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Old
09-24-2010, 06:50 PM
  #51
ChipAyten
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Just as how the infrastructure of this nation is funded publicly, I think telecommunications should be as well. It's just as important and shouldn't be left in the hands of just a couple of the greedy minority. This country already has a long unimpressive history of ceding control of public institutions to the private sector (including your money). I'm not one to defend a fortune 100 company like Verizon but Cablevision needs to get heavily fined for this.

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How do they expect local companies to compete with national ones?
You hold Cablevision in the same regard as some mom and pop shop somewhere in Nebraska, Cablevision is the biggest supplier of cable telecom in NYC (Brooklyn) and neighboring counties. Power, they have much of it.

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09-24-2010, 07:04 PM
  #52
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I have Cablevision. I don't know if this applies to anyone because most of you have digital boxes, but in my house we had 5 tv's, only one in my den and one in my living room had digital boxes. The other 3 just went straight from the wall to the back of the TV without box.

Over the months of the last few years, Cablevision slowly cut out the amount of channels you can have without a box, until this month when they require you to have a digital box or you don't get their cable.

My point is: I don't watch TV a lot, but I do enjoy the basic channels like USA, AMC, FX, ESPN, etc. I don't need a box in every single room of my house and don't want to have to pay the extra $ for them. Why can't I just get the basic channels, why the hell do I need a box in every room with a tv?

This has nothing to do with MSGHD, I just thought I'd mention it here because I hate Cablevision so very much and will be switching soon.
So you'll be switching to either Fios or Dish which also require you to have a box on every tv???......

I think Cablevision is doing what anyone else would do while in competition. Good for them. I know if I had a product that the competition didn't have I wouldn't let my competition have it either. It's like "Here ya go Fios, take msg hd and news12 along with a couple hundred thousand customers and good luck with your company...if you need anything else just ask" Makes no sense. If you want MSG HD bad enough switch. I'm a HUGE Ranger fan so I would get whoever had what I wanted. People are still stuck in the 50's, where they think TV should be given to them for free. Just my 2cents.

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09-24-2010, 07:16 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
Just as how the infrastructure of this nation is funded publicly, I think telecommunications should be as well. It's just as important and shouldn't be left in the hands of just a couple of the greedy minority. This country already has a long unimpressive history of ceding control of public institutions to the private sector (including your money). I'm not one to defend a fortune 100 company like Verizon but Cablevision needs to get heavily fined for this.



You hold Cablevision in the same regard as some mom and pop shop somewhere in Nebraska, Cablevision is the biggest supplier of cable telecom in NYC (Brooklyn) and neighboring counties. Power, they have much of it.
Of course I don't view them as some small Nebraska country store, but verizon has over 200,000 employees and provides service throughout the country. Cablevision has 3 million customers, 99% of which are in brooklyn, queens, nassau and suffolk. Surely they are the little guy in this scenario.

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09-24-2010, 07:19 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
This thread should be sticky'd! Just so I can find comfort in being reminded that others are suffering with me!


Of all the posters on this board you've have to imagine there'd be someone who works for FiOS who could perhaps shed some more light on this issue (or at least ask around at the company to find someone who could share something relevant)
Sorry but most of the drones that work for Fios can't even turn on a computer. Fios is a disaster and they've proven that because they stopped building on LI because they couldn't penetrate Cablevision's market enough. They lose millions a month with Fios in NY. The only thing keeping them going is their wireless(which is getting worse by the day) and their other Fios markets. The people working for them have no clue about TV and Internet and how it works.

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09-24-2010, 07:58 PM
  #55
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The NFL is a producer of content not a provider. You get access to your local teams games on the networks and that's all we're owed from them I guess. You're paying for out of market games with Sunday Ticket. Cablevision is witholding local content to a degree, which is the no-no here. Cablevision is a producer/provider and that's where it gets muddy. Having had both, I'd take Verizon in a heartbeat. I'm currently with Cablevision strictly for the MSGHD. I've had customer service and installer issues with both. With both I've had to be home for installation because the installers couldn't wire the phones properly. Fortunately as an electrician I was able to finish the install myself. That should not happen with either. I just see Verizon as the lesser of two evils and their evil provides a better image.

