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Old
09-18-2010, 11:23 AM
  #1
TonySCV
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New Hockey's Future Top 20 List

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...angeles_kings/

Discuss.

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Old
09-18-2010, 12:02 PM
  #2
BigBrown
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Looks like a lot of work, nice job

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Old
09-18-2010, 12:10 PM
  #3
AKAY47
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There's absolutely nothing wrong with those rankings, well done

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Old
09-18-2010, 12:12 PM
  #4
DeeMeck
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Our list:

1. Bernier- 87.21%
2. Schenn- 86.36%
3. Hickey- 62.22%
4. Forbort- 36.36%
5. Vyacheslav Voynov- 35.96%
6. Loktionov- 63.16%
7. Clifford- 56.47%
8. Teubert- 34.38%
9. Deslauriers- 29.35%
10. Kozun- 32.47%
11. Toffoli- 28.21%
12. Jones- 29.41%
13. Muzzin- 37.35%
14. Zatkoff- 50.85%
15. Lewis- 31.25%
16. Weal- 28.57%
17. Martinez- 34.48%
18. Holloway- 29.63%
19. Czarnik- 39.58%
20. Kitsyn

1. (2) Jonathan Bernier, G, 8.0B
2. (1) Brayden Schenn, C, 8.0C
3. (NR) Derek Forbort, D, 7.5C
4. (6) Andrei Loktionov, C, 7.5C
5. (3) Thomas Hickey, D, 7.5C
6. (4) Vyacheslav Voynov, D, 7.5C
7. (5) Colten Teubert, D, 7.0C
8. (13) Kyle Clifford, LW, 7.0C
9. (12) Nicolas Deslauriers, D, 7.0C
10. (NR) Tyler Toffoli, RW, 7.0C
11. (8) Martin Jones, G, 7.0C
12. (10) Jeff Zatkoff, G, 7.0C
13. (17) Brandon Kozun, RW, 7.0D
14. (20) Jake Muzzin, D, 6.5C
15. (11) Alec Martinez, D, 6.0B
16. (NR) Jordan Weal, C, 6.5C
17. (7) Davis Drewiske, D, 6.0B
18. (16) Trevor Lewis, C, 6.0C
19. (NR) Bud Holloway, C, 6.0C
20. (NR) Maxim Kitsyn, LW, 7.0D


I think we did pretty good. we nailed most of these guys within a couple spots of HF, and a surprising number dead on.

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Old
09-18-2010, 12:37 PM
  #5
kingsfan
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No problem with the rankings. I think we'll see a significant amount of movement over them in the next 9 months though, due to graduation, trade and performance from some younger guys like Toffoli and Kitsyn.

The only thing I saw I didn't like, and I only skimmed through it, but in Hickey's write up he's referred to as "oft-injured". I've seen that here too, and I don't get it. Outside of one bad injury last year, where does the oft-injured labal come from? He's never missed any significant time in his playing career minus last season, and one injury isn't worthy of being called oft-injured.

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Old
09-18-2010, 01:16 PM
  #6
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Looks good. I like it better than our list. Good work.

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Old
09-18-2010, 01:20 PM
  #7
KopitarFAN
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FML. I forgot Drewiske, sorry guys.

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Old
09-18-2010, 01:33 PM
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Stupid Sexy Flanders
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Hickey would be the only major quibble. First, there's no reason for him to drop from last year. Second, his ceiling is quite a bit higher than 7.5. Actually all the numerical rankings of the top guys look a tick or two low. Bernier's not a 9?

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Old
09-18-2010, 01:42 PM
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DeeMeck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
FML. I forgot Drewiske, sorry guys.
Easy oversight...He has played alot more games than Moller who wasn't there either. I really don't look at him as a prospect anymore.

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Old
09-18-2010, 01:47 PM
  #10
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My only gripe is that Moller should still be a prospect. I understand HF needs to have some sort of criteria to define a prospect, but sometimes you have to take things on a case by case basis. The Kings' organization certainly considers him to be a prospect.

Other than that, I think Lewis is somewhat underrated.

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Old
09-18-2010, 02:00 PM
  #11
Josh Deitell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
No problem with the rankings. I think we'll see a significant amount of movement over them in the next 9 months though, due to graduation, trade and performance from some younger guys like Toffoli and Kitsyn.

