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Part XII: Phx Coyotes - Still haven't found what I'm looking for

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Old
09-16-2010, 05:05 PM
  #1
Whileee
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Part XII: Phx Coyotes - Still haven't found what I'm looking for

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
I heard this interview before.

Others seem to have construed your remarks to constitute a statement that IEH never intended to purchase the team - at all (hence the "vindicated" comments that have followed).

I am hoping you will confirm, Whileee, that this is not what you intended to convey. the reason why i hope this is because, if it is not and you are saying that Jones stated they never really intended to purchase the team, then you would be engaging in 100% mischaracterization bordering on fabrication. He said no such thing, of course.

I hope you will clarify your post accordingly.
GSC... Now look what you made me do. I had to start a whole new thread to respond.

What I conveyed was that Jones indicated that the IEH group had not been interested in ownership in an NHL franchise, but that they became interested in the opportunity presented by the bankruptcy proceedings. I also think it is fair to say that he suggested that the subsequent developments altered the landscape and diminished their avidity and/or ability to pursue this. I am paraphrasing, of course. I think that he used the term "intrigued", rather than "interested".

I don't think that what I posted conveyed that they never intended to purchase the team. It is obvious that they did, though I think that the implication of his statement of "intrigue" in the context of the bankruptcy situation suggests that they hoped to be able to do so with less investment and less risk through a clean start on lease provisions and other financial considerations. Perhaps he meant that they had misjudged the opportunity.

I stand by my interpretation that IEH probably knew that their financial capacity was marginal, and that had they been more explicit about their financial capacity prior to being forced to do so it would have made the situation clearer for Glendale. Do you disagree?

I don't have much control over how others interpret my posts, nor how you do, evidently.

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09-16-2010, 05:13 PM
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^ One thing I definitely felt was he was trying to soften how IEH was no longer the primary party interested in purchasing the Yotes



(nice title btw Whileee )

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09-16-2010, 05:20 PM
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In response to the viewership discussion:

Are the stats for viewership not tallied by household? How then would they measure how many people are in each household watching said game? You could have a packed house watching a game.

As well, how about all of the watering holes across the country, from favourite sports bars to hole in the walls that televise the games, how many people are watching there?

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics."

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09-16-2010, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post
^ One thing I definitely felt was he was trying to soften how IEH was no longer the primary party interested in purchasing the Yotes



(nice title btw Whileee )
Yes, he was clear that they were no longer key players "in the game". My overall impression is that the IEH group sort of thought that this might be a "moonshot", but it was worth trying because of the unpredictability of the bankruptcy situation. I think that as they got more deeply involved they found that there remained significant financial obligations and liabilities that could not be easily swept away, and perhaps found that they had bitten off more than they could chew. Nonetheless, they probably received some encouragement along the way (at least from Glendale). In this regard, I think that Glendale was delinquent in ascertaining IEH's financial capacity earlier. It probably dawned on Glendale that they might not have the financial capacity when they presented an MOU proposal that specified that Glendale would guarantee the bank's loan to purchase the team, even though Glendale has reportedly told them repeatedly that that this was a non-starter.

The end result was a lot of needless wandering through the wilderness. And if Glendale's decision to put up the $25 million for this year was based on expectations that IEH could come through, then they obviously misjudged the situation, and IEH must bear some responsibility for that.

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09-16-2010, 05:56 PM
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IEH has said almost from the start that they were a group put together to look into the opportunities in sports team ownership but not really at the major league level. They then stumbled upon an opportunity, the Coyotes' bankrupcty, to look into whether an NHL team might be a possibility.

The problem is that some on here have taken a quote that just reiterates what has been common knowledge for quite awhile and celebrated it as if it were some kind of recent revelation or admission.

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09-16-2010, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberta Yote View Post
IEH has said almost from the start that they were a group put together to look into the opportunities in sports team ownership but not really at the major league level. They then stumbled upon an opportunity, the Coyotes' bankrupcty, to look into whether an NHL team might be a possibility.

The problem is that some on here have taken a quote that just reiterates what has been common knowledge for quite awhile and celebrated it as if it were some kind of recent revelation or admission.

