching has to step up.
-- If Horton and Ballard do well, it will reflect poorly on PDB, fair or not.
-- If Wideman, Grabner and Bernier suck, it may well be perceived as a PDB coaching problem and not a DT trade problem
-- If Kitchen does NOT do well, it will also reflect poorly on PDB.
-- There's the ugly hangover from the Boynton incident, being revisited because of Ballard. Can he handle professionals?

I'm probably leaving some problems off the list. Point is though, PDB's job may not be as secure as people think, especially if a good coach is available.
Kitchens is not here, Murphy is.

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Old
09-17-2010, 06:02 AM
  #74
Clint
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I just want to point out that we're pretty much slated to finish around bottom 3 this season, so it stands to reason that PDB is going to be shown the door pretty much no matter what happens. This season is either going to be a disaster because we lose so much, or a disaster because we don't finish with a top 3 pick.

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Old
09-17-2010, 06:03 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KWGoon View Post
PDB has some issues to worry about IMO.
-- There is substantial pressure to do better than last year, because with a weaker roster (on paper) coaching has to step up.
-- If Horton and Ballard do well, it will reflect poorly on PDB, fair or not.
-- If Wideman, Grabner and Bernier suck, it may well be perceived as a PDB coaching problem and not a DT trade problem
-- If Kitchen does NOT do well, it will also reflect poorly on PDB.
-- There's the ugly hangover from the Boynton incident, being revisited because of Ballard. Can he handle professionals?

I'm probably leaving some problems off the list. Point is though, PDB's job may not be as secure as people think, especially if a good coach is available.
Point by point, i am going to humiliate you.

There is no pressure on Deboer in a standings sense. Very few stakeholders, whether it be fans, management or press, expect the Panthers to be a competitive team this year. If last year we were a lottery team, then this year we are also a lottery team. From this perspective, PDB actually has less pressure on actual results.

If Horton and Ballard do well, sure it puts some question marks on our coaches ability to extract maximum capacity. But then it works both ways. PDB coached Horton to his best ever season last year ; and with Horton, its about more about him than the coach he has. Ballard had a terrible year, and i am at a loss to explain why.

Wideman had an awful year. Much like Ballard, he is on a recovery mission. Bernier will suck ; expect it. His influence on Grabner shall be the interesting one.

There shouldn't be a hangover from the Boynton incident because it happened a year and a half ago.

Judging PDB is hard. But its certainly unfair to base his position and tenure on the year upcoming, because the roster is going to be one of the worst in the NHL. Until PDB has a solid roster to work with, or it becomes very apparent that within the dressing room their is significant discontent with him, assessing PDB and deciding to relieve him of his duties seems a little brash.

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