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Old
09-20-2010, 02:00 PM
  #51
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I'll bet everyone Carter is not tops in scoring and he does not reach 40 goals. Giroux or Richards get my pick, Carter probably 3rd but could be 4th if Briere has continued success on his line.

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Old
09-20-2010, 02:17 PM
  #52
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Giroux will get like 70 assists if hes playing with Zherdev/Carter/Richards. Or shelley can put em in the net too i guess..

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Old
09-20-2010, 02:33 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
I'd go Richards then Carter.

Briere wont be close because he will inevitably be

a) injured
b) his usual non-playoff self

Briere is the kinda guy who elevates his game for the playoffs (see 09-10 playoffs) but for the people expecting the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line to be huge this year, you will be majorly dissapointed.
I don't agree with that. Certainly some people are overshooting that lines projected production, but both Leino and Briere both have fantastic patience and offensive skills, and Hartnell can be a great net presence and physical force when he has his head screwed on straight. The line is just mixed with a good combination of skills, and they should be a successful trio this year.

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Old
09-20-2010, 04:02 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
I don't agree with that. Certainly some people are overshooting that lines projected production, but both Leino and Briere both have fantastic patience and offensive skills, and Hartnell can be a great net presence and physical force when he has his head screwed on straight. The line is just mixed with a good combination of skills, and they should be a successful trio this year.
I agree with this, do not expect too much from the line points wise, but they will create chances and each will get their share of points. Sometimes it is the sum of the parts.

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09-20-2010, 04:29 PM
  #55
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My prediction: Flyers fans won't be able to get any of Tim Pannacio's points.

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Old
09-20-2010, 04:39 PM
  #56
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My prediction: Flyers fans won't be able to get any of Tim Pannacio's points.
We have a winner. This thread can end.

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Old
09-20-2010, 04:59 PM
  #57
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Pat Maroon will lead the flyers in goals, he has soft hands.

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Old
09-20-2010, 05:54 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
I don't agree with that. Certainly some people are overshooting that lines projected production, but both Leino and Briere both have fantastic patience and offensive skills, and Hartnell can be a great net presence and physical force when he has his head screwed on straight. The line is just mixed with a good combination of skills, and they should be a successful trio this year.
I don't buy it. Leino and Briere elevated their game for the playoffs but with the grind of the regular season, the line either gets broken up in favor of better combinations (remember Carter is healthy now) or because Briere gets hurt.

Richards and Carter our our top centers. After that, I'd rather play Giroux at Center then Briere.

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Old
09-20-2010, 06:03 PM
  #59
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Should be a poll.

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Old
09-20-2010, 06:21 PM
  #60
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I don't see how anyone reasonably says anyone other than Richards or Carter.

I'm looking for Richards to be back around a ppg if he doesn't get tied down with a waste of space on one of his wings. His point total wasn't low last year because he wasn't up to par on the offensive side of the rink.

Carter, well, he's just a freak. PPG seems reasonable for him too.

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Old
09-20-2010, 09:33 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
I'd go Richards then Carter.

Briere wont be close because he will inevitably be

a) injured
b) his usual non-playoff self

Briere is the kinda guy who elevates his game for the playoffs (see 09-10 playoffs) but for the people expecting the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line to be huge this year, you will be majorly dissapointed.
I've seen you say the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line will suck this year but I think I missed your reasons. Can you give them again

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Old
09-20-2010, 10:14 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post


Simon Gagne.
I could have scored that goal, your point is?

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Old
09-20-2010, 10:17 PM
  #63
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Quote:
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I could have scored that goal, your point is?
You didnt.

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Old
09-20-2010, 10:27 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
I've seen you say the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line will suck this year but I think I missed your reasons. Can you give them again
I know you didn't ask me but I'll take a crack at his reasoning.

Briere has proven to not be nearly as effective in the regular season as he is in the playoffs, especially on the defensive side of the puck. Since he came to Philly he has been downright dominant in the playoffs and a big minus in the regular season which isnt something you want in the middle of the ice.

