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Would you want Souray if he was on re-entry waivers?

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Old
10-01-2010, 12:12 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by fcb51 View Post
I was, and will always remember Souray in Montreal fondly, but I can never forget this move...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy0pXTnx85Q
In Souray's defense, it was Spezza and not Kilger

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10-01-2010, 12:14 PM
  #77
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You guys forget that he would be 1/2 price this year only
I like Souray and he is much better then MAB in terms of Defense but I'm not sold at that price tag for the rest of his contract. Also If MAB was better the Souray on the defense part of the game, he would have a long term deal in place with some team out there...garenti.

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10-01-2010, 12:17 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by fcb51 View Post
I was, and will always remember Souray in Montreal fondly, but I can never forget this move...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy0pXTnx85Q
I guess Chara is a bad Dman


Guys with skills can make you look like........
the vid is supposed to be Chara getting undress by Kovalev

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10-01-2010, 12:26 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Please. Souray is worse defensively than MAB? With all due respect, are you out of your mind?
So the guy who can't even skate is somehow better defensively then the guy who actually can? With all due respect as well, you'd have to be out of your mind to think Souray > MAB defensively.

Being physical after a whistle or fighting doesn't make you better defensively, the guys a pylon out there and he's on the decline. At least MAB might have the potential to improve slightly.

Nobody gets beat 1 on 1 worse than Sheldon Souray out of any NHL D who gets paid over 1 million and isn't a fringe NHLer. Heck he isn't even in a position to haul the guy down and take the good penalty, at least MAB would be, MAB doesn't get burned in the same way Souray constantly does. He makes way poorer decisions maybe but he doesn't get burned so badly that breakaways happen all the time because of him. Sometimes yes but with Souray it's constantly.

Sure he brings other stuff to the table but so does MAB. He fits out team because he's fast, Souray is slow as hell. But just because he's physical doesn't make him better defensively than MAB. 90% of the time when he's physical it's after the whistle blows, hardly helpful imo.

Plus MAB can play forward too, he's more versatile and given that he's bad defensively that's definitely an asset to have. Souray is Souray, a pylon who is on the decline, won't ever reach his golden year again and was lucky to have it in the first place. Frankly I don't see how anyone would take him over MAB, all opinions aside at the end of the day people can believe whatever they want about either of their defensive games but both of them allow about the same amount of mistakes to happen so regardless of if Souray is slightly better or MAB is slightly better, MAB fits our team better, is younger, faster, can play forward and actually brings more to the table than Souray does. Souray is injury prone and having to salary tied up to him even if he goes on LTI is still pretty wasteful being that you could've just signed somebody more reliable.

If you really think Souray is better than MAB all I can say is MAB is just more fresh in your mind than Souray is and you don't realize just how much the guys declined since leaving here.


Last edited by neofury*: 10-01-2010 at 12:35 PM.
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10-01-2010, 12:35 PM
  #80
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2.7 m for souray sounds ok ... but it would be his full salary as soon as next year, and if only to avoid that situation... I wouldn't do it. (correct me if im wrong with the underlined part)

other than that... Its very hard to read the debate on who's the better defender between hammer and sourray. Really , there's no debate ; Its hammer all the way. We can agree hammer had a meh season last year... but he still post around 30 points every year. Would having a PP specialist that could maybe get 20 pts more be worth all the other aspects of the game... ?

and still ... MAB at 700k before souray at 2.7m

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10-01-2010, 12:38 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
I would take Souray any day of the week at $2.7 for the next two seasons.

But obviously we would have to rid ourselves of one of Hamrlik/Spacek.
I would take him at anything under 4M. granted that he would accept being a 3rd-4th man... not a 1st-2nd.

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10-01-2010, 12:41 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Sure he brings other stuff to the table but so does MAB. He fits out team because he's fast, Souray is slow as hell. But just because he's physical doesn't make him better defensively than MAB. 90% of the time when he's physical it's after the whistle blows, hardly helpful imo.

