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Dan Girardi ~ setting the record straight ~

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Old
10-01-2010, 09:53 AM
  #1
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Dan Girardi ~ setting the record straight ~

So I have a few infractions and cant look up past threads to continue a discusion I know we've had before. So I figured I'd start this topic for those that were away for the summer and still have no clue as to what Girardi is all about.

I have a little pet peeve going here and it pertains to the undervaluing of Dan Girardi some in Rangerland seem to have for him. Granted he messed up on the Gaborik fight last season but as he said, he was worried and confused about getting in trouble with Tort's becasue at the time the team had been lectured about the rash of recent stupid penalties costing them games. Late in the season he made up for it in the 2 game final set vs. Philly. It's water under the bridge now.

The point I want to bring home is that of Girardi being somehow replaceable outside of getting a top pairing Dman in return through trade. I keep seeing proposals where Girardi is a throw in with little to no value outside of cap filler to facillitate the trade.

Once and for all, I want NYR fans reading this to see the hard numbers of what Girardi brings to the table, and the fact that his salary is pretty decent cap wise and league wise.

Dan Girardi, as compared to other Dmen #'s from the 2009-10 season.

6g, 18a.: Not bad totals, on par with all but the elite top4 Dmen.

-2.: Pretty respectable considering the aniemic scoring output last season.

53 penalty minutes: pretty low for a Dman & very low considering his hits total.

178 hits: makes him 14th in the league as a Dman.

180 blocked shots: Puts him as 6th overall in the league for Dmen.

Lets look at the last few stats, as they are the most important in determining a Dmans worth, well, as a defensman.

Having 180 blocks, and making 178 hits tells me two things, he can play the body without taking penalties (53pim), and he knows when to take the body and when to play the puck, a valuable mental tool in a top defensmens arrsenal. Now couple that with the -2 rating he had playing on an inept scoring team and playing parts of the early season with Redden and now your painting a picture of a Dman that is a little more consistant then most here give him credit for. Then you add the offensive numbers on top and that makes for a solid, and I mean solid 3-4 defenseman on a Cup caliber team, Or in our case, and frankly we are not alone league wide, a legitamate top pair Dman depending on your philosophy of 2 defensive defensmen or 1/1 defensive/offensive defensmen.

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Old
10-01-2010, 09:54 AM
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MorrisWanchuk
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i'm a big fan of dan's and think he's generally undervalued by the fanbase also. i think we'll see an uptick in his offensive production this year

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10-01-2010, 10:01 AM
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I would tend to agree. Say what you want about Staal making him look good or whatnot...but the guy plays serious minutes for us on the backend..and he isn't too shabby at it. Ideally he is a second or third pair guy, but hey, every team needs those right?

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10-01-2010, 10:11 AM
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There's a study floating around that noted Girardi was 10th in the league among defensemen (Staal was 4th) in playing against other teams top players. He's very important. A very solid shutdown defenseman.

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10-01-2010, 10:11 AM
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Girardi is our second best defenseman behind Staal and is absolutely a #3. The way ALL of us underrate him sometimes makes me upset, Danny boy deserves some more recognition, I think I'll make a point of that this season.

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10-01-2010, 10:14 AM
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I think people have a good and thorough understanding of Girardi's assets and what he brings to the team. Although the contract $$ might be a couple hundred thousand more than people were hoping, he certainly helps the team more than hurts it while here, and has never missed a game while a Ranger.

Some people are still struggling with the concept of Rozsival being a very solid defenseman, however. You could do a very similar analysis on Michal.

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10-01-2010, 10:15 AM
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Girardi is great. Hardnosed, hardworking, great at defense, and can chip in some solid offense when he's given the chance. He was a great, great pick-up by Sather for sure. Amazing that he skipped the draft and turned out this good. And let's not forget he has 3 back-to-back 82 game seasons.

And with all that makes him useful, I think his contract is a bargain. He's only had 3 full seasons in the NHL, I have a feeling he'll get even better over the length of his contract.

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10-01-2010, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I think people have a good and thorough understanding of Girardi's assets and what he brings to the team. Although the contract $$ might be a couple hundred thousand more than people were hoping, he certainly helps the team more than hurts it while here, and has never missed a game while a Ranger.

