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Preseason Bill Guerin thread.. (Post #405 Guerin Released)

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Old
09-24-2010, 11:46 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Leading point getting was the smallest guy in the rink. The guy who most claim as the softest was the second best player on the ice each night behind Pronger. So now the cup run was because of matchups? While I agree to a certain extent most people claim that this team was good enough to get there and going in as a #7 seed does not matter.
This team, with that goaltending (which we still have), was not good enough to get there. They got there because they got a sequence of absolutely perfect matchups... and we would have lost in the 2nd round (almost surely) if the other teams best forward had not of been hurt.

To take that Cup run and extrapolate it into a "lets try that again!" claim is delusional. If we'd run into either the Caps or Pittsburgh, we would have been toast most likely. When we did run into a legit team, we did get toasted.

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09-24-2010, 11:46 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Wils98 View Post
I've seen this argument a few times that if he signs it will be a 35+ Contract. It is evident that if he signs it will be for a year only, his contract wont be a burden and will not have any effect next year.

Can you stash a 35+ Contract in the minors without takling a hit?
I don't care if his cap hit would only be for a year or fifty years. There's no redeeming factors in signing a 40 year-old forward who clearly has nothing to contribute anymore. I don't see any argument otherwise.

With a 35+ contract, the cap hit stays even if he's in the minors. So there's no way to bury his cap hit. That's why 35+ contracts suck. The most realistic way to get rid of a 35+ contract's cap hit is by trading it away and if you're that desperate to trade an albatross away then no one is going to want to trade for him anyway.

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Not necessarily a problem... I'm not sure what the deal was with Shanny last year, but he didn't count against the Devs cap after he left... may have just been the timing of everything. Though, he did have a contract with the Devs.
You and me have been over this before.

We have a GM who is an absolute retard with the cap. Having little to no cap space in the regular season has bit us in the ass before because of it (remember when we had to waive Metropolit and Ossi?).

Combine that with the fact that Guerin clearly can't contribute anything anymore that any of our other guys can't and there's literally no reason to sign him. None. Why take the risk?

I've said this a hundred times before, but nothing good can come out of this Guerin tryout. Not realistically anyways.

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09-24-2010, 11:47 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
If Guerin can't keep up with the slower pace of preseason, how the hell do you expect him to keep up with our real team? It's not just getting acclimated...the guy does not look like he is capable of playing at a high speed, and our whole team runs on a high tempo game. If you don't understand that, I question your overall acuity.
It's the *ing preaseason... you cannot read that much into it. Jon Sim would be an All-Star if the preseason mattered.

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09-24-2010, 11:49 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
This team, with that goaltending (which we still have), was not good enough to get there. They got there because they got a sequence of absolutely perfect matchups... and we would have lost in the 2nd round (almost surely) if the other teams best forward had not of been hurt.

To take that Cup run and extrapolate it into a "lets try that again!" claim is delusional. If we'd run into either the Caps or Pittsburgh, we would have been toast most likely. When we did run into a legit team, we did get toasted.
Yeah, our offense and defense were Cup caliber, but our goaltending was far below Cup level.

We were extremely fortunate in our Cup run last year. We won't have that kind of fortune again. Which is why I don't see us having a legitimate shot at the Cup this year unless our goaltending situation gets resolved. Which won't happen until Homer's hand is forced, which means that Leighton and Boosh will likely have to implode before Homer has to actually try and fix it.

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09-24-2010, 11:49 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It's the *ing preaseason... you cannot read that much into it. Jon Sim would be an All-Star if the preseason mattered.
I would agree, if the Pens didn't see this same exact Guerin for all of last season.

It's not like this is one pre-season game. Go ask any Pens fan. He's been this ****** for over a season now.

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09-24-2010, 11:50 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
You and me have been over this before.

We have a GM who is an absolute retard with the cap. Having little to no cap space in the regular season has bit us in the ass before because of it (remember when we had to waive Metropolit and Ossi?).

