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21.9.2010 | Preseason | Panthers @ Hurricanes

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09-22-2010, 02:27 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
If a guy is drafted 3rd overall, logic should tell you that he has some sort of offensive abilities.

No one drafts a Mike Weaver/Bryan Allen type with the 3rd pick of the draft.
Bryan Allen was drafted 4th overall in 1998. Whoops.

Might wanna check on those "facts" of yours next time.

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09-22-2010, 02:58 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by CanadianPantherFan View Post
When you compare him to a big guy on the same level as him at his age (ie. Luongo) I think he beats Luongo in this catergory. I don't think he is AS athletic as Roberto, but his rebound control is leaps and bounds better. He pushes a lot of shots to the corner/side of the net. It might take him awhile to get used to the speed of the game and rink dimensions ,but his sheer size when down in the butterfly should cover those few mistakes he does make early on his career.
Yeah agreed. Good, I'm not the only one.

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09-22-2010, 03:02 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Clint View Post
Bryan Allen was drafted 4th overall in 1998. Whoops.

Might wanna check on those "facts" of yours next time.
At the time of the draft, Allen was considered a shutdown guy who was much more mobile than he is now (in other words, his offensive abilities weren't so limited).

His offensive game is no longer the same now that he's had various knee problems.

Perhaps it's ironic that I mentioned Allen, considering he was actually drafted 4th, but my point was that no D man is going to be drafted so high based on the fact that he's just a shutdown guy. Bryan Allen is no exception. The D man drafted that high also usually has some sort of offensive game/potential.

Gudbranson is better known for his shutdown abilities, but it shouldn't come as a surprise that he has an offensive game, too.

When you're drafted in such a spot, the potential = 2 way D man. Whether it pans out or not is a different story. The offensive game didn't pan out for Allen in large part because of surgeries, and Olesz...well, he just didn't pan out because he's a bust. Those cases happen occasionally, as well.

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09-22-2010, 03:38 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
At the time of the draft, Allen was considered a shutdown guy who was much more mobile than he is now (in other words, his offensive abilities weren't so limited).

His offensive game is no longer the same now that he's had various knee problems.
He was never projected to have much of an offensive game, even before the knee injuries.

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Perhaps it's ironic that I mentioned Allen, considering he was actually drafted 4th, but my point was that no D man is going to be drafted so high based on the fact that he's just a shutdown guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Phillips

First overall pick in 1996.

Quote:
Gudbranson is better known for his shutdown abilities, but it shouldn't come as a surprise that he has an offensive game, too.
I've been a Panther fan long enough that I know not to get too hyped about anything. In my mind, Gudbranson will develop into a reliable and hard-nosed stay-at-home defenseman. If he somehow develops the ability to put points on the board, I'll consider that a welcome surprise.

Quote:
When you're drafted in such a spot, the potential = 2 way D man.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=31220

First defenseman taken in 1999.

Quote:
Whether it pans out or not is a different story. The offensive game didn't pan out for Allen in large part because of surgeries, and Olesz...well, he just didn't pan out because he's a bust. Those cases happen occasionally, as well.
No. Bryan Allen was never projected to have much of an offensive game. Neither was Mezei. Neither was Phillips. You're making an assumption that just because a defenseman is drafted highly there's an expectation of high offensive numbers.

Bryan Allen had almost identical numbers to Gudbranson in his years in the OHL. About half a point per game. Allen was never projected to be an offensive force. Minus the knee problems, the two players are especially comparable.

Listen, I like to get excited about our prospects just like any other fan. But at this point the hype for Gudbranson's offensive upside is getting a little ahead of itself. I actually see him developing into a defenseman in a similar mold to and Allen/Phillips. And there's nothing wrong with that. Hard-nosed defensive defencemen who make zero mistakes for 25 minutes a night are highly valuable.

Just because Gudbranson has made some smart passes out of the zone and scored two points in a pre-season game doesn't mean we should be expecting the second coming of Chris Pronger. If he becomes a 30 point defenseman in his career I'm going to call him a homerun pick.

