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Clowe and/or Couture and/or Greiss for 2 top 4 defensemen

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Old
09-30-2010, 11:01 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz View Post
Enstrom is a no. 1 defenseman. What makes you think you can get him for a 2nd liner and a kid with potential. Clowe and Couture combined isn't going to command Enstrom, and you have the nerve to laugh at my proposal.
Couture is a top prospect in the NHL. Clowe is a 2nd liner. If we get rid of the 2, we have the worst prospect pool in the NHL, and a big hole in our top-6. Enstrom, while great, has had one great year, and 2 average years where he was a solid #4 defenseman. Is he a 50 point #1 defenseman, or a good #4 defenseman who can play as a #3? Oduya is arguably a #4 defenseman, and is pretty overpaid. We take back salary in that deal, and I think it's pretty fair. Maybe I'm a bit biased, but you're biased in proposing Hainsey+Oduya.

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09-30-2010, 11:31 PM
  #77
Peter Sidorkiewicz
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Originally Posted by JPavs8Clutchy View Post
Couture is a top prospect in the NHL. Clowe is a 2nd liner. If we get rid of the 2, we have the worst prospect pool in the NHL, and a big hole in our top-6. Enstrom, while great, has had one great year, and 2 average years where he was a solid #4 defenseman. Is he a 50 point #1 defenseman, or a good #4 defenseman who can play as a #3? Oduya is arguably a #4 defenseman, and is pretty overpaid. We take back salary in that deal, and I think it's pretty fair. Maybe I'm a bit biased, but you're biased in proposing Hainsey+Oduya.
Enstrom has been very good for all of his season in Atlanta, he is the real deal. He busted out offensively last year because the coach finally gave him no. 1 PP time after Hainsey ran the PP the year before.

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10-01-2010, 12:02 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by JPavs8Clutchy View Post
Couture is a top prospect in the NHL. Clowe is a 2nd liner. If we get rid of the 2, we have the worst prospect pool in the NHL, and a big hole in our top-6. Enstrom, while great, has had one great year, and 2 average years where he was a solid #4 defenseman. Is he a 50 point #1 defenseman, or a good #4 defenseman who can play as a #3? Oduya is arguably a #4 defenseman, and is pretty overpaid. We take back salary in that deal, and I think it's pretty fair. Maybe I'm a bit biased, but you're biased in proposing Hainsey+Oduya.
With Doherty, Stalock, Fierrero and Coyle im not totally sure about that, but i agree, Couture is going nowhere

The Gunnarson for Couture proposals need to stop. No sharks fan with a brain would do that

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10-01-2010, 12:19 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by JPavs8Clutchy View Post
Couture is a top prospect in the NHL. Clowe is a 2nd liner. If we get rid of the 2, we have the worst prospect pool in the NHL, and a big hole in our top-6. Enstrom, while great, has had one great year, and 2 average years where he was a solid #4 defenseman. Is he a 50 point #1 defenseman, or a good #4 defenseman who can play as a #3? Oduya is arguably a #4 defenseman, and is pretty overpaid. We take back salary in that deal, and I think it's pretty fair. Maybe I'm a bit biased, but you're biased in proposing Hainsey+Oduya.
Blame the OP. He set up the deal, Pete Sid just filled in the variables. But yes, Enstrom is frigging amazing. He just plays on a historically bad team that gets no press. I would be surprised if he didn't make the ASG this year -- okay, no I wouldn't since ATL always gets shafted in popularity contests. He's definitely better than Mike Greene.

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10-01-2010, 12:28 AM
  #80
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Never mind the other guys in the OP, give me Couture for Bieksa and Aaron Rome. And before you say who? to Rome, the guy was for a stretch probably better than Bieksa last season, and is a pretty solid player. Neither are probably top-4 defenseman, but that's probably about as close as you'd get to acquiring two (and I doubt SJ gives up Couture for those two anyways...)

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10-01-2010, 01:02 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Never mind the other guys in the OP, give me Couture for Bieksa and Aaron Rome. And before you say who? to Rome, the guy was for a stretch probably better than Bieksa last season, and is a pretty solid player. Neither are probably top-4 defenseman, but that's probably about as close as you'd get to acquiring two (and I doubt SJ gives up Couture for those two anyways...)
Never mind the OP. Most Sharks fans only want ONE top 4 defenseman.