Combine that with the fact that Guerin clearly can't contribute anything anymore that any of our other guys can't and there's literally no reason to sign him. None. Why take the risk?

I've said this a hundred times before, but nothing good can come out of this Guerin tryout. Not realistically anyways.
Look, dude, you don't need to lecture me on Holmgren's stupidity.

But you've also gone Chicken Little on this whole Guerin thing from the word go. As of now, it's a tryout. If he plays his way onto the team, that's going to be Lavi's decision more than Homer's, you'd imagine. If Lavi wants him, then he should have him.

Now, if it's anything more than a cheap as hell 1-year contract... I'll have a problem with it. But, in all seriousness: a cheap, 1-year deal, has almost no negative consequences for this team as it is currently constructed... unless you think we're going to somehow manage to trade for a goalie.

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09-24-2010, 11:52 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I would agree, if the Pens didn't see this same exact Guerin for all of last season.

It's not like this is one pre-season game. Go ask any Pens fan. He's been this ****** for over a season now.
The Pens waived Mark Recchi.

They're a well run team, but they aren't infallible.

Really need to relax on the Guerin front.

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09-24-2010, 11:55 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Look, dude, you don't need to lecture me on Holmgren's stupidity.
Not lecturing, dude. Just making a legitimate argument.

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But you've also gone Chicken Little on this whole Guerin thing from the word go.
If being realistic equates to being a Chicken Little then okay.

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Now, if it's anything more than a cheap as hell 1-year contract... I'll have a problem with it. But, in all seriousness: a cheap, 1-year deal, has almost no negative consequences for this team as it is currently constructed...
His cap hit stays with us and he takes up a roster spot and a contract spot. That's a negative consequence.

Just answer this question for me. "What's the point?" Carcillo is just as good of an option in terms of scoring ability and isn't a 35+ contract. I don't see anything Guerin can bring to the table that our prospects or grinders can't.

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unless you think we're going to somehow manage to trade for a goalie.
Which is entirely possible given how crappy our goaltending is.

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09-24-2010, 11:56 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The Pens waived Mark Recchi.

They're a well run team, but they aren't infallible.

Really need to relax on the Guerin front.
I haven't been a hardcore fan long enough to comment on your Recchi comment.

However, I'm surprised that you're willing to brush off the opinion of nearly the entire Pens fan-base and the Pens management (which is clearly better then ours) by saying "they aren't infallible".

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09-24-2010, 11:56 AM
  #85
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Young kids have looked better than Guerin all preseason. Holmstrom has looked good. Testwuide looked good. He just looks lost out there. Very disappointing.

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09-24-2010, 11:59 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It's the *ing preaseason... you cannot read that much into it. Jon Sim would be an All-Star if the preseason mattered.
Dude, I was pretty stoked when I heard Billy G was coming to tryout. I thought he would be ready to go and prove he still had something left...and I loved the idea of him playing on JVR and Giroux's wing. Watching him has demonstrated, to me, that he isn't going to live up to those hopes at all.


But just because it's preseason and the quality of competition is bad does not excuse him from looking god awful. He's slow, he can't control the puck, his passes aren't very good...no parts of his game look even decent.

I don't expect him to light the world on fire and score goals, but the fact of the matter is that he just looks awful. It's one thing to take the preseason lightly but at least show that you're in shape and ready to go...Guerin is literally displaying NOTHING positive.

People need to accept the fact that he may well have nothing left in the tank and stop saying "well, he's cheap, so who cares?" If he can't play, he can't play and there's no point in signing him.

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09-24-2010, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Dude, I was pretty stoked when I heard Billy G was coming to tryout. I thought he would be ready to go and prove he still had something left...and I loved the idea of him playing on JVR and Giroux's wing. Watching him has demonstrated, to me, that he isn't going to live up to those hopes at all.


But just because it's preseason and the quality of competition is bad does not excuse him from looking god awful. He's slow, he can't control the puck, his passes aren't very good...no parts of his game look even decent.

