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Preseason Bill Guerin thread.. (Post #405 Guerin Released)

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Old
09-24-2010, 09:44 AM
  #26
dbr2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Homer is a moron, though. He'll sign Guerin and pay for it with Powe being on LTIR and then when Powe gets back there will be a cluster**** with the salary cap.
Yep, pretty much. The same **** he got into 2 years ago, when he waived Metro and Ossi to clear cap so Briere could come back. I believe it was Briere.

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09-24-2010, 09:45 AM
  #27
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Waive Shelley and make Guerin our enforcer. Let his face get pounded by Orr and Boogard to prove he still really wants to play.

As I have previously mentioned, he's old, washed up and cannot contribute anything more to a scoring line than one of our younger players who we theoretically should be developing rather than burying in the A. Case ****ing closed.

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09-24-2010, 09:46 AM
  #28
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In the two preseason games thus far what I've noticed from Bill Geriatric is inconsistency. That is a symptom of age. If he signs for 500K I can stomach it somewhat but I'm not really sure that his pluses offset his minuses at this point...

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09-24-2010, 09:48 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
Yep, pretty much. The same **** he got into 2 years ago, when he waived Metro and Ossi to clear cap so Briere could come back. I believe it was Briere.
He also traded Upshall around the same time and really effed up the psyche of the team but the space was not only cleared for a still unhealthy Briere but to keep Giroux as well....to be fair.

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09-24-2010, 09:48 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
You waive Walker, done and done.
I really don't think the team will do that unless something forces them to act rationally.

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09-24-2010, 09:49 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Homer is a moron, though. He'll sign Guerin and pay for it with Powe being on LTIR and then when Powe gets back there will be a cluster**** with the salary cap.
Powe? Do you mean Betts or is Powe now injured, too?

Guerin is just awful but I have a feeling this thread is moot and that he's already been given a contract, or at least a handshake deal is in place. The guy just doesn't have it anymore and the turnovers are costly.

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09-24-2010, 09:50 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Powe? Do you mean Betts or is Powe now injured, too?

Guerin is just awful but I have a feeling this thread is moot and that he's already been given a contract, or at least a handshake deal is in place. The guy just doesn't have it anymore and the turnovers are costly.
Yeah, meant Betts.

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09-24-2010, 09:51 AM
  #33
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I'm not a Walker backer at all but thus far I haven't seen anything glaringly bad from the guy to be honest...let him at least start screwing up for people to want to waive the dude otherwise it's more out of emotional reaction to the Gagne trade which was horrid...

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09-24-2010, 09:58 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
You're confusing the concept of Bill Guerin with the reality.

I think most people agree that Bill Guerin SHOULD be the perfect complement to JVR and Giroux. Poise, veteran savvy, leadership, size, a scoring touch, and (historically speaking) decent defensive responsibility. He should be a perfect #9 scorer that this team is otherwise lacking.

But he looks way too slow out there. I don't think he's still the Bill Guerin that we want him to be...and if he's not, then we have to accept that if the reality of Bill Guerin won't live up to the concept, then we gotta let him go.
Regular season, he is asked to put up 13-15mins evTOI time and he will be fine. JvR is going to get a jump in his minutes but not much. I am sure that during the season Giroux will get double shifted to replace someone, but as it stands having Carcillo or Powe in the top 9 over a guy like Guerin for a playoff contending(supposedly Stanley Cup contending) team makes zero sense. This is the type of move made by a team who is the "win this year mode" and I agree with bringing him in to spport the current cast.

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Old
09-24-2010, 09:59 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Powe? Do you mean Betts or is Powe now injured, too?

Guerin is just awful but I have a feeling this thread is moot and that he's already been given a contract, or at least a handshake deal is in place. The guy just doesn't have it anymore and the turnovers are costly.
I am not sold on that. It seems Guerin was hanging around Philly since the off-season started trying to get a contract here, but he still didn't get one. IIRC his agent said he wanted a contract and not a tryout, so it seems there is still some hesitation.

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09-24-2010, 10:02 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
Zherdev's up there too. Guerin would be the 9th 'scoring' forward. I'm honestly getting a little worried about our forwards' defensive ability. Not a lot there (top 9, at least), and Guerin does absolutely nothing to help it.
I knew I was missing someone.... so now we're looking at 8 top-6 players without friggen Guerin.

