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And then there's the matter of Ruslan Fedotenko

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Old
09-28-2010, 12:33 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HVPOLARBEARS19 View Post
What I meant by that comparison has nothing to do with salary, or even style of play. What it has to do with is another veteran that brings very little to this team. He's not a leader like Shanahan. He's not a scorer like Jagr. We already have a veteran hard-worker/depth guy like Prospal. Sure, he's won 2 cups, but we're probably not going to be competing for one this year. Considering the direction of the team, I'd rather have a spot be given to one of the guys in our system, especially if all he is at this point is a 3rd line forward, something our team has an over-abundance of. You also say he's not going to be expected to provide secondary scoring, but Kotalik wasn't either based on the fact that he was brought in and played on the 4th line for half the time he was here...Fedotenko has actually looked a lot better offensively than Kotalik ever did (who was really a shootout specialist and served some time on the 2nd PP unit), but Fedotenko has looked poor defensively to me, which is disconcerting.


All in all, I just don't think he fits the mold of the team we have going forward. Like I said though, if it's a temporary place holder until Zuc is ready, then I'm not too opposed to it.

I think we are on the same page here because I also do not want him to take a spot from a kid. But if Zuc and others such as grachev are not ready to compete on the NHL level, than he, like prospal is just another placeholder until they are ready.

With Redden gone our cap space is covered this season so if Zuc or someone else begins to light it up in the AHL it will be perfectly fine to either put him on the bench as a reserve or attempt to trade him (if he performs decently) for a pick at the deadline.

IMO i just see no harm in signing him because hes not expected to do anything.....kotalik was brought here to be a pp specialist and put points on the board which he failed at doing.....he was absolutely expected to increase our scoring which he completely failed at. and having a 3 mil salary that put him in just about bad graces with everyone in the organization

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09-28-2010, 12:36 PM
  #52
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Old
09-28-2010, 12:47 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
I think we are on the same page here because I also do not want him to take a spot from a kid. But if Zuc and others such as grachev are not ready to compete on the NHL level, than he, like prospal is just another placeholder until they are ready.

With Redden gone our cap space is covered this season so if Zuc or someone else begins to light it up in the AHL it will be perfectly fine to either put him on the bench as a reserve or attempt to trade him (if he performs decently) for a pick at the deadline.

IMO i just see no harm in signing him because hes not expected to do anything.....kotalik was brought here to be a pp specialist and put points on the board which he failed at doing.....he was absolutely expected to increase our scoring which he completely failed at. and having a 3 mil salary that put him in just about bad graces with everyone in the organization
You make some good points, and I agree, if Zuc/Grachev/another young player isn't ready, than Fedotenko isn't a terrible place holder...if he's cut, I won't lose any sleep though.

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Old
09-28-2010, 12:47 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Fixed, cause I wanted to see it..

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Old
09-28-2010, 01:43 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by lirit View Post
Fixed, cause I wanted to see it..
Two observations...

Gary Thorne and Bill Clement calling the game (and is that JD as the third guy?) = awesome

Ice without that stupid trapezoid = awesome

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09-28-2010, 01:49 PM
  #56
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He was invisible in the first game, great in the second. I don't see how they can give Fedotenko a spot when we have a bunch of players already on the team that have been in the organization longer and are also younger.

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09-28-2010, 02:00 PM
  #57
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He shouldn't beat out Kennedy for a spot. He has no interest in playing defense and Kennedy is a complete player for the kind of game the third/ fourth line should be playing.

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09-28-2010, 02:05 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
He shouldn't beat out Kennedy for a spot. He has no interest in playing defense and Kennedy is a complete player for the kind of game the third/ fourth line should be playing.
Definitely agree. Kennedy is far younger, a more well rounded player and put up similar numbers to Fedetenko last season. Also, with the 24 year old Kennedy, there is room for improvement.

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Old
09-28-2010, 03:19 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
He shouldn't beat out Kennedy for a spot. He has no interest in playing defense and Kennedy is a complete player for the kind of game the third/ fourth line should be playing.
Not the way I see it. If these two are in competition for the same job Fedotenko has the inside track so far. He has looked good.

