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Sean Avery a goner?

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Old
09-23-2010, 10:01 AM
  #26
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Avery isnt going anywhere if he plays like he used to. Which he will at the start of the season. Not sure what Rick is talking about.

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09-23-2010, 10:01 AM
  #27
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From the reports and tweets from training camp, it seems like Avery is working his butt off and is having a good camp. Haven't really heard a lot about Fedotenko so I'd be shocked if he made at the team at Avery's expense. The beat writers are trying to get a rise out of the fanbase once again. Larry was concerned about Redden being the second coming of Orr in training camp and that obviously didn't happen.

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09-23-2010, 10:36 AM
  #28
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From: @AGrossRecord
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#NYRangers coach John Tortorella on this year's team: There will be some interesting decisions. There will be some changes.

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09-23-2010, 10:41 AM
  #29
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Avery just hasn't been the same player since returning to NY. Whether that's due to increased scrutiny by the league and the refs, or because Torts put a leash on him remains to be seen.

Regardless, I'm not at all interested in replacing him with Fedotenko. He was absolutely miserable in Pittsburgh for the 2nd half of last season.

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09-23-2010, 10:44 AM
  #30
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If Avery doesnt make the team because a young player like Grachev, Stepan, or Zucc play better than so be it. But if Avery doesnt make the team and Fedetenko does I will be so ****ing angry!!

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09-23-2010, 10:46 AM
  #31
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I want the old Avery back!

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09-23-2010, 10:46 AM
  #32
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This is making a mountain out of a mole hill. There are not 12 forwards that are better than Avery. He will be on the roster and is here to stay.

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09-23-2010, 10:49 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @AGrossRecord
Sent: Sep 23, 2010 11:29a

#NYRangers coach John Tortorella on this year's team: There will be some interesting decisions. There will be some changes.

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Oh no, Biron is beating out Lundqvist for the starting position

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Old
09-23-2010, 11:09 AM
  #34
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Avery's not going anywhere.

The cap savings of demoting him and playing a kid isn't enough to justify the move. So from a financial pov, it doesn't make any sense.

He can't be traded. Hartford isn't a good option either.

We're looking at a buyout if it doesn't work, imo. Unless Avery completely bombs, I don't think we'll see that.

I think we'll see a lot of what we saw in the past. Some inconsistency, an occasional benching, but nothing permanant.

Based on Leslie's reports it seems like Avery is in great condition to start the year. We're a young team, and Sean does have tenure here. He's one of the few veteran leaders, so I just don't see anything extreme happening.

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09-23-2010, 11:17 AM
  #35
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You'd pretty much have to be a lunatic to write him out of your plans at this point. If he were having a bad camp (which we all know is pretty much impossible), you can have the discussion rationally. Or if he was just having an ok camp, and somebody was pushing him... fine. But if he's giving you one of the best effort levels adn is one of the fastest, one of the most noticeable, and just outright one of the forwards with the most impact... to say "where does he fit in" simply makes no sense.

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09-23-2010, 11:27 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Avery just hasn't been the same player since returning to NY. Whether that's due to increased scrutiny by the league and the refs, or because Torts put a leash on him remains to be seen.
I would say that these are exactly the reasons as to why. He's got a target on his back with referees, Tortorella sends him mixed messages all season long...I don't blame the guy for not being able to find the right balance.

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Regardless, I'm not at all interested in replacing him with Fedotenko. He was absolutely miserable in Pittsburgh for the 2nd half of last season.
Totally agree. He's never been particularly great without superior talent on his line to begin with, but now he's lost a couple of steps, and a willingness to get dirty.

I don't care what people think about Avery and his antics (I'm not a particularly big fan myself of that aspect of him), the bottom line is he is a terrific role player when he plays his game. He's an EXCELLENT positional player at either end of the ice. He's got great instincts and anticipates the play very well.

This gets lost with a lot of people because they can't see past his behavior on and off the ice. This guy is one of the smarter players in the league. If he had better hands, he'd be a 25 goal, second liner. As it stands, when he plays his game, he's a very useful player. The key is straddling that line. With this coach, however, I can imagine that being a lot easier said than done.

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09-23-2010, 11:29 AM
  #37
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Considering the fact that he's such a polarizing figure and there are many who just refuse to acknowledge his actual hockey ability, this isn't surprising.