Plus MAB can play forward too, he's more versatile and given that he's bad defensively that's definitely an asset to have. .
more importantly; MAB knew his role and accepted it.

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10-01-2010, 01:08 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
more importantly; MAB knew his role and accepted it.
I can understand why people think I'm crazy saying MAB is better than Souray defensively.

1) We had MAB more recently (fresher failures in your mind)
2) People have had a hard on for Souray since he left
3) He's better offensively than MAB so people just think "better".

But sorry to say it just isn't the case. My memory isn't vague on Souray and I've seen him play on Edmonton, he's terrible even by comparison to MAB.

The difference between MAB and Souray defensively:

Souray > MAB when it comes to decision making, he's smarter with the puck, a better pass receiver, etc.

MAB > Souray when it comes to speed, actually having a chance to make a difference as he's actually a part of the play and not 10 feet away from where it's happening.

If you aren't even in the play you can't be much of a defenseman at least MAB has speed to do something even if he does make more mistakes in terms of controlling/handling the puck.

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10-01-2010, 01:13 PM
  #84
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neofury you can write however many essays you want - saying that MAB is better defensively than Souray is just flatout absurd. MAB is one of the worst defenseman I've ever seen in the NHL, and I'm not exaggerating. Souray isn't great either obviously, but he has ten times the hockey sense that MAB does. Then again, so does a fence post.

Also - "MAB can play forward too"? Come on. The only reason he can "play forward" is because that's where the Habs stuck him. The exact same thing could be done with Souray too (not that I'm advocating the Habs picking him up either).

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10-01-2010, 01:17 PM
  #85
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I'd take him on re-entry but only if he wants to come back.

He's not as bad defensively as advertised, and he's still a good 2nd pairing guy and a 3rd pairing guy on a great team.

This division is quite physical with Burke trying to make the leafs more truculent, and the bruins beefing up even more with horton. Ottawa is rugged too, while the sabres have a couple players that like to run around.

It wouldnt be a bad idea for the habs to add a stand up guy who takes no nonsense with a lethal PP shot to produce.

I'm guessing he cost about 2.75 mil? But does the 5.5mil cap hit become the responsibility of the habs too? That wouldnt work at all, but from a strictly hockey point of view, I dont even think twice about it, Souray helps this team.

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10-01-2010, 01:19 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
2.7 m for souray sounds ok ... but it would be his full salary as soon as next year, and if only to avoid that situation... I wouldn't do it. (correct me if im wrong with the underlined part)

other than that... Its very hard to read the debate on who's the better defender between hammer and sourray. Really , there's no debate ; Its hammer all the way. We can agree hammer had a meh season last year... but he still post around 30 points every year. Would having a PP specialist that could maybe get 20 pts more be worth all the other aspects of the game... ?

and still ... MAB at 700k before souray at 2.7m
full salary the following season? That's not good at all. Can somebody confirm? If thats the case, I dont see anyone picking this guy up.

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10-01-2010, 01:29 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Almost useless offensively? can't set up the PP?

If you think Hamrlik is better than Souray, I don't know what to tell you other than you don't have a clue of what you're talking about.

He has injury concerns, a bad attitude, and is average at best on defense. But offensively? You've got to be joking.
Go watch a few games from last season when Markov was out and how Hammer carried the defense then come call me clueless. Hammer is a rock on defense, and light years ahead of Souray in terms of passing, defense, PK and PP. Souray is a pylon in every one of those fields. Souray should not even be classified as a dman at all, he's a one trick pony with his shot or did you forget what happened when other teams figured out how to neutralize him?

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10-01-2010, 01:30 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
full salary the following season? That's not good at all. Can somebody confirm? If thats the case, I dont see anyone picking this guy up.
No that's wrong. Avery was taken on re-entry waivers by NYR and they're only on the hook for 1/2 his salary, Dallas is still on the hook for the other 1/2.