The only thing I saw I didn't like, and I only skimmed through it, but in Hickey's write up he's referred to as "oft-injured". I've seen that here too, and I don't get it. Outside of one bad injury last year, where does the oft-injured labal come from? He's never missed any significant time in his playing career minus last season, and one injury isn't worthy of being called oft-injured.
In addition to the shoulder surgery he just underwent and the broken ankle which kept him out of most of the playoffs, he suffered an ankle injury in March of 2008 that he played through which ended up being major and required surgery in the offseason.

Gann Matsuda did a good write up on it here: http://frozenroyalty.net/2008/07/30/...-all-fired-up/

I believe he also suffered a concussion during the WHL playoffs once but I can't find a source to confirm that.

My concern is that he may have caused further damage by playing through both his shoulder and ankle injuries. It's not a good habit to establish.

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Old
09-18-2010, 02:09 PM
  #12
Josh Deitell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupid Sexy Flanders View Post
Hickey would be the only major quibble. First, there's no reason for him to drop from last year. Second, his ceiling is quite a bit higher than 7.5. Actually all the numerical rankings of the top guys look a tick or two low. Bernier's not a 9?
His ranking hasn't dropped, I just think that certain players in the same range played better than him last season. As for the ranking, a 7.5 puts him somewhere between the top and middle pairings, which seems fair. He hasn't shown anything at the professional level that would lead me to believe he has top pairing potential, although the sample size for him is pretty small. Rankings fluctuate: if he plays well enough in the AHL next season to deserve a bump I'd have no problem giving him one, but I hesitate to mark him as having a high upside solely because he's a top-5 pick.

As for Bernier, a 9.0 would rank him amongst Brodeur, Hasek, etc. I think it's too soon to tell if he has that kind of upside, but I did upgrade him from a C to a B. If he makes the Kings and performs well in more than a few games, I'll give him a bump. I try to err on the side of conservatism, rather than throwing around the elite tags.

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Old
09-18-2010, 02:12 PM
  #13
Johnny Utah
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We need help on LW....Clifford and Kitsyn? Cliffy is my type of player but are we putting all our eggs in one basket on Kitsyn as our only scorer at LW?

We have to move Parse from RW to LW, Poni has only a one year deal, Smyth is about to be 35....

Lombardi has to fill this hole soon.

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Old
09-18-2010, 02:16 PM
  #14
DeeMeck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
We need help on LW....Clifford and Kitsyn? Cliffy is my type of player but are we putting all our eggs in one basket on Kitsyn as our only scorer at LW?

We have to move Parse from RW to LW, Poni has only a one year deal, Smyth is about to be 35....

Lombardi has to fill these holes soon.
Fixed.

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Old
09-18-2010, 02:29 PM
  #15
Kurrilino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
We need help on LW....Clifford and Kitsyn? Cliffy is my type of player but are we putting all our eggs in one basket on Kitsyn as our only scorer at LW?

We have to move Parse from RW to LW, Poni has only a one year deal, Smyth is about to be 35....

Lombardi has to fill this hole soon.
*cough* *cough* Frolov..... Cammy

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Old
09-18-2010, 02:53 PM
  #16
King'sPawn
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My list is a bit different:

Bernier
Schenn
Hickey
Clifford
Voynov
Loktionov
Deslauriers
Jones
Forbort
Teubert
Czarnik
Kozun
Weal
Toffoli
Vey
Drewiske
Muzzin
Holloway
Kitsyn
King

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Old
09-18-2010, 03:29 PM
  #17
kingsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
In addition to the shoulder surgery he just underwent and the broken ankle which kept him out of most of the playoffs, he suffered an ankle injury in March of 2008 that he played through which ended up being major and required surgery in the offseason.

Gann Matsuda did a good write up on it here: http://frozenroyalty.net/2008/07/30/...-all-fired-up/

I believe he also suffered a concussion during the WHL playoffs once but I can't find a source to confirm that.

My concern is that he may have caused further damage by playing through both his shoulder and ankle injuries. It's not a good habit to establish.
So out side of this season, he had an ankle injury, which he played through anyways and maybe a concussion which you state is only your belief and not actual fact yet?

I assume the ankle injury he played through that you refer to is the one in 2008? If so, I don't see how he caused further damage since the following season he had his best WHL season and was the captain on the WJC team which won gold.

I just don't buy the injury prone talk. If he's hurt again next year, then sure, I'll reconsider.