And yes, there is no way we'd trade Couture for Bieska+.

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10-01-2010, 01:04 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Never mind the other guys in the OP, give me Couture for Bieksa and Aaron Rome. And before you say who? to Rome, the guy was for a stretch probably better than Bieksa last season, and is a pretty solid player. Neither are probably top-4 defenseman, but that's probably about as close as you'd get to acquiring two (and I doubt SJ gives up Couture for those two anyways...)
It seems like you are demanding us to do that.

Rome is an enforcer and Bieksa sucks. Not in a million years do we trade a top prospect for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatschoonerrat View Post
Blame the OP. He set up the deal, Pete Sid just filled in the variables. But yes, Enstrom is frigging amazing. He just plays on a historically bad team that gets no press. I would be surprised if he didn't make the ASG this year -- okay, no I wouldn't since ATL always gets shafted in popularity contests. He's definitely better than Mike Greene.
LOL. You're being an insane homer. Enstrom>Green? Really? Are you being serious? Mike Green is a top-5 defenseman and I'd argue that until he doubles up his success, Enstrom isn't top-10.

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10-01-2010, 01:18 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by JPavs8Clutchy View Post
It seems like you are demanding us to do that.

Rome is an enforcer and Bieksa sucks. Not in a million years do we trade a top prospect for that.



LOL. You're being an insane homer. Enstrom>Green? Really? Are you being serious? Mike Green is a top-5 defenseman and I'd argue that until he doubles up his success, Enstrom isn't top-10.
Enstrom is very good in his own end, Green is not. If you rank their offensive and defensive games out of 10 you'll find that Enstrom and Green would score very close.

I would rate Enstrom a definate top 15 defensman in NHL and judging by his continued improvement over his career thus far in each season, could be a top 10 defenseman by the end of the season.

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10-01-2010, 01:20 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
Wanted: Winning powerball ticket. Anyone got one they're not interested in cashing??
Not that your offering crap, but who has two top four dmen they're looking to get rid of that aren't old, don't make too much money, or don't play like top 4 dmen anymore? Guys like the ones you're looking for are tough to come by, you're not going to see teams just giving them away no matter what the return.
yep, pretty much.

another fantasy scenario--

3 way trade

to SJ: bieksa, SOB (young enough, cheap enough, if you squint really really hard they just might seem like top 4 material)

to NAS: clowe, couture, greiss (if it fits their internal cap, this gives them much needed character, sandpaper, and depth up front and at the relatively small cost of a young d-man, of which they have many. also, do they even have a backup for rinne?)

to VAN: franson (make out like bandits)

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10-01-2010, 01:28 AM
  #85
matt trick
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
yep, pretty much.

another fantasy scenario--

3 way trade

to SJ: bieksa, SOB (young enough, cheap enough, if you squint really really hard they just might seem like top 4 material)

to NAS: clowe, couture, greiss (if it fits their internal cap, this gives them much needed character, sandpaper, and depth up front and at the relatively small cost of a young d-man, of which they have many. also, do they even have a backup for rinne?)

to VAN: franson (make out like bandits)
Get a clue.

San Jose gives up the two most valuable assets and receives arguably the two least valuable.

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10-01-2010, 01:31 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
yep, pretty much.

another fantasy scenario--

3 way trade

to SJ: bieksa, SOB (young enough, cheap enough, if you squint really really hard they just might seem like top 4 material)

to NAS: clowe, couture, greiss (if it fits their internal cap, this gives them much needed character, sandpaper, and depth up front and at the relatively small cost of a young d-man, of which they have many. also, do they even have a backup for rinne?)

to VAN: franson (make out like bandits)
Wow, just wow...

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10-01-2010, 01:36 AM
  #87
vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
Get a clue.

San Jose gives up the two most valuable assets and receives arguably the two least valuable.
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Originally Posted by JPavs8Clutchy View Post
Wow, just wow...
what part of "fantasy scenario" did you guys not understand?

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10-01-2010, 02:13 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
what part of "fantasy scenario" did you guys not understand?
The part where people mistook fantasy hockey for your fantasy. For Bieska's cap hit and injury history a lot of teams wouldn't even take him for free right now.

