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Trade Dubinsky....... Now.

View Poll Results: Trade Dubinsky?
Keep Dubinsky. He's a valuable part of our future 105 43.75%
Trade Him. It won't hurt our club and we can get something good in return. 23 9.58%
On the side of keeping him, but would not object to a trade if for the right return. 112 46.67%
Voters: 240. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-27-2010, 10:09 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
That's fine, that's your preference. I would rather take a Richards-type player who can HELP get Gaborik a 100 point season, and not have a Dubinsky-type player who will mainly have to have Gaborik create for himself and have him finish with 80 points. I'll say it again:

Good players not only create their own chances, but also create chances for their linemates, Dubinsky does the former, however he lacks quite a bit in the latter.

This is a matter of preferences, you perfer the grinding forchecker, however I don't find those qualities as important in a 2nd line player as I do in a 3rd line player. I would personally rather give up forchecking and those intangabiles to have someone who could make the people around him better.
You can just completely block out my bobby ryan 60 point season vs nik zherdev 60 point season . If you are saying you'd take a 60 point season out of zherdev rather than a 60 point season of a bobby ryan type player you've lost your mind. And you think that if Gaborik has 100 points Brad richards would only have 60 .

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Old
09-27-2010, 10:16 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by rangersfan4390 View Post
You can just completely block out my bobby ryan 60 point season vs nik zherdev 60 point season . If you are saying you'd take a 60 point season out of zherdev rather than a 60 point season of a bobby ryan type player you've lost your mind. And you think that if Gaborik has 100 points Brad richards would only have 60 .
I would take Ryan over Zherdev only because even though he can do only 1 thing he is FAR AND ABOVE better than Zherdev. He is actually so much better that he commands more attention on the ice giving his teamates more space to create their own plays--all stuff that Dubinsky is and cannot do. I never said Gaborik would have 100 points and Richards would only have 60, again redaing comprehension is your friend. I said that Richards could HELP turn Gaborik into a 100 point player, Richards would have an incredible year next to Gaborik and Frolov.

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09-27-2010, 10:22 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
I would take Ryan over Zherdev only because even though he can do only 1 thing he is FAR AND ABOVE better than Zherdev. He is actually so much better that he commands more attention on the ice giving his teamates more space to create their own plays--all stuff that Dubinsky is and cannot do. I never said Gaborik would have 100 points and Richards would only have 60, again redaing comprehension is your friend. I said that Richards could HELP turn Gaborik into a 100 point player, Richards would have an incredible year next to Gaborik and Frolov.
No reading comprehension is your friend. I said I'd take a dubi type player at 60 over a brad richards type player at 60. and you proceeded to say you'd take the richards in that situation because he'd help gabby get 100 points

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09-27-2010, 10:26 PM
  #104
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It's interesting that this hypothetical argument about 60 point players has sprung up in this thread. Because it goes exactly to the reason I would be in favor of trading him now.

In my opinion, when we look back on Dubi's career I think we'll see that he averaged around 50 or so points per game in his prime, not 60. And certainly not more than 60. Maybe in his best 1 or 2 years he'll get to 57-60.

But I think there are people around the league who look at Brandon and think he's a budding Ryan Kesler. So, if you can trade Dubi to someone who thinks that highly of him, you do it because you're getting the value of a potential 75 point player for a guy who will really only average around 53.

I like players that come up through the system, who play a complete game, etc. too. I just like talent more. (And if we wind up keeping him, I sincerely hope I'm wrong about his talent.)

He's 24. In his first year, he scored 40. In his second, he had a bit of a sophomore slump away from Jagr. Still scored 40. Last year, pro-rated to a full 82 games, he scored around 50. In a new position that is better suited to his skills and with the progression that comes along with a young player developing, he could certainly average 60-65 from ages 27-30, if not as soon as this season. We're not talking about an established veteran making a sudden jump, that would be illogical. We're talking about a young player scoring ten points more as they hit their prime. Sure, he could stabilize at 50 points, at which point he'd still be a valuable second line player. I just don't think it's smart to assume that he's done progressing when it comes to his trade value. Your entire post talks like he's already past his prime. He hasn't even begun it yet.

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09-27-2010, 10:28 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
It's interesting that this hypothetical argument about 60 point players has sprung up in this thread. Because it goes exactly to the reason I would be in favor of trading him now.

In my opinion, when we look back on Dubi's career I think we'll see that he averaged around 50 or so points per game in his prime, not 60. And certainly not more than 60. Maybe in his best 1 or 2 years he'll get to 57-60.