Well, when you go spouting off, or maybe tweeting off, that a purchase is imminent, you might see why people might have considered them as a viable option.

Are you saying that you never believed IEH was going to be a player? (Honest question. I don't remember your specific view on the matter.)

 
Old
09-16-2010, 06:05 PM
  #7
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People rich enough to purchase professional sports franchises don't feel the need to defend themselves via twitter, and even if they did they'd pay someone to do it for them. If the media had been accusing Reinsdorf of being an empty suit with no capital he'd surely laugh and take a swim in his giant pool of money. The fact that IEH have been so thin-skinned throughout this ordeal has been a red-flag to me from the start.

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09-16-2010, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Well, when you go spouting off, or maybe tweeting off, that a purchase is imminent, you might see why people might have considered them as a viable option.

Are you saying that you never believed IEH was going to be a player? (Honest question. I don't remember your specific view on the matter.)
Moreover, I think it is fair to say that opinion on these boards was divided over the veracity of IEH's pronouncements that they had provided proof of their financial capacity to Glendale in June.

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09-16-2010, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy_Eyez View Post
People rich enough to purchase professional sports franchises don't feel the need to defend themselves via twitter, and even if they did they'd pay someone to do it for them. If the media had been accusing Reinsdorf of being an empty suit with no capital he'd surely laugh and take a swim in his giant pool of money. The fact that IEH have been so thin-skinned throughout this ordeal has been a red-flag to me from the start.
Maybe Hulsizer can pay DJ to do this now

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09-16-2010, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Well, when you go spouting off, or maybe tweeting off, that a purchase is imminent, you might see why people might have considered them as a viable option.

Are you saying that you never believed IEH was going to be a player? (Honest question. I don't remember your specific view on the matter.)
Does blind optimism count as belief?

And yes, I'm willing to go there all over again.

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09-16-2010, 06:40 PM
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I have always held the belief that IEH were nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Because of that, I also believe that their "buddy" Hulsizer( sorry, forgot his first name) would fall under the same category EXCEPT for the fact that he actually does have money. However, I do not think that he got that way by throwing away his money just to help out his drinking buddies. Having said that, I do believe that IEH make for great comedy as their twitting has shown us.

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09-16-2010, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post
Maybe Hulsizer can pay DJ to do this now
IEH's "intellectual capital" = DJ's tweets.

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09-16-2010, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberta Yote View Post
The problem is that some on here have taken a quote that just reiterates what has been common knowledge for quite awhile and celebrated it as if it were some kind of recent revelation or admission.
Given the vociferous, aggressive, and sometimes outright rude dismissal of posters who have been pointing out IEH's clear lack of financial wherewithal - right up to a few days ago - it sure seems to have been a "recent revelation" to more than a few folks.

I feel empathy for fans like scottrocks who clearly have a passion for the game. IMO the worst aspect of this mess is the rollercoaster of despair they've been put through for something that was never anything more than a charade.

 
Old
09-16-2010, 06:46 PM
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09-16-2010, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
GSC... Now look what you made me do. I had to start a whole new thread to respond.
Nicely titled.

Quote:
What I conveyed was that Jones indicated that the IEH group had not been interested in ownership in an NHL franchise, but that they became interested in the opportunity presented by the bankruptcy proceedings. I also think it is fair to say that he suggested that the subsequent developments altered the landscape and diminished their avidity and/or ability to pursue this. I am paraphrasing, of course. I think that he used the term "intrigued", rather than "interested".

I don't think that what I posted conveyed that they never intended to purchase the team. It is obvious that they did, though I think that the implication of his statement of "intrigue" in the context of the bankruptcy situation suggests that they hoped to be able to do so with less investment and less risk through a clean start on lease provisions and other financial considerations. Perhaps he meant that they had misjudged the opportunity.
No, i did think that you had conveyed that which you posted above. I was simply trying to note for the record - inartfully, perhaps - that others had taken your post summarizing the interview and misinterpreted what you said rather drastically. I agree that is not your fault. My main point was "you people have misinterpreted Whileee's post completely", but I did not want to say that until I made certain that my interpretation was correct.

I would also agree that your summary as articulated above is more or less accurate (I could quibble about minor points, but it is immaterial, as I agree with the gist).