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09-24-2010, 10:21 PM
  #56
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Cablevision and MSG are 2 different companies now. And even if they weren't, good for them for having something that the competition doesn't have. If I open up a pizza place does that mean that if I wanted the secret sauce that the pizza place across the street uses that they should give it to me???? Or if I open up a fries chicken place does Colonel Sanders have to give me his recipe for his 13 secret spices so it's fair market competition???? Come on people think logically for a minute and look at the situation from all angles.

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09-24-2010, 11:23 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggs98 View Post
Cablevision and MSG are 2 different companies now. And even if they weren't, good for them for having something that the competition doesn't have. If I open up a pizza place does that mean that if I wanted the secret sauce that the pizza place across the street uses that they should give it to me???? Or if I open up a fries chicken place does Colonel Sanders have to give me his recipe for his 13 secret spices so it's fair market competition???? Come on people think logically for a minute and look at the situation from all angles.
When Cablevision starts offering pizza or fried chicken as part of their basic programming they will have to share their recipes. Until then, just MSGHD please.

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09-27-2010, 11:27 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post

On the second point I disagree though, cablevision offers MSG to anyone who wants to pay for it. Both Verizon and Direct TV carry MSG. What they don't have is MSGHD, which is not different content than MSG, its different quality. Believe me it makes a big difference.
Saying Cablevision offers MSG but not in HD is a non-statement. This entire discussion is about MSG HD. And as many have stated, it's very important to them.

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Also, you are correct, the NFL put NFL Sunday Ticket out to bid and Direct TV won. What you didn't mention was that Direct TV is a national company and cablevision is a local provider. How can you expect a local company with 3 million subscribers to outbid a national provider with 18.5 Million customers?
That's Cablevision's problem, not the NFL's or DirecTV's problem.

Cable operators have addressed that by creating In Demand, where they carry the NHL Center Ice and NBA League Pass packages. Apparently that did not work for NFL Sunday Ticket

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You never answered why the NFL can sell their product as they choose, but MSG cannot do the same?
I did answer it, you just did not like my answer. The NFL put NFL Sunday Ticket up for bidding to everyone. Cablevision is not allowing everyone the chance to carry MSG HD.

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09-27-2010, 01:28 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Saying Cablevision offers MSG but not in HD is a non-statement. This entire discussion is about MSG HD. And as many have stated, it's very important to them.
Why should cablevision care whats important to Verizon subscribers? To dismiss the fact that they sell MSG to anyone who wants it, but skewer them for not providing it in the quality that the other companies customers desire is just wrong. No one that orders Fios is missing Rangers games, its that simple, they are just missing them in HD. While that may make Verizon customers sad, thats not cablevisions problem. The ball remains in Verizons court to prove some type of disadvantage because of it.


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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
That's Cablevision's problem, not the NFL's or DirecTV's problem.

Cable operators have addressed that by creating In Demand, where they carry the NHL Center Ice and NBA League Pass packages. Apparently that did not work for NFL Sunday Ticket
You say its Cablevisions problem and I agree, but my retort is Verizon and others took their problems to the FCC and got a ruling, and thats all I'm saying Cablevison will do if forces to not only share its content but also its quality.
You see the FCC ruling is suppose to support fair competition, yet you seem to care nothing about fair competition when its a small company trying to compete with a large one (like my example of cablevision not being able to outbid a national company) You cant have it both ways. If I want NFL Sunday ticket I HAVE TO HAVE DIRECT TV, there is no competition I can turn too to get it. If you want MSG in HD go to the company that has it, Cablevision.

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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
I did answer it, you just did not like my answer. The NFL put NFL Sunday Ticket up for bidding to everyone. Cablevision is not allowing everyone the chance to carry MSG HD.
Thats like saying- ok Jersey Girl, you and Bill Gates are going to bid on Rangers season tickets this year, thats fair right?
And again, no one is missing games, they are missing quality.


Apparently we just have huge philosophical differences on this issue, and I respect your opinion on all these matters. I just have a very different opinion, and the FCC and law are very wishy washy on their enforcement and reasoning of the rules.
I'm sure we could agree that if the rules were clear and concise this would have been resolved years ago.

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09-27-2010, 02:17 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
Why should cablevision care whats important to Verizon subscribers? To dismiss the fact that they sell MSG to anyone who wants it, but skewer them for not providing it in the quality that the other companies customers desire is just wrong. No one that orders Fios is missing Rangers games, its that simple, they are just missing them in HD. While that may make Verizon customers sad, thats not cablevisions problem. The ball remains in Verizons court to prove some type of disadvantage because of it.
This part of the discussion has gone full circle now. We're talking semantics. Instead of going round and round it's time to move on now. I do not agree with your above statement, and you obviously won't agree with mine. Let's leave it at that.


