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Old
10-01-2010, 01:42 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
That's the problem in this D.....We need someone better to play with MArkov
No we dont it's usually redundant to pair 2 all-star dmen together. Niedermayer and Pronger didnt play together, Rafalski and Lidstrom dont, Campbell and Keith dont, Timmomen and Pronger dont, etc. You just need a capable D man who can feed the all-star and cover for him when he takes risks. Spacek or Gorges are fine to do this.

2 strong pairings are better than just 1 super strong pairings cuz then you have strong D men on for 75% (or more) of the game.

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10-01-2010, 01:44 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
No we dont it's usually redundant to pair 2 all-star dmen together. Niedermayer and Pronger didnt play together, Rafalski and Lidstrom dont, Campbell and Keith dont, Timmomen and Pronger dont, etc. You just need a capable D man who can feed the all-star and cover for him when he takes risks. Spacek or Gorges are fine to do this.

2 strong pairings are better than just 1 super strong pairings cuz then you have strong D men on for 75% (or more) of the game.
Keith and Seabrook didn't play on the same pair.......wait they did

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Originally Posted by Ketzlaf View Post
Why go for scrubs? I'd rather have Doughty.
You are right......my bad. I was trying to keep it somewhat realistic but realized that it's impossible. Doughty is a stud.

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Old
10-01-2010, 01:47 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
Keith and Seabrook didn't play on the same pair.......wait they did
His point is you're first paring doesn't have to be 2 all-stars. Yes some teams do but it's not something you need

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10-01-2010, 01:48 PM
  #29
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Play four forwards and no goalie They can't boo Price if he's on the bench and Gorges and Gill play goalie
Maybe Price could suit up as a dman....

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Old
10-01-2010, 01:52 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
Pitkanen, Coburn, Edler, S.Weber, Seabrooks, Tyutin just to name a few.
The bold is one of my fav.
Obviously Weber is the best of that bunch. I think it'd be impossible to grab a guy of his caliber and age on the trade market for anything less than a maniacal overpayment.

Seabrook and Edler (and players of their caliber and age) would be almost as difficult to grab as a stud like Weber. Youngish but proven players like that are valuable assets that are still improving, so teams aren't going to move them unless there's a huge need to (like personal issues, or some other factor that would cause a GM to panic). As a result, getting a d-man of this caliber would most likely require a fairly large overpayment at this point in the season.

The Coburns and Tyutins of the league would be available at the right price. However, would the cost of acquiring one of those guys be worth the minimal upgrade they're going to give you over Spacek or Hamr? When you bring cap considerations into it, Spacek and Hamrlik are immovable, so the salary moved to upgrade the D would have to come from somewhere else.

The Habs don't have the perfect defense by any means but they do have a solid defense suited to fulfill every necessary role. A stud defender in both ends (Markov), that will play massive minutes. Two strong offensive/PP guys (Markov and Subban). Two amazing defensive/PK guys (Gill and Gorges). Two guys that can eat minutes and play supporting roles if needed on both special teams (Hamr and Spacek). Plus a flawed, but capable tough number 7 guy in O'B.

The fact that the Habs have an amazing defensive pairing in Gill/Gorges that is technically their bottom pairing on paper really lessens the need to upgrade the positional depth at D for this season. Acquiring a second pairing guy wouldn't be improving either special teams group to any great extent (barring any injuries), so the only real upgrade would be at even strength minutes.

When all this is considered, a guy like Pitkanen/Coburn/Tyutin brings defensive depth to the team and should boost the second unit of the PP but none of those guys is going to be anything more than a marginal upgrade over either aging Czech on a one-year basis.

I'm not the biggest fan of either Hamr or Spacek, but this team is stuck with both on a short term basis. Maybe injuries or other factors will change things down the line this season, but I really don't see any significant addition being needed on D before the trade deadline. There's going to be a shift in the defense with Hamr's contract being up at the end of the season, but I'm highly doubting we'll see it before then.

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Old
10-01-2010, 02:04 PM
  #31
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one of the main probleme is the fact that Spacek didn't play like he was suppose to.....he was signed to reenforce our top 4, but now he's the guy we sould replace but this time we need a stud at defence not a veteran.....

