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Preseason Bill Guerin thread.. (Post #405 Guerin Released)

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Old
09-24-2010, 11:41 AM
  #51
StandingCow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post

Lineup:

Carcillo-Richards-Hartnell
Gagne-Briere-Leino
JvR-Giroux-Zherdev
Shelley-Betts-Laperriere-Powe

Carle-Pronger
J Johnson-Timonen
O'Donnell-Coburn
Bartulis

Quick-Leighton
Seeing what could have been the team this year really makes me .

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Old
09-24-2010, 11:42 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by StandingCow View Post
Seeing what could have been the team this year really makes me .
That team gets owned down the middle. Owned.

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Old
09-24-2010, 11:43 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Let's be honest with ourselves here. Holmstrom is in camp for a tryout, Guerin is in camp for a workout and a contract. If he stays healthy up until opening day he will be on the roster and he makes the roster deeper and better. Carcillo is a nice player, but given the choice going into the playoffs I would want Guerin over Carcillo every night.
As someone who has seen Guerin for 60+ games last season and has witnessed his inability to play against AHL calibre players this preseason, I can't disagree with your post enough.

Guerin is done. Finished. He doesn't make this team "deeper" or "better". WTF is this infatuation with adding a guy who clearly can't play anymore?

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09-24-2010, 11:51 AM
  #54
Beef Invictus
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from what i've seen this preseason, i'd rather use cap space to build a catapult to launch bill into the middle of the ocean. that would be a better use of cap space than letting him play.

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Old
09-24-2010, 11:53 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
NO, I think he screwed up royally and he is trying to piece together a team with three lines that can contribute.

So it seems like Laviolette likes the idea of Zherdev with Richards and Carter. This is a top line, no problems.

Next is Leino-Briere-Hartnell, Laviolette is on record he is going to keep this line together going into the season unless something changes.

JvR-Giroux were paired together last season, seems like Laviolette may keep them together which leaves Laviolette with trying to fit Carcillo with those two, which is a very poor match. So along comes Guerin, he can play RW, has experience, likes to play around the crease which benefits JvR and Giroux, has the experience of a vet and can still get you 30-40pts realistically with 13-15mins TOI.


So bringing Guerin at a low cost, high possible reward is precisely what he has done all offseason. This move is no different than bringing in Meszaros or Zherdev, two other reclamation projects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Let's be honest with ourselves here. Holmstrom is in camp for a tryout, Guerin is in camp for a workout and a contract. If he stays healthy up until opening day he will be on the roster and he makes the roster deeper and better. Carcillo is a nice player, but given the choice going into the playoffs I would want Guerin over Carcillo every night.

Is Guerin your favorite player or something?

You're completely ignoring the reality. You're expecting him to put up the same points he got on a line with Sidney F***ing Crosby and getting PP time while playing on the third line here? And on a team that expects more skating and a higher tempo on the forecheck?

Open your freaking eyes, dude. He cannot keep up with JVR and Giroux and is constantly turning the puck over. He's not producing at all. Even if he's taking it lightly because it's preseason, he should look better against a bunch of AHL players than he has.


I'm starting to think you either don't know anything about hockey, or just refuse to actually watch. Guerin is not low risk, high reward at all.

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Old
09-24-2010, 12:03 PM
  #56
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So yea, already found this years scape goat. Well its either gonna be Guerin or Leighton. Carle and Coburn will be mentioned here and there.

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09-24-2010, 12:05 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
So yea, already found this years scape goat. Well its either gonna be Guerin or Leighton. Carle and Coburn will be mentioned here and there.
If Guerin plays regularly on this team as badly as he has in preseason, then yes, he's the goat. But a deserving one, unlike years past.

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09-24-2010, 12:10 PM
  #58
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I was in favor of bringing him in for a tryout...because it's not like we lose anything by it. But after these two games it's pretty evident why Pittsburgh got rid of him; he can't play. Whatever line he is on he will drag down. His speed is non-existent, he turns the puck way to frequently and it appears that he likely won't contribute much offensively.

Honestly, I wouldn't want on the team unless he was the 13th forward. I'd much rather see Carcillo in the top 9.

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Old
09-24-2010, 12:14 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
That team gets owned down the middle. Owned.
That team down the middle made it to the SCF's, just sayin'.