The hate for vets is starting to get out of hand around here. Just because a guy is younger doesn't mean better.

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09-28-2010, 11:45 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Not the way I see it. If these two are in competition for the same job Fedotenko has the inside track so far. He has looked good.

The hate for vets is starting to get out of hand around here. Just because a guy is younger doesn't mean better.
Or maybe I just think Kennedy is a better player?

I don't think I'm in any extreme minority here. Fedotenko has not been obviously better. It's a matter of opinion, I don't know why you have to doubt my ability to judge a player because we disagree.

Please, tell me what about Fedotenko's game is good enough to warrant a roster spot over Kennedy? I see either of them on the 3rd line, a line usually dedicated to defense and a strong forecheck. I see Kennedy as a stronger defensive player and a better forechecker. Therefore, he is a better fit for the team to me.

In my opinion, Fedotenko tries to be a pure offensive player but doesn't have the skill to earn time on a scoring line. I don't think that this team needs a 3rd line player who is constantly seeking offense without the skill set to either set up or finish terribly well.

Look at what Buffalo fans say about Kennedy and look what Penguins fans say about Fedotenko. Kennedy is missed nearly across the board. People are mad at the management for letting him go. Few pens fans are terribly upset to lose Fedotenko. That says something about their relative values as well.

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09-29-2010, 01:03 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Or maybe I just think Kennedy is a better player?

I don't think I'm in any extreme minority here. Fedotenko has not been obviously better. It's a matter of opinion, I don't know why you have to doubt my ability to judge a player because we disagree.

Please, tell me what about Fedotenko's game is good enough to warrant a roster spot over Kennedy? I see either of them on the 3rd line, a line usually dedicated to defense and a strong forecheck. I see Kennedy as a stronger defensive player and a better forechecker. Therefore, he is a better fit for the team to me.

In my opinion, Fedotenko tries to be a pure offensive player but doesn't have the skill to earn time on a scoring line. I don't think that this team needs a 3rd line player who is constantly seeking offense without the skill set to either set up or finish terribly well.

Look at what Buffalo fans say about Kennedy and look what Penguins fans say about Fedotenko. Kennedy is missed nearly across the board. People are mad at the management for letting him go. Few pens fans are terribly upset to lose Fedotenko. That says something about their relative values as well.
We already lost Drury to a broken finger, we will lose more guys during the year. I feel Fedotenko is the better option out of the two to step up more offensively and give secondary scoring when the lineup is healthy. Also Avery plays LW and misses 20 or so odd games a season between his injuries and suspensions. It's not the worst idea to have a veteran russian for guys like Anisimov, Grachev, ect. A veteran with two rings and a lot of playoff experience.

Some of you were willing to give Zherdev another chance and he did nothing in the playoffs and would cost a lot more. Already showed he would crumble under a coach like Torts where Fedotenko played well under him. I don't see the draw back to signing him.

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Old
09-29-2010, 01:37 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
But he's only scored 20 goals more than once in his career and won't be cracking our top 3 lines (at the expense of more deserved players already on the roster).... He's not getting slotted into my top 9, so I don't see a role he can play on our 4th line... Which current Rangers would you sit in favor of him on the 2nd PP unit? For me this matter is simple... Cut! Next matter please.
I don't see how he doesn't crack the top 9 on this team unless you think Kennedy deserves 3rd line minutes and that Avery's spot in the top 9 is safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagrcantakeyou View Post
you forgot about Stepan who will most likely make the squad
I didn't "forget" about him.

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Originally Posted by nyranger61494 View Post
Personally, I think Avery is wasted on the 4th line. His play merits more than 6-8 minutes of ice, which is what a 4th line on a Tortorella team gets if they are lucky, and if he is going to have influence on a game and disrupt the opposition's star players that amount of ice-time won't cut it.
Avery can take shifts at the right times of the game with other lines. I don't think he's wasted at all on the 4th line. He can also kill penalties and play on the PP. He can still net anywhere from 10-14 mins of ice time even being penciled in on the 4th line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DelZottoFutureNorris View Post
Do i like the idea of having Fedotenko around as DEPTH for injuries? Yes.