The big knock on Leino before he came here was his defensive play and that he took shifts off. Nobody questioned his offensive ability, it was more a question of if he came maintain it through an 82 game schedule and into the playoffs.

Hartnell is Hartnell, hes not bad in his own end but definitely nothing special. Combine that with 2 other defensive liabilities and you have a problem.


The three of them were able to play like each game was their last because for a long stretch, that was the situation. If you make a mistake in the playoffs its not just a boneheaded play its a back breaker and a possible season ending blunder. I find it hard to believe that the 3 of them, lead by a massively undersized center can keep that intensity, and urgency for 82+ games.

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Old
09-21-2010, 12:31 AM
  #65
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Carter will be traded for Vokoun by the deadline

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Old
09-21-2010, 04:23 AM
  #66
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I'd be shocked if it wasn't Carter or Richards.

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Old
09-21-2010, 09:25 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
I don't buy it. Leino and Briere elevated their game for the playoffs but with the grind of the regular season, the line either gets broken up in favor of better combinations (remember Carter is healthy now) or because Briere gets hurt.

Richards and Carter our our top centers. After that, I'd rather play Giroux at Center then Briere.
Richards and Carter had a short stint where they played together under Stevens, it did not look too bad. Given all scenarios I think each one of the centers are going to be playing center or wing at some point. Bottom line is both Briere and Giroux are much better off at center with the puck, they are both players who make others around them better with their ability to see the ice. Richards and Carter do not have that ability, Richards attempts to make those passes but he tries too hard and usually will try to make the "pretty" pass over the smart pass.

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Old
09-21-2010, 09:59 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
I've seen you say the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line will suck this year but I think I missed your reasons. Can you give them again
Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
I know you didn't ask me but I'll take a crack at his reasoning.

Briere has proven to not be nearly as effective in the regular season as he is in the playoffs, especially on the defensive side of the puck. Since he came to Philly he has been downright dominant in the playoffs and a big minus in the regular season which isnt something you want in the middle of the ice.

The big knock on Leino before he came here was his defensive play and that he took shifts off. Nobody questioned his offensive ability, it was more a question of if he came maintain it through an 82 game schedule and into the playoffs.

Hartnell is Hartnell, hes not bad in his own end but definitely nothing special. Combine that with 2 other defensive liabilities and you have a problem.


The three of them were able to play like each game was their last because for a long stretch, that was the situation. If you make a mistake in the playoffs its not just a boneheaded play its a back breaker and a possible season ending blunder. I find it hard to believe that the 3 of them, lead by a massively undersized center can keep that intensity, and urgency for 82+ games.
Thanks for stepping in there CGB. This is precisely what I was thinking.

Just because something worked in the playoffs doesn't mean it will work for a full 82 game regular season schedule.

Leino is widely known to be "lazy" at times and takes shifts off. Something he DID NOT do in this past playoffs because, well, it's the freaking playoffs. Regular season Leino is very different then what we got last playoffs. He was also fighting for a lineup spot at the end of last season, so his motivation was through the roof.

Briere is almost 33, and the numbers on him are clear at this point. His production during the regular season peaked in 07-08 and since then injuries and age have been working to bring him down from over PPG pace 3 years ago to 53 points in 75 games. That's certainly not bad or anything, but it's clear to me his production is trending downward (which is typical of players his age). His playing style is very much suited for the winger role, and he is downright awful defensively. Not a guy you want playing Center unless he is putting up 80points, for sure. Even though he had 53 points this past season, he finished a -2. In the playoffs where he had 30 points, he finished only +9. The numbers are clear with him. He is a career -30 and ever season with us has seen him finish in the negatives for +/-. Now, I'm not a fan of using +/- in all situations, but the trend here is simple. For everything Briere gives you, in 5v5 he is a liability. Also, a lot of his production comes on the PP. If you want a Hartnell-Briere-Leino PP line, then go for it, maybe they can succeed in that role.