Link: Capgeek for the stars: http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=14
Capgeek for the NYR: http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=22

Edit: To address the topic yes I would want Souray back on re-entry waivers. He was my favorite hab when he was here.

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10-01-2010, 01:34 PM
  #89
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Apart from salary saving, how is Souray an upgrade over Hammer? Souray is horrible defensively, almost useless offensively, can't setup a PP, extremely injury prone, has become known for his attitude problems and was divisive in the locker room in his final seasons here, just to name a few issues. Basically he's the anti-Hammer.

The heavy shot he has on the PP is not enough to overcome all of the above.
lol.. I guess MAB's heavy PP shot overcomes all.

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10-01-2010, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by felixd View Post
No that's wrong. Avery was taken on re-entry waivers by NYR and they're only on the hook for 1/2 his salary, Dallas is still on the hook for the other 1/2.

Link: Capgeek for the stars: http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=14
Capgeek for the NYR: http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=22

Edit: To address the topic yes I would want Souray back on re-entry waivers. He was my favorite hab when he was here.
so that basically means his cap hit remains 2.7 m for the rest of his contract ? with edmonton keeping the other 2.7m in cap hit ?


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10-01-2010, 01:38 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
So the guy who can't even skate is somehow better defensively then the guy who actually can? With all due respect as well, you'd have to be out of your mind to think Souray > MAB defensively.

Being physical after a whistle or fighting doesn't make you better defensively, the guys a pylon out there and he's on the decline. At least MAB might have the potential to improve slightly.

Nobody gets beat 1 on 1 worse than Sheldon Souray out of any NHL D who gets paid over 1 million and isn't a fringe NHLer. Heck he isn't even in a position to haul the guy down and take the good penalty, at least MAB would be, MAB doesn't get burned in the same way Souray constantly does. He makes way poorer decisions maybe but he doesn't get burned so badly that breakaways happen all the time because of him. Sometimes yes but with Souray it's constantly.

Sure he brings other stuff to the table but so does MAB. He fits out team because he's fast, Souray is slow as hell. But just because he's physical doesn't make him better defensively than MAB. 90% of the time when he's physical it's after the whistle blows, hardly helpful imo.

Plus MAB can play forward too, he's more versatile and given that he's bad defensively that's definitely an asset to have. Souray is Souray, a pylon who is on the decline, won't ever reach his golden year again and was lucky to have it in the first place. Frankly I don't see how anyone would take him over MAB, all opinions aside at the end of the day people can believe whatever they want about either of their defensive games but both of them allow about the same amount of mistakes to happen so regardless of if Souray is slightly better or MAB is slightly better, MAB fits our team better, is younger, faster, can play forward and actually brings more to the table than Souray does. Souray is injury prone and having to salary tied up to him even if he goes on LTI is still pretty wasteful being that you could've just signed somebody more reliable.

If you really think Souray is better than MAB all I can say is MAB is just more fresh in your mind than Souray is and you don't realize just how much the guys declined since leaving here.
Souray is >>>>>>MAB in every single aspect of hockey, including defense. I can no longer take you seriously after proclaiming this nonsense.

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10-01-2010, 01:44 PM
  #92
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i dont think we would get him but it would be sweet i always liked him

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10-01-2010, 01:45 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
2.7 m for souray sounds ok ... but it would be his full salary as soon as next year, and if only to avoid that situation... I wouldn't do it. (correct me if im wrong with the underlined part)

other than that... Its very hard to read the debate on who's the better defender between hammer and sourray. Really , there's no debate ; Its hammer all the way. We can agree hammer had a meh season last year... but he still post around 30 points every year. Would having a PP specialist that could maybe get 20 pts more be worth all the other aspects of the game... ?

and still ... MAB at 700k before souray at 2.7m
I don't think Hammer is an excellent defender or anything, but he is slightly more dependable than Souray.

