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Sean Avery a goner?

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Old
09-23-2010, 06:07 PM
  #76
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just the record with avery in the lineup, producing or not, seems to be pretty stable, last year and the year before...

id think its silly to take him out. at least see how he mixes with the new dudes

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09-23-2010, 07:40 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Avery just hasn't been the same player since returning to NY. Whether that's due to increased scrutiny by the league and the refs, or because Torts put a leash on him remains to be seen.

Regardless, I'm not at all interested in replacing him with Fedotenko. He was absolutely miserable in Pittsburgh for the 2nd half of last season.
It's not up to us, I saw the quote below from Ranger Rants (Andrew Gross) and it seems like Fedotenko is really someone Tortorella wants to be able to have on the team. Obviously, a lot will depend on what happens in the pre-season games and with the cap situation, but clearly there is the comfort level factor too.

"Left wing Ruslan Fedotenko, who played so well for Tortorella during the Lightnings run to the Cup in 2004 as well as the next season but struggled last season in Pittsburgh with a minus-17, is also trying to earn a roster spot as a tryout. Tortorella said he wants to see Fedotenko play a complete game, which he knows he can do.

What he needs to do and which I think he can do is play both sides of the puck, Tortorella said. Hes very strong on the puck. At times in the scrimmages, he was good at protecting the puck. Hes a good forechecking forward. We need him to score goals. Hes a complete player. These exhibition games are important, Im anxious to see. Hell be playing with different people to get him some opportunities to be a complete guy. Thats what he is, a complete player. Im not sure what happened last year."

http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/r...get_long_look/

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09-23-2010, 07:54 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Avery's got lots of intangibles and doesn't have a 7 million cap hit like some other dead wood.
I don't think the shot about "other dead wood" and their cap hit is relevent. And Avery's "intangibles" are a double edged sword to Tortorella--who is the one putting together the players he wants on his team.

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09-23-2010, 11:14 PM
  #79
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Avery and Lundqvist were the vocal leaders on the team last season. I don't see Avery going anywhere for a slew of reasons.

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09-23-2010, 11:30 PM
  #80
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Avery will be here. He's a team leader and most importantly he's someone a lot of players, some of whom are pretty amazing talents, don't like to play against. When Gabby got hammered by Carcillo Avery was there to throw punches with him. When Torts said everyone should be in shape for camp, Avery showed up and impressed everyone. I just don't see him going anywhere. He's worth more to NYR than any other team in my opinion.

Having said all this, I'd like to see him come out on fire this season and blow away the critics.

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09-24-2010, 12:49 AM
  #81
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I think the only one responsible for Avery making the team, is Avery. He was just plain unproductive last season, so that coupled with his cap hit makes him a target, especially if he is "blocking" one of de yutes from making the club.

Sean on his A game, brings it on a regular basis, but what game will he bring this season is the question. Sandpaper, grit, getting under the skin of the opposition are all qualities that NY needs. So Sean where were these qualities last season ? NY could have used it to have picked up 1 more point going into the flyers home at home to close out the season.

I don't believe he is for sure going to make the team. Probably yes, but for sure ? no.

Coach has already said nobody gets a spot guaranteed which clearly means that there are spots up for grabs.

If you ask yourself who would you prefer to see
Weise or Avery ?
Prust or Avery ?
Factor in that there is no space for Sean on the top 6 and in fact it could be argued that there is no space for him on the top 9.
Now factor is the cap hit

I know SA is a fan favorite and the garden tends to display more energy in the air when Sean is on the ice.

The question I have is

"are one of Weise, Prust, fill in the blank, capable of bringing the same level of play ?

probably not

So I am left wondering who gets the cut so Sean can make the team ?

Personally I prefer to see Prust or Weise but thats just my opinion and lord knows we have plenty of that on these boards !

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09-24-2010, 12:55 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Avery will be here. He's a team leader and most importantly he's someone a lot of players, some of whom are pretty amazing talents, don't like to play against. When Gabby got hammered by Carcillo Avery was there to throw punches with him. When Torts said everyone should be in shape for camp, Avery showed up and impressed everyone. I just don't see him going anywhere. He's worth more to NYR than any other team in my opinion.

Having said all this, I'd like to see him come out on fire this season and blow away the critics.
me too...but its the same, when a player struggles everyone is ready to throw them under the bus..the guys electric and im looking forward to watching him this season

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09-24-2010, 12:56 AM
  #83
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Listen, theres a reason why the Penguins got rid of Fedetenko...Enough said.