I don't expect him to light the world on fire and score goals, but the fact of the matter is that he just looks awful. It's one thing to take the preseason lightly but at least show that you're in shape and ready to go...Guerin is literally displaying NOTHING positive.

People need to accept the fact that he may well have nothing left in the tank and stop saying "well, he's cheap, so who cares?" If he can't play, he can't play and there's no point in signing him.
Exactly. That's what I'm trying to say.

I just don't see the point of signing a bad player, especially to a 35+ contract, just because he would come cheap. He provides nothing that our young guys (several of which are clearly ready for the NHL) can't.

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09-24-2010, 12:02 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Not lecturing, dude. Just making a legitimate argument.

If being realistic equates to being a Chicken Little then okay.
You're not being realistic... you're being doom and gloom from the outset.

1) He doesn't have a contract. So, who the **** cares if he's in our camp?

2) If he does get a contract, it will be a 1-year, cheap deal with no long-term impact on our salary cap structure. So, really, not a big deal.

3) Whatever Guerin may bring, he is certainly a veteran presence with playoff and championship experience... which our forwards are sorely lacking in.

The "Guerin is in camp this is *ing awful" mantra... is being Chicken Little... not being realistic.

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His cap hit stays with us and he takes up a roster spot and a contract spot. That's a negative consequence.
Not necessarily, which is why I noted what happened with Shanny and the Devils.

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Just answer this question for me. "What's the point?" Carcillo is just as good of an option in terms of scoring ability and isn't a 35+ contract. I don't see anything Guerin can bring to the table that our prospects or grinders can't
.

Guerin has better offensive skills than Carcillo. Guerin in a wheel chair has better offensive skills than Carcillo.

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Which is entirely possible given how crappy our goaltending is.
Not really, without Guerin we don't have the cap space to really acquire a significant player without giving up cap space as is... and we lack the assets to really make a move. We don't have low coast players that you would want to move of any value (unless you want to move Giroux/JVR)... and lack picks as is.

Trading for an expensive goalie isn't in the cards this year at this point.

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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I haven't been a hardcore fan long enough to comment on your Recchi comment.

However, I'm surprised that you're willing to brush off the opinion of nearly the entire Pens fan-base and the Pens management (which is clearly better then ours) by saying "they aren't infallible".
...They aren't infallible. No one is. To say he didn't play well last year for 'em? Sure... doesn't mean he's done. Players do have down years, you know... independent of being "done."

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09-24-2010, 12:04 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
People need to accept the fact that he may well have nothing left in the tank and stop saying "well, he's cheap, so who cares?" If he can't play, he can't play and there's no point in signing him.
Sure.... They haven't signed him! And, yes, cheap and potentially a contract that can be terminated and removed from the cap (the Devils did this with Shanny a year ago) means it isn't a big deal.

Cheap, 1-year deals... ARE NOT A BIG DEAL.

500K isn't going to make or break our season... especially when our current cap structure looks tighter than it actually is because of the 8 D.

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09-24-2010, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It's the *ing preaseason... you cannot read that much into it. Jon Sim would be an All-Star if the preseason mattered.
I would also like to add a little food for thought. So Guerin is in camp for a "tryout" during the preseason of which he is competing against kids who have contracts and trying to make the team. He is not getting paid for the tryout and no "guarantee" of a contract, does anyone have one inkling that this might play a part into his "uninspired" play? He gets hurt and he will not play in Philly or anywhere else. You can think of this more as a conditioning camp for him, getting up to game speed before the regular season because he is going to be on the roster, so long as he does not get injured.

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09-24-2010, 12:09 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sure.... They haven't signed him! And, yes, cheap and potentially a contract that can be terminated and removed from the cap (the Devils did this with Shanny a year ago) means it isn't a big deal.

Cheap, 1-year deals... ARE NOT A BIG DEAL.

500K isn't going to make or break our season... especially when our current cap structure looks tighter than it actually is because of the 8 D.
I know they haven't signed him.

I'm glad he's here in camp, but now that I've seen him, I hope they don't sign him.

