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Rostislav Olesz: Playing With an Edge?

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Old
09-21-2010, 04:21 PM
  #76
Hip to be Square
 
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
some fans need a whipping boy. if you're one of them, i guess you'd say yeah. certainly, there are players who deserve criticism, but a young kid who's just trying to make it, working hard... nah. he'll be cut loose if it doesn't come together. we (now you) have bashed him enough. you don't need to continue to demonize the kid. enough already.
I believe this is the first year that the percentage of pessimistic olesz fans far outweighs the percentage of optimistic olesz fans.

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09-21-2010, 04:26 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Can you please remember one thing....HE'S 24!!! He's 25 next month. Weiss scored 13 goals at this point after his nice 20 goal season. Jokinen had scored no more than 11 goals by this age. it was after that he had his break out year. You say hes a choke artist, a bust etc., at 24? I have sox older then that.
Secondly show me anything on the record that he has a poor work ethic. You wont find it. Because he doesnt. He works his butt off. that it hasnt translated yet is not causative to whether the effort was there. If he was hortonesque lazy, we would all know.
Lastly, Holy is 100% right. JM gambled trying to lock in young talent in this market. Rusty didnt sit out games demanding a salary. Its ridiculous to blame him for the salary. Almost as ridiculous as calling a 24 year old a bust.
Alexander daigle was a bust before he was 24.

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09-21-2010, 04:34 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Hip to be Square View Post
I compiled a mini list of the roster of former panther players/prospects whose failed to be effective at the nhl level despite numerous attempts to "break out".

Shvidki
Bednar
Mezei
Kolnik
Sprukts
Kreps

and soon to be added to this list .. Olesz
Classic stuff man. Lets try and find some euro players from our past, trash them so we can add Olesz to the list. What about all the North americans we can add in as well

Bednar wasnt a prospect of ours, we traded for him. And he played one season for us, so whats the point?

Mezei was traded for as well, and he was almost 26 when he played his for us. He was a good defensive Dman that was hampered by injuries. Again, whats the point?

Yea, you can make a case for Shvidki, maybe even Kreps, but you are really reaching on the rest. Just give it a rest. We all know you hate Olesz, but you trashing him is worse than his actual game. He is a serviceable 3rd line player for more teams than not in this league. But go ahead, bring up his salary, again. We ALL know he is overpaid lol.


Last edited by Majik1987: 09-21-2010 at 04:45 PM. Reason: qe and response
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09-21-2010, 05:15 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Classic stuff man. Lets try and find some euro players from our past, trash them so we can add Olesz to the list. What about all the North americans we can add in as well

Bednar wasnt a prospect of ours, we traded for him. And he played one season for us, so whats the point?

Mezei was traded for as well, and he was almost 26 when he played his for us. He was a good defensive Dman that was hampered by injuries. Again, whats the point?

Yea, you can make a case for Shvidki, maybe even Kreps, but you are really reaching on the rest. Just give it a rest. We all know you hate Olesz, but you trashing him is worse than his actual game. He is a serviceable 3rd line player for more teams than not in this league. But go ahead, bring up his salary, again. We ALL know he is overpaid lol.
Just off the top of my head, a player named Stewart comes to mind.........

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09-22-2010, 12:51 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
some fans need a whipping boy. if you're one of them, i guess you'd say yeah. certainly, there are players who deserve criticism, but a young kid who's just trying to make it, working hard... nah. he'll be cut loose if it doesn't come together. we (now you) have bashed him enough. you don't need to continue to demonize the kid. enough already.
"Whipping boys" are normally "whipping boys," for a reason.

This is a forum to discuss the Florida Panthers organization, and how all of us feel about it. Quite frankly, I feel Rostislav Olesz isn't any good, and he's overpaid. I, and many others will continue to say so until he's no longer a part of the organization because that's what certain fans do.

I'm not demonizing anyone. Never said he was a horrible person; just stating the fact that he's been a horrible player here, all things considered. Perhaps you should stop constantly defending him. He's a big boy who could care less about what we say; as a matter of fact, I bet he doesn't even read what we say.

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09-22-2010, 01:01 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
"Whipping boys" are normally "whipping boys," for a reason.
Ahh, so Vokoun bashers are right. Thanks for the tip.

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09-22-2010, 01:06 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by RoadDoggFL View Post
Ahh, so Vokoun bashers are right. Thanks for the tip.
No, that's just stupidity.

Goaltenders normally become whipping boys for fanbases because their mistakes are more obvious, since they're the last line of defense. The same way people make silly comments on Vokoun, I've seen some Rangers fans do the same with Lundquivst, for example.

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09-22-2010, 09:48 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
"Whipping boys" are normally "whipping boys," for a reason.

This is a forum to discuss the Florida Panthers organization, and how all of us feel about it. Quite frankly, I feel Rostislav Olesz isn't any good, and he's overpaid. I, and many others will continue to say so until he's no longer a part of the organization because that's what certain fans do.