Losing Gagne definitely hits the defensive ability of the forwards. Especially when he's being "replaced" by Zherdev. Roo has the ability to improve in that area, and there are a bunch of strong forecheckers available. Briere is pretty much a lost cause on the defensive side of the puck; JVR may get there one day, but I'd rather see him really work on his offensive game.

If Homer likes having Guerin around, he needs to name him to the staff and have him sit beside him in the pressbox every game. At least that way, Guerin can't hurt the team.

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Old
09-24-2010, 10:03 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Regular season, he is asked to put up 13-15mins evTOI time and he will be fine. JvR is going to get a jump in his minutes but not much. I am sure that during the season Giroux will get double shifted to replace someone, but as it stands having Carcillo or Powe in the top 9 over a guy like Guerin for a playoff contending(supposedly Stanley Cup contending) team makes zero sense. This is the type of move made by a team who is the "win this year mode" and I agree with bringing him in to spport the current cast.
So, in short, you're in support of our GM, who has no grasp of what the words "cap compliant" mean, to sign a 40 year-old forward (meaning a 35+ contract) who clearly has nothing left to contribute on the ice whatsoever.

Sounds like an awesome idea.

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Old
09-24-2010, 10:13 AM
  #38
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I feel this whole situation is similar to when you see a really good deal on ebay or something. You buy it just because, although it has been used it is at great discount. But you quickly realize that not only are you never using the item, but it is taking up space in your house.

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Old
09-24-2010, 10:15 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
So, in short, you're in support of our GM, who has no grasp of what the words "cap compliant" mean, to sign a 40 year-old forward (meaning a 35+ contract) who clearly has nothing left to contribute on the ice whatsoever.

Sounds like an awesome idea.
I've seen this argument a few times that if he signs it will be a 35+ Contract. It is evident that if he signs it will be for a year only, his contract wont be a burden and will not have any effect next year.

Can you stash a 35+ Contract in the minors without takling a hit?

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09-24-2010, 10:15 AM
  #40
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Guerin is just so.... meh. I really don't see any reason that we would need to sign him.

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Old
09-24-2010, 10:16 AM
  #41
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oh oh...Meltzer's passive praise of Guerin..

Again as a 500K spot duty player..I can stomach him somewhat...

Quote:
* It was nice to see Bill Guerin tally goals in regulation and the shootout. In the shootout frame, he showed that he still has one hell of a quick shot release.

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Old
09-24-2010, 10:17 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
So, in short, you're in support of our GM, who has no grasp of what the words "cap compliant" mean, to sign a 40 year-old forward (meaning a 35+ contract) who clearly has nothing left to contribute on the ice whatsoever.

Sounds like an awesome idea.
Not necessarily a problem... I'm not sure what the deal was with Shanny last year, but he didn't count against the Devs cap after he left... may have just been the timing of everything. Though, he did have a contract with the Devs.

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09-24-2010, 10:20 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Wils98 View Post
I've seen this argument a few times that if he signs it will be a 35+ Contract. It is evident that if he signs it will be for a year only, his contract wont be a burden and will not have any effect next year.

Can you stash a 35+ Contract in the minors without takling a hit?
It will only reduce the cap hit buy 100k.

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Old
09-24-2010, 10:22 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Wils98 View Post
I've seen this argument a few times that if he signs it will be a 35+ Contract. It is evident that if he signs it will be for a year only, his contract wont be a burden and will not have any effect next year.

Can you stash a 35+ Contract in the minors without takling a hit?
35+ contracts count against the cap even in the minors.

The Devils terminated Shanny's contract last year, which seems like a huge loophole... and I'm not entirely sure why it was legit.

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09-24-2010, 10:25 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
35+ contracts count against the cap even in the minors.

The Devils terminated Shanny's contract last year, which seems like a huge loophole... and I'm not entirely sure why it was legit.
Bettman and Daly were distracted that day. Must've been Pudding Day in the NHL office, or something like that.

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Old
09-24-2010, 10:27 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Regular season, he is asked to put up 13-15mins evTOI time and he will be fine. JvR is going to get a jump in his minutes but not much. I am sure that during the season Giroux will get double shifted to replace someone, but as it stands having Carcillo or Powe in the top 9 over a guy like Guerin for a playoff contending(supposedly Stanley Cup contending) team makes zero sense. This is the type of move made by a team who is the "win this year mode" and I agree with bringing him in to spport the current cast.
I don't think he will be fine.