Cheap, 1-year deals aren't a big deal. Cheap, 1-year deals that force a more capable player out of a playing spot or off the roster are, though.

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09-24-2010, 12:14 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
If Guerin can't keep up with the slower pace of preseason, how the hell do you expect him to keep up with our real team? It's not just getting acclimated...the guy does not look like he is capable of playing at a high speed, and our whole team runs on a high tempo game. If you don't understand that, I question your overall acuity.


I wish Guerin would work for that 9th forward spot on the third line. I think the classic Bill Guerin would be perfect for that...but he's not that guy anymore.

I'd put just about anyone there at this point over Guerin because at least everyone else on our roster has the footspeed to be in the play at all times when they're with JVR/Giroux. You just need a guy who's capable of banging in rebounds and keeping up on the rush and back-check and maybe be a relay guy in the cycle. Powe/Carcillo/Anyone at least have enough speed to do that...and I hate Carcillo, for the record.

Billy G can maybe get in front of the net and do dirty work there, but he's not the only player who can do that. And otherwise, he's useless.
Was Asham a "quicker" type of player than Guerin? Because he played most of the season with those two last year. Difference is Guerin has a better ability to finish.

I like Carcillo but he just does not fit unless he supplants Shelley or Laperriere for some spot duty. Powe is not enough of a finsher either, like how he plays but he is a 4th line type of guy.

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09-24-2010, 12:16 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I know they haven't signed him.

I'm glad he's here in camp, but now that I've seen him, I hope they don't sign him.

Cheap, 1-year deals aren't a big deal. Cheap, 1-year deals that force a more capable player out of a playing spot or off the roster are, though.
As of now, it seems unlikely that Guerin would force anyone off the roster immediately. And pushing off the back of your roster isn't really that big of a deal... if you can't overcome losing some of those players, then you have MUCH bigger problems.

If they sign Guerin and it doesn't work out... it doesn't work out. We'll move on. Do I really think there's a big downgrade from a Powe to one of the other forwards that could be in that spot? No, I don't... and I like Powe a lot.

The problem isn't the potential signing of Guerin. The problem is the signing of Shelley. Who is truly useless to a team with Cup aspirations.

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09-24-2010, 12:18 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
This team, with that goaltending (which we still have), was not good enough to get there. They got there because they got a sequence of absolutely perfect matchups... and we would have lost in the 2nd round (almost surely) if the other teams best forward had not of been hurt.

To take that Cup run and extrapolate it into a "lets try that again!" claim is delusional. If we'd run into either the Caps or Pittsburgh, we would have been toast most likely. When we did run into a legit team, we did get toasted.
I am in your camp on this specific issue. I have also attempted to show that just making the playoffs does not cut it, making the SCF's after qualifying as a #7 was an aberration. Stanley Cup winners are made during the season.

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09-24-2010, 12:18 PM
  #95
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You're not being realistic... you're being doom and gloom from the outset.
Whatever. If you want to call having a realistic mindset being a chicken little then that's all you.

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1) He doesn't have a contract. So, who the **** cares if he's in our camp?
I don't care if he's in our camp. I'm just stating what I think to be fact. I don't see any positive result that could come of giving Guerin a tryout. None.

Albeit the fact that Guerin is taking up a preseason spot from some players that do deserve a look at (Maroon or Legein for example).

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2) If he does get a contract, it will be a 1-year, cheap deal with no long-term impact on our salary cap structure. So, really, not a big deal.
So, for the millionth time, what's the point? He doesn't provide anything our other guys can't and he would be a 35+ contract. The latter is just fact.

There's no point at all to signing a bad player even if he comes cheap. None whatsoever.

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3) Whatever Guerin may bring, he is certainly a veteran presence with playoff and championship experience... which our forwards are sorely lacking in.
Locker room presence, along with "veteran experience", is usually an excuse to make positives for a player that really doesn't have anything else to contribute. Matt Walker brings "locker room presence", but that doesn't mean I want him.