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10-01-2010, 02:11 PM
  #32
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one of the main probleme is the fact that Spacek didn't play like he was suppose to.....he was signed to reenforce our top 4, but now he's the guy we sould replace but this time we need a stud at defence not a veteran.....
Very true. If Spacek was a 12 goal 30 assist guy....and played a solid defensive game...we wouldn't have a problem with the D. The fact that he regressed big time but is still making good coin hurts. I'd love Souray, even with his defensive blunders....but that's not going to happen.

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10-01-2010, 02:15 PM
  #33
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Many good theories saying we can managed with what we got but personally, I'm not sold on it. Yes I have dreams of getting certain players and I also know the realty that most would cost us more then we could aford......but something has to be doable and getting a stud has to be possible.
We may not need an other star but we need something better then Spacek. Has for Hamrlik, let's keep him and see what happens once UFA hits. Honestly, I would rather have Carle playing with Markov then Spacek ....well maybe not but close.

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Old
10-01-2010, 02:32 PM
  #34
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The issue with Spacek and Hamrlik is both are aging number 4 D-men. As much as I hate to say it but we still haven't replaced Komisarek, Markov last year played with O'B, and I think this year he will most likely play with Spacek. A poster on page 1 brought up the name Matt Greene out in LA, he would be perfect righthanded stay at home D-man, I wish we had the money to sign Michalek, he would have been perfect. But I hope next offseason he use the Hamrlik money to sign a stud d-man and hopeful find a taker for Spacek and find someone else. Also I figured that Gill won't be resigned after this year, thinking O'B would be ready to be a full time 6th D-man to play with Gorges, but im starting to think more and more than O'B is finished.

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Old
10-01-2010, 03:18 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
Keith and Seabrook didn't play on the same pair.......wait they did
Seabrook is a product of Keith who has become well known from this osmosis process, he is nowhere near the same class of Dman. Calling them equals is ridiculous.

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Old
10-01-2010, 03:41 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
Hamrlik yes but Spacek......no.
Yes and yes, and Spacek more than Hamrlik.

He's being hailed as a pot of turd but you could make the argument he was more effective than Hammer last year. The problem is, aesthetically his game looks terrible. But it still gets the puck moving in the right direction and it still gets the scoring chances headed the right way (well, relative to the five-on-five-challenged Habs, of course).

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
Alright and I want to see Nash,Parise, Gaborik next to Plekanec
It explains a lot though. When he said he wanted a top-4 D-man, I thought he meant a #4 on the depth chart, not "top-4 in NHL"...

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Old
10-01-2010, 03:46 PM
  #37
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I haven't seen any PS games so I am asking about Spacek based on what I'm hearing. What I am reading/hearing begs this question. Does Spacek miss Hamrlik?

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10-01-2010, 03:48 PM
  #38
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It would be asanine to make a move at this point until we see how the defense looks with everybody healthy.

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Old
10-01-2010, 03:48 PM
  #39
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I think Gorges should be Markov's partner personally, because he doesn't need to be babysat and that would free Markov up to play without having to clean up messes like he had with, say, O'Byrne. Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me to see Picard pick up O'B's #7 role. The only time O'B gets results that are any good is when he's with #79, but he only does so by acting as a boat anchor for Markov.

But if Gorges goes with Markov and creates a real top-4 pairing, someone else would need to haul Gill around, and I'm not sure it's fair to ask Subban to do that. And you want to take Gill out because, while his 5-on-5 effectiveness is entirely dependent on relaxed playoff officiating, he still is an hellacious penalty-killer.

In any case, the Hamrlik-Spacek pairing was probably the team's best all year and the only one that's definitely not likely to be a problem. I wonder if they'll break it up and go Markov-Spacek and Hamrlik-Subban though?

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Old
10-01-2010, 03:51 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
I haven't seen any PS games so I am asking about Spacek based on what I'm hearing. What I am reading/hearing begs this question. Does Spacek miss Hamrlik?
Spacek misses playing with other NHL D-men. He's also not doing very well personally, though, you can tell it's pre-season by the rookie risks he takes. He was getting better until last game, but then everyone was awful last game, it looked like the December-2009 Habs it was so bad.

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Old
10-01-2010, 03:51 PM
  #41
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And what would people say to adding a big, mean, solid skating/positional dman, who is young, a leader, and available for only 700k more than we pay spacek? Oh, and he won't cost any assets and he likes playing in Montreal...


