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The Sky Is Officially Falling

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Old
09-22-2010, 04:25 PM
  #551
Hockey Talker29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Richie's point is perhaps overstated, but there is some validity to the opinion that Kaberle's impact on the outcome of a game has diminished while his offensive numbers have continued to be impressive. Stats don't tell the whole story, and Kaberle is by no means useless, but his effectiveness as a weapon has eroded quite a bit over the past couple of years, given what's around him up front and also in the way his game is so damn predictable.
I disagree that his effectiveness has eroded. His point totals are about the same, with a slight decline due to the fact that there is very little goal scoring talent around him, and he is a "pass-first" (and second, and probably third, lol) player.

With that being said, he's equally effective now when he's on the ice as he has always been. The main difference is the team around him is much worse. Last year's PP was basically incapable of scoring unless he was on the ice (except for Kessel, he had at least double the PP points of anyone else on the team).

His +/- took a significant hit last year, but most of that occurred once the season was basically lost. He was very ineffective down the stretch, but I don't read too much into that, because he had basically nothing to play for. Everyone and their mother expected him to be gone by now, and he played very much like a player who expected to leave.

But he's still here.

I expect him to play his A-game, which is what he did last year until Wilson decided to slash his minutes, despite him being the 2nd highest scoring d-man in the league at the time. What worries me most is that Wilson doesn't seem to know what to do with him, or anyone else on this team. I think he's our biggest weakness, and I don't expect much improvement until he's gone.

As for those that say he's predictable...

He gets 50 points a year. He can't produce a goal every time he gets the puck. No one can. I agree that his lack of shooting is sometimes frustrating, but how can you really criticize a guy who produces like he does? How many points do you expect him to get with this supporting cast?

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Old
09-22-2010, 05:24 PM
  #552
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Oops double post. My bad.

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Old
09-22-2010, 05:29 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Collegedude84 View Post
I know it's only one preseason game, but for the love of god Wilson needs to smarten up BIG time. Lets look at his mistakes so far this preseason

1. Not using camp to work on special teams: Our special teams were both dead last in the 09/10 season, and if we expect to make the playoffs, both areas need to be upgraded majorly. This should have been one of the first things he nailed home in camp.

2. The powerplay last night: He kept putting Kaberle/Phaneuf out together on the point, major mistake on his part. Teams know that Kaberle is a passer, and Phaneuf is a shooter, so they're going to pressure Kabs to make a bad bass, and Phaneuf to take an early shot. Its too predictable. If Wilson were smart (which he's not), he'd put 2 shooters out on the point on the PP (could have used a phaneuf/gunnarsson combo last night for example)

3. Lebda/Kaberle pairing last night: He put 2 offensive defencmen together who are softer then diaherra in their own end and have little to not concept of how to play defence. This resulted in a lot of turnovers last night. Again if wilson were smart he'd put kaberle out with an defensive defencmen who can cover up his mistakes.

4. Calling out vets in the preseason, yet he fails to take responsibility for his own actions.
I still think you should change your name to elementarydude84 or something.

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Old
09-22-2010, 05:32 PM
  #554
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I just watched about half of last night's game today, having attended yesterday. I think that our first line for that game wasn't actually too bad, at least in the first half, especially Armstrong, who made a lot of things happen. Not too much chemistry, and no one could really produce consistent offense, but I think Kadri is still very much in the competition for starting the regular season. We also really need more accuracy from our players when they're shooting from the point. That was a major reason we failed to capitalize on our powerplays.

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Old
09-22-2010, 05:40 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Is this your first season watching pre-season hockey? It's usually the fringe players that shine, the ones trying to make an impression on the coaching staff. Remember Nathan Perrot leading the Leafs in scoring and fights a few pre-seasons ago? Remember Stalberg leading the league in pre-season goals last year? Colaiacovo dominating? Latandresse being the hero in Habs land?
I don't get your logic here. Sure, often a player or team who does good in preseason doesn't always do good in the regular season, but that doesn't mean someone who does bad in the preseason won't continue to be bad in the regular season. Toskala looked awful in most of the preseason, and it carried over. If Phaneuf is trying to bring a winning culture to the Leafs, it starts by showing the team how to win, taking ownership.

Anyways, I know it's only been one game, but I think close attention must be payed to the defence this preseason, because we need to know who can win us hockey games.

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Old
09-22-2010, 05:49 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by forumryder722 View Post
lol this is the funniest thing i have ever pictured i wish i woulda seen this
looking back it was ****ing hilarious. in fact, i started laughing just after it happened but tried to hide it so i wouldn't seem like a ******.