I don't even think Torts is dumb enough to make the team worse just because.

Just don't understand some of the Avery hate.

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09-23-2010, 11:30 AM
  #38
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I love Avery, but the refs have it out for him. So if we get the old Avery, which is what we need, the refs will throw penalties at him all the time, if we get the new behaved Avery, he is not effective and a below average player.

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09-23-2010, 11:31 AM
  #39
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If he doesn't take too many PIMS, and puts in around 15-15-30 then I can't imagine he doesn't deserve to be here. I doubt Fedotenko or Kennedy bring too much more than he does.

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09-23-2010, 11:34 AM
  #40
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the norwegian midget can start the year in hartford and get acclimated to the north america game. as ive said all along, hes gonna struggle. this aint the sel folks.

brandon prust is a 4th line player. i like his game but his hands are made of granite.

fedotenko shouldnt even be here. period.

if the clown keeps his homeboy fed and boots avery- which i think is unlikely, there will be hell to pay. i wouldnt put it past him though. the fans well freak out. say what you want about seans off ice persona, when hes on the ice and playing well, he makes a difference.

the clown cant have anyone around whos red nose is bigger and who wears crazier makeup. torts wont stand for that. and avery is that kinda guy, so him being sent to hartford isnt out of the realm.
I agree. It was ridiculous last season when people were pointing fingers at Avery when the entire team outside of Gaborik couldnt score.

There is no player like Avery on the Rangers. In fact, there are very few players in the league like him: an agitator who hits, can absolutely fly and create havoc along the boards.On top of that, the guy absolutely loves the sweater and the fans, and has proven to stand up for his teammates at the drop of a hat.

Avery is the perfect 3rd liner. He has also proven that he can provide offense.

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09-23-2010, 11:35 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I would say that these are exactly the reasons as to why. He's got a target on his back with referees, Tortorella sends him mixed messages all season long...I don't blame the guy for not being able to find the right balance.


Totally agree. He's never been particularly great without superior talent on his line to begin with, but now he's lost a couple of steps, and a willingness to get dirty.

I don't care what people think about Avery and his antics (I'm not a particularly big fan myself of that aspect of him), the bottom line is he is a terrific role player when he plays his game. He's an EXCELLENT positional player at either end of the ice. He's got great instincts and anticipates the play very well.

This gets lost with a lot of people because they can't see past his behavior on and off the ice. This guy is one of the smarter players in the league. If he had better hands, he'd be a 25 goal, second liner. As it stands, when he plays his game, he's a very useful player. The key is straddling that line. With this coach, however, I can imagine that being a lot easier said than done.
I agree with all of this and while it has been discussed at length in other Avery threads, I do think that there are way too many who look at his season last year and are just completely clueless.

Did he have a good year last year? It wasn't great, but the people who act like he was just putrid just haven't got a clue IMO.

Some people think that Avery is ONLY effective and worthy of a roster spot if he's running around like a chicken with his head cut off wreaking havoc everywhere.

It seems that Sean thrives and is at his best when that sort of thing is happening.

However, to not understand all the things that he does well (forechecking, cycling the puck, ALWAYS looking around and able to find linemates with great passes, etc) and then to look at last year and not be able to understand the flat out NEUTERING done to him by his head coach and the league, and just act like he was putrid is insane.

We all have agendas, I get that. But when you look on the stat sheet last year wasn't really that bad for Sean.

He didn't wreak havoc every night, but to act like that's all he's good for is just dumb. Flat out dumb.

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09-23-2010, 11:36 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
I want the old Avery back!
The old Avery will never be back.

At this point in his career, he needs to reinvent himself. Coaches, GM's, Scouts, Refs, Players, and Owners simply do not like Sean. He can't get away with anything on the ice.

Even when he's the recipient of a blatant call, it often goes overlooked because of his reputation.

Best thing for Sean is to be productive on the ice. Play solid two-way hockey. We all know he can play the game. He needs to find that fine-line that he often crosses, and work within it. Easier said than done though, especially when Zebra's are constantly peeking your direction.

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09-23-2010, 11:39 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
I love Avery, but the refs have it out for him. So if we get the old Avery, which is what we need, the refs will throw penalties at him all the time, if we get the new behaved Avery, he is not effective and a below average player.
How was he a below average hockey player last year?

This is what I don't understand from the people who think that he has to be a lunatic to be effective.