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09-24-2010, 12:16 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
from what i've seen this preseason, i'd rather use cap space to build a catapult to launch bill into the middle of the ocean. that would be a better use of cap space than letting him play.
It's not even the cap space that bothers me, although this team has precious little of it.

To me, it's pretty clear that he can't provide enough offensively at even strength to make up for this deficiencies in almost every other area on the ice. He doesn't fit our system at all.

We aren't in dire need of his locker room leadership and we aren't in dire need of his work on the PP. Those are the two areas where he can help a team. It's a waste of a roster spot for Philly.

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Old
09-24-2010, 12:16 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
As someone who has seen Guerin for 60+ games last season and has witnessed his inability to play against AHL calibre players this preseason, I can't disagree with your post enough.

Guerin is done. Finished. He doesn't make this team "deeper" or "better". WTF is this infatuation with adding a guy who clearly can't play anymore?
Guerin >>> Carcillo or any other player you can --> insert here-->

Bottom line it is not the greatest of choices or options, but all things considered on the cheap it is not a bad deal to fill out the roster with another guy who can chip in some points and help on the ice during practice or games educate guys like JvR and Giroux to be better players, it is not that tough to understand for $500,000.

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09-24-2010, 12:19 PM
  #62
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...we should have just kept Mike Knuble.

Guerin is awful!

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Old
09-24-2010, 12:19 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Guerin >>> Carcillo or any other player you can --> insert here-->
Pop Quiz: Who scored more even strength goals last year, Guerin or Carcillo? And once you figure that one out, go look at the ice time each got and who they lined up with (Hint: One of these players played next to Crosby and one did not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Bottom line it is not the greatest of choices or options, but all things considered on the cheap it is not a bad deal to fill out the roster with another guy who can chip in some points and help on the ice during practice or games educate guys like JvR and Giroux to be better players, it is not that tough to understand for $500,000.
No, the bottomline is that your'e advocating bringing in a player that actually hurts this roster rather than helps it because he's "cheap".

And yea, from what I've seen of Guerin over this past year, I don't want me to "educate" any of our young players. I'm curious, just how much of Guerin have you seen in the past year?

Anyway, I'm going to get a root canal. Surprisingly, it's likely to be much more enjoyable than this little debate that shouldn't even be a debate.

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Old
09-24-2010, 12:21 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
That team down the middle made it to the SCF's, just sayin'.
By getting lucky as **** in their matchups, just sayin.

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Old
09-24-2010, 12:22 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
...we should have just kept Mike Knuble.

Guerin is awful!
It all comes back to Randy Jones. I like it.

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Old
09-24-2010, 12:22 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Is Guerin your favorite player or something?

You're completely ignoring the reality. You're expecting him to put up the same points he got on a line with Sidney F***ing Crosby and getting PP time while playing on the third line here? And on a team that expects more skating and a higher tempo on the forecheck?

Open your freaking eyes, dude. He cannot keep up with JVR and Giroux and is constantly turning the puck over. He's not producing at all. Even if he's taking it lightly because it's preseason, he should look better against a bunch of AHL players than he has.


I'm starting to think you either don't know anything about hockey, or just refuse to actually watch. Guerin is not low risk, high reward at all.
I guess we will have to see because if healthy he is going to be on the team. It is game 2 of the preseason, stop with all the talk like it is game 40. Homer has created what he has created, at this point it is a choice of Guerin or Carcillo, Powe, or Nodl. None of who have ever scored more than 13 goals in a season and you are expecting them to keep up with Giroux or JvR or Richards and Carter or Briere....I'll leave Hartnell out of this conversation.......Guerin will give those two a palyer who is willing to get around the net and get dirty while Giroux and JvR can move the puck along the sideboards and the circles.

Guarantee you will see Guerin cash in a more than a few feeds from Giroux from behind the net because he will be on the edge of the goalie crease waiting to put the puck in the net.

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Old
09-24-2010, 12:22 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Guerin >>> Carcillo or any other player you can --> insert here-->

Bottom line it is not the greatest of choices or options, but all things considered on the cheap it is not a bad deal to fill out the roster with another guy who can chip in some points and help on the ice during practice or games educate guys like JvR and Giroux to be better players, it is not that tough to understand for $500,000.
You're not just bringing him in for $500,000.