But I think there are people around the league who look at Brandon and think he's a budding Ryan Kesler. So, if you can trade Dubi to someone who thinks that highly of him, you do it because you're getting the value of a potential 75 point player for a guy who will really only average around 53.

I like players that come up through the system, who play a complete game, etc. too. I just like talent more. (And if we wind up keeping him, I sincerely hope I'm wrong about his talent.)
It's funny you bring up Kesler because Dubinsky has outscored him through their first four seasons. Kesler: 5, 23, 16 (short season), 37. Duber: 0, 40, 41, 44. Dubi is also two years younger than RK.

There is no reason to think that Dubinsky won't become a 60 point player.

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Old
09-27-2010, 11:35 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Gift of Gaborik View Post
He's 24. In his first year, he scored 40. In his second, he had a bit of a sophomore slump away from Jagr. Still scored 40. Last year, pro-rated to a full 82 games, he scored around 50. In a new position that is better suited to his skills and with the progression that comes along with a young player developing, he could certainly average 60-65 from ages 27-30, if not as soon as this season. We're not talking about an established veteran making a sudden jump, that would be illogical. We're talking about a young player scoring ten points more as they hit their prime. Sure, he could stabilize at 50 points, at which point he'd still be a valuable second line player. I just don't think it's smart to assume that he's done progressing when it comes to his trade value. Your entire post talks like he's already past his prime. He hasn't even begun it yet.
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
It's funny you bring up Kesler because Dubinsky has outscored him through their first four seasons. Kesler: 5, 23, 16 (short season), 37. Duber: 0, 40, 41, 44. Dubi is also two years younger than RK.

There is no reason to think that Dubinsky won't become a 60 point player.
Absolutely could be true. If they do wind up holding onto him, i hope you guys are right. But I personally don't see it - not like I see offensive upside in Anisimov, for example. I just don't think he has the native creative flair required to be at that next level of scoring. Which is precisely why I'm in favor of moving him. If you disagree, well then I understand why you want to keep him. Classic agree to disagree, I guess.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 09-28-2010 at 08:45 AM.
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Old
09-28-2010, 12:03 AM
  #107
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It's not a bad thing. But there are two different types of 60 point players- There are the Grinding 60 point players who are like above average 3rd liners and then there are 60 POINT PLAYERS. What I mean by that is a player who is capable of making all the players on his line better, and I don't see that Dubinsky. He grinds out and gets garbage goals, while that is all well and good, he isn't the type of player that I think could make everyone else around him a better player. He isn't really the secondary scoring I want on this team personally.

That's a load of croc and you know it. Dubinsky potted 20 last year and I counted 10 goals where he either tied the game or put Rangers in front. He scored only 1 empty netter and that's the only garbage goal he scored all year. I challenge you to find another 'garbage goal' he scored last year.

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09-28-2010, 12:16 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Then the issue is with your definition of mediocre. You're pegging him as the "go to guy" which is a reflection on our lack of depth, not of Dubinsky's value to the organization. A "hopeful(ly)" 20 goal scorer is more than a little absurd considering he'll be entering his 4th season in the NHL. It's not as if he came flying out of the gate his rookie year and has yet to match the production he gave us. He's improved in all facets of the game with each season thus far.



That's all well and good, but 'gut feeling' and 'future' are not a viable counter-point to 'fact' -- which I presented in my previous post. (And you, for whatever reason, cut it out of your response)

I can understand people having reservations about the development of our players, but Dubinsky has shown no indication that he has peaked. Last season was an improvement over the previous year, and just because he's off to a slow start in the preseason, many feel the need to hit the 'Sell! Sell! Sell!' button. If we can upgrade our roster at the expense of Dubinsky, and the minimal addition of assets, that's a good play. However, getting rid of him because people are afraid he may sputter out, is just downright silly.
You're a Dubinsky fan... I get it...

There's nothing absurd at all about calling him a hopefully 20 goal scorer. That's what you hope you'll get with him. There's also nothing wrong with calling him mediocre. At this point he's a mediocre 2nd liner when compared to other 2nd liners. And how can you call him such a value to our organization when in the same breath you say he's the 2nd line goto guy because of lack of depth? So you're saying he isn't talented enough to be a 2nd liner goto guy but is there cause there's no one better. Wow. What a value he must bring under that definition.

And all this stuff about him improving all facets of his game is a bit ridiculous. He improved what, for 10 games?