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You say its Cablevisions problem and I agree, but my retort is Verizon and others took their problems to the FCC and got a ruling, and thats all I'm saying Cablevison will do if forces to not only share its content but also its quality.
You see the FCC ruling is suppose to support fair competition, yet you seem to care nothing about fair competition when its a small company trying to compete with a large one (like my example of cablevision not being able to outbid a national company) You cant have it both ways. If I want NFL Sunday ticket I HAVE TO HAVE DIRECT TV, there is no competition I can turn too to get it. If you want MSG in HD go to the company that has it, Cablevision.
What FCC ruling are we talking about? I truly don't know, I don't follow this stuff closely.

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Apparently we just have huge philosophical differences on this issue, and I respect your opinion on all these matters. I just have a very different opinion, and the FCC and law are very wishy washy on their enforcement and reasoning of the rules.
I'm sure we could agree that if the rules were clear and concise this would have been resolved years ago.
The rules should clearly state that people who own networks cannot also own the vehicle that supplies the network...that would eliminate the conflicts of interest. And a company like Cablevision would not have something they can hold over the heads of Verizon, etc. It's not like DirecTV has their own networks which they withhold from Cablevision (or supply only the SD feed and withhold the HD feed), but that may be coming.

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09-27-2010, 02:35 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
This part of the discussion has gone full circle now. We're talking semantics. Instead of going round and round it's time to move on now. I do not agree with your above statement, and you obviously won't agree with mine. Let's leave it at that.
Agreed



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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
What FCC ruling are we talking about? I truly don't know, I don't follow this stuff closely.
The FCC for years, (in order to allow terrestrial providers like cablevision to compete with satellite companies that werent constrained by local cable networks), allowed them to own and keep local sports and other original content for themselves as a defense against the the additional programming satellite could provide based on its benefits. The FCC ruling has closed this loophole, but according to the judgement, only if the party claiming injury can prove it.
The reason I side with cable is because the loophole was put in place to protect the cables companies investment in local infrastructure and lines, etc.. why that is no longer valid they made no statement on. For me, it relates to my job, i understand if its incredibly boring, i just added the link incase your only other option is having your nails pulled out with pliers

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-10438235-266.html

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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
The rules should clearly state that people who own networks cannot also own the vehicle that supplies the network...that would eliminate the conflicts of interest. And a company like Cablevision would not have something they can hold over the heads of Verizon, etc. It's not like DirecTV has their own networks which they withhold from Cablevision (or supply only the SD feed and withhold the HD feed), but that may be coming.
Agreed

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09-27-2010, 04:34 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
I have Cablevision. I don't know if this applies to anyone because most of you have digital boxes, but in my house we had 5 tv's, only one in my den and one in my living room had digital boxes. The other 3 just went straight from the wall to the back of the TV without box.

Over the months of the last few years, Cablevision slowly cut out the amount of channels you can have without a box, until this month when they require you to have a digital box or you don't get their cable.

My point is: I don't watch TV a lot, but I do enjoy the basic channels like USA, AMC, FX, ESPN, etc. I don't need a box in every single room of my house and don't want to have to pay the extra $ for them. Why can't I just get the basic channels, why the hell do I need a box in every room with a tv?

This has nothing to do with MSGHD, I just thought I'd mention it here because I hate Cablevision so very much and will be switching soon.
Because they can squeeze more channels into the same frequency band if they digitize and compress. But then you need to decode the digital signal. Many recent TVs have a QAM tuner that will let you watch unencrypted digital cable (which is generally the basic cable channels). Unfortunately one of the nice things a digital cable box will do for you is map all of the digital channels to meaningful numbers. When I had Comcast my local NBC station was something like channel 118-110. I had to enter 6 numbers and a dash to watch NBC. Sometimes they moved channels, which means I'd have to re-scan for channels and then find everything again. It was a real pain, but I didn't need a box.

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09-27-2010, 04:44 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by biggs98 View Post
So you'll be switching to either Fios or Dish which also require you to have a box on every tv???......