I'm not demonizing anyone. Never said he was a horrible person; just stating the fact that he's been a horrible player here, all things considered. Perhaps you should stop constantly defending him. He's a big boy who could care less about what we say; as a matter of fact, I bet he doesn't even read what we say.
Your not stating hes a horrible player...your stating hes a horrible player FOR THE MONEY. Thats the fallacy in your argument. You cant call a 24 yo whose scores about 15 goals per season prior to seeing his 25th birthday a horrible player. You would either sound silly or irrational.

What he is is an OK young player who was invested in by a prior GM to turn int a star and that investment is angering many fans. Direct your angst at JM.

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09-22-2010, 10:48 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Your not stating hes a horrible player...your stating hes a horrible player FOR THE MONEY. Thats the fallacy in your argument. You cant call a 24 yo whose scores about 15 goals per season prior to seeing his 25th birthday a horrible player. You would either sound silly or irrational.

What he is is an OK young player who was invested in by a prior GM to turn int a star and that investment is angering many fans. Direct your angst at JM.
No, he's pretty bad.

The thing is, he has that huge contract so the Panthers have been patient with him, especially since the team has been horrible production-wise and depth-wise for years.

Last year, Olesz was getting 15+ minutes per game for a stretch, and went over 20 games without registering a single point. Not a goal...a point. Considering one can luck into the occasional secondary assist, that's just pathetic.

I don't think he's a good player because he's not a good player.

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09-22-2010, 11:08 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Your not stating hes a horrible player...your stating hes a horrible player FOR THE MONEY. Thats the fallacy in your argument. You cant call a 24 yo whose scores about 15 goals per season prior to seeing his 25th birthday a horrible player. You would either sound silly or irrational.

What he is is an OK young player who was invested in by a prior GM to turn int a star and that investment is angering many fans. Direct your angst at JM.
The fallacy in this argument is trying to separate the player from his salary. In the new NHL, a player's salary is a part of how valuable a player is. There are examples all over the place. Look at Campbell in Chicago. He's a very good player, but his value is lower due to the contract he has.

No one blames Olesz for taking the contract Martin offered. Most admit that Olesz is a capable bottom 6 NHL player. HOWEVER, for his contract, that simply is not enough production. We can debate his effort or anything else, but the bottom line is his stats do not come anywhere close to justifying what he's being paid. And for a team on a budget, we need to carefully allocate what dollars we have, not waste them.

Unless you want this team to be on the hook for paying a 3rd liner 3.1M, 3.4M, 4M, 4.25M for the next 4 seasons, then Olesz needs to be bought out. Unless Olesz finally "matures" like we've been waiting for him to do for several years, then I don't see why he should remain part of this team.

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09-22-2010, 11:21 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
The fallacy in this argument is trying to separate the player from his salary. In the new NHL, a player's salary is a part of how valuable a player is. There are examples all over the place. Look at Campbell in Chicago. He's a very good player, but his value is lower due to the contract he has.

No one blames Olesz for taking the contract Martin offered. Most admit that Olesz is a capable bottom 6 NHL player. HOWEVER, for his contract, that simply is not enough production. We can debate his effort or anything else, but the bottom line is his stats do not come anywhere close to justifying what he's being paid. And for a team on a budget, we need to carefully allocate what dollars we have, not waste them.

Unless you want this team to be on the hook for paying a 3rd liner 3.1M, 3.4M, 4M, 4.25M for the next 4 seasons, then Olesz needs to be bought out. Unless Olesz finally "matures" like we've been waiting for him to do for several years, then I don't see why he should remain part of this team.
Your argument is valid in why we should trade him etc. uncontroverted. My objection is characterizing him as a "horrible player" becasue of value. He is what he is irrelevant to his salary. Whether he FITS is your argument, which i concur.

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09-22-2010, 11:22 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Your argument is valid in why we should trade him etc. uncontroverted. My objection is characterizing him as a "horrible player" becasue of value. He is what he is irrelevant to his salary. Whether he FITS is your argument, which i concur.
This is essentially what i've been arguing, but AG is simply more eloquent than i am.

"His value is low because of his contract." I agree.

He is a terrible player because of his contract." Disagree.

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09-22-2010, 11:30 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Your argument is valid in why we should trade him etc. uncontroverted. My objection is characterizing him as a "horrible player" becasue of value. He is what he is irrelevant to his salary. Whether he FITS is your argument, which i concur.
I wish we could trade him, but it seems that we can't. Even Sexton talked about trading him and I believe if we could have found a deal with either Sexton or Tallon, Olesz would be gone. The problem is we'd probably have to take back an even worse contract to unload him. Our only legitimate option barring him breaking out this year seems to be a buyout and the price for buying him out will increase after next offseason.

For him as a player, I agree, he's not horrible. He's a 3rd liner who still has the potential to break out and become a top 6 player. For whatever reason (poor development, injuries, etc.) he hasn't developed past a 3rd line role. Were he making less, I'd want us to keep him, but given his escalating salary and the length of the contract, I think his contract outweighs the potential benefit of keeping him.