You have as little fact to your argument as I do. You have a right to your opinion but deriding mine as if it's based in lunacy is just nothing more than bias on your part. The only fact is that Dubinsky is largely an 'unknown' at this point. Will he develop further? Sink into oblivion? Just remain mediocre but still contribute? Who the heck knows. My point is I'm not sure I have such faith in the former any more, at least to the degree of putting at risk the return we could get for him now (packaged with others) as opposed to when the cat's out of the bag; if it should go that way.

He has mood swings and he lets them affect his game. He brings little to those that play around him, he misses the net a ton, and on any given game night you have no idea what to expect from him. He may very well prove to be hugely valuable in the coming years. But like I said, it's nothing more than a gut feeling. And my gut's telling me what we see is what we get, and that if we use him in a trade deal now we'll make out better than if later. So the question was thrown out there. But relax. You're a dubi fan. I get it. You don't like negativity thrown at him. Ok, you're entitled. But so am I.

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09-28-2010, 01:13 AM
  #109
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Knowing that Dubinsky reads these boards, this thread should motivate him.

Light 'em up dude.

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09-28-2010, 01:29 AM
  #110
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would need a great return for him...

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09-28-2010, 01:45 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
We are trading for someone (let's assume Richards), who not only reaches and eclipses the point total of Dubinsky, but incredibly makes his linemates better with his playmaking skills (simply astonishing!!!! A hockey player who can not only put the puck in the net, but has the dimension of making other people better.
We'll be over the cap with a Dubinsky/Richards trade, so this scenario isn't even worth exploring.

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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
While it's true the person coming back will cost more money, but wait till you see what Dubinsky will command when he becomes a free agent, you'll be asking to trade him to.
Head your head out of your ass. Richards has a 7.8M cap hit. Dubinsky's is 1.850M. Where the hell are we getting the extra cap room necessary to make this happen?


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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
You'd be foolish if you refused to trade somone with maybe 2-3 dimensions in his game for somone who has like 4 or 5. If we could get back Richards, or someone of that ilk that could turn us into a powerhouse, Dubinsky developing will NEVER make us a contender alone simply by developing.
The only fool here is the person exploring a trade that doesn't work from a cap perspective.



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Originally Posted by IAMREALITY View Post
You're a Dubinsky fan... I get it...
He's a Rangers fan first who would probably move anybody if it guaranteed success.

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Originally Posted by IAMREALITY View Post
There's nothing absurd at all about calling him a hopefully 20 goal scorer. That's what you hope you'll get with him. There's also nothing wrong with calling him mediocre. At this point he's a mediocre 2nd liner when compared to other 2nd liners. And how can you call him such a value to our organization when in the same breath you say he's the 2nd line goto guy because of lack of depth? So you're saying he isn't talented enough to be a 2nd liner goto guy but is there cause there's no one better. Wow. What a value he must bring under that definition.
He was actually our 1st line LW, because of our lack of depth. The Frolov signing is what pushed him back to that second line.

me·di·o·cre   
[mee-dee-oh-ker]

–adjective
1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate.
2. rather poor or inferior.

If you think Dubinsky is mediocre, then it's safe to say you can't evaluate hockey for ****.

Sean Avery, is a rather mediocre hockey player. As is Brandon Prust. And Brandon Boyle. The league is cluttered with bottom-6 players that ultimately don't have a 20G ceiling.

Dubinsky doesn't have to produce that much offensively to be valuable here. Look around the league, and tell me how many legitimate power-forwards under 25 years old are capable of netting 20G, and play a solid two-way game. Go for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMREALITY View Post
And all this stuff about him improving all facets of his game is a bit ridiculous. He improved what, for 10 games?
07-08 82GP-40P SH%8.9
08-09 82GP-41P SH%6.9
09-10 69GP-44P SH%12.1

Naaaahhhhh, he didn't improve jack ****. He actually regressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMREALITY View Post
You have as little fact to your argument as I do. You have a right to your opinion but deriding mine as if it's based in lunacy is just nothing more than bias on your part. The only fact is that Dubinsky is largely an 'unknown' at this point. Will he develop further? Sink into oblivion? Just remain mediocre but still contribute? Who the heck knows. My point is I'm not sure I have such faith in the former any more, at least to the degree of putting at risk the return we could get for him now (packaged with others) as opposed to when the cat's out of the bag; if it should go that way.
He's an unknown to people like yourself. Most of the rest of us have a good feel for his game. And most of us feel is going to continue improving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMREALITY View Post
He has mood swings and he lets them affect his game. He brings little to those that play around him, he misses the net a ton, and on any given game night you have no idea what to expect from him. He may very well prove to be hugely valuable in the coming years. But like I said, it's nothing more than a gut feeling. And my gut's telling me what we see is what we get, and that if we use him in a trade deal now we'll make out better than if later. So the question was thrown out there. But relax. You're a dubi fan. I get it. You don't like negativity thrown at him. Ok, you're entitled. But so am I.
He has mood swings? How the hell do you know this?