I think Cablevision is doing what anyone else would do while in competition. Good for them. I know if I had a product that the competition didn't have I wouldn't let my competition have it either. It's like "Here ya go Fios, take msg hd and news12 along with a couple hundred thousand customers and good luck with your company...if you need anything else just ask" Makes no sense. If you want MSG HD bad enough switch. I'm a HUGE Ranger fan so I would get whoever had what I wanted. People are still stuck in the 50's, where they think TV should be given to them for free. Just my 2cents.
This isn't competition, this is anti-competitive. You think it's fine now, but would it still be fine if you had to have Comcast to get any of NBC-Universal's content (and Versus and the other crap Comcast already owns) in HD? Or if Disney bought Time Warner and you could only get ESPN in HD if you have TWC? How awesome would that be?

It's bad for consumers when content producers use their exclusive content in an anti-competitive way. That's what happens when the content producer and the content provider are owned by the same people. You say you would just go with whatever provider can give you the Rangers, but you shouldn't HAVE to choose based on the Rangers.

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09-27-2010, 04:57 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mugs View Post
This isn't competition, this is anti-competitive. You think it's fine now, but would it still be fine if you had to have Comcast to get any of NBC-Universal's content (and Versus and the other crap Comcast already owns) in HD? Or if Disney bought Time Warner and you could only get ESPN in HD if you have TWC? How awesome would that be?

It's bad for consumers when content producers use their exclusive content in an anti-competitive way. That's what happens when the content producer and the content provider are owned by the same people. You say you would just go with whatever provider can give you the Rangers, but you shouldn't HAVE to choose based on the Rangers.
All I'm going to say is you do not have to choose Cablevision to watch MSG, only MSGHD, you are not forced to miss any games.

I just want to hear one person who keeps calling this anti-competition explain to me how local cable companies can compete with national corporations if they cant have exclusive content?

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09-27-2010, 05:03 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
All I'm going to say is you do not have to choose Cablevision to watch MSG, only MSGHD, you are not forced to miss any games.

I just want to hear one person who keeps calling this anti-competition explain to me how local cable companies can compete with national corporations if they cant have exclusive content?
Offer better service? Offer cheaper rates? Keep giving away iPods? Right now, Cablevision's picture is nowhere near FiOS's picture. Their customer service sucks. Upgrade both of those and people will flock back.

A lot of people left Cablevision due to the customer service. We did when we switched to DirecTV ages ago. We left DirecTV because FiOS had better TV picture and the internet was a huge step up from the old Verizon DSL we had.

Cablevision will improve their market share by offering a better product. You cannot restrict a channel to your own subscribers as it is 100% anti-competition.

If Cablevision had the picture quality and internet speed of FiOS, do you think anyone would have left? I certainly don't.

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09-27-2010, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
All I'm going to say is you do not have to choose Cablevision to watch MSG, only MSGHD, you are not forced to miss any games.

I just want to hear one person who keeps calling this anti-competition explain to me how local cable companies can compete with national corporations if they cant have exclusive content?
"Local cable companies?" This isn't Mayberry Cable, this is Cablevision. One of the largest cable companies in the country.

Cablevision offers phone service, right? Would it be alright if Verizon charged unreasonably high fees for Cablevision customers to call anyone on Verizon's local and wireless phone networks? No. That's anti-competitive and the government wouldn't allow it.

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09-27-2010, 05:34 PM
  #67
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honestly i hate dolan, i hate cable, newsday sucks


it hurts me that this team is owned by them....ive been raised loving the rangers but boy do i wish they were sold....it truly hurts me that dolan is such a fat greedy *****

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09-27-2010, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Offer better service? Offer cheaper rates? Keep giving away iPods? Right now, Cablevision's picture is nowhere near FiOS's picture. Their customer service sucks. Upgrade both of those and people will flock back.

A lot of people left Cablevision due to the customer service. We did when we switched to DirecTV ages ago. We left DirecTV because FiOS had better TV picture and the internet was a huge step up from the old Verizon DSL we had.

Cablevision will improve their market share by offering a better product. You cannot restrict a channel to your own subscribers as it is 100% anti-competition.

If Cablevision had the picture quality and internet speed of FiOS, do you think anyone would have left? I certainly don't.
Thats all fine and good, I definately see you point, but my argument is more customers equal more revenue. How can cablevision spend on advertising, research and development, infrastructure, etc.. what a company that sells nationwide can? They cant, and thats whats destroying this country, its the same reason the mom and pop can compete with walmart. one thing a mom and pop can do to compete with walmart though is sell exclusive items, this for some reason is no longer allowed in cable tv though.