What are certain people's expectations of what he should produce that would qualify last season as being terrible or making him a below average player?

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09-23-2010, 11:40 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
I love Avery, but the refs have it out for him. So if we get the old Avery, which is what we need, the refs will throw penalties at him all the time, if we get the new behaved Avery, he is not effective and a below average player.
Can't agree with that.

Avery is a competent NHL hockey player. He can skate, pass, and shoot. Hits, blocks shots, and understands how to play in all three zones.

What makes Avery special, is obvious. Without it, he's just a typical third-liner. But saying he's a below average player is untrue. He would have been out of the league years ago if he didn't know how to play the game. If anything, his hockey sense is underrated; often overlooked because of his other skills. (if you want to call them that )

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09-23-2010, 11:42 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
The old Avery will never be back.

At this point in his career, he needs to reinvent himself. Coaches, GM's, Scouts, Refs, Players, and Owners simply do not like Sean. He can't get away with anything on the ice.

Even when he's the recipient of a blatant call, it often goes overlooked because of his reputation.

Best thing for Sean is to be productive on the ice. Play solid two-way hockey. We all know he can play the game. He needs to find that fine-line that he often crosses, and work within it. Easier said than done though, especially when Zebra's are constantly peeking your direction.

Agree with all of that, and while the double standard for Sean is unfair, and most of us would miss some of his antics, I don't really see anything wrong with Sean the hockey player.

The guy is something that every team could use.

For whatever reason there's a ton of Rangers fans who associate him not being a wild child on the ice with being ineffective.

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09-23-2010, 11:56 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Can't agree with that.

Avery is a competent NHL hockey player. He can skate, pass, and shoot. Hits, blocks shots, and understands how to play in all three zones.

What makes Avery special, is obvious. Without it, he's just a typical third-liner. But saying he's a below average player is untrue. He would have been out of the league years ago if he didn't know how to play the game. If anything, his hockey sense is underrated; often overlooked because of his other skills. (if you want to call them that )
Well, OK, maybe I was a little hrsh with the below average, then he is just average. But we need him to be what he was prior to him going to Dallas.

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09-23-2010, 11:58 AM
  #47
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What a bunch of overblown malarkey.

No way Avery isn't on the team right out of the gate. He has been one of the best and most consistent players in camp and seems to have a newly lit fire inside of him. I not only think he'll be on the roster, I can't wait to see him return to form.

Avery can bring so much to this club. Last year was an awkward one for him, but I've seen no reason yet to believe he won't put his money where his mouth is this year.

Sean will be a vital part of our club this year. Bank on it.

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Old
09-23-2010, 11:59 AM
  #48
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Well, OK, maybe I was a little hrsh with the below average, then he is just average. But we need him to be what he was prior to him going to Dallas.
What do you mean?

If he's an agitating third liner who makes plays, forechecks well, creates scoring chances, cycles the puck, and scores between 30-40 points a year, what else do we need from him?

Avery is not the problem with this team, and he wasn't last year.

If the top 6 isn't good enough that Sean Avery has to be in it, then the problem is the Top 6, not Avery's for being what he is.

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09-23-2010, 12:02 PM
  #49
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Odd that Avery's line assignment is used to speculate on his future in a negative light, while Fedetenko and White are seen as possibles to make the team. Why is it odd? All three are on the same line in camp.

White and EC are competing with each other, Stepan has the top center spot until he loses it. EC slides in there in that instance.

Boyle and Kennedy are competing with Drury, and at the moment for the opportunity to take Drury's spot during the injury. I see Stepan, EC, Anisimov/Drury down the middle. Drury getting lots of special teams minutes so Anisimov will be played accordingly with the 3rd and 4th to rest Drury.

Ultimately this is Sather's call, not Tortorella. Fedetenko couldn't hack it with Crosby and Malkin as his centers, don't really see how he wins a spot or makes and impact with any of our centers. Avery has been impressive at camp thus far, one of the best conditioned and he is flying in scrimmage.

It will be tight, but I expect 14 forwards on the roster. Don't think anything is determined yet, everything is still up for grabs.

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Old
09-23-2010, 12:11 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Avery just hasn't been the same player since returning to NY. Whether that's due to increased scrutiny by the league and the refs, or because Torts put a leash on him remains to be seen.
I'm sure some of it is due to Avery....

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