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Old
09-29-2010, 06:45 AM
  #476
chosen
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Who cares though? As long as the new whipping boy doesn't have 4 years remaining on his contract ala Redden, what does it matter? The whole point of this process is that the Rangers simply could not stand around and continue to endure a $6.5 mil cap hit for a declining mediocre player for another 4 more years...
I have no problem with what sather did by demoting Redden.

My problems are with Sather for making his 567th error since being here by acquiring Redden at that price and with fans who focus on a molecule-sized version of what the problem is by acting like the Rangers won the Cup because they demoted an overpaid, mediocre defenseman.

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09-29-2010, 07:46 AM
  #477
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I don't think anyone deserves the status of whipping boy, because all it accomplishes is to take the focus away from how overall terrible the team is. It's merely throwing some raw meat at an angry mob, in order to make them happy for a few fleeting moments.

Do I think Redden deserves to stay in NY? No. Do I think he was terrible last season? No? He was exceptionally mediocre. Do I think that whoever replaces him will be better? No clue. We'll wait and see to find out the answer to that one.

My point wasn't that he deserved to stay or that he was in any way good. My point was that I know that fans need someone to be crazed annoyed at and I asked the question who will replace him as whipping boy.

Make no mistake about this; Unless they are incredibly improved this year, someone will become the new Redden to fans that need that sort of stuff.

That is what I meant.
The "new" Redden will be two guys that were occasional whipping boys the past few seasons... Drury & Rozi. Maybe Gilroy if he botches plays in his own end on a consistent basis like last season.

I know Drury does "a lot of the little things right" but if he doesn't score more he'll be on the poo poo list... if only for the fact that you can't pay someone 6-7M as a PK specialist. Rozi will be the whipping boy the moment he loses a puck at the point and some lucky opposition forward goes in alone on Hank because of it.

It's going to happen. And while cases can be made that Drury and Rozi don't deserve it... there are also reasons that they do. It's just the way of the world.

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09-29-2010, 09:25 AM
  #479
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Chosen just about sums it up...Sather's had the ability to sweep his mistakes under the carpet while other GMs would've been out of a job several times during his tenure. Bravo for Sather for getting rid of a 6 year problem in year 3; bravo to the Rangers organization for not having a problem spending $23MM over the next four seasons on a Hartford Wolfpack player. Great job! What's next?

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09-29-2010, 10:09 AM
  #480
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I wonder what Sather says to Dolan. Does he blame it on Redden for not playing like he is "supposed" to or does he say, "Sorry Mr. Dolan, I effed up."?

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09-29-2010, 10:18 AM
  #481
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Luckily for Sather both Drury & Rozsival come off the books after next season. Heck, he may even be able to trade Rozsival after this year.

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09-29-2010, 10:41 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Chosen just about sums it up...Sather's had the ability to sweep his mistakes under the carpet while other GMs would've been out of a job several times during his tenure. Bravo for Sather for getting rid of a 6 year problem in year 3; bravo to the Rangers organization for not having a problem spending $23MM over the next four seasons on a Hartford Wolfpack player. Great job! What's next?
$12 bud lights?

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Old
09-29-2010, 11:07 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by ExtremeHockeyFan View Post
Two thumbs up. Demoting Redden does not solve the team's real problem. Redden may be out of the loop, but Sather is still in place. The same GM who drafted Jessimen ahead of Parise, Getzlaf, and Richards. The same GM who gave Bobby Holik 9 million per. The same GM who gave Redden the horrible deal in the first place (and Kasparitus, Gomez, Drury). The same GM whose team has won a whopping 14 playoff games since 2000. The same GM who said, "If I had the NY Rangers' payroll, my team would never lose" and then got that payroll and missed the playoffs 4 seasons in a row.

I do realize I am mentioning well-documented issues here. But that's the whole problem: these things are well-documented, this guy is a complete joke as a GM, the team still looks utterly mediocre and isn't close to being seriously competitive, and no one seems all that bothered by it. Personally, I'm not so certain that if a GM is so incompetent that he has to essentially end an NHL-caliber player's career by burying him in the minors to cover his gross mismanagement of the salary cap that said GM is qualified to run a hot dog stand.

I've been a hardcore NYR fan since the mid 70s, and I do feel I have a right to be pissed about Sather still having a job and the overall mismanagement of this team.
good points. overpaying a guy is a f... up, but having the chance to draft guys like u listed above, missing out on them is a major screw up.

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09-29-2010, 11:18 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I have no problem with what sather did by demoting Redden.

My problems are with Sather for making his 567th error since being here by acquiring Redden at that price and with fans who focus on a molecule-sized version of what the problem is by acting like the Rangers won the Cup because they demoted an overpaid, mediocre defenseman.
Agreed, I'm not going to praise Sather for sweeping his own problems under the rug. Not to mention that waiving Redden is pretty much a no-brainer for a team that can afford to do it.