Do I like his versatility? Yes

Do I like the fact that Zuccarello was far and away our best forechecker last game and showed he gets the puck to the net and now Fedotenko is getting the nod over him simply because he's a "Torts guy" and scored one preseason powerplay goal after a miserable season on a STANLEY CUP caliber team? No. Not one bit.

I hope he does well, because I'll always root for a guy in a Rangers uniform. But I'd much rather have Zuccarello get a season under his belt than hope Fedotenko scores 25-25 and then leaves after a year or two. Unless Fedotenko helps us win the cup this year, it's not a good move. He's not a part of the future and he's absolutely taking a roster spot that could be filled by a young player who had done absolutely nothing yet to prove he CAN'T handle this level.
I don't really understand where you get off making assumptions that MZA isn't a "torts guy", but I don't think this is the case at all.

I also don't know why it's such a foreign concept to people that throwing every prospect right into the fire when they're not ready isn't the best way to develop them, and that there are plenty of things a player can benefit from in the A, especially one that's played very little at a professional level with NHL rules and rink size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
What worries me is that so many times guys come to camp on a tryout basis, are super motivated, have a great camp, are signed, and then disappear during the regular season.
like who?

Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
He shouldn't beat out Kennedy for a spot. He has no interest in playing defense and Kennedy is a complete player for the kind of game the third/ fourth line should be playing.
I disagree; not sure why you think Feds has no interest in playing defense. He plays a two way game. If we want to lean less on our top 6 for production, I think you almost need to go with Feds over Kennedy on the third line.


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Old
09-29-2010, 02:29 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I don't see how he doesn't crack the top 9 on this team unless you think Kennedy deserves 3rd line minutes and that Avery's spot in the top 9 is safe.


I didn't "forget" about him.


Avery can take shifts at the right times of the game with other lines. I don't think he's wasted at all on the 4th line. He can also kill penalties and play on the PP. He can still net anywhere from 10-14 mins of ice time even being penciled in on the 4th line.


I don't really understand where you get off making assumptions that MZA isn't a "torts guy", but I don't think this is the case at all.

I also don't know why it's such a foreign concept to people that throwing every prospect right into the fire when they're not ready isn't the best way to develop them, and that there are plenty of things a player can benefit from in the A, especially one that's played very little at a professional level with NHL rules and rink size.



like who?


I disagree; not sure why you think Feds has no interest in playing defense. He plays a two way game. If we want to lean less on our top 6 for production, I think you almost need to go with Feds over Kennedy on the third line.
Umm, I didn't say MZA isn't a Torts guy. I just said that Fedotenko IS, because its clear that Torts feels more comfortable with guys he KNOWS and has coached before over a guy who he has just met and seen play in TWO preseason games. I think MZA's game actually does fit the mold of a "Torts guy" once he gets a FAIR shot and gets rolling. The bottom line is that MZA was showing a lot of good things out there, and although he looked raw and was clearly feeling his way through it, I do not understand at all why he was sent down so early instead of playing at least 1-2 more pre-season games before a final decision was made as to where he will START the season. I know this isn't the end of the world and I'm very confident he'll be back up before we know it. That's not the point. Roster spots were supposed to be given based on performance, not on history, and that's clearly not true with all these decisions since Fedotenko is still here and MZA was sent down right after he played his most involved game yet. With a player like MZA especially, I don't see what the AHL has to offer that he can't get in the NHL. Is playing in the AHL going to teach him to be taller? The turnovers are easily controlled and he was actually MUCH better in that department against Detroit than he was against NJ in his first game. And I certainly don't think it's a case of MZA being detrimental to the big club and needing time in the AHL to become a more contributing player. With a player with that much skill, it's merely about timing, confidence, and finding the right linemates. This is not a case like Grachev where he looked completely unengaged and unsure of where to be. MZA is ready to play now. But he's being shafted in favor of a guy who isn't being held to the same standards because he's Torts' boy. That's how I'm seeing it from here, anyway. If Fedotenko doesn't make the opening night roster, I'll eat my words.