Your entire post just reeks like you genuinly dislike the kid, and that's really odd considering you're a Rangers fan who's been watching his team overspend on mediocre talent that plays softer than wet toilet paper.

Dubinsky's only issue, is consistency. About 90% of the league is guilty of that.

Good luck finding a trading partner for a bona fide center under contract for a Dubinsky+ package anyway. Would you trade Gaborik or Lundqvist for a combination of decent players and prospects? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Probably not . . . . .


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09-28-2010, 01:45 AM
  #112
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Dubi is Adam Deadmarsh lite, easy on the lite. Like Deader, Dubi is as loyal as they come, he bleeds blue. Dubi hasn't even tapped his full potential imo. EVERY team in this league would be interested in him, nuff said.

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09-28-2010, 06:58 AM
  #113
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I don't really get the imperative--we have to get rid of Dubinsky now! logic here. He's a big, young, well rounded player. He goes through scoring droughts but so what--practically everyone else does too--even Gaborik was pretty much shut down towards the end of the year. Drury goes goal less sometimes for 15-20 games at a clip. Is Callahan scoring all the time? Or Prospal? For $1.8 mil Dubinsky should be a bargain this year.

On the subject of Zherdev--more creative? Sure. Also a soft player. Nowhere to be found in the playoffs a couple years ago.

As for Richards--beyond the cap hit is a guy who will be UFA next year. It would take a lot more than Dubinsky to get him if only to even out the money so we could be cap compliant and next year we could lose Richards besides. It's just not realistic.

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09-28-2010, 08:31 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I don't really get the imperative--we have to get rid of Dubinsky now! logic here. He's a big, young, well rounded player. He goes through scoring droughts but so what--practically everyone else does too--even Gaborik was pretty much shut down towards the end of the year. Drury goes goal less sometimes for 15-20 games at a clip. Is Callahan scoring all the time? Or Prospal? For $1.8 mil Dubinsky should be a bargain this year.

On the subject of Zherdev--more creative? Sure. Also a soft player. Nowhere to be found in the playoffs a couple years ago.

As for Richards--beyond the cap hit is a guy who will be UFA next year. It would take a lot more than Dubinsky to get him if only to even out the money so we could be cap compliant and next year we could lose Richards besides. It's just not realistic.

See one of my biggest problems is that people always seem to single out Dubinsky for some reason.

I agree completely with your point about the rest of our roster. Some people will argue that they criticize those players as well so it's fine for them to do it to Dubi as well, but when you put Dubi next to any of them he's easily one of the more important members of our team.

Dubinsky IS a bargain for this year, and even if he gets his $3 million next time will be worth that as well.

If you want to trade a guy who's not going to be worth the money he gets (and I'm saying this a tad bit sarcastically, because I'm really only using the same philosophy most of these posters are using towards Dubinsky) then Ryan Callahan is the guy who should be moved.

I love Cally, but if you want a guy who you could potentially get more back for than he's really worth, he's the guy.

Luckily, this organization doesn't want to move either. And we'll be better because of that.


======================

To NYSportsfan...

I'm not having any trouble understanding your philosophy of "If you can upgrade the team and make it better, you do it,"....What I am having trouble with is your complete lack of reality.

You keep bringing up Richards when it makes ZERO sense and the trade would never happen without us throwing in some of our more imporant picks/prospects.

Not to mention he's 30, a UFA after next year, and will cost us close to an $8 million cap hit.

It makes ZERO sense, and you and everyone else saying we should move Dubi have not been able to come up with 1 single trade that would ever even have the POSSIBILITY of happening.


Why would you trade a cheap, core member of your hockey club, for a player you can just sign after next season? This team is NOT ready to win a Cup right now.

You even said that Richards is your only example because you're not able to think of anything else. That should tell you everything you need to know.


You soured on Dubi for the contract because he missed two days of Torts' wind sprints? Again, that's a YOU problem. You can sit there all you want and say he hurt his teammates, but if you really believe that's true then you're just completely ignorant. It's not like Dubinsky missed all that stuff and didn't make it up. I'm sure his teammates really feel he's as selfish as you believe he is, considering he's one of the only guys on the team who ALWAYS stands up for his teammates.