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09-24-2010, 01:00 AM
  #84
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Much prefer to replace the coach. :(

Stupid move to give a blow-hard, hot-head coach like Torturella a free hand on personnel decisions. We're going nowhere with that guy.

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09-24-2010, 01:01 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRTtoZ View Post
Listen, theres a reason why the Penguins got rid of Fedetenko...Enough said.
if anyones going to make the team from those three on tryout, ill take semenov

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09-24-2010, 01:37 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
Stupid move to give a blow-hard, hot-head coach like Torturella a free hand on personnel decisions. We're going nowhere with that guy.
Who said he has a free hand on personnel decisions? Unless you mean making lines and cutting players, which every coach in the entire league has "free hand" to do since its their job.

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Old
09-24-2010, 08:18 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SRTtoZ View Post
Listen, theres a reason why the Penguins got rid of Fedetenko...Enough said.
I'm not defending Fedetenko, but there are plenty of players who have horrible seasons for a team and then come back the next year with another and play up to their abilities again. Will Fedetenko make the team solely because of his history with Tortorella? No. But, he has a clean slate right now and if he shows Tortorella he can be effective like he was for most of his career, chances are we will be seeing him sign a contract here.

The argument can be made that Avery is in the same position. The only difference is Avery is already under contract and pretty much untradeable.

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09-24-2010, 08:38 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Avery and Lundqvist were the vocal leaders on the team last season. I don't see Avery going anywhere for a slew of reasons.
Good point.

Something that I think most people don't pay attention to for some reason.

People love believing in this conspiracy theory that he's a guy that divides the locker room.

Except last year, we heard the exact opposite.


Quote:
Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
I think the only one responsible for Avery making the team, is Avery. He was just plain unproductive last season, so that coupled with his cap hit makes him a target, especially if he is "blocking" one of de yutes from making the club.

Sean on his A game, brings it on a regular basis, but what game will he bring this season is the question. Sandpaper, grit, getting under the skin of the opposition are all qualities that NY needs. So Sean where were these qualities last season ? NY could have used it to have picked up 1 more point going into the flyers home at home to close out the season.

I don't believe he is for sure going to make the team. Probably yes, but for sure ? no.

Coach has already said nobody gets a spot guaranteed which clearly means that there are spots up for grabs.

If you ask yourself who would you prefer to see
Weise or Avery ?
Prust or Avery ?
Factor in that there is no space for Sean on the top 6 and in fact it could be argued that there is no space for him on the top 9.
Now factor is the cap hit

I know SA is a fan favorite and the garden tends to display more energy in the air when Sean is on the ice.

The question I have is

"are one of Weise, Prust, fill in the blank, capable of bringing the same level of play ?

probably not

So I am left wondering who gets the cut so Sean can make the team ?

Personally I prefer to see Prust or Weise but thats just my opinion and lord knows we have plenty of that on these boards !
I'm sorry, but I would just like you to explain how Sean Avery's season was "un-productive" last year, and then explain what you think is a productive one for him.

Go look at his production since 2005...And explain to me how this was an un-productive year.

This is Sean Avery.

Did he run around like a maniac? No. Because he couldn't. He was fully neutered.

Now I know this sounds shocking to you...but even without the antics, the guy had a solid season for a third liner. Not to mention he was always the guy called upon to ignite new line combos and play above his head for this team.

This whole notion of Avery having a horrible year last year is ridiculous.

He wasn't Sean Avery, I get that. There was no way he could be.

But to act like that's all he's good for just makes you and everyone else who says this look like you don't know a damn thing about hockey.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
I'm not defending Fedetenko, but there are plenty of players who have horrible seasons for a team and then come back the next year with another and play up to their abilities again. Will Fedetenko make the team solely because of his history with Tortorella? No. But, he has a clean slate right now and if he shows Tortorella he can be effective like he was for most of his career, chances are we will be seeing him sign a contract here.

The argument can be made that Avery is in the same position. The only difference is Avery is already under contract and pretty much untradeable.

I think you're reading too much into the Fedotenko thing though and the quote from Torts.

That was 2004.

Sather has been quoted of saying they would bring in ANYONE and EVERYONE for a tryout if they could because he likes the competition and giving guys second chances.

If this organization wants to eliminate a sure thing in Avery to allow someone like Fedotenko to come in and hope and pray he can pot 20, then we've got some pretty big issues.