Even if I thought "veteran presence" (whatever the hell that means) were important, we already have that. Pronger, Timonen, Briere, Boucher, Shelley, O'Donnell, and Laperriere are all 33 or older and have been in the league for quite a while. Richards, Carter, Hartnell, and Betts aren't exactly new to the league either. Nearly everyone on our team has SCF experience now.

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The "Guerin is in camp this is *ing awful" mantra... is being Chicken Little... not being realistic.
You clearly don't understand what I'm saying to you.

Please point out where I said "Guerin being in camp is ****ing awful". Please, point it out. I'll be waiting.

I'm just being realistic about it and saying that nothing positive can really come out of it.

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Not necessarily, which is why I noted what happened with Shanny and the Devils.
Arguing over the CBA is something I never care to do.

If you don't want to acknowledge that virtually all 35+ contracts are risks and hard(er) to get out of then I don't know what to say anyways.

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Guerin has better offensive skills than Carcillo. Guerin in a wheel chair has better offensive skills than Carcillo.
He does? Guerin played with the best center in the world last year and received top PP time for the whole year yet Carcillo scored more goals at ES. Not to mention the fact that Carcillo spent half of last year on a checking line.

It doesn't have to be Carcillo either. Maroon, Powe, anyone. I don't care. The point is that Guerin is a downgrade at worst and marginal upgrade at the very best. There's no point to it.

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...They aren't infallible. No one is. To say he didn't play well last year for 'em? Sure... doesn't mean he's done. Players do have down years, you know... independent of being "done."
-Every Pens fan acknowledge that Guerin is a crappy player.

-The Pens management (which, again, is clearly better then ours) chose not to re-sign Guerin despite having virtually no good wingers.

-No team wanted him so he now has to resort to a tryout contract.

-Guerin is going to be 40 very soon.

-Guerin has looked like utter **** this whole pre-season as well as all of last year.

If you want to ignore all of the warning signs and all of the obvious facts then that's fine by me. Whatever.

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09-24-2010, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester
As of now, it seems unlikely that Guerin would force anyone off the roster immediately. And pushing off the back of your roster isn't really that big of a deal... if you can't overcome losing some of those players, then you have MUCH bigger problems.

If they sign Guerin and it doesn't work out... it doesn't work out. We'll move on. Do I really think there's a big downgrade from a Powe to one of the other forwards that could be in that spot? No, I don't... and I like Powe a lot.

The problem isn't the potential signing of Guerin. The problem is the signing of Shelley. Who is truly useless to a team with Cup aspirations.
I agree that if you can't afford to push a player off the back end of your roster or possibly lose them, you have issues with your depth/prospects.

However, if Guerin isn't actually going to be an upgrade I just don't friggin' get it. I honestly believe, at this point, that one of the lesser players we have with more speed, even if they don't have Billy's shot, will be more serviceable overall. Unless Guerin starts trying, I don't think he's gonna contribute....I personally don't buy the argument that he's not really trying, though.

I totally agree with Shelley, though. I still hate that signing, that role is antiquated and unnecessary.

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09-24-2010, 12:24 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
His cap hit stays with us and he takes up a roster spot and a contract spot. That's a negative consequence.

Just answer this question for me. "What's the point?" Carcillo is just as good of an option in terms of scoring ability and isn't a 35+ contract. I don't see anything Guerin can bring to the table that our prospects or grinders can't.



Two things. His point is if Guerin makes the team it is because the coach see a redeeming quality in him to be a contributing player on the team but that he also beat out all other players on the roster for that spot, whether you see it or not the coaches do.

Secondly, I like Carcillo, but he does not fit in the top 9 right now as it stands unless he brings something else to the table. He has flashes of being a player but his career year so far is what, 13 goals and 23 pts........this kid is not going to drop everything else and jump to 20 goals and 35pts at the drop of a hat.

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09-24-2010, 12:41 PM
  #98
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Whatever. If you want to call having a realistic mindset being a chicken little then that's all you.
At no point have you been realistic... you're acting like something negative has happened when, in fact, nothing has happened. A hockey player is playing hockey in the Flyers training camp... and may make the team.