Yeah, who was the guy trying to jump over the penalty box and kill Carcillo last season?

Who was the guy who jumped right on top of Crosby after he whacked Hank with his stick?

Yeah, he's so selfish. Staal is so much more well liked by his teammates cause he showed up TWO days earlier to training camp. I'm sure that's how Hank feels every time he gets run and Staal sits there with his monotone expression and does nothing.


You'd rather Zherdev over Dubi? LOL. That's the funniest thing I've ever heard.

Zherdev made players on his line better? Really? Was he doing that while being invisible all at the same time?

Why don't you tell the Flyers you want to trade them Dubinsky for Zherdev? They'd want that deal done so fast their fax machine would break trying to get it finalized by the league office so quick.

Zherdev!? Over Dubinsky?!? Hilarious. Absolutely hysterical.

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09-28-2010, 08:39 AM
  #115
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They'd want that deal done so fast their fax machine would break trying to get it finalized by the league office so quick.


Morning laughter. Good stuff.

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09-28-2010, 09:05 AM
  #116
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He's a Rangers fan first who would probably move anybody if it guaranteed success.
Ummmm... Ok. Didn't really question that, but whatever.



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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
He was actually our 1st line LW, because of our lack of depth. The Frolov signing is what pushed him back to that second line.
More useless information. Yay!!!

I was talking about the now. The response to me had been about the now, and my return reply had been about now. Never mind the fact that this comment yet again provided nothing of substance towards the discussion.


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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
me·di·o·cre   
[mee-dee-oh-ker]

–adjective
1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate.
2. rather poor or inferior.
OMG you actually posted a definition of mediocre lol. How cliche!


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If you think Dubinsky is mediocre, then it's safe to say you can't evaluate hockey for ****.
Yes, because anyone having a different opinion than you just doesn't know what they're talking about.

Again, when taken into context of what his expectations are, what the hype around him is and what his role is, I think last year he was mediocre. I fear this year and moving forward we'll never see him realize his upside and that he will remain so. Seems like every other game you won't even notice him. You keep wanting to see him 'breakout' yet it just doesn't come, but yet the hope is still there. That's why I say deal now, before the hope dims (again, if it were to go that way).


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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Sean Avery, is a rather mediocre hockey player. As is Brandon Prust. And Brandon Boyle. The league is cluttered with bottom-6 players that ultimately don't have a 20G ceiling.
Thanks captain obvious. Get back to me when any of them have the hype surrounding them that Dubi does.


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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Dubinsky doesn't have to produce that much offensively to be valuable here. Look around the league, and tell me how many legitimate power-forwards under 25 years old are capable of netting 20G, and play a solid two-way game. Go for it.
I never said he didn't have value. My thread question was really as to whether we could acquire even more value if he were part of some trade package.



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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
07-08 82GP-40P SH%8.9
08-09 82GP-41P SH%6.9
09-10 69GP-44P SH%12.1

Naaaahhhhh, he didn't improve jack ****. He actually regressed.
ROFL Ok there pal, you're right. That 2 inch long row of stats prove beyond a doubt that he improved in all facets of his game. Yes! Yes! I'm a dunce!!! I see it now!!! I admit my wrongs and retract my previous statements. Thank you for your indisputable proof!



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He's an unknown to people like yourself. Most of the rest of us have a good feel for his game. And most of us feel is going to continue improving.
Actually, he's an 'unknown' to us all, in the context referred. Not one of us know if he will or won't live up to his potential or if his inconsistency will plague him. And who is this 'most' you speak of? Gettin a bit ahead of yourself there pally. 'Most' of us HOPE he's going to continue to improve. But based on the poll, 'Most' of us would also either trade him outright or not mind gettin rid of him if the right piece came back our way.