According to your theory, pretty soon the only player left will be verizon, they have the best product, the most cash, they can sell their product at a loss to starve out the competition, produce more ads with more lies (cable and verizon both do enough of that admittedly) and plan on jacking up the rates once they dominate the market... and then where does the competition come from?

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09-27-2010, 05:41 PM
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I don't know why Cablevision is being painted as this small entity.... A companies worth/value is relative to it's operating expenses... Just because Verizon is national does not mean it has this big edge on Cablevision when it comes to operating in the tri-state area... CV sounds like it does very well given the region in which it operates... You can dominate a specific market even if you're not operating nationally...

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09-27-2010, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
Thats all fine and good, I definately see you point, but my argument is more customers equal more revenue. How can cablevision spend on advertising, research and development, infrastructure, etc.. what a company that sells nationwide can? They cant, and thats whats destroying this country, its the same reason the mom and pop can compete with walmart. one thing a mom and pop can do to compete with walmart though is sell exclusive items, this for some reason is no longer allowed in cable tv though.

According to your theory, pretty soon the only player left will be verizon, they have the best product, the most cash, they can sell their product at a loss to starve out the competition, produce more ads with more lies (cable and verizon both do enough of that admittedly) and plan on jacking up the rates once they dominate the market... and then where does the competition come from?
The competition comes from companies like Cablevision upping the quality. They haven't done that in ages. They offer an inferior product and will lose if they do not upgrade it. This is the same thing involved with cars. If you're competitor is offering a better car at a cheaper price, you upgrade your car and find a way to make it cheaper. End of story.

You act like Cablevision is a small company. Such absolute ********. You sure you don't work for them?

The cable companies can all get together and invest in research with each other if they wanted to. Pool your assets. Most cable markets have only one option anyway, so there isn't exactly much competition between them (which shows how hypocritical the competition argument you have is). I'm all for letting them collude and pool their assets together so they can bring a better product.

Don't sit there and cry, "Poor cable companies!" They have many options at their fingertips. Cablevision only has this area to operate in. You act as if that's a terrible thing. They have a fraction of the operating costs that Verizon has due to this!!!

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I don't know why Cablevision is being painted as this small entity.... A companies worth/value is relative to it's operating expenses... Just because Verizon is national does not mean got this big edge of Cablevision when it comes to the tri-state area... CV sounds like it does pretty well given the region in which it operates...
Exactly. Verizon has HUGE operating expenses being a nationwide company. Theoretically, their gross profit will be more but the net profit will be a **** ton less than the gross due to all of the operating costs they suffer across the country. Cablevison only has a small part of the country to operate in. Much less costs.

Verizon needs to not only operate nationwide but advertise nationwide.

Such a joke that people actually try and portray Cablevision as the victim.

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09-27-2010, 05:47 PM
  #71
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For the record, the ONLY way to look at this is the cable companies as a WHOLE against Verizon and DirecTV. Not just one cable entity.

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09-27-2010, 05:56 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mugs View Post
"Local cable companies?" This isn't Mayberry Cable, this is Cablevision. One of the largest cable companies in the country.

Cablevision offers phone service, right? Would it be alright if Verizon charged unreasonably high fees for Cablevision customers to call anyone on Verizon's local and wireless phone networks? No. That's anti-competitive and the government wouldn't allow it.
Come on now, I know what your saying, but your skewing my words. The fact of the matter is Cablevision has a pool of possible customers that is only so big, they cant offer cable in all 50 states. Verizon and Direct TV and the likes can. No ones calling it Mayberry cable, but when Cablevision has 3.5 million subscribers and direct tv has 18+ million subscribers your talking about a big difference in revenue streams and market penetration.

Your phone example a totally diffrent animal though. Tax dollars bore a gigantic portion of the expense to wire this country for telephone service. Phone companies said okay to that so they wouldnt have to bear the expense, but they had to agree to play by the rules established for that right to use those lines. now years later phone service is taken for granted, but that industry was subsidized by the government for years.
Similar things went on in the television and cable sector, but the cable companies bore the investment. That is exactly why the terrestrial loophole was put in place. To protect these companies and their investment in local infrastructure. Read the details of the terrestrial loophole, and then explain to why when it was put in place it was to allow for fair competition, but now its not fair.