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Old
09-22-2010, 05:50 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by LeaffanDM View Post
what ticks me off is this... its a game for the fans.. and wilson cant ice a better lineup?

and dont be surprised if Hanson gets suspended. you cant smash a guys face in the ice.
This!

I love a good fight and have no problem when someone from my team loses but come on don't be a complete jackass!

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Old
09-22-2010, 05:54 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by Courage View Post
So let's get this straight, you accuse others of "drinking koolaid" (ad hominem) and of "skewing facts" -- strong charges -- but when confronted about it, your inner Ghandi conveniently appears.
Not "others" Courage. Just your buddy with the Kaberle avatar

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Old
09-22-2010, 05:55 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by Hockey Talker29 View Post
I disagree that his effectiveness has eroded. His point totals are about the same, with a slight decline due to the fact that there is very little goal scoring talent around him, and he is a "pass-first" (and second, and probably third, lol) player.

With that being said, he's equally effective now when he's on the ice as he has always been. The main difference is the team around him is much worse. Last year's PP was basically incapable of scoring unless he was on the ice (except for Kessel, he had at least double the PP points of anyone else on the team).

His +/- took a significant hit last year, but most of that occurred once the season was basically lost. He was very ineffective down the stretch, but I don't read too much into that, because he had basically nothing to play for. Everyone and their mother expected him to be gone by now, and he played very much like a player who expected to leave.

But he's still here.

I expect him to play his A-game, which is what he did last year until Wilson decided to slash his minutes, despite him being the 2nd highest scoring d-man in the league at the time. What worries me most is that Wilson doesn't seem to know what to do with him, or anyone else on this team. I think he's our biggest weakness, and I don't expect much improvement until he's gone.

As for those that say he's predictable...

He gets 50 points a year. He can't produce a goal every time he gets the puck. No one can. I agree that his lack of shooting is sometimes frustrating, but how can you really criticize a guy who produces like he does? How many points do you expect him to get with this supporting cast?
Of course you would disagree...

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Old
09-22-2010, 05:57 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by Hockeyhalloffame View Post
I still think you should change your name to elementarydude84 or something.
So full of win

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Old
09-22-2010, 06:00 PM
  #561
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Not that anyone asked me, but as one of the poor 'schlubs' at the game, here was my take:

Colby Armstrong was solid. The guy was hitting everything, was one of the few out the creating opportunities.

Kris Versteeg looked very rusty. Had some nice dangles, but always seemed to find a way to lose the puck. Looked VERY small out there.

Nazem Kadri looked like he needs more time. Not saying just yet that he needs AHL time, but it may be best for him. And Kadri and Versteeg on the same line? Please, never again.

Christian Hanson looked absolutely solid. Next to Colby, easily the best player in the blue and white. Good chances, finished his checks, very promising. I know it's only preseason, but he looked like he belonged. Let's hope

Dion, the DION, looked very average. Sound play most of the night, but nothing earth moving.. I honestly think he and Luke play off each other, and think Kabs needs to stay with Komisarek. Two very solid pairings.

Kaberle looked good, but nothing special. I don't think it was lack of effort as much as a lack of talent to hand off to He was still making the passes, getting his stick in the lane, all of the good things.

Gunner was ok, but once again, nothing ground breaking.

As for the goalies, Monster looked pretty solid most of the night, and Rynnas looked fairly weak, kinda what I expected I guess.

Only thing that really got to me was the whole nearly 4 total minutes of 5-3, and not only no goals, but they did not even register a shot until like 30 seconds left in the second one. Are we going to be THAT bad offensively? Seriously?


Last edited by The Apologist: 09-22-2010 at 06:06 PM.
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Old
09-22-2010, 06:04 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Really? Maybe it was just my section but the crowd seemed more into it today. At the very least it was an improvement over the past games I've gone to. One of the best moments of the night was when Clark handed someone a prize that they won in a contest and got a standing ovation for it.
Must be just the TV, cause the ACC was absoluetly rocking.

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Old
09-22-2010, 07:43 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by LeafsandSharksfan View Post
I don't get your logic here. Sure, often a player or team who does good in preseason doesn't always do good in the regular season, but that doesn't mean someone who does bad in the preseason won't continue to be bad in the regular season. Toskala looked awful in most of the preseason, and it carried over. If Phaneuf is trying to bring a winning culture to the Leafs, it starts by showing the team how to win, taking ownership.

Anyways, I know it's only been one game, but I think close attention must be payed to the defence this preseason, because we need to know who can win us hockey games.
It's really very simple. The first pre-season game is time to be concerned. If they still haven't played well by early October then there's a small window for concern, but not now.

I don't remember Toskala having a bad pre-season last year, I remember him having a bad game. Belfour's a good counter example, he was booed in his first few pre-season games as a Leaf and went on to have a great year. Toskala's first season was the same, booed in the pre-season cheered in the regular season. So the logic is this: It's early, far too early to be concerned, regardless of who was in the line-up.