I think Redden is something like the 9th or 10th free agent signing since 2006 that has failed to finish out the duration of his contract with the Rangers.

Ward, Cullen, Gomez, Kalinin, Rissmiller, Voros, Kotalik, Brashear, and now Redden. Naslund retired with one year remaining on his contract so I can't really get on Slats for that. But his track record for FAs is horrendous... far more FA signings have been traded/waived than those that have stuck around. One would think that he would learn from his mistakes and stop making bad FA signings in the first place, but that remains to be seen.

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09-29-2010, 11:46 AM
  #485
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Don't praise Sather. Praise Dolan. He's the one who's perfectly fine with paying a guy 6M+ to play minor league hockey.

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09-29-2010, 03:52 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Agreed, I'm not going to praise Sather for sweeping his own problems under the rug. Not to mention that waiving Redden is pretty much a no-brainer for a team that can afford to do it.

I think Redden is something like the 9th or 10th free agent signing since 2006 that has failed to finish out the duration of his contract with the Rangers.

Ward, Cullen, Gomez, Kalinin, Rissmiller, Voros, Kotalik, Brashear, and now Redden. Naslund retired with one year remaining on his contract so I can't really get on Slats for that. But his track record for FAs is horrendous... far more FA signings have been traded/waived than those that have stuck around. One would think that he would learn from his mistakes and stop making bad FA signings in the first place, but that remains to be seen.
You guys aren't even mentioning the worst part: most of the failed free agent signings were so obviously doomed before they began. That's what is most mindboggling about Sather. It's like he doesn't watch the games at all, because he doesn't see things that any dedicated observer could see simply by paying attention.

Redden, Gomez, Drury (who I like but would never acquire at this salary), Kotalik, Voros, Cullen, Rissmiller, now Boogaard (not to mention Holik, Lindros, etc). These were all such predictably terrible moves. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on Brashear, who was effective the season before, but that's it. The only way he can tell Dolan that it's Redden's "fault" is because Dolan knows nothing about this sport.

It's Sather's fault for not being able to see the painfully obvious fact that Redden's tortoise pace was tailor-made for the prelockout NHL, but clearly does not translate to the post-lockout league. Guys in their 30s don't develop an extra gear, they tend to lose them.

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09-29-2010, 04:24 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I think the team played to its talent level. Fans aren't supposed to do anything. They can do whatever they want. Usually that means screaming at defensemen who are not perceived as tough, because if we ain't winning we better see some violence, at the very least.

Redden was doomed the moment he took the cash from the imbecile's pockets.
Redden was doomed because he couldn't live up to the hype around his signing and the expectations most fans would have of a player making that much money. IMO you can't overlook a players contract in these cap times when assessing that player. I know there is another philosophy built around the idea that Redden earned his contract all those years he played for Ottawa just as Drury earned his contract all those years playing for Buffalo which basically about market correction. If they fail their expectations they'll pay for it next time they're up for a contract. That was all well and good pre-cap in those days of sky's the limit spending.

I don't really care all that much when the fans start jumping on somebody--sure they're not always fair but generally their instincts are very good or at least better than some of the management we've had. Players who don't respond positively to criticism or booing might be too fragile anyway and better off somewhere else. I'm trying to think who the fans weren't happy with in '94? I can't think of anyone. Put a good team on the ice and they seem to give the team more love.

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09-29-2010, 04:36 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Don't praise Sather. Praise Dolan. He's the one who's perfectly fine with paying a guy 6M+ to play minor league hockey.
Agreed. Sometimes it's good to be a fan of the Rangers since our owner has unlimited pockets. Sometimes it's good.

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09-29-2010, 04:40 PM
  #489
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Don't praise Sather. Praise Dolan. He's the one who's perfectly fine with paying a guy 6M+ to play minor league hockey.
Dolan knows so little about hockey he probably doesn't what the minor leagues are.

I mean what it REALLY surprise you if deep down he doesn't understand what he actually did? And that it's a hefty price tag to pay?

Not me...

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09-29-2010, 04:47 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by ExtremeHockeyFan View Post
Two thumbs up. Demoting Redden does not solve the team's real problem. Redden may be out of the loop, but Sather is still in place. The same GM who drafted Jessimen ahead of Parise, Getzlaf, and Richards. The same GM who gave Bobby Holik 9 million per. The same GM who gave Redden the horrible deal in the first place (and Kasparitus, Gomez, Drury). The same GM whose team has won a whopping 14 playoff games since 2000. The same GM who said, "If I had the NY Rangers' payroll, my team would never lose" and then got that payroll and missed the playoffs 4 seasons in a row.