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10-01-2010, 03:04 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Never mind the other guys in the OP, give me Couture for Bieksa and Aaron Rome. And before you say who? to Rome, the guy was for a stretch probably better than Bieksa last season, and is a pretty solid player. Neither are probably top-4 defenseman, but that's probably about as close as you'd get to acquiring two (and I doubt SJ gives up Couture for those two anyways...)
Never mind that, give me Edler for Nichol and Mayers.

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10-01-2010, 03:32 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
yep, pretty much.

another fantasy scenario--

3 way trade

to SJ: bieksa, SOB (young enough, cheap enough, if you squint really really hard they just might seem like top 4 material)

to NAS: clowe, couture, greiss (if it fits their internal cap, this gives them much needed character, sandpaper, and depth up front and at the relatively small cost of a young d-man, of which they have many. also, do they even have a backup for rinne?)

to VAN: franson (make out like bandits)

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10-01-2010, 05:30 AM
  #91
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For all the Bieksa bashing around here, he is for sure top 4 material for our defense, as it is. I'd love him on the Sharks. And he's not injury prone, he's just been really unlucky twice, that's it.

I'd also do Greiss and Clowe for Hainsey and Oduya, but that's just me maybe. I'm also never going to be confortable with Murray on a top 4 role. He's a great guy, mean and gritty, but maybe just one of the best lower pairing D's in the league. I wonder where he would fit on most teams (not counting Anaheim, Islanders (now) and the other dreadful defenses).

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10-01-2010, 11:20 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by JPavs8Clutchy View Post
Value wise, I think it's fair if you make that 1st a 2nd, and take out the "x" from the Rangers side.

Salary cap wise, it does ..... {work} if we trade Murray and Huskins for draft picks, and then add some cheap fowards on the bottom-6.
.... .I don't know if the Rangers would take it though...
Thanks.
Since cap relief is a primary motivation, and we have enough guys who can adequately or better fill those spots, it would make enough sense to settle for less. Otherwise, I do think something more than a second is warranted (although we are getting closer since you gave back the two 4s).

Not to push a deal breaker, but a conditionally upgradeable 2 based upon certain targets for Rosi-Girardi and/or reduction in team goals against by SJS as basis to upgrade would narrow any perceived difference even further.

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10-01-2010, 11:24 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Would need to be a first. Either that, or add in a decent prospect.

I'm not a Girardi fan, but the Rangers love him and I think he has a lot more value around the league than I give him credit for.
Agree w/where you're coming from as the pair should be more than just one second.
However, salary cap space is at a premium, and that should not be overlooked.

Pls note my compromise about an upgradeable 2nd, but I make this deal anyway even if SJS does not upgrade.


Last edited by bernmeister: 10-01-2010 at 11:26 AM. Reason: content clarification
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Old
10-01-2010, 12:37 PM
  #94
vadim sharifijanov
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The part where people mistook fantasy hockey for your fantasy. For Bieska's cap hit and injury history a lot of teams wouldn't even take him for free right now.
okay, i give.

the joke behind my post, which is pretty clear for those of us not raised in the american public school system, is that i posted a ridiculous and implausable trade scenario that benefits my team (vancouver) that is just as likely to happen as san jose getting two young, cheap legit top 4 d-men for clowe, couture, and greiss.

seriously, did i really need to add five stupid smileys to the end of

Quote:
young enough, cheap enough, if you squint really really hard they just might seem like top 4 material
and

Quote:
make out like bandits
to make my point?

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10-01-2010, 01:07 PM
  #95
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okay, i give.

the joke behind my post, which is pretty clear for those of us not raised in the american public school system,
I know a fun game it's called generalize an entire countries educational system based off of one or two individuals!

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10-01-2010, 01:34 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by JPavs8Clutchy View Post
Rome is an enforcer and Bieksa sucks.


Bieksa may suck (*defensively*) but Rome is hardly "an enforcer". He's your typical 3rd pairing defenseman who might not have upside but only makes $750,000 for the next two years.

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10-01-2010, 01:43 PM
  #97
luiginb
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i posted a ridiculous and implausable trade scenario that benefits my team (vancouver) that is just as likely to happen as san jose getting two young, cheap legit top 4 d-men for clowe, couture, and greiss.
Give me a fair break here. 2 second pairing guys that are 34 and paid 4 million each fit my description.

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