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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
He has mood swings? How the hell do you know this?
Wait... You really don't know that Dubi let's his emotions take over a bit? Hell, he's even come right out and admitted it! It's so obvious that he'll take losses hard (almost depressive like) and let it impact his game. Sure, that's part of his youth and something I hope this year we see him mature with, but it also can be a liability and something that can be considered 'infective' if not reigned in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Your entire post just reeks like you genuinly dislike the kid, and that's really odd considering you're a Rangers fan who's been watching his team overspend on mediocre talent that plays softer than wet toilet paper.
Really? Cause I can show you a gazillion posts that would be harsher on him than I've been. Truth be told? I like Dubi. I like him tons when he's on his game. But I also fear with him. I fear for the exact reasons you've put: History of mediocre talent. Right now Dubi has a high perceived value. I fear that he won't rise to the expectations we (and other teams for that matter) have for him and that rather than regret, that we should strike while we can. I just remember so many games I was disappointed in him last year (cause in reality was actually a big fan rooting hard for him to succeed) and so far this preseason he's seemed completely disinterested. Premature sure. But I also love the buzz around our team right now and couldn't help wondering if Dubi is the future (as we had thought) or just something we helped use as bait to acquire a piece that will be. It was really an innocent question in my mind, so I chose to ask it here to the pros.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Dubinsky's only issue, is consistency. About 90% of the league is guilty of that.
Oh c'mon; that's not his only issue and you know it. And regardless, that's a pretty big issue no? And 90% are in no way guilty of it to that degree, but even if; isn't the whole case that Dubi is SUPPOSED to be that other 10%???


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Good luck finding a trading partner for a bona fide center under contract for a Dubinsky+ package anyway.
Cute passive aggression. Problem is I never for a second implied that we would get a bona fide center. I'm thinking more along the lines of veteran defenseman.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Would you trade Gaborik or Lundqvist for a combination of decent players and prospects? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Probably not . . . . .

Ok, wait... Are you now comparing Dubi to Gabby or Hank, or did you just throw that mindless question out there because you ran out of other things to say? If the former; then wow... Just wow.

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09-28-2010, 09:17 AM
  #117
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I don't think we should trade him, but he is frustrating to watch. Too many times I've had to ask myself what he really accomplishes shift to shift. He needs to be more direct, more assertive.

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09-28-2010, 09:17 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
See one of my biggest problems is that people always seem to single out Dubinsky for some reason.

I agree completely with your point about the rest of our roster. Some people will argue that they criticize those players as well so it's fine for them to do it to Dubi as well, but when you put Dubi next to any of them he's easily one of the more important members of our team.

Dubinsky IS a bargain for this year, and even if he gets his $3 million next time will be worth that as well.

If you want to trade a guy who's not going to be worth the money he gets (and I'm saying this a tad bit sarcastically, because I'm really only using the same philosophy most of these posters are using towards Dubinsky) then Ryan Callahan is the guy who should be moved.

I love Cally, but if you want a guy who you could potentially get more back for than he's really worth, he's the guy.

Luckily, this organization doesn't want to move either. And we'll be better because of that.


======================

To NYSportsfan...

I'm not having any trouble understanding your philosophy of "If you can upgrade the team and make it better, you do it,"....What I am having trouble with is your complete lack of reality.

You keep bringing up Richards when it makes ZERO sense and the trade would never happen without us throwing in some of our more imporant picks/prospects.

Not to mention he's 30, a UFA after next year, and will cost us close to an $8 million cap hit.

It makes ZERO sense, and you and everyone else saying we should move Dubi have not been able to come up with 1 single trade that would ever even have the POSSIBILITY of happening.


Why would you trade a cheap, core member of your hockey club, for a player you can just sign after next season? This team is NOT ready to win a Cup right now.

You even said that Richards is your only example because you're not able to think of anything else. That should tell you everything you need to know.


You soured on Dubi for the contract because he missed two days of Torts' wind sprints? Again, that's a YOU problem. You can sit there all you want and say he hurt his teammates, but if you really believe that's true then you're just completely ignorant. It's not like Dubinsky missed all that stuff and didn't make it up. I'm sure his teammates really feel he's as selfish as you believe he is, considering he's one of the only guys on the team who ALWAYS stands up for his teammates.

Yeah, who was the guy trying to jump over the penalty box and kill Carcillo last season?

Who was the guy who jumped right on top of Crosby after he whacked Hank with his stick?

Yeah, he's so selfish. Staal is so much more well liked by his teammates cause he showed up TWO days earlier to training camp. I'm sure that's how Hank feels every time he gets run and Staal sits there with his monotone expression and does nothing.


You'd rather Zherdev over Dubi? LOL. That's the funniest thing I've ever heard.

Zherdev made players on his line better? Really? Was he doing that while being invisible all at the same time?

Why don't you tell the Flyers you want to trade them Dubinsky for Zherdev? They'd want that deal done so fast their fax machine would break trying to get it finalized by the league office so quick.

Zherdev!? Over Dubinsky?!? Hilarious. Absolutely hysterical.
Zherdev was a creampuff. Bordering on gutless. He completely disappeared in that playoff series against Washington. Not denying his talent. He was the most talented forward we had but he was absolutely useless when we needed him most. He could fit in just fine with the Flyers--he won't have to be the best player there. He can settle for 5th best-6th best. Wonderful for him but seriously I'm glad we cut him loose.