I do realize I am mentioning well-documented issues here. But that's the whole problem: these things are well-documented, this guy is a complete joke as a GM, the team still looks utterly mediocre and isn't close to being seriously competitive, and no one seems all that bothered by it. Personally, I'm not so certain that if a GM is so incompetent that he has to essentially end an NHL-caliber player's career by burying him in the minors to cover his gross mismanagement of the salary cap that said GM is qualified to run a hot dog stand.

I've been a hardcore NYR fan since the mid 70s, and I do feel I have a right to be pissed about Sather still having a job and the overall mismanagement of this team.
Fantastic post

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09-29-2010, 05:09 PM
  #491
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Hopefully Redden enjoys being a Whalepacker.

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09-29-2010, 05:25 PM
  #492
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I love how people try to find any excuse to rip on Sather. Listen, I hate the guy too but some of you get carried away.

Sather does NOT get the fault or praise on players drafted like Jessiman or Staal. I seriously doubt Sather watched more than 1 game of any of his draft picks.

Sather listens to his scout personnel and they deserve the credit or blame.

I love how when draft picks go sour it's Sather's fault but when picks are homeruns (of late) then it's Clark's doing.

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09-29-2010, 06:24 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
I love how people try to find any excuse to rip on Sather. Listen, I hate the guy too but some of you get carried away.

Sather does NOT get the fault or praise on players drafted like Jessiman or Staal. I seriously doubt Sather watched more than 1 game of any of his draft picks.

Sather listens to his scout personnel and they deserve the credit or blame.

I love how when draft picks go sour it's Sather's fault but when picks are homeruns (of late) then it's Clark's doing.
Staal fell into our laps, my grandma would have known to take him at that spot. The scouts get major input but the final call is Slats. He is also the one who hired the scouts to make the best possible picks. So yeah it's at his feet.

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09-29-2010, 06:47 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Redden was doomed because he couldn't live up to the hype around his signing and the expectations most fans would have of a player making that much money. IMO you can't overlook a players contract in these cap times when assessing that player. I know there is another philosophy built around the idea that Redden earned his contract all those years he played for Ottawa just as Drury earned his contract all those years playing for Buffalo which basically about market correction. If they fail their expectations they'll pay for it next time they're up for a contract. That was all well and good pre-cap in those days of sky's the limit spending.

I don't really care all that much when the fans start jumping on somebody--sure they're not always fair but generally their instincts are very good or at least better than some of the management we've had. Players who don't respond positively to criticism or booing might be too fragile anyway and better off somewhere else. I'm trying to think who the fans weren't happy with in '94? I can't think of anyone. Put a good team on the ice and they seem to give the team more love.
It was never Redden's fault for stealing money from an imbecile. If Sather offered you 6 million a year and you knew you couldn't skate, you'd still take. Everyone would. The anger in this thread is directed at the wrong guy, as usual.

You're right, if the team has a legit shot of winning it all, fans will back off a bit, because there is no need for a lightning rod when things are great, but I remember some very good teams through the years that still had players that constantly got rode. Inevitably, they were defensemen. Fans hate non-physical dmen unless they are really good otherwise.

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09-29-2010, 06:51 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
I love how people try to find any excuse to rip on Sather. Listen, I hate the guy too but some of you get carried away.

Sather does NOT get the fault or praise on players drafted like Jessiman or Staal. I seriously doubt Sather watched more than 1 game of any of his draft picks.

Sather listens to his scout personnel and they deserve the credit or blame.

I love how when draft picks go sour it's Sather's fault but when picks are homeruns (of late) then it's Clark's doing.
When the company goes bad, the guy at the helm takes the heat, except when he is the man in charge of the Rangers, according to you.

Dolan owns all of it but Sather is in charge of the decision making for the Rangers. That is what the GM's job is. Sather gets all the praise and derision when it comes to personnel decisions, in my view. It's that plain and simple.

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09-29-2010, 08:50 PM
  #497
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It was never Redden's fault for stealing money from an imbecile. If Sather offered you 6 million a year and you knew you couldn't skate, you'd still take. Everyone would. The anger in this thread is directed at the wrong guy, as usual.

You're right, if the team has a legit shot of winning it all, fans will back off a bit, because there is no need for a lightning rod when things are great, but I remember some very good teams through the years that still had players that constantly got rode. Inevitably, they were defensemen. Fans hate non-physical dmen unless they are really good otherwise.
I'm not angry at Redden per se. Anybody is entitled to an over inflated opinion about themselves. What I'm not happy about is we spent $6.5 mil for a player supposed to be a first pairing--solid in his own end--contributing on the pwp d-man and didn't get anything close from that player. I'm not saying he didn't have good intentions or whatever--it's just having good intentions isn't always enough.

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