Quote:
I stand by my interpretation that IEH probably knew that their financial capacity was marginal, and that had they been more explicit about their financial capacity prior to being forced to do so it would have made the situation clearer for Glendale. Do you disagree?
Given that they made an offer back in August 2009 of $140M+, in the early days of their involvement, relatively speaking, I would say that your suggestion is unsupported by the facts (that one that I cited in particular). I reject the idea that their financial capacity was marginal. Certainly nothing in the Jones interview suggested a confirmation of that thesis. Mod: deleted.

Quote:
I don't have much control over how others interpret my posts, nor how you do, evidently.
Agreed. I am pleased that I had understood your post in the first place.


Last edited by Fugu: 09-16-2010 at 08:16 PM. Reason: if you believe X, then Y....Rule #1.
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09-16-2010, 07:17 PM
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A moment of silence, please ...

To remember the passing of of yet another Roman Numeral ...

05-05-2009 Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes
05-07-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part II
05-18-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part III
05-22-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part IV
06-03-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part V
06-09-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VI
06-12-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VII: I'm just waitin' on a judge
06-16-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VIII: It's dead, Jim
06-24-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part IX: 'Dorf on Hockey
07-25-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part X: The Truth? You Can't Handle The Truth!
08-03-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XI: A Fistful of Dollars?
08-07-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XII: For a Few Dollars More
08-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIII: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
08-21-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIV: The Wrath of Baum
08-27-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XV - SITREP: SNAFU
09-02-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVI: Barbarian at the Gate
09-08-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVII: Wake Me Up When September Ends
09-10-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVIII: Is that a pale horse in the distance?
09-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy Part XIX: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Baum
09-21-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XX: There Will Be Baum
09-28-2009Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXI: 2009 -- A Sports Odyssey
10-26-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXII: Long and winding road

11-24-2009 Keeping up with potential owners for NHL Phoenix Coyotes (UPD: Ice Edge signs LOI)
03-14-2010 Part II. Potential owners of NHL's Phoenix Coyotes
03-26-2010 Part III. Prospective Owners - Phoenix Coyotes (UPD Lease vote 4/13; IEH signs MOU)
04-10-2010 Part IV Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy; UPD COG approves Reinsdorf MOU, not IEH MOU
05-02-2010 Part V Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy UPD Reinsdorf out? IEH back in? else Winnipeg?
05-11-2010 Part VI Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy
05-23-2010 Part VII Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy
06-07-2010 Part VIII: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankrtuptcy
06-22-2010 Part IX: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankruptcy UPD: Pres Moss fired 6/30 with IEH input
07-26-2010 Part X: Phoenix Coyotes - Between Scylla and Charybdis
08-27-2010 Part XI: Phoenix Coyotes -- Greetings, Starfighter, You have been selected ...
09-16-2010 Part XII: Phx Coyotes - Still haven't found what I'm looking for

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09-16-2010, 07:23 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
Given that they made an offer back in August 2009 of $140M+, in the early days of their involvement, relatively speaking, I would say that your suggestion is unsupported by the facts (that one that I cited in particular). I reject the idea that their financial capacity was marginal. Certainly nothing in the Jones interview suggested a confirmation of that thesis. It remains primarily (though not entirely) a theory of silly, silly people who think of IEH as "frat boys" or penniless "day-traders".

It is probably irrelevant whether you and I agree on their financial capacity, since neither of us are in a position to make that assessment. Suffice to say that to those that matter, chiefly the City of Glendale, have publicly indicated that IEH could not or would not provide evidence of their financial capacity, and that they have therefore been eliminated as an ownership group. My main point is that this discovery should have come much earlier in the process, and I suppose that both the City of Glendale and IEH bear some responsibility for that.

I have never characterized IEH is such derogatory terms, though I have pointed out some actions and ideas proposed by them that I believe have been somewhat silly.