Dubinsky does stick up for his teammates. He's not a great fighter but he will fight for others. He plays a hard physical game. He plays with enthusiasm. He can carry the puck up the ice--cycles the puck better than any other forward we have. Kills penalties. That is intangible stuff that's not going to go away. If he continues to improve to 50-55-60 points it only enhances his play. Right now he's a legit 2nd liner--not a 3rd liner. He's going to make more money but it's probably between $3 and $4 mil--more in Girardi's territory. That's a decent deal for a young guy with some size, grit, scoring and a well rounded game.

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Old
09-28-2010, 09:36 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Absolutely could be true. If they do wind up holding onto hom, i hope you guys are right. But I personally don't see it - not like I see offensive upside in Anisimov, for example. I just don't think he has the native creative flair required to be at that next level of scoring. Which is precisely why I'm in favor of moving him. If you disagree, well then I understand why you want to keep hi
. Classic agree to disagree, I guess.
How much creativity did Adam Graves have? Didn't stop him from scoring 52 goals.

AgeGravesYear Games GoalsAssists PointsPPGDubinskyYear Games GoalsAssists PointsPPG
19Graves1987-889011.11Dubinsky2005-0600000
20Graves1988-89567512.21Dubinsky2006-0760000
21Graves1989-907691322.29Dubinsky2007-0882142640.49
22Graves1990-917671825.33Dubinsky2008-0982132841.5
23Graves1991-9280263359.74Dubinsky2009-1069202444.64
24Graves1992-9384362965.77Dubinsky2010-11?????
25Graves1993-9484522779.94Dubinsky2011-12?????

Dubinsky's PPG was higher than Graves' PPG except for his age 23 year, but Graves was on a team that won the president's trophy, while Dubinsky was on a team that missed the playoffs. The Rangers scored 321 goals in Graves' age 23 year. They scored 222 in Dubinsky's age 23 year.

Stick Dubinsky in front of the net on the PP and he can get 30 goals.

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09-28-2010, 09:44 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Zherdev was a creampuff. Bordering on gutless. He completely disappeared in that playoff series against Washington. Not denying his talent. He was the most talented forward we had but he was absolutely useless when we needed him most. He could fit in just fine with the Flyers--he won't have to be the best player there. He can settle for 5th best-6th best. Wonderful for him but seriously I'm glad we cut him loose.

Dubinsky does stick up for his teammates. He's not a great fighter but he will fight for others. He plays a hard physical game. He plays with enthusiasm. He can carry the puck up the ice--cycles the puck better than any other forward we have. Kills penalties. That is intangible stuff that's not going to go away. If he continues to improve to 50-55-60 points it only enhances his play. Right now he's a legit 2nd liner--not a 3rd liner. He's going to make more money but it's probably between $3 and $4 mil--more in Girardi's territory. That's a decent deal for a young guy with some size, grit, scoring and a well rounded game.
Exactly...this is why you keep him. He's a strong kid and not easily taken off the puck. Not alot off flash or super talent..but not a liability.

This is a kid that really shines in a grueling playoff series. When the flashy talent has no room to make plays in a tough checking series, his strengh pushing through the offensive zone eventually wears the defense down. Thats when his few goals make the difference.

He's just another piece thats needed. Other teams would love to have him

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Old
09-28-2010, 10:01 AM
  #121
mullichicken25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
How much creativity did Adam Graves have? Didn't stop him from scoring 52 goals.

AgeGravesYear Games GoalsAssists PointsPPGDubinskyYear Games GoalsAssists PointsPPG
19Graves1987-889011.11Dubinsky2005-0600000
20Graves1988-89567512.21Dubinsky2006-0760000
21Graves1989-907691322.29Dubinsky2007-0882142640.49
22Graves1990-917671825.33Dubinsky2008-0982132841.5
23Graves1991-9280263359.74Dubinsky2009-1069202444.64
24Graves1992-9384362965.77Dubinsky2010-11?????
25Graves1993-9484522779.94Dubinsky2011-12?????

Dubinsky's PPG was higher than Graves' PPG except for his age 23 year, but Graves was on a team that won the president's trophy, while Dubinsky was on a team that missed the playoffs. The Rangers scored 321 goals in Graves' age 23 year. They scored 222 in Dubinsky's age 23 year.

