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Rangers might be interested in Souray on re-entry waivers

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Old
10-01-2010, 08:31 AM
  #51
Procrastinator
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as much of a liability that he is, he does add grit and besides avery he may be the only other guy who would drop the gloves. for that reason alone hes worth considering.

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10-01-2010, 08:44 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
as much of a liability that he is, he does add grit and besides avery he may be the only other guy who would drop the gloves. for that reason alone hes worth considering.
First, we have Prust and Boogaard. Second, while Souray is willing, it seems he winds up with a serious injury every time he fights. Shoulder, Hand, whatever. If you do bring him in, it's not to fight. Christ. People are *****ing that Boogaard makes too much for his role. So let's bring in a guy who makes even MORE to do the same thing.

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10-01-2010, 08:59 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Byers and Weise did not come close to earning the spot in training camp. Fedotenko did. That is not a case of the players not being given a chance to earn the spot, it's a chance of the players failing to earn the spot.

The defense situation is a little different. However, Valentenko and McDonagh were never both going to make the team. It was a one or the other proposition (because they're both LD and too young to make it as the 7th d-man when they can eat big minutes in Hartford). Sauer is a different situation, but even then, the Rangers very well could be sending him to Hartford/trading him regardless of Souray.

The player most likely affected by this is Eminger/Sauer. Souray slots into the top 6, the former #6 d-man (I'm assuming it will be Gilroy, but it may be Sauer) slides down to #7, and Sauer/Eminger lose their spot. I'd be sad to see Sauer lose a spot, but I'm not sure he's going to get the #7 spot anyway.
Byers granted didn't do much in the game h played but you couldn't be more wrong on Weise. The guy was with Bolye and Boogy the games he played and he was outstanding. He hit every thing that moved and had a bunch of chances and the line was a plus 2 for the games. Weise did what he had to to get a look.

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10-01-2010, 09:00 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
as much of a liability that he is, he does add grit and besides avery he may be the only other guy who would drop the gloves. for that reason alone hes worth considering.
Duby Callahan Prust Boyle and Boogaard all drop there gloves this isn't 1983

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10-01-2010, 09:04 AM
  #55
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Brooksie might just be looking to stir it up a little, especially when one of his competitors breaks the story of the rumors around Fla, Clb, and Pho.

But, it is very possible that it could happen for a few reasons.

1) I believe it was Tortorella himself that said they may look to add a veteran presence on the blueline. Is Eminger that veteran presence? Souray IMO is more of a Veteran presence than Eminger is.

2) Glen Sather loves the reclamation project, and even moreso loves a good deal. If he can get something out of what others are considering a "washed up" player he will take the gamble. Look at the past...Bure, Lindros, Jagr, Gaborik, Ozolinsh. Some of them **** the bed, while others worked out pretty damn good for the club. He may indeed see Souray at a $2.7 mil cap hit a good deal and a talented player who fell out of favor for either injuries or in this case maybe "poor attitude"

The positives...

Booming, accurate point shot.

Instantly creates a new dynamic to the power play, which may create a little more
ice for the rest of the PP unit.

Likes to stick up for his teammates and is a pretty good fighter

Will play the body and while at 33 he may not be the mosty physical presence, he would still bolster that department somewhat much in the same way a Paul Mara did.

At 6'4 233LBS he Adds size, he's the prototypical Western Canadien Defenseman, big, attitude, big point shot.


In 08/09 he had a very respectable season...23 goals, 30 assists and 23 power play points. Think about this...The last Rangers defenseman to score 50 points was Brian Leetch in 2002! Poti and Rozsival had 40 pt season in 03 and 07. Now it is very possibly for a Michael Del Zotto to post a 50 pt season this year and he may just get the icetime to do it. But...MDZ also posted the worst plus minus on the club last year... with a -20.

The Negatives...

The attitude that came forward in that interview where he asked for a trde was very self centered, and really dissapointing for a fan to read. One sour apple can spoil the whole bunch. <--This to me is the biggest problem if indeed Souray is really like that interview suggested. There is no Mark Messier on this team to put someone in thier place.