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09-22-2010, 03:44 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
At the time of the draft, Allen was considered a shutdown guy who was much more mobile than he is now (in other words, his offensive abilities weren't so limited).

His offensive game is no longer the same now that he's had various knee problems.

Perhaps it's ironic that I mentioned Allen, considering he was actually drafted 4th, but my point was that no D man is going to be drafted so high based on the fact that he's just a shutdown guy. Bryan Allen is no exception. The D man drafted that high also usually has some sort of offensive game/potential.

Gudbranson is better known for his shutdown abilities, but it shouldn't come as a surprise that he has an offensive game, too.

When you're drafted in such a spot, the potential = 2 way D man. Whether it pans out or not is a different story. The offensive game didn't pan out for Allen in large part because of surgeries, and Olesz...well, he just didn't pan out because he's a bust. Those cases happen occasionally, as well.

Chris Phillips was taken 1st overall in 1995.

Brad Stuart was taken 3rd overall in 1998

Rostislav Klesla was taken 4th overall in 2000.

Luke Schenn taken 5th overall in 2008


ALOT more in the 5-10th range i wont bother listing.


Last edited by Acadmus: 09-22-2010 at 08:48 PM.
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Old
09-22-2010, 06:36 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Southern Hockey View Post
Chris Phillips was taken 1st overall in 1995.

Brad Stuart was taken 3rd overall in 1998

Rostislav Klesla was taken 4th overall in 2000.

Luke Schenn taken 5th overall in 2008


ALOT more in the 5-10th range i wont bother listing.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=19311

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=50111

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=89981

Pretty much all of these guys had some sort of offensive game/potential before reaching the NHL level.

When a team drafts a D man in the top 5, the organization is hoping that the guy can be a 2-way D man.

The Panthers drafted Gudbranson for his shutdown abilities much like the guys you mentioned, but I'm sure the Panthers are hoping he can also put up 30+ points per season in his career. If he turns into just a shutdown guy, cool. But more is expected, and it shouldn't be surprising when he puts up the offensive #'s. He's young, mobile, and has the ability to do such things.


Last edited by Acadmus: 09-22-2010 at 08:49 PM. Reason: deleting offensive portion of quote
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Old
09-22-2010, 06:57 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
Just because Gudbranson has made some smart passes out of the zone and scored two points in a pre-season game doesn't mean we should be expecting the second coming of Chris Pronger. If he becomes a 30 point defenseman in his career I'm going to call him a homerun pick.
Not that you were necessarily saying they're the same, but as someone who follows the OHL closely, and someone who was very familiar with Bryan Allen and his career (he's from an outskirt county of Kingston, and played Junior C with Ernestown, which I saw quite a few games of before he'd even entered the OHL), I can say with all confidence that Allen never displayed the offensive bent to his game that Gudbranson does.

Even in junior, Allen showed very little offensive potential in his game. He was a defense-first guy, a rock in his own end who wasn't completely useless moving the puck up the ice. But not offensive. Gudbranson, on the other hand, has games where he dominates at both ends of the rink. He has games where he does look like he's capable of piling up the points.

While I'm not going to suggest Mike Green or Drew Doughty suddenly have competition for top scoring blueliner in the NHL, based on the games I've seen in junior, I really think you're underselling him if you think it's a stretch Gudbranson won't hit 30 points on a regular basis.

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Old
09-22-2010, 09:12 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=19311

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=50111

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=89981

Pretty much all of these guys had some sort of offensive game/potential before reaching the NHL level.

When a team drafts a D man in the top 5, the organization is hoping that the guy can be a 2-way D man.

The Panthers drafted Gudbranson for his shutdown abilities much like the guys you mentioned, but I'm sure the Panthers are hoping he can also put up 30+ points per season in his career. If he turns into just a shutdown guy, cool. But more is expected, and it shouldn't be surprising when he puts up the offensive #'s. He's young, mobile, and has the ability to do such things.

Flawed logic. Don't you think a team hopes EVERY pick puts up points, even late rounds? You just backpedaled.

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