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Old
09-22-2010, 08:52 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
No, Phaneuf doesn't need to play hard all of the time. The guys who need to play hard all of the time know who they are.
Isn't he the captain???

Heck of an inspiration for the kids.

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Old
09-22-2010, 09:04 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by Richie79 View Post
I'm with you man. Kaberle hasen't had a season that actually "looked good on ice" since 2004, the last time we were in the playoffs. He's been mediocre ever since. I honestly believe that Burkie is going to work on something all year long and finally deal him at the deadline ala jason blake/vessa toskala... Especially if he keeps up this lackluster performance.

Kaberle just seems overwhelmingly trepidness on the ice. I'm not going to lie either and try to be optomistic about Kabs. As Leaf fans we have a right to address concerns we have...and Kabs has been a concern since 2005 (lockout) going forward.

This isin't anything new FYI.
Isn't there a little detail that you're forgetting about?

Start with a N, finishes with a C, with a T in the middle.

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Old
09-22-2010, 09:11 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Amazing that you think that being an upper echelon player in the NHL for years can be done by someone phoning it in and not caring. Those guys end up in Europe, just to let you know.
The Armageddon must be around the corner, because for once I (almost) aggree with you.

I would rather say that he is an upper-echelon offensive d-man, but the rest is hitting the nail on the head.

Good post.

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Old
09-22-2010, 09:13 PM
  #567
beauchamp
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Originally Posted by Max Napster View Post
What a dumb a$$ thread title...

Its "official" is it? The sky is "officially" falling is it? Dear lord.

Guess I wont watch any more games this year...like the 82 we have coming...or more.
Do you take everything at face-value?

There has been something known as irony around for quite a while.

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Old
09-22-2010, 09:21 PM
  #568
beauchamp
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Originally Posted by Richie79 View Post
It's obvious you love Kabs and that's cool. However - he's not a part of the vision, nor a part of the future Stanley Cup winning Maple Leafs. No need to argue or overrate him.
Do you seriously believe he'd still be here if he didn't have a NMC?
Do you seriously believe we can't replace him?
Should I even bother trying?
Have you forgotten about the #1 blockbuster of the summer, "The Kaberle Saga", starring Brian Burke?

PS: And sorry for posting so many times in a row. I was playing bridge this afternoon and thus could not visit this thread.

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Old
09-22-2010, 09:29 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
Have you forgotten about the #1 blockbuster of the summer, "The Kaberle Saga", starring Brian Burke?

PS: And sorry for posting so many times in a row. I was playing bridge this afternoon and thus could not visit this thread.

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Old
09-22-2010, 09:46 PM
  #570
beauchamp
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Originally Posted by Richie79 View Post
You didn't understand my post. Enjoyed your feedback tho


From the content of his answer, any reasonable persn would conclude that he understood your post just fine.

Nice attempt at obfuscation on your part.

Or, to borrow an expression from French, nice attempt to drown a fish in water...

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Old
09-22-2010, 09:50 PM
  #571
beauchamp
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Originally Posted by Richie79 View Post
(...) no matter how hard to you try to convay your opinion of my post - it's off. That said, I do enjoy wide range of vocab. It's quite refreshing
If you really mean that, you might be interested to know that's it's convey and not convay.

If not, forget about it.

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Old
09-22-2010, 09:51 PM
  #572
Volcanologist
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take a hike beauchamp. we won, you got nothin' tonight.

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Old
09-22-2010, 09:58 PM
  #573
beauchamp
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Originally Posted by Richie79 View Post
Now now..the last comment you made sounds like you are a little "touchy" right now..
and like you need to relax just a bit. No need for the back and fourth banter. You've re-iderated your inital point 3 different ways. I just don't see why you feel so compelled to contiously re-iderate your point. It's ok... you think what you think. It's totally cool. I enjoy the vocab.
Are you doing this on purpose, or is it that you simply don't know how to spell?

If the former, well played...

If the latter, a very sad microcosm of today's educational system.

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Old
09-22-2010, 10:03 PM
  #574
beauchamp
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
take a hike beauchamp. we won, you got nothin' tonight.
Congratulations on your promotion to Mod...

PS: And those of us born in July should stand for each other.

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Old
09-22-2010, 10:12 PM
  #575
beauchamp
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Originally Posted by Garbs View Post
Thanks for the tip.

Seriously.

I often use the "Multi" function before posting a single answer to different posts on the same subject.

How dumb of me that it could also be used in the way you're hinting at.

So, again, thanks.

Let's just hope that my retired 61-year-old brain won't forget about it.

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