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, and some players do suffer down years and get better. Fedotenko hasn't had a good season since 2005. Last year, Avery OUT produced him on the stat sheet, and look who Ruslan was playing with.

It's one thing to have an off year, it's another thing to clearly be showing the past five years that you're pretty much done.

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09-24-2010, 08:44 AM
  #89
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Man, has this board done a flop. Its almost refreshing in a way.

But Avery will be here, whether it will be at 3rd line LW, or on the 4th line, but he will be on the roster, no doubt in my mind.

His contract expires right around the time that Hagelin should be ready to take over.

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09-24-2010, 09:03 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Man, has this board done a flop. Its almost refreshing in a way.

But Avery will be here, whether it will be at 3rd line LW, or on the 4th line, but he will be on the roster, no doubt in my mind.

His contract expires right around the time that Hagelin should be ready to take over.
I think Avery is going to flip to the other Wing.

right now if I had to pick the team I would say LW will be Frolov, Dubinsky, Prospal, Boogaard.

RW i see Gaborik, Callahan, Avery, Prust

C I see Stepan, Anisimov, Drury, Christiensen with Kennedy and Boyle as spares at all Forward spots.

White sent down due to cap although I bet he still has game and Fedotenko either gone or a 2 way deal for depth.

I think Grachev and Zuccarello are call ups and next yr they take over for Prospal and one other spot. honrable mention to Weise and Byers. Newbury and Williams are career AHLers but have 4th line potential on a call up.

If only Drury was gone and a true top C like Brad Richards was in his spot this team would be looking pretty good

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Old
09-24-2010, 11:39 AM
  #91
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WOW, are we still discussing this "non issue?" You Avery haters have to stop with this crap, he isn't going any where!!!! He has looked stellar in camp and looks like he is in great form. Hate him all you want, but the dynamics of this team just aren't the same without him, the Rangers and Avery are a match made in heaven.

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09-24-2010, 11:55 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Actually what's typical of hfboards and other forums is people writing, "typical hfboards" so as to put themselves above the rest of humanity.

Argue against the man's argument, not against the man's credentials. I am in charge of marketing in my firm and I bet I bring in far more business than you do, and I agree with him - so does that make him suddenly right? If someone here is more successful than me on marketing and disagrees with the that guy, would the accuracy of his statement suddenly reverse?

Make your argument, and let the facts decide.

And for God's sake, stop writing "typical HF" as if you are better than anyone else here because the fact that you would write "typical HF" pretty much makes you worse than others, worse in every sense: morally, intellectually, etc
You make a point with the underlying attitude, but how can anyone argue that Avery doesn't impact the dollar side of the team? Avery is one of the more popular jerseys after Lundqvist and Gaborik. Avery makes the headlines and news as much as anyone after Lundqvist and Gaborik. He's known league-wide and people tune in just to see how a game against Dallas, Tucker or Phaneauf might turn out. Avery has marketability and that is simply a fact, the results are tangible.

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09-24-2010, 11:57 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Brooks ever consider the fact that the reason Avery was the only "varsity" player not put with regulars is because he will be the only stable player in the 4th line and the center and RW spot on that line will be a revolving door.

I could do Brooks' job for crying out loud.

I'm sorry, but this is not a mystery or conspiracy. And this is one of the reasons I had been calling for Werek to make the club. Because Boyle, White, Christensen at center are not long term nore are they stable options for even one season.

And the RW spot on that line will be equally as metamorphic. Unless Weise claims that spot. Prust and Boogaard are not regulars that can hold down an NHL spot for an 82 game season. They haven't their entire careers, why would they suddenly now?

So, again, common sense for anyone who has been following the Rangers' summer, ESPECIALLY a BEAT WRITER should know that Avery is going to be the only stable player on that line. He's the most skilled player in that group. And he is the most complex (not one dimensional).

Frolov. Stepan. Gaborik
Dubinsky. Anisimov. Grachev
Prospal. Drury. Callahan
Avery. Xxxxx. Xxxxx

Boyle, Prust, White, Christensen, Fedotenko, Boogaard, Kennedy, Zuccarello-Aasen, Werek, Weise, Byers.

Best players in that group are Werek and Weise. And that's who I'd go with. And then have Prust and Boogaard as the healthy scratch/rotation players.
^^^The buoy of reason in this sea of speculation.