You're bringing him in and bumping someone off the roster who's actually able to do more on the ice.

I don't think you actually watch Bill Guerin, I think you just replay happy little memories in your head.

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09-24-2010, 12:24 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I guess we will have to see because if healthy he is going to be on the team. It is game 2 of the preseason, stop with all the talk like it is game 40. Homer has created what he has created, at this point it is a choice of Guerin or Carcillo, Powe, or Nodl. None of who have ever scored more than 13 goals in a season and you are expecting them to keep up with Giroux or JvR or Richards and Carter or Briere....I'll leave Hartnell out of this conversation.......Guerin will give those two a palyer who is willing to get around the net and get dirty while Giroux and JvR can move the puck along the sideboards and the circles.

Guarantee you will see Guerin cash in a more than a few feeds from Giroux from behind the net because he will be on the edge of the goalie crease waiting to put the puck in the net.

Guarantee you will see just as many odd-man rushes going in our own net because Guerin turns the puck over and is too slow to get back.

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09-24-2010, 12:25 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
By getting lucky as **** in their matchups, just sayin.
Leading point getting was the smallest guy in the rink. The guy who most claim as the softest was the second best player on the ice each night behind Pronger. So now the cup run was because of matchups? While I agree to a certain extent most people claim that this team was good enough to get there and going in as a #7 seed does not matter.

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09-24-2010, 12:25 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Guarantee you will see just as many odd-man rushes going in our own net because Guerin turns the puck over and is too slow to get back.
That is why Homer has the steel curtain to back him up.

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09-24-2010, 12:29 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
You're not just bringing him in for $500,000.

You're bringing him in and bumping someone off the roster who's actually able to do more on the ice.

I don't think you actually watch Bill Guerin, I think you just replay happy little memories in your head.
Watch Guerin in the preseason? Nope, I watch the younger kids who are the unknowns. If Guerin cannot keep up I am sure Laviolette will lay down the boom, but otherwise I think he will be an OK fit once the season gets going and he gets ona line where he can get acclimated. I am just not willing to say "it will not work" because of two preseason games and a bunch of guys on a forum who "think they know better".

I am sure waiving Walker will not kill this team. And given the choices of who will fill the spot I think that Guerin is a better fit than any other player you can name, so I leave the door open, who do you suggest?

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09-24-2010, 12:29 PM
  #72
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Send him to Siberia and feed him to polar bears!

Well, that's just my humble opinion...

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Old
09-24-2010, 12:31 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
...we should have just kept Mike Knuble.
This I agree with. But hindsight is 20/20.

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Old
09-24-2010, 12:37 PM
  #74
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I have the queasy feeling that there's a Flyers jersey with Guerin's name on it already. Paul Holmgren will use the words "warrior", "proven veteran" and "locker room presence" in justifying why Guerin makes the squad.

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09-24-2010, 12:44 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Watch Guerin in the preseason? Nope, I watch the younger kids who are the unknowns. If Guerin cannot keep up I am sure Laviolette will lay down the boom, but otherwise I think he will be an OK fit once the season gets going and he gets ona line where he can get acclimated. I am just not willing to say "it will not work" because of two preseason games and a bunch of guys on a forum who "think they know better".

I am sure waiving Walker will not kill this team. And given the choices of who will fill the spot I think that Guerin is a better fit than any other player you can name, so I leave the door open, who do you suggest?
If Guerin can't keep up with the slower pace of preseason, how the hell do you expect him to keep up with our real team? It's not just getting acclimated...the guy does not look like he is capable of playing at a high speed, and our whole team runs on a high tempo game. If you don't understand that, I question your overall acuity.


I wish Guerin would work for that 9th forward spot on the third line. I think the classic Bill Guerin would be perfect for that...but he's not that guy anymore.

I'd put just about anyone there at this point over Guerin because at least everyone else on our roster has the footspeed to be in the play at all times when they're with JVR/Giroux. You just need a guy who's capable of banging in rebounds and keeping up on the rush and back-check and maybe be a relay guy in the cycle. Powe/Carcillo/Anyone at least have enough speed to do that...and I hate Carcillo, for the record.

Billy G can maybe get in front of the net and do dirty work there, but he's not the only player who can do that. And otherwise, he's useless.

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