Secondly, I love these blanket statements that MZA "isn't ready" and implying that him playing in the NHL right now would be bad for his development. You must be one hell of a talent scout to be able to conclude that from two pre-season games in which MZA was a top fore-checker, and showed he has NHL speed, NHL hands, NHL shot, and NHL smarts. The ONLY negative that he showed was turnovers. Even the physical part of the game he showed that he can handle it against much bigger, hard-hitting players, at least so far. The turnovers are something that can SOOOO easily be fixed. If you can't understand why I'm frustrated that a guy who is clearly NOT part of the FUTURE success / progress of this team is likely getting an opening night roster spot over a guy who was clearly signed to BE a part of the future and has done nothing to show conclusively that he can't handle it, then I really don't think I can spell it out much more clearly.

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Old
09-29-2010, 01:51 PM
  #64
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personally feel that if we can get rid of Avery we will.
Boyle probably won't get a look anywhere.
Fedotenko is in the Steve Larmer territory, there are too many intangibles. Torts must owe him, and now he is playing well enough to get 2n and 3rd looks.

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09-29-2010, 02:08 PM
  #65
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I don't see room for the guy. When everyone is healthy assuming Stepan in the minors At this point that's a big assumption as he may make it. I still see it as

Frolov, Christiensen, Gaborik
Dubinsky, Anisimov, Prospal
Avery, Drury, Callahan
Boogaard, Boyle/Kennedy, Prust

So Fedotenko a spare sure but otherwise doesnt make much sense. I see White going down .Saves on the cap and guys like Boyle and Kennedy can likely do the same job

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Old
09-29-2010, 04:09 PM
  #66
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As I said in the cuts thread -- he's made the team. The # change, to me, means he's been told by Torts that he has officially made the team. Makes no sense otherwise.

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Old
09-29-2010, 04:11 PM
  #67
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Well, he aint gonna play in the regular season without a contract.

Whats his # been changed to?

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09-29-2010, 04:13 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Well, he aint gonna play in the regular season without a contract.

Whats his # been changed to?
27. Contract should be a formality, IMO.

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Old
09-29-2010, 05:07 PM
  #69
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27. Contract should be a formality, IMO.
27 Kovalev number? Oh i'm not gonna like that. I may have to rethink my endorcement of Fedotenko now.

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09-29-2010, 08:32 PM
  #70
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hes been outstanding...i dont know how anyone could be against signing him.

but we have WAY too many forwards now, and outside of White, none of them scream "CUT ME!"

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09-29-2010, 08:45 PM
  #71
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I didn't want him to begin with... But he's starting to change my mind a little bit. If he plays with the same intensity level night in-night out, I wouldn't mind him.

So it wouldn't be the end of the world if he ends up here, I guess.

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Old
09-29-2010, 10:36 PM
  #72
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IMO they have to sign him, period. You can't go on and on (and on and on and on) about how merit will determine who plays and then not offer a contract to a guy who basically came in and was one of the top 5 forwards on the squad. Furthermore, you can see that he's already inserted himself as part of the fabric of the lockerroom.

I was against bringing him in, but since we did and he's played as well as he has, give him his contract - he's earned it.

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Old
09-29-2010, 10:40 PM
  #73
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IMO they have to sign him, period. You can't go on and on (and on and on and on) about how merit will determine who plays and then not offer a contract to a guy who basically came in and was one of the top 5 forwards on the squad. Furthermore, you can see that he's already inserted himself as part of the fabric of the lockerroom.

I was against bringing him in, but since we did and he's played as well as he has, give him his contract - he's earned it.
He has been very good. I am honestly surprised but it may just be a case of Torts knowing the player and the player knowing what the coach expects of him. We saw it last year with Prospal, seems to be re-occurring this year with Fedotenko. Next year, Richards

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Old
09-29-2010, 10:49 PM
  #74
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Fedotenko looks really happy here. I think he should be signed based on his performance so far

I'm not sure who will get the boot as a result though. Most of the forwards have looked good, period. It's going to be a tough decision

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Old
09-30-2010, 01:17 AM
  #75
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Do not want.
this.

if he can be signed to a 1 yr contract for 1mil or less and have him on the 4th line maybe 3rd. then MAYBE
other than that
no thank you. at all. ever.

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