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09-16-2010, 07:30 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
It is probably irrelevant whether you and I agree on their financial capacity, since neither of us are in a position to make that assessment. Suffice to say that to those that matter, chiefly the City of Glendale, have publicly indicated that IEH could not or would not provide evidence of their financial capacity, and that they have therefore been eliminated as an ownership group. My main point is that this discovery should have come much earlier in the process, and I suppose that both the City of Glendale and IEH bear some responsibility for that.
I don't think the CoG, or IEH, or anyone with 1st hand knowledge, has suggested that they could not or would not provide said evidence, or that they have been "eliminated" (which I would take to mean that the CoG has knocked them out). IEH has indicated that they are no longer the primary prospective purchaser, but not for financial reasons.

Quote:
I have never characterized IEH is such derogatory terms, though I have pointed out some actions and ideas proposed by them that I believe have been somewhat silly.
True, you did not. It was for that very reason that you would correctly respond thusly that I used the phrase "primarily (but not entirely)". And bolded/undelined it, even.

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09-16-2010, 08:21 PM
  #19
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To remember the passing of of yet another Roman Numeral ...

05-05-2009 Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes
05-07-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part II
05-18-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part III
05-22-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part IV
06-03-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part V
06-09-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VI
06-12-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VII: I'm just waitin' on a judge
06-16-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VIII: It's dead, Jim
06-24-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part IX: 'Dorf on Hockey
07-25-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part X: The Truth? You Can't Handle The Truth!
08-03-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XI: A Fistful of Dollars?
08-07-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XII: For a Few Dollars More
08-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIII: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
08-21-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIV: The Wrath of Baum
08-27-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XV - SITREP: SNAFU
09-02-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVI: Barbarian at the Gate
09-08-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVII: Wake Me Up When September Ends
09-10-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVIII: Is that a pale horse in the distance?
09-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy Part XIX: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Baum
09-21-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XX: There Will Be Baum
09-28-2009Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXI: 2009 -- A Sports Odyssey
10-26-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXII: Long and winding road

I just want to take credit (who, moi?) for starting off the naming of threads. As I recall, I had a Rolling Stones song going through my head every time I thought about how we were all sitting around waiting for that judge to do something.




Something that may still apply?

 
Old
09-16-2010, 08:27 PM
  #20
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A clear omen was during the pinnacle of IEH's imminent purchase when the NHL played dumb and talked about multiple interested parties (seemingly ignoring IEH). Considering how desperate Bettman is (was) to keep the team in Phx, GB should've been IEH's #1 supporter - but wasn't - and in fact seemed to pretend they weren't the frontrunners.

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09-16-2010, 08:29 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Alberta Yote View Post
Does blind optimism count as belief?

And yes, I'm willing to go there all over again.

As is your right. I understand it's been a rough year, but I cannot say I know what the Yotes fans have had to endure emotionally. It doesn't seem something we'd wish on anyone.

 
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09-16-2010, 08:32 PM
  #22
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It's unbelievable to see how much this topic has been debated, talked about, argued, screamed about, cried about, cajoled, and jabbered on about into over 30,000 posts...

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09-16-2010, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
It is probably irrelevant whether you and I agree on their financial capacity, since neither of us are in a position to make that assessment. Suffice to say that to those that matter, chiefly the City of Glendale, have publicly indicated that IEH could not or would not provide evidence of their financial capacity, and that they have therefore been eliminated as an ownership group. My main point is that this discovery should have come much earlier in the process, and I suppose that both the City of Glendale and IEH bear some responsibility for that.
I couldn't agree more. Based on the NHL's tepid reaction to IEH throughout, I suspect that they knew all along tat IEH did not have the financial wherewithal to buy the team. I would be surprised if they did not share this sentiment with the City. However, the City heard what they wanted to hear from IEH (we have the money and a much better deal for you), and now they are going to pay the price, whether that is a new owner who has them over a barrel or the loss of the franchise.

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09-16-2010, 09:19 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post

As I recall, I had a Rolling Stones song going through my head every time I thought about how we were all sitting around waiting for that judge to do something.
Works for me.

Sad Day?
Shattered?
19th Nervous Breakdown?
Paint it Black?.

Daryl Jones as the The Under Assistant Westcoast Promotion Man?.
Were all just waiting to see what gifts Decembers Children might bring to Phoenix.

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09-16-2010, 11:02 PM
  #25
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Ugh part 12?
Holy shot batman

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