Would anyone say no?

Didn't think so...

Now let's hear again about how wise gainey was to let Komi walk and replace him with spacek :

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Old
10-01-2010, 03:54 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Now let's hear again about how wise gainey was to let Komi walk and replace him with spacek :
Because, to put it simply, Spacek is better than Komisarek.

And at the money Toronto is paying him, I wouldn't want Komisarek.

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Old
10-01-2010, 03:55 PM
  #43
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Spacek didn't have a great year last year but that happens with defencemen. Look for him to have a bounce back year. He's a guy that can definitely play big minutes and should line up with Markov once he's back leaving Hamrlik and Subban to play together.

Don't forget about Ryan O'Byrne too. Although it's a stretch, he may develop into a Komisarek-like player and Markov Komisarek was a very good first pair (the one year).

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Old
10-01-2010, 04:03 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by goman View Post
Don't forget about Ryan O'Byrne too. Although it's a stretch, he may develop into a Komisarek-like player and Markov Komisarek was a very good first pair (the one year).
O'Byrne needs to develop really quick if he wants to get out of the #7 role. I think he's getting passed by, not just by Subban, but by guys like Weber as well.

And Markov can make a pretty good first pair out of himself plus most NHL D-men.

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Old
10-01-2010, 04:03 PM
  #45
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You take Hamrlik's 5,5 M, and sign a proven D.

Here's a little list of possible UFA D in 2011 :
-Chara (34)
-Kaberle (33)
-Jovanovski (35)
-Hannan (32)
-Brewer (32)
-Pitkanen (28)
-Bieksa (30)
-McCabe (36)
-Erhoff (29)
-Phillips (33)
-White (27).
(Age in 2011)
Who do you thin could be interesting?

Note : Chara is looking for a long contrat till 45 years old

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Old
10-01-2010, 04:03 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Spacek misses playing with other NHL D-men. He's also not doing very well personally, though, you can tell it's pre-season by the rookie risks he takes. He was getting better until last game, but then everyone was awful last game, it looked like the December-2009 Habs it was so bad.
Thanks..............

Honestly I think Spacek will be okay once he's back with Hamrlik or Markov. In the playoffs he was a hero and now is a zero after some PS games.

I'd prefer to just wait until the D is healthy, if of course that could happen for even 5minutes, before a move is made.

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Old
10-01-2010, 04:10 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
I'd prefer to just wait until the D is healthy, if of course that could happen for even 5minutes, before a move is made.
What worries me is the possibility that neither Hamrlik and Markov are available to start the season, Martin doesn't split up Gorges-Gill, and Spacek is expected to carry a rookie and be a first-pairing D-man at the same time.

It could get ugly quickly as all Spatch could do in that situation is try to keep the ship from sinking too fast. And I doubt the extreme difficulty of this assignment would register with the fans -- Spacek is good, but he's no Markov, and even Markov would have trouble with that situation.

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Old
10-01-2010, 04:14 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Thanks..............

Honestly I think Spacek will be okay once he's back with Hamrlik or Markov. In the playoffs he was a hero and now is a zero after some PS games.

I'd prefer to just wait until the D is healthy, if of course that could happen for even 5minutes, before a move is made.
He never been a Hero. And his spot now is to play on the 3rd duo and on the PP (no PK)...but Markov can't play with Subban, so we have a spot on the first pairing and we can only put there Spacek (but he is not number 2 D)

Markov - Spacek (I'd prefer Gorges, but Gill Spacek would be TERRIBLE)
Hamrlik - Subban
Gill - Gorges

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Old
10-01-2010, 04:34 PM
  #49
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Because, to put it simply, Spacek is better than Komisarek.

And at the money Toronto is paying him, I wouldn't want Komisarek.
Spacek WAS better than Komi... Sure.

But right now? next year? I'd take Komi in an instant...

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Old
10-01-2010, 04:43 PM
  #50
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are you serious?

Komisarek has been injury plagued for the last 2 seasons, and fairly bad when he has gone onto the ice.

There are serious questions to if he will ever return to form, or if it was all just an illusion due to comfort with Markov? Beauchemin hasnt looked so hot either since that playoff run with Niedermayer.

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