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09-27-2010, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I don't know why Cablevision is being painted as this small entity.... A companies worth/value is relative to it's operating expenses... Just because Verizon is national does not mean it has this big edge on Cablevision when it comes to operating in the tri-state area... CV sounds like it does very well given the region in which it operates... You can dominate a specific market even if you're not operating nationally...
I'm going to answer you and Jonathan together in this one to save time.

1st, I do not work for Cablevision just to clear that up, I never have. I work for a University with no ties to Cablevision.

There is really no point in discussing it any further, I see now that people are arguing based on their opinions of the companies and they have nothing to do with the Law, Fair Competition or Regulation Rules.
I could give a crap less about cablevision as a company, you guys dont like cablevision so you are you points with verizon is better, and the like.
The truth is Cablevision has barely even batted an eye at verizon. Verizon has barely made a dent in their viewership. Their users claim better speed, better picture, better everything, but the fact is Cablevision must be doing something right or everyone would have switched by now (and dont give me MSGHD is keeping everyone from switching, its hockey and basketball guys).
If you don't see this as a local company (which it is) going up against a national one (which they are) I just can't even imagine where I'd need to start.

I respect you both too much to have it turn into a fight about two companies that i have no love for, i just think one is the lesser of two evils...

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09-27-2010, 07:01 PM
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Actually I'm not partial to either company... I was a Cablevision subscriber for the last 3 years but my roommate who owns the house that I rent a room in, switched us to Verizon in July (against my wishes due to the MSG HD business )... I think Verizon has better standard definition picture quality.... I never had any gripes about the HD picture quality with CV, thought it was good... However, I would get channel blackouts with Cablevision and that was frustrating (not talking specific broadcast blackouts, but channels not working intermittently with just a black screen and no picture)... I think both companies have crappy Customer Service & Support (dealt with Verizon with other services before). Neither are very affordable after their temporary promotional price cuts...

The comment I made above was not because I'm partial to Verizon but because I get the impression that CV does pretty well in this area and that can equate to big profits when you have less operating expenses than a national provider... Seems like they have a good hold on the marketplace... I don't have any #'s to back that up but that was just the impression I got... Verizon is the new player (relatively) in the game and I think there's a big segment of households that don't switch simply because they stick with what they've had and have had over the years.... Their complacency benefits CV greatly....


Last edited by wolfgaze: 09-27-2010 at 07:07 PM.
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09-27-2010, 07:20 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Actually I'm not partial to either company... I was a Cablevision subscriber for the last 3 years but my roommate who owns the house that I rent a room in, switched us to Verizon in July (against my wishes due to the MSG HD business )... I think Verizon has better standard definition picture quality.... I never had any gripes about the HD picture quality with CV, thought it was good... However, I would get channel blackouts with Cablevision and that was frustrating (not talking specific broadcast blackouts, but channels not working intermittently with just a black screen and no picture)... I think both companies have crappy Customer Service & Support (dealt with Verizon with other services before). Neither are very affordable after their temporary promotional price cuts...

The comment I made above was not because I'm partial to Verizon but because I get the impression that CV does pretty well in this area and that can equate to big profits when you have less operating expenses than a national provider... Seems like they have a good hold on the marketplace... I don't have any #'s to back that up but that was just the impression I got... Verizon is the new player (relatively) in the game and I think there's a big segment of households that don't switch simply because they stick with what they've had and have had over the years.... Their complacency benefits CV greatly....
I think your absolutely right about complacency keeping customers with cablevision, because I would say I'm probably one of them, lol. Its not the only reason I havent switched of course, but as i mentioned a few posts back, I had verizon in the place I was renting before I bought my house. I can honestly say I never onced noticed a difference between the two. Picture quality looked the same to me, Internet felt the same to me, i dont get the war over service.
Call me stupid, call me old school (im only 35!!!), call me whatever, but my family always had cablevision, everyone was always happy, I have cablevision now and I'm happy (when I was renting and had verizon I was happy too). But cablevision to me will always be the local company and if some big national company want to come in they better blow me away, and honestly, nothing about my experience with verizon on any level has ever blown me away. Does cablevision rock my world? nah, they got some cool features though like the free wifi, newsday.com access, free software for the computer and stuff, but to me its more about being a long island based company that I like to see succeeding.

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