At 33 yeasrs old his better hockey is likely behind him

Can take a roster spot from young legs that have thus far done a hell of a job making this team. More specifically Gilroy, McDonough, Velentenko, Sauer

Over the past 5 seasons is a combined -71

Not very solid in his own end according to "the good posters of HF boards"



NY is a big city, with lots of distractions. Does he have the will power to walk the line here and stay focused on what he is here for...Playing hockey?

The question I am asking myself though is this.

Staal/Girardi
Rozy/MDZ
Gilroy/McDonough
Sauer
or
Tank

Or...

Staal/Girardi
Rosy/MDZ
Souray/McDonough
Sauer
or Tank


Which crew is better suited for the 2010/2011 Eastern Conference?

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Old
10-01-2010, 09:06 AM
  #56
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I'm actually with ODC on this one. I wouldn't take Souray on re-entry. Too many defenseman. Someone valuable will lose a spot.

I would, however, trade Rozy for Souray+.

Souray: 5.4M cap hit, $9M real money
Rozy: 5M cap hit, $7M real money.

It's a small salary dump, and they're saving real money. We could probably drag at least a 3rd round pick out of them for it.

Rozy for Souray & a 3rd. Play him with Marc Staal, I'm sure that will help his offense when he knows Staal will be back there to help him out. I like Roszival, but this just seems like good asset management to me. Rozy is getting worse with age, and while Souray is no superstar these days, they both have the same amount of years left on their contracts, and with the overflow of defenseman, even if Souray gets injured I'm sure we could pull a decent defenseman out of the minors to cover for him. Or play our 7th.

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Old
10-01-2010, 09:07 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
Since he's on re-entry waivers, the team that picks him up only pays half his salary which would be 2.7 million (half of 5.4 million), and the team that waived him pays the other half.

It's like our situation with Sean Avery. We picked him up on re-entry from the Stars so we only pay him 1.9 million of 3.8 million and the stars pay the other 1.9.
I understand how re-entry works. I thought though that since he is getting 4.5 million each of the next two years, that was what would be halved on re-entry, not the original 5.4 salary average.

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Old
10-01-2010, 09:08 AM
  #58
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Sounds like a decent idea, until you think of your three youth defensemen fighting for the last spot.

I'd pass.

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10-01-2010, 09:24 AM
  #59
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Old
10-01-2010, 09:24 AM
  #60
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So the Rangers are interested in picking up Souray on re-entry waivers, but Edmonton has no plans to put him on re-entry waivers.

Sounds like a big non-story to me. Must be a slow news day for Larry.

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Old
10-01-2010, 09:26 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Lundqvist4Vezina View Post
Sounds like a decent idea, until you think of your three youth defensemen fighting for the last spot.

I'd pass.
I don't see the correlation. If the Rangers serious about Souray, they're obviously comfortable with the idea of sending one or two of them down.

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10-01-2010, 09:53 AM
  #62
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I've been okay with the moves so far.

MZA clearly could use some time to learn the NA rinks and game.
Grachev didn't look ready.
The other kids like Weise and Byers did nothing to show that they belong over the tons of 3rd liners and 4th liners in camp.

So, I'm okay with how the youth movement to date. But one of the things that makes it a positive so far is that the young kids who have impressed appear to be forcing their way on to the roster and I'm currently looking forward to a team with 2 or, yes, even 3 rookies on defense.

[And for those who say "OMG 3 rookies on D - are you crazy, that team will never compete!" let me be clear that 1) I'm perfectly happy to live with their growing pains this year - in fact, I look forward to it and 2) as much as you cannot fathom this fact, WE AREN'T COMPETING THIS YEAR ANYWAY.]

But if the Rangers go out and bring in this malcontented, injury-prone, defensively deficient and potentially washed up defenseman simply 'cause he's there and "hey, he's half price!" when we have so many deserving candidates from within that they haven't been able to trim the roster yet... well, then it's right back to business as usual.

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10-01-2010, 09:58 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I've been okay with the moves so far.

MZA clearly could use some time to learn the NA rinks and game.
Grachev didn't look ready.
The other kids like Weise and Byers did nothing to show that they belong over the tons of 3rd liners and 4th liners in camp.

So, I'm okay with how the youth movement to date. But one of the things that makes it a positive so far is that the young kids who have impressed appear to be forcing their way on to the roster and I'm currently looking forward to a team with 2 or, yes, even 3 rookies on defense.