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09-24-2010, 01:07 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
You make a point with the underlying attitude, but how can anyone argue that Avery doesn't impact the dollar side of the team? Avery is one of the more popular jerseys after Lundqvist and Gaborik. Avery makes the headlines and news as much as anyone after Lundqvist and Gaborik. He's known league-wide and people tune in just to see how a game against Dallas, Tucker or Phaneauf might turn out. Avery has marketability and that is simply a fact, the results are tangible.

That's a good, intelligent, well-thought out argument. That is not what I was arguing against, however.

What irritated me was his (and others') statement that something is "typical HF". The unstated, but clear meaning of this is, "I am better than all/most of you." The question begs, therefore, why? Why are you better than the rest of this forum? And if you are (or are not), is it not obnoxious for you to say so?

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09-24-2010, 07:29 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
That's a good, intelligent, well-thought out argument. That is not what I was arguing against, however.

What irritated me was his (and others') statement that something is "typical HF". The unstated, but clear meaning of this is, "I am better than all/most of you." The question begs, therefore, why? Why are you better than the rest of this forum? And if you are (or are not), is it not obnoxious for you to say so?
*Ugh* Another "typical" internet cliche... no, I'm not better. But I think I can communicate without a blanket insult as the only means to retort somebody's point with no substantive discourse in said response... BETTER.

I assume a bunch of posts were deleted by mods that I can't address. Not that it matters since it's an insignificant issue all together.

As to your "bringing in more business" than I do? I have no idea (neither do you) and I couldn't care less. I do fairly well at least to the point where I do "know the meaning of marketing". I do however wish you well in your marketing endeavors. Godspeed. I'll chalk up your opinion that Avery isn't a marketable draw more to a bias rather than an indictment of your abilities.

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09-24-2010, 08:43 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by SRTtoZ View Post
Listen, theres a reason why the Penguins got rid of Fedetenko...Enough said.
A bunch of teams have gotten rid of Avery. Same verdict?

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09-24-2010, 08:53 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post
*Ugh* Another "typical" internet cliche... no, I'm not better. But I think I can communicate without a blanket insult as the only means to retort somebody's point with no substantive discourse in said response... BETTER.

I assume a bunch of posts were deleted by mods that I can't address. Not that it matters since it's an insignificant issue all together.

As to your "bringing in more business" than I do? I have no idea (neither do you) and I couldn't care less. I do fairly well at least to the point where I do "know the meaning of marketing". I do however wish you well in your marketing endeavors. Godspeed. I'll chalk up your opinion that Avery isn't a marketable draw more to a bias rather than an indictment of your abilities.
Marketable can mean one of two things in this case: Either he is worth a lot in a trade or he adds cash to the organization.

I maintain he is worth near nothing in a trade. Do you disagree?

I maintain that he puts incredibly negligible money into the pockets of Dolan. He has zero effect on attendance, TV revenue, and advertising dollars.

The only thing you could argue he brings in is some Jersey sales. How much do you think gets spent on Avery jerseys and how much of that goes into Dolan's pockets?

If there is another way he is marketable, I'm missing it.

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09-24-2010, 08:59 PM
  #98
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The only thing you could argue he brings in is some Jersey sales. How much do you think gets spent on Avery jerseys and how much of that goes into Dolan's
Another question to ask is, for the people who are buying Avery jerseys, would they not be purchasing a jersey with any other player's name on it if Avery wasn't on the team? I would submit that they would be....

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09-24-2010, 09:01 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post
*Ugh* Another "typical" internet cliche... no, I'm not better. But I think I can communicate without a blanket insult as the only means to retort somebody's point with no substantive discourse in said response... BETTER.

I assume a bunch of posts were deleted by mods that I can't address. Not that it matters since it's an insignificant issue all together.

As to your "bringing in more business" than I do? I have no idea (neither do you) and I couldn't care less. I do fairly well at least to the point where I do "know the meaning of marketing". I do however wish you well in your marketing endeavors. Godspeed. I'll chalk up your opinion that Avery isn't a marketable draw more to a bias rather than an indictment of your abilities.
Any debate about Sean Avery's marketability need not include vocabulary words such as: substantive discourse - indictment - godspeed - retort - etc. I know what all these words mean, but you don't have to bring them out for the purpose of trying to trump the poster you're debating with.

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09-24-2010, 09:03 PM
  #100
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Yaaaaaaaaaaawn....

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