Some people are still struggling with the concept of Rozsival being a very solid defenseman, however. You could do a very similar analysis on Michal.


now that is funny stuff.

very solid. defenseman.

gotcha

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10-01-2010, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post


now that is funny stuff.

very solid. defenseman.

gotcha
Do you like anything about the team or organization? I am trying to wrap my head around why you are here. Are you a Devils fan in disguise? Are you Marty?

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10-01-2010, 10:32 AM
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Excellent thread. Props to the OP.

Fitzy, IMO Girardi has passed Rozsie who can play brilliantly for stretches and then produce some of the most mind-boggling mistakes on back to back plays. Meanwhile, one of Danny boy's best attributes is his consistency.

If the team thinks they can replace Dan from within from the crop of kids on the way up, I wouldn't be against trading him - but only for a solid return. The way he's always dismissed as a throw-in and not worth much more than a 3rd liner in a straight up swap is irritating. Personally, I would much rather see the team move Rozsie and let Girardi continue on here as a home-grown version of the steady veteran defenseman we always talk about bringing in from the outside.

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10-01-2010, 10:33 AM
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Great thread. BlueCollar said everything I'd say.

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10-01-2010, 10:36 AM
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By the way, not to take this too OT, but anyone else see Sauer as becoming basically a bigger version of Girardi (assuming he continues to develop)?

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10-01-2010, 10:37 AM
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As far as Girardi goes, he's a great guy to have, but our playing him against the Ovechkin's and Crosby's of the world is born more from necessity than from merit.

He's done fine with what we've forced him into, though, I still think he works best as a 2nd pair guy.

By the very end of his contract we may or may not want him gone.

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10-01-2010, 10:38 AM
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Girardi is no doubt a solid top#4 defenseman on any NHL team. He is undervalued and might even get better.

In fact.. the whole Rangers defense from top to bottom looks real solid.

Staal- legit top pairing defenseman
MDZ- already a legit top #4 defenseman and only going to get better. He looks to be a star real soon.
Rozy- legit top #3 or #4 NHL defenseman
Girardi- legit top #4 NHL defenseman on any team
Eminger- experienced NHL defenseman who can play bottom pair minutes
Gilroy- has legit NHL skills/talent and can play in the NHL. He looks good this preseason and could get even better
McD- looks to be a similar player to Girardi which is a good thing.
VTank- Great size, looks also to be a Girardi/McD type of player
Sauer- same as VTank

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10-01-2010, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
As far as Girardi goes, he's a great guy to have, but our playing him against the Ovechkin's and Crosby's of the world is born more from necessity than from merit.

He's done fine with what we've forced him into, though, I still think he works best as a 2nd pair guy.

By the very end of his contract we may or may not want him gone.
Yeah but by then, if all goes to plan, McD and a bunch of the other kids should either be a couple of seasons into a pro career or well on their way.

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10-01-2010, 10:42 AM
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To me the Gaborik fight is a non-issue.

Gaborik isn't a baby. He should be fighting, but he also should be able to stand up for himself.

I don't blame Girardi. I blame Carcillo for fighting someone who doesn't fight.

Girardi is a solid hockey player. He's at market value. He's young. And he's definitely a part of the long term solution. He's a smart kid with a good head on his shoulders. A good character guy.

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10-01-2010, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
MDZ- already a legit top #4 defenseman and only going to get better. He looks to be a star real soon.
I have to disagree with you here. MDZ's defensive zone play is still 3rd pairing at best and AHL level at worst.

He really was forced into top 4 at the end of last year, because of Redden's poor play and the fact that playing he and Gilroy together on the 3rd pair was also occasionally disastrous.

He is a great PP specialist and puck mover for us, but i sure as hell never want to see him playing top 4 minutes on the PK again.

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10-01-2010, 10:44 AM
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Do you like anything about the team or organization? I am trying to wrap my head around why you are here. Are you a Devils fan in disguise? Are you Marty?
i dislike very little but what i do dislike i dislike alot.

dislike list

torts the clown. didnt want, dont like, dont want.
blowzsy. bad.
capt quaalude. see rozy.
the devils- ok, so im not marty

thats pretty much it.

im not a huge dubi guy- but used properly, hes serviceable and i dont care for boogaard and his 4 yr contract at all.

other than that. its all good.