That's it.

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I don't care if he's in our camp. I'm just stating what I think to be fact. I don't see any positive result that could come of giving Guerin a tryout. None.

Albeit the fact that Guerin is taking up a preseason spot from some players that do deserve a look at (Maroon or Legein for example).
...There are 5o-whatever players in camp, Guerin isn't impacting their ability to get a look. This is a completely specious argument.

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So, for the millionth time, what's the point? He doesn't provide anything our other guys can't and he would be a 35+ contract. The latter is just fact.

There's no point at all to signing a bad player even if he comes cheap. None whatsoever.
The guys you're talking about... are almost certainly not going to provide a 20 goal season. Guerin could potentially do that.

Quote:
Locker room presence, along with "veteran experience", is usually an excuse to make positives for a player that really doesn't have anything else to contribute. Matt Walker brings "locker room presence", but that doesn't mean I want him.

Even if I thought "veteran presence" (whatever the hell that means) were important, we already have that. Pronger, Timonen, Briere, Boucher, Shelley, O'Donnell, and Laperriere are all 33 or older and have been in the league for quite a while. Richards, Carter, Hartnell, and Betts aren't exactly new to the league either. Nearly everyone on our team has SCF experience now.
Pronger, Timonen, and O'Donnell are defense. Boucher... seriously? Shelley... seriously? Briere, Laperriere, Richards, Carter, Hartnell, and Betts... all lack rings. Now, you may feel that doesn't matter... but that's where intangibles are born. It's like saying Jamie Moyer brings nothing to the table just because he's old.

Matt Walker probably won't even dress on a regular basis.

Intangibles and experience matter... not as much as youth and talent, but we got plenty of the latter.

Quote:
You clearly don't understand what I'm saying to you.

Please point out where I said "Guerin being in camp is ****ing awful". Please, point it out. I'll be waiting.

I'm just being realistic about it and saying that nothing positive can really come out of it.
In the thread discussing that Guerin had been invited to training camp... meaning, before they had ever put on skates, you have 20 posts... the next closest is NWO. Are you telling me that if I go read through those 20 posts I won't find a pretty consistent mantra hating the idea?

You've flipped on him even being invited, before a single preseason game was played, from the start... and you're continuing it.

Seriously... relax.

EDITED ADDITION:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
So I guess we're going with 8 d-men and 14 forwards now? Interesting strategy Homer.

Anyways, I think that this is a fricking horrible idea personally.
First post in the thread announcing his invite... and it's fine, just own it.

I'm also going to quote you from above:

Quote:
I don't care if he's in our camp. I'm just stating what I think to be fact. I don't see any positive result that could come of giving Guerin a tryout. None.

Albeit the fact that Guerin is taking up a preseason spot from some players that do deserve a look at (Maroon or Legein for example).
1) Zero positive result.

2) Taking up space that would be better used by other, younger players.

Seems pretty *ing awful he's around to me.

Quote:
Arguing over the CBA is something I never care to do.

If you don't want to acknowledge that virtually all 35+ contracts are risks and hard(er) to get out of then I don't know what to say anyways.
You are willfully ignoring a precedent, not a year old, of a team terminating the contract of a 35+ player and not paying his cap hit.

If you want to just ignore **** that happened, then I don't know what to say anyways.

Quote:
He does? Guerin played with the best center in the world last year and received top PP time for the whole year yet Carcillo scored more goals at ES. Not to mention the fact that Carcillo spent half of last year on a checking line.

It doesn't have to be Carcillo either. Maroon, Powe, anyone. I don't care. The point is that Guerin is a downgrade at worst and marginal upgrade at the very best. There's no point to it.
In your opinion, fine... doesn't mean you need to be freaking the **** out about him in September.

Quote:
-Every Pens fan acknowledge that Guerin is a crappy player.

-The Pens management (which, again, is clearly better then ours) chose not to re-sign Guerin despite having virtually no good wingers.