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09-22-2010, 11:44 AM
  #89
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2005-06: 59 GP, 14:52 ATOI, 21 points, 8 goals, -4
2006-07: 75 GP, 15:30 ATOI, 30 points, 11 goals, +2
2007-08: 56 GP, 17:04 ATOI, 26 points, 14 goals, +3
2008-09: 37 GP, 13:12 ATOI, 9 points, 4 goals, -5
2009-10: 78 GP, 15:24 ATOI, 29 points, 14 goals, -4

Per Season Totals
61 games
23 points
10.2 goals

This, while on average, averaging a little over 15 minutes per game per season, and not being an extraordinary/difference making defensive player.

The #'s of a 4th liner/borderline belonging out of the NHL player.

But yeah, it's just his salary worth complaining about.

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09-22-2010, 12:15 PM
  #90
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pointless to continue with this poster

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09-22-2010, 12:39 PM
  #91
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pointless to continue with this poster
Yeah. Facts are pointless.

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09-22-2010, 12:47 PM
  #92
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I'll believe it when I see it. The coach is right. It is "show-me time"

he's been around for so long...it is time.

I had him ranked high for fantasy team and I couldn't believe it when every day when I check the box score he was shut out and basically was a pedestrian. No shots, no hits no points...

Time is running out for Rusty

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09-22-2010, 12:47 PM
  #93
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Yeah. Facts are pointless.
facts exist on both sides of the argument, as mentioned earlier in the thread. give it a freakin' rest already.

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09-22-2010, 12:54 PM
  #94
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facts exist on both sides of the argument, as mentioned earlier in the thread. give it a freakin' rest already.
The only facts are the #'s.
The rest is opinion, really.

I supported my opinion with some facts.

You supported your opinion simply by stating your opinion that Rusty seems like a nice, hard-working kid. Considering you're not at every Panthers practice, and considering the coaching staff is frustrated with him (because he doesn't produce, as evidenced by the statistics ), I'll take my side of the argument. I guess I'll use the "I'm always right" approach this time around, as you do on every thread, pretending to know it all.

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09-22-2010, 03:06 PM
  #95
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The only facts are the #'s.
The rest is opinion, really.

I supported my opinion with some facts.
While you attempted to support your opinion with facts/numbers, the jump from those facts to your conclusion/opinion that Rusty is a "4th liner/borderline belonging out of the NHL" is a tad bit dubious.

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09-22-2010, 07:09 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
2005-06: 59 GP, 14:52 ATOI, 21 points, 8 goals, -4
2006-07: 75 GP, 15:30 ATOI, 30 points, 11 goals, +2
2007-08: 56 GP, 17:04 ATOI, 26 points, 14 goals, +3
2008-09: 37 GP, 13:12 ATOI, 9 points, 4 goals, -5
2009-10: 78 GP, 15:24 ATOI, 29 points, 14 goals, -4

Per Season Totals
61 games
23 points
10.2 goals

This, while on average, averaging a little over 15 minutes per game per season, and not being an extraordinary/difference making defensive player.

The #'s of a 4th liner/borderline belonging out of the NHL player.

But yeah, it's just his salary worth complaining about.
No problem here, just list us 4th liners on the panthers over the last years with 10-15 goals; Im sure there are plenty o give u a basis for your opinion.

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09-22-2010, 08:55 PM
  #97
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No problem here, just list us 4th liners on the panthers over the last years with 10-15 goals; Im sure there are plenty o give u a basis for your opinion.
He's averaged 10-15 goals playing 3rd line minutes.
4th liners don't get to play as many minutes as 3rd liners, so they have less of a chance to produce points-wise, etc.

If you gave Olesz consistent 4th line minutes, his #'s would be even worse.

Bottom line is, there's really no reason to defend his play, or say "you only hate him because of his salary" or whatever. He's a very replaceable player, with or without his bad contract.

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09-22-2010, 10:30 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
He's averaged 10-15 goals playing 3rd line minutes.
4th liners don't get to play as many minutes as 3rd liners, so they have less of a chance to produce points-wise, etc.

If you gave Olesz consistent 4th line minutes, his #'s would be even worse.

Bottom line is, there's really no reason to defend his play, or say "you only hate him because of his salary" or whatever. He's a very replaceable player, with or without his bad contract.
Link.

Olesz was out-produced (as in scoring rate, a pretty minutes-neutral stat) by nine forwards and one defenseman over the course of last season.


Last edited by Majik1987: 09-22-2010 at 11:17 PM. Reason: flaming
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09-22-2010, 10:40 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by RoadDoggFL View Post
Link.

Olesz was out-produced (as in scoring rate, a pretty minutes-neutral stat) by nine forwards and one defenseman over the course of last season.
.
If he was outproduced by nine forwards, that means he was a 4th line player in terms of production for the 3rd worst team in the NHL last year.

I'd really like to thank you for proving my point for me.


Last edited by Majik1987: 09-22-2010 at 11:17 PM. Reason: qe and response
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09-22-2010, 10:56 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
If he was outproduced by nine forwards, that means he was a 4th line player in terms of production for the 3rd worst team in the NHL last year.

I'd really like to thank you for proving my point for me.
It actually means he was outproduced by players who played small portions of the season. Regardless, he's an NHLer. Look at other years if you want.


Last edited by Majik1987: 09-22-2010 at 11:17 PM. Reason: qe
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