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10-01-2010, 10:51 AM
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He is Jersey worthy.
And my favorite Ranger on the team, next to Cally.

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10-01-2010, 10:53 AM
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Girardi's an FA in 2014. By then, the only D man on contract is Staal. You figure he's still a 1D at that point, should be in his prime. Hopefully McD develops into a top pairing D man like it sounds he'll be. Sounded like everyone had good things to say about Pashnin during camp this year, so hopefully by then he's developed enough by then. Same with VTank, as some people feel he could be called up at some point this year. Then you have McIlrath, who will most likely be NHL ready in 3 years. MDZ will continue to develop and still be our PP QB. Would Girardi at that point in his career want to be kept on as a 7th D man?

Staal/McDonagh
Valentenko/Del Zotto
Pashnin/McIlrath

Girardi

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10-01-2010, 11:01 AM
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HockeyBasedNYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
=

Dan Girardi, as compared to other Dmen #'s from the 2009-10 season.

6g, 18a.: Not bad totals, on par with all but the elite top4 Dmen.

-2.: Pretty respectable considering the aniemic scoring output last season.

53 penalty minutes: pretty low for a Dman & very low considering his hits total.

178 hits: makes him 14th in the league as a Dman.

180 blocked shots: Puts him as 6th overall in the league for Dmen.

.
Some of your assumptions are correct. I'm a Girardi fan - but I have to offer this, as I do with all stat related arguments. Take it with a grain of salt, because for those stats I bolded - the MSG statistician crew are notorious for recording high numbers for. Realtime stat records are extremely subjective around the league, and some teams like Buffalo think hits are only when you pummel someone through the glass.

Case in point.

The Rangers were 2nd in the league with 2,330 Hits last year. Not one time did any pregame, home, visitor or national telecast mention that the Rangers are a tough, hardnosed checking team. The truth is that they are almost the exact opposite in reputation.

The Buffalo Sabres, similar in style comparison were 30th in the league with almost 1,000 hits less. 1,000 less Hits. Those stats are obviously skewed. I like to point this out because a lot of people base their arguments on these real time stats. \\

This is just one example. Search NHL real time team stats and you'll get an idea of the tendencies each teams stat crew has.

That aside, I think Girardi is a solid defenseman. The problem is hes playing as a #2 when he really is a 3-4-5 on other teams. He is what he is. But i do think hes worth more than some of the posters here believe.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 10-01-2010 at 11:12 AM.
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Old
10-01-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
i dislike very little but what i do dislike i dislike alot.

dislike list

torts the clown. didnt want, dont like, dont want.
blowzsy. bad.
capt quaalude. see rozy.
the devils- ok, so im not marty

thats pretty much it.

im not a huge dubi guy- but used properly, hes serviceable and i dont care for boogaard and his 4 yr contract at all.

other than that. its all good.
Well..I guess that's not much...fair enough...

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10-01-2010, 11:09 AM
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The Gaborik thing was unacceptable any way you look at it. I don't care if Carcillo is at fault, or Gabby for dropping his gloves. You just can't let anyone, let alone a complete scum bag like Carcillo do that to your star player.

It just can't happen. I don't hold grudges though, but that is something that bothered me at the time.

As far as his play goes, I've always thought he was undervalued. But again, he's like Rozsival in the sense where when he's bad it's painfully obvious and that's what the novice sees.

Rozsival's mistakes are so obvious my mother could point them out, and she doesn't even know what hockey is.

Girardi's play tends to go into stretches, and he has had some brutal ones.

Like most on this roster, I think he's solid and a good player to have, it's just unfortunate we have to ask these guys to play above their talent level most times.

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10-01-2010, 11:13 AM
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Read the entire post, most of the following reply's and I have come to the following conclusion.....

Trade Dan Girardi to San Jose for Ryane Clowe

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Old
10-01-2010, 11:28 AM
  #25
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Read the entire post, most of the following reply's and I have come to the following conclusion.....

Trade Dan Girardi to San Jose for Ryane Clowe
As much as that is a reasonable proposal if we had a replacement for Girardi, which we do not at this point. Your going to get the arguement from SJ fans that Clowe is on the 1st line this year with JT and Marleau. And we all know how SJ fans get about proposals given the many Staal facepalms.

Then again, I was hopeful this thread wasnt going in the 5 pages of proposals and retorts direction.

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