-No team wanted him so he now has to resort to a tryout contract.

-Guerin is going to be 40 very soon.

-Guerin has looked like utter **** this whole pre-season as well as all of last year.

If you want to ignore all of the warning signs and all of the obvious facts then that's fine by me. Whatever.
Not one of these points means that Guerin is done. Not one. Think about that.


Last edited by Jester: 09-24-2010 at 12:47 PM.
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09-24-2010, 12:41 PM
  #99
agrudez*
 
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This thread is filling up fast...

I now want Homer to sign Guerin just so you all have your scapegoat ready and can lay off Carle finally while he is putting up 30+ points again this season.

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09-24-2010, 12:48 PM
  #100
Cartsiephan*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Albeit the fact that Guerin is taking up a preseason spot from some players that do deserve a look at (Maroon or Legein for example).

Dude, if Maroon or Legein are making this team they have some big troubles. They are AHL players, the closest guy to a callup would be Nodl and up to this point he has not shown the ability to finish consistently enough. Nice little player but a dime a dozen.


Quote:
So, for the millionth time, what's the point? He doesn't provide anything our other guys can't and he would be a 35+ contract. The latter is just fact.

There's no point at all to signing a bad player even if he comes cheap. None whatsoever.
The guy gives experience and the ability to put points on the board. havign three lines that have the ability to score is how Homer has designed the lineup. My own preference would be to have a guy like Malhotra in the lineup as the 3rd line center and flank him with guys like Carcillo and Hartnell.



Quote:
Locker room presence, along with "veteran experience", is usually an excuse to make positives for a player that really doesn't have anything else to contribute. Matt Walker brings "locker room presence", but that doesn't mean I want him.
Locker room presence can also be considered an on-ice coach to kids like Giroux nad JvR who are still getting their feet wet. Having the ability to coach through the years of experience that a guy like Guerin brings is very valuable to young players just coming in and trying to figure it all out.


Quote:
Even if I thought "veteran presence" (whatever the hell that means) were important, we already have that. Pronger, Timonen, Briere, Boucher, Shelley, O'Donnell, and Laperriere are all 33 or older and have been in the league for quite a while. Richards, Carter, Hartnell, and Betts aren't exactly new to the league either. Nearly everyone on our team has SCF experience now.
O'Donnell, Pronger and Guerin are the only ones to actually have their name on the Cup though.










Quote:
If you don't want to acknowledge that virtually all 35+ contracts are risks and hard(er) to get out of then I don't know what to say anyways.

If you are worried about a $550,000 roster spot to a 35+ contract you are looking way too far into this, expecially if Guerin gives them a better chance to win. Homer is the River Boat Gambler.


Quote:
He does? Guerin played with the best center in the world last year and received top PP time for the whole year yet Carcillo scored more goals at ES. Not to mention the fact that Carcillo spent half of last year on a checking line.
Crosby also worked at being more of a scorer, thus his 50+ goals. Jordan Staal had only 49 points, is he a dud too?

Quote:
It doesn't have to be Carcillo either. Maroon, Powe, anyone. I don't care. The point is that Guerin is a downgrade at worst and marginal upgrade at the very best. There's no point to it.

So you have no other plan, just do not let it be Guerin. Wow, nice problem solving.


Quote:
-Every Pens fan acknowledge that Guerin is a crappy player.
After winning the Cup I bet they did not say that.

Quote:
-The Pens management (which, again, is clearly better then ours) chose not to re-sign Guerin despite having virtually no good wingers.
As stated before, the Pens also let Recchi go, does not mean the player cannot contribute elsewhere, sometimes it is just a change of scenery.

-No team wanted him so he now has to resort to a tryout contract.

Quote:
-Guerin is going to be 40 very soon.
Lidstrom is 40, does that make him a horrible player?


Quote:
-Guerin has looked like utter **** this whole pre-season as well as all of last year.
Poor enough to still be the 5th best scorer on the Pens roster.

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