[And for those who say "OMG 3 rookies on D - are you crazy, that team will never compete!" let me be clear that 1) I'm perfectly happy to live with their growing pains this year - in fact, I look forward to it and 2) as much as you cannot fathom this fact, WE AREN'T COMPETING THIS YEAR ANYWAY.]

But if the Rangers go out and bring in this malcontented, injury-prone, defensively deficient and potentially washed up defenseman simply 'cause he's there and "hey, he's half price!" when we have so many deserving candidates from within that they haven't been able to trim the roster yet... well, then it's right back to business as usual.
I agree. That's why adding Souray makes no sense. Just let the kids play.

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Old
10-01-2010, 10:04 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Brooks has written about the Rangers alleged interest in Souray a couple of times and then either doesn't follow up or writes the Rangers did not have interest in Souray. Columbus is not taking Souray on re-entry unless they can dump salary. That's been reported in the Columbus Post Dispatch. Is Souray really going to make the Rangers much better at this stage of his career? He had zero PPG last season which was cut short by injuries which is another issue with Souray. The FUBAR thread was based on the Rangers alleged interest in Souray last winter. Help the PP when he has zero PPG and he should get 10 PPG by accident with his shot. Age,injuries and big contract. Sounds like a perfect Ranger.

How much of the latest report on Souray is his agent Paul Theofanous(NYC based) attempting to drum up any interest in his client? If you believe what Bob McKenzie and Darren Dreger have reported on twitter,there is basically no market for Souray. $9 million in real money left. $4.5 million-re-entry.

Yeah the Rangers could fit the $2.7 million in the cap but its going to cost a young player on a spot on D and the Rangers will be bumping up against the upper limit for most of the season and they will have to carry 21 players.

PASS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
No point in bringing him in. It's not like the Rangers' youngsters vying for a spot have crapped the bed. If this season is about building and adding to the young core, (as per Tortorella), adding Souray is pointless.
/thread

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Old
10-01-2010, 10:13 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Byers and Weise did not come close to earning the spot in training camp. Fedotenko did. That is not a case of the players not being given a chance to earn the spot, it's a chance of the players failing to earn the spot.

Azrok you didn't think Weise earned a spot? I agree that Fedotenko is earning his spot but would it be better, for the long term to give the younger players a shot?

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Old
10-01-2010, 10:14 AM
  #66
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We'll be rebuilding 5 years from now too. It's been a pattern. Before the Jagr era came rolling thru we were told we're rebuilding. Leetch, Graves, etc; we cleaned the house. Now were still rebuilding many many years later. You know what the problem is? Our asset managing is probably the worst in the league and has been for quite some time. The returns we got for some of our players is a joke. Kovalev for one, Leetch another.We choose Josef Balej instead of Tomas Plekanec in the Kovalev deal. On top of that our drafting has been mediocre IMO. Yes we've drafted some good players, but we've really missed out on top end talent in terms of forwards. To be quite honest the only forward prospect that has me excited right now as probably ending up as a top end talent is Stepan.

We've been rebuilding for years. Lundqvist was 23-24 when we started to rebuild. He is now 28. He's not getting any younger.

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Old
10-01-2010, 10:41 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
We'll be rebuilding 5 years from now too. It's been a pattern. Before the Jagr era came rolling thru we were told we're rebuilding.
This building period differs markedly from the pre-Jagr era rebuild.

We actually have pieces to rebuild with now. Earlier, we had none.

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10-01-2010, 11:05 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
This building period differs markedly from the pre-Jagr era rebuild.

We actually have pieces to rebuild with now. Earlier, we had none.
That's an obvious. However again it comes down to what level talent our pool is compared to other teams.

Earlier, according to many scouts and fans; we had just as good a core to build around. Petr Prucha, Montoya, Baranka, Lampman, Korpikoski( who is a solid checking forward), Dominic Moore, Nigel Dawes. Many believed they would all pan out. Gradually and progressively finding out it's not the case. Let's not count our chickens before they hatch.

We could have gotten better pieces back for the Kovalev's and the Leetch's.

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Old
10-01-2010, 11:13 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
staal/mdz
girardi/mcdonough
souray/sauer
vtank
Wow... actually seeing it like that... there's not a thing on earth that can convince me that a D like that isn't a lottery team. If I wanted to tank a season without messing with my forwards, that's the back lines I'd put together.