He looks slow, lost, and useless against teams comprised mostly of AHL players.

Either he's not trying, or he doesn't have anything left to contribute and he will hurt this team. I don't care about the money since I assume his cap hit will be close to minimum for one year only. I care about the roster moves necessary to fit him in.

So far he's demonstrated that he is too old and slow to keep up with any of our young layers and contribute; and if anything, his turnovers in the offensive and neutral zones will be costly. Best case scenario, they kill offensive pressure for us. Worst case, we get scored on because he can't move his old feet.

Are you actually watching him play and choosing to ignore it because you want to assume he'll get good when the games count? That's not how tryouts work.

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09-24-2010, 10:30 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
35+ contracts count against the cap even in the minors.

The Devils terminated Shanny's contract last year, which seems like a huge loophole... and I'm not entirely sure why it was legit.
Didn't he decide to retire almost immediately into the season?

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Old
09-24-2010, 10:31 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
So, in short, you're in support of our GM, who has no grasp of what the words "cap compliant" mean, to sign a 40 year-old forward (meaning a 35+ contract) who clearly has nothing left to contribute on the ice whatsoever.

Sounds like an awesome idea.
NO, I think he screwed up royally and he is trying to piece together a team with three lines that can contribute.

So it seems like Laviolette likes the idea of Zherdev with Richards and Carter. This is a top line, no problems.

Next is Leino-Briere-Hartnell, Laviolette is on record he is going to keep this line together going into the season unless something changes.

JvR-Giroux were paired together last season, seems like Laviolette may keep them together which leaves Laviolette with trying to fit Carcillo with those two, which is a very poor match. So along comes Guerin, he can play RW, has experience, likes to play around the crease which benefits JvR and Giroux, has the experience of a vet and can still get you 30-40pts realistically with 13-15mins TOI.


So bringing Guerin at a low cost, high possible reward is precisely what he has done all offseason. This move is no different than bringing in Meszaros or Zherdev, two other reclamation projects.

To answer your question about supporting Homer, I have been against his moves all along. He should have:

1) Traded Carter to LA for Quick or Bernier and pieces(players or draft picks). Let's just put this idea out there: Carter for Quick and J Johnson.

2) Sign Zherdev for his contract, fine with that, but in doing so keep Gagne and his expiring contract.

3) Sign O'Donnell.

All said you would have saved cap space in the deal for Quick and J Johnson, gotten a huge upgrade over Meszaros. You would have lost Carter but the offense and defense would have gained a goalie who started 70+ games last season and is 24 and a young d-man who has tons of upside.

Lineup:

Carcillo-Richards-Hartnell
Gagne-Briere-Leino
JvR-Giroux-Zherdev
Shelley-Betts-Laperriere-Powe

Carle-Pronger
J Johnson-Timonen
O'Donnell-Coburn
Bartulis

Quick-Leighton

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Old
09-24-2010, 10:33 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I don't think he will be fine.

He looks slow, lost, and useless against teams comprised mostly of AHL players.

Either he's not trying, or he doesn't have anything left to contribute and he will hurt this team. I don't care about the money since I assume his cap hit will be close to minimum for one year only. I care about the roster moves necessary to fit him in.

So far he's demonstrated that he is too old and slow to keep up with any of our young layers and contribute; and if anything, his turnovers in the offensive and neutral zones will be costly. Best case scenario, they kill offensive pressure for us. Worst case, we get scored on because he can't move his old feet.

Are you actually watching him play and choosing to ignore it because you want to assume he'll get good when the games count? That's not how tryouts work.

Let's be honest with ourselves here. Holmstrom is in camp for a tryout, Guerin is in camp for a workout and a contract. If he stays healthy up until opening day he will be on the roster and he makes the roster deeper and better. Carcillo is a nice player, but given the choice going into the playoffs I would want Guerin over Carcillo every night.

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Old
09-24-2010, 10:37 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Didn't he decide to retire almost immediately into the season?
Didn't officially retire until November.

The deal with the Devs was that they apparently had a handshake agreement that if he couldn't play on the top 3 lines, they would part ways. Now the CBA lets you terminate the contract of players that don't show up (in the minors, for example)... because they're not rendering services that you're paying for. So, an easy way to get rid of a player is to waive him (necessary step) and then terminate him for not showing up (believe that's what happened with Krajicek last year).

Now, in the normal course of things, that's not a big deal... when you're talking about a 35+ deal, it's a bit shady.

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