Stick Dubinsky in front of the net on the PP and he can get 30 goals.
nice post

never saw stats side by side like that

we all, myself included, often make the mistake of thinking players are done developing 2 or 3 years into they're career

dubi could still work out those inconsistancies and turn into a hell of a player...if he was on a west cost team at least half the posters on this board would have a giant ***** for him and be willing to part ways with picks/prospects/dmen/young talent to get him

we'll see what happens...if an awesome offer comes around he's gone...but if not, i have 0 problem continuing to develope him here and think he will be a big part of this team's future

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09-28-2010, 10:11 AM
  #122
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If Dubi was on another team, many of his detractors would be salivating over being able to acquire someone of his ilk. Appreciate what we have guys! Plug him into the lineup on day one of the season and just let him play! He's a bit streaky and inconsistent (but aren't the large majority of players) but he brings an awful lot to the table. Glad he's here, glad he ours.

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09-28-2010, 10:12 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
nice post

never saw stats side by side like that

we all, myself included, often make the mistake of thinking players are done developing 2 or 3 years into they're career

dubi could still work out those inconsistancies and turn into a hell of a player...if he was on a west cost team at least half the posters on this board would have a giant ***** for him and be willing to part ways with picks/prospects/dmen/young talent to get him

we'll see what happens...if an awesome offer comes around he's gone...but if not, i have 0 problem continuing to develope him here and think he will be a big part of this team's future
I must admit that some of the year to year comps I've seen have opened my eyes a little to him. It is fascinating to say the least.

I hope he finds him game. I really do. He would be a huge piece to our puzzle if he does. We need an 'Adam Graves' type and if he follows the same path then we're incredibly fortunate and one step closer.

I guess right now I'm just still completely befuddled as to why our budding gritty bleed blue star has been so 'absent' this preseason. I would expect him to be one of the names mentioned every day as far as effort/heart is concerned.

My other discomfort with him, which I haven't really mentioned yet, is that I haven't seen him form chemistry yet with any line he's been on or linemates he's been with. Granted, 'chemistry' has been largely absent from our lines for years; but with a forward like Dubi you'd expect him to help make the players around him better and have an easier time clicking with them. I guess I really just haven't seen that 'clickable' ability with him yet. I think if he can just find his mate and form some brotherhood type chemistry, he'll achieve greatness. When I think of trade value and other teams' interest, I think part of it is the wondering if that chemistry isn't in our club, but instead with some linemate elsewhere.

Yup. I'm sick and babbling a bit; but I hope I'm making at least the slightest sense.

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09-28-2010, 10:29 AM
  #124
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If Dubinsky was on another team, posters would be drooling to have him here. A 24 year old gritty power forward who is a lock for at least 20 goals and 50 points, plays a strong 2 way game. Hell, people here make ridiculous offers for guys who aren't half the gamer Dubi is.

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09-28-2010, 10:33 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMREALITY View Post
I must admit that some of the year to year comps I've seen have opened my eyes a little to him. It is fascinating to say the least.

I hope he finds him game. I really do. He would be a huge piece to our puzzle if he does. We need an 'Adam Graves' type and if he follows the same path then we're incredibly fortunate and one step closer.

I guess right now I'm just still completely befuddled as to why our budding gritty bleed blue star has been so 'absent' this preseason. I would expect him to be one of the names mentioned every day as far as effort/heart is concerned.

My other discomfort with him, which I haven't really mentioned yet, is that I haven't seen him form chemistry yet with any line he's been on or linemates he's been with. Granted, 'chemistry' has been largely absent from our lines for years; but with a forward like Dubi you'd expect him to help make the players around him better and have an easier time clicking with them. I guess I really just haven't seen that 'clickable' ability with him yet. I think if he can just find his mate and form some brotherhood type chemistry, he'll achieve greatness. When I think of trade value and other teams' interest, I think part of it is the wondering if that chemistry isn't in our club, but instead with some linemate elsewhere.

Yup. I'm sick and babbling a bit; but I hope I'm making at least the slightest sense.


I think you're putting way too much stock into the pre-season. You're also answering your own question about chemistry. That's not one players job, it takes everyone on the line.

Dubinsky plays a type of game that WILL make the players around him better. His offensive skills are underrated and his ability to control the puck in the offensive zone and make passes to his linemates sets him apart from most players on our team, save Frolov.

There are way more players to worry about on this roster than Dubinsky, and having the mentality of bailing on him at this point just doesn't make any sense.

And again, there doesn't seem to be anyone who can actually construct a realistic deal.

If you can do that, I'd like to see it.

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