Also, I've been thrilled with Valentenko. I'm more excited about him than any other D prospect in the system after having watched him. But the last thing he needs is to be a 7th option. The only short comings he has require ice time. Either in the NHL or in the AHL. But he needs to be playing decent minutes.

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10-01-2010, 11:18 AM
  #70
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Staal - Souray
MDZ - Girardi
3rd Pair/7th D Rotation: Gilroy, VTank, Sauer

Sounds better to me. It's tough. I don't want to get rid of Sauer, but I want Gilroy to have another chance. Neither can really be kept as a 7th defenseman. VTank can be sent down, but a pairing of Sauer - Gilroy sounds bad in a lot of ways.

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10-01-2010, 11:23 AM
  #71
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So you guys are replacing Rozsival w/ Souray?? That is probably one of the worst decisions this team can make. Absolutely senseless. Rozsival is everything Souray isnt. Souray has a bomb; but Rozsy doesn't have a weak shot either. Rozsy may not use it often however.

Defensively/vision/passing it's not even up for discussion. wow. Talk about weakening your backline to great extents.

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Old
10-01-2010, 11:25 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
So you guys are replacing Rozsival w/ Souray?? That is probably one of the worst decisions this team can make. Absolutely senseless. Rozsival is everything Souray isnt. Souray has a bomb; but Rozsy doesn't have a weak shot either. Rozsy may not use it often however.

Defensively/vision/passing it's not even up for discussion. wow. Talk about weakening your backline to great extents.
If it gets me a 3rd or 2nd round pick to exchange Rozy and Souray, I'm all for it. If we're in rebuilding mode, why are we going to keep around an aging defenseman when we can get another aging defenseman plus a pick?

You're complaining about being in constant rebuilding mode. As far as I see it, the more picks we have, the more chances to get talent we have.

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10-01-2010, 11:28 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
If it gets me a 3rd or 2nd round pick to exchange Rozy and Souray, I'm all for it. If we're in rebuilding mode, why are we going to keep around an aging defenseman when we can get another aging defenseman plus a pick?

You're complaining about being in constant rebuilding mode. As far as I see it, the more picks we have, the more chances to get talent we have.
We're really not in rebuild. We're 2-3 years away from the peak of the crop of youth we have right now. Dubi, Cally, Lundqvist, Staal, Girardi, MDZ, list goes on

This is not the time for tanking or rebuild. Its build team chemistry, keep infusing youth that deserves it and looks like it can handle the roles we give it, and then open up some money when Drury and Rozy leave for the final pieces in free agency that we will need to make a run.

People talking rebuild already, you gotta be kidding me.

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10-01-2010, 11:32 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
We're really not in rebuild. We're 2-3 years away from the peak of the crop of youth we have right now. Dubi, Cally, Lundqvist, Staal, Girardi, MDZ, list goes on

This is not the time for tanking or rebuild. Its build team chemistry, keep infusing youth that deserves it and looks like it can handle the roles we give it, and then open up some money when Drury and Rozy leave for the final pieces in free agency that we will need to make a run.

People talking rebuild already, you gotta be kidding me.
I'm not talking going full-rebuild. This year should be the end of our rebuild, in my opinion. We have a good core to center around, so why not throw away some of our older pieces that will not be a part of our future for a pick or two? Are you in favor of resigning Rozy after his contract is over? I'm not. Souray's contract ends at the same time. I think it's always worth keeping a steady flow of young talent, we should take advantage of this rare period of time where we're actually drafting good.

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10-01-2010, 11:33 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
That's an obvious. However again it comes down to what level talent our pool is compared to other teams.

Earlier, according to many scouts and fans; we had just as good a core to build around. Petr Prucha, Montoya, Baranka, Lampman, Korpikoski( who is a solid checking forward), Dominic Moore, Nigel Dawes. Many believed they would all pan out. Gradually and progressively finding out it's not the case. Let's not count our chickens before they hatch.
No. There's no comparison. I think that you can't just swap names from that era to this and say it all may end up the same, unless you are very very negative. You have a right to be, if that's the case, but Lampman does not equal Del Zotto. Obviously.

There is a culture change in the organization, there has been a solid core developing. There are superstars signed to long term deals. There is character in the locker room and on the ice.

It is very different.

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