It is clear to me Briere is not capable of carrying a line defensively.

Now, Hartnell is Hartnell. He is maddeningly awful at passing at times, and other times he is a beast in front of the net. Either way, he is usually one of the last guys on the back check, meaning he has his own defensive shortcomings.

All of this leads me to believe that the Leino-Briere-Hartnell line was a playoff success because Briere is well known to elevate this game for the playoffs and Leino also brought extra intensity. An intensity I can not see them replicating over the grind of the regular season.

Personally, I expect Briere to either get injured this season or finish with roughly 50 points this season. I can't see Briere going over 60 though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Richards and Carter had a short stint where they played together under Stevens, it did not look too bad. Given all scenarios I think each one of the centers are going to be playing center or wing at some point. Bottom line is both Briere and Giroux are much better off at center with the puck, they are both players who make others around them better with their ability to see the ice. Richards and Carter do not have that ability, Richards attempts to make those passes but he tries too hard and usually will try to make the "pretty" pass over the smart pass.
Carter is way better off at Center with the puck. In fact, Jeff doesnt even need quality linemates. He had a career year with Hartnell and freaking LUPUL!

Give Carter Hartnell and JVR or something and let Carter dominate the puck with Hartnell playing in front.

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Old
09-21-2010, 10:08 AM
  #69
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I want to see Giroux do it, but Carter's in a contract year that may propel him to score big.

I may be dreaming big, but I see 50 goals from Carter this year.

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Old
09-21-2010, 10:19 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Viller View Post
I could have scored that goal, your point is?
Gagne will outscore both Walker and Zherdev combined.

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Old
09-21-2010, 10:39 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post



Carter is way better off at Center with the puck. In fact, Jeff doesnt even need quality linemates. He had a career year with Hartnell and freaking LUPUL!

Give Carter Hartnell and JVR or something and let Carter dominate the puck with Hartnell playing in front.
Carter needs the puck on his stick to score, that is a no-brainer. Problem is does Carter make the players on his line better with the puck at center? Can he create offense by keeping defenses honest and respecting the pass? Does his ability to create space with the pass create seams in the defense to move the puck and score off of one-timers?

Answer is no. Carter is unique in that he basically has all the talent to be a scorer but his scoring is created off of his rush with the puck, not necessarily using his linemates. Lupul and Hartnell succeeded with Carter by just hanging around the net. Carter and JvR is a disaster waiting to happen. JvR and Carter are both perimeter players who rely on a wrist shot, give Carter Carcillo or Guerin and Zherdev and you would have better luck.

The downfall of this is I predict that Carter will have a down year, defenses know how to play him and unless he can develop a more well rounded style of game the defense will lay off him, block the center, force him wide, give him the bad angle shot and he will shoot 9 out of 10 times.....puck goes around the boards creating an odd-man rush the opposite way, creating poor line changes and loss of offensive zone time.

Carter will most likely be in the 30 goals, 29 assists, 59pts.
Richards........33 goals, 40 assists, 73pts
Giroux..........30 goals, 40 assists, 70pts
Briere.......26 goals, 35 assists, 61pts
Hartnell......19 goals, 23 assists, 42pts
Leino......17 goals, 20 assists, 37pts
JvR......20 goals, 22assists, 42pts
Guerin.....16 goals, 20 assists, 36pts
Zherdev.....23 goals, 20 assist, 43pts

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Old
09-21-2010, 11:01 AM
  #72
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Not this garbage about Carter, not again.

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Old
09-21-2010, 11:20 AM
  #73
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Not this garbage about Carter, not again.
Just calling it as I see it, care to match your predictions and see who is closer overall in the top 9? How about an over under?

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Old
09-21-2010, 11:25 AM
  #74
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Brierre

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Old
09-21-2010, 11:26 AM
  #75
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Shelley, with Matt Walker at a close second.

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