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Old
09-18-2010, 03:56 PM
  #18
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just a word about Nicolas Deslauriers, he wont be back in Rouyn Noranda this year... he will be playing with the Gatineau Olympics

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Old
09-18-2010, 03:59 PM
  #19
Josh Deitell
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So out side of this season, he had an ankle injury, which he played through anyways and maybe a concussion which you state is only your belief and not actual fact yet?

I assume the ankle injury he played through that you refer to is the one in 2008? If so, I don't see how he caused further damage since the following season he had his best WHL season and was the captain on the WJC team which won gold.

I just don't buy the injury prone talk. If he's hurt again next year, then sure, I'll reconsider.
It's not that it was just my belief, just that I was having trouble finding a source. Did some digging, here you go:
http://www.insidesocal.com/kings/200...ey-update.html

First off, you should know that I'm not bashing Hickey as a prospect, I think he's got tremendous upside and I'd love for him to be a big part of this team as early as this season, I'm just trying to look at the situation objectively. Hickey's undergone two major surgeries, broken his ankle, and suffered from a concussion since being drafted. That's concerning. Since joining the professional ranks, he's played in 23 out of 96 possible games, most of the time while trying to play through a shoulder injury. That's not ideal in any way.

Additionally, he's now had two major injuries that he's tried to play through for an extended period of time. Rather than shutting himself down and getting healthy, he's risked his well-being for the sake of immediacy. While I understand that the ankle injury came during the WHL playoff stretch, why push it with the shoulder at the beginning of the season? It's short-term thinking that doesn't make much sense when he has the possibility of a lengthy career ahead of him.

Quote:
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just a word about Nicolas Deslauriers, he wont be back in Rouyn Noranda this year... he will be playing with the Gatineau Olympics
Thank you for the heads up on that.

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Old
09-18-2010, 09:10 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
FML. I forgot Drewiske, sorry guys.

It's OK. AIUI, Drewiske will no longer be a prospect once he plays in 6 more games.

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Old
09-18-2010, 09:12 PM
  #21
Capn Brown
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post

We have to move Parse from RW to LW.......

I was under the impression that Parse already was a left winger.



PS: Kaunisto plays on the LW, but has yet to be added to our depth chart. Also, Braun started out on LW, so could probably rotate between both positions. In camp, Jordan Nolan has been playing LW.

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Old
09-18-2010, 11:22 PM
  #22
Manbearpig17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
We need help on LW....Clifford and Kitsyn? Cliffy is my type of player but are we putting all our eggs in one basket on Kitsyn as our only scorer at LW?

We have to move Parse from RW to LW, Poni has only a one year deal, Smyth is about to be 35....

Lombardi has to fill this hole soon.


Semin-gate August 2011

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Old
09-18-2010, 11:24 PM
  #23
Manbearpig17
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Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
My list is a bit different:

Bernier
Schenn
Hickey
Clifford
Voynov
Loktionov
Deslauriers
Jones
Forbort
Teubert
Czarnik
Kozun
Weal
Toffoli
Vey
Drewiske
Muzzin
Holloway
Kitsyn
King


Seems more of a "right now" and less of an upside list to me...but then why so down on DD2? He's pretty "right now"

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Old
09-19-2010, 01:00 AM
  #24
kingsfan
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Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
It's not that it was just my belief, just that I was having trouble finding a source. Did some digging, here you go:
http://www.insidesocal.com/kings/200...ey-update.html

First off, you should know that I'm not bashing Hickey as a prospect, I think he's got tremendous upside and I'd love for him to be a big part of this team as early as this season, I'm just trying to look at the situation objectively. Hickey's undergone two major surgeries, broken his ankle, and suffered from a concussion since being drafted. That's concerning. Since joining the professional ranks, he's played in 23 out of 96 possible games, most of the time while trying to play through a shoulder injury. That's not ideal in any way.

Additionally, he's now had two major injuries that he's tried to play through for an extended period of time. Rather than shutting himself down and getting healthy, he's risked his well-being for the sake of immediacy. While I understand that the ankle injury came during the WHL playoff stretch, why push it with the shoulder at the beginning of the season? It's short-term thinking that doesn't make much sense when he has the possibility of a lengthy career ahead of him.



Thank you for the heads up on that.
Yep, not meaning my comments as an attack on your or your reasoning. I just don't buy into the injury prone talk. It's one of those things where both sides to me have valid points.

Btw, thank you very much for the effort and write ups. It's very much appreciated!

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Old
09-19-2010, 01:01 AM
  #25
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Semin-gate August 2011
Yeah, eventually we have to land someone right?

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