Do we dump Gill to make room for Souray's PP shot?

I don't think we can let Hammer go, even if Markov is back. Our defense wouldn't be the same.

Gill was great in the playoffs, but if we have Markov in the lineup come playoff time, Gill's minutes would be reduced anyway.

Markov-Subban
Hammer-Spacek
Souray-Gorges

Works for me.

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10-01-2010, 01:52 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I can understand why people think I'm crazy saying MAB is better than Souray defensively.

1) We had MAB more recently (fresher failures in your mind)
2) People have had a hard on for Souray since he left
3) He's better offensively than MAB so people just think "better".

But sorry to say it just isn't the case. My memory isn't vague on Souray and I've seen him play on Edmonton, he's terrible even by comparison to MAB.

The difference between MAB and Souray defensively:

Souray > MAB when it comes to decision making, he's smarter with the puck, a better pass receiver, etc.

MAB > Souray when it comes to speed, actually having a chance to make a difference as he's actually a part of the play and not 10 feet away from where it's happening.

If you aren't even in the play you can't be much of a defenseman at least MAB has speed to do something even if he does make more mistakes in terms of controlling/handling the puck.
The only thing Souray and MAB have in common are their lethal shots. As defensmen, their styles couldn't be any more contrasting.

Souray is a guy who can punish you physically and wont think twice about kicking your ass if you went after a star player. He's the type that clears the crease.

MAB is more of a pure offensive d-man who likes to take more chances, but you wont see him out there on the pk to clear the crease or settle some issues.

Its comparing apples and oranges. Having said that, Souray's assets are much more valuable than MAB. He's more versatile than MAB (and dont tell me mab is more versatile because he can play 4th line forward... the habs were just trying to hide his deficiencies). What I mean by versatile is that he can play in all situations of the game including the pk. He gets his shot to the net on a more regular basis. He's definitely not as bad in his own zone... thats just an area we will have to disagree.

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10-01-2010, 01:53 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
So the guy who can't even skate is somehow better defensively then the guy who actually can? With all due respect as well, you'd have to be out of your mind to think Souray > MAB defensively.

Being physical after a whistle or fighting doesn't make you better defensively, the guys a pylon out there and he's on the decline. At least MAB might have the potential to improve slightly.

Nobody gets beat 1 on 1 worse than Sheldon Souray out of any NHL D who gets paid over 1 million and isn't a fringe NHLer. Heck he isn't even in a position to haul the guy down and take the good penalty, at least MAB would be, MAB doesn't get burned in the same way Souray constantly does. He makes way poorer decisions maybe but he doesn't get burned so badly that breakaways happen all the time because of him. Sometimes yes but with Souray it's constantly.

Sure he brings other stuff to the table but so does MAB. He fits out team because he's fast, Souray is slow as hell. But just because he's physical doesn't make him better defensively than MAB. 90% of the time when he's physical it's after the whistle blows, hardly helpful imo.

Plus MAB can play forward too, he's more versatile and given that he's bad defensively that's definitely an asset to have. Souray is Souray, a pylon who is on the decline, won't ever reach his golden year again and was lucky to have it in the first place. Frankly I don't see how anyone would take him over MAB, all opinions aside at the end of the day people can believe whatever they want about either of their defensive games but both of them allow about the same amount of mistakes to happen so regardless of if Souray is slightly better or MAB is slightly better, MAB fits our team better, is younger, faster, can play forward and actually brings more to the table than Souray does. Souray is injury prone and having to salary tied up to him even if he goes on LTI is still pretty wasteful being that you could've just signed somebody more reliable.

If you really think Souray is better than MAB all I can say is MAB is just more fresh in your mind than Souray is and you don't realize just how much the guys declined since leaving here.

I read the 1st line paragraph and just stopped reading. Souray >>>>>> MAB every level including his shot.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Souray is good on Defence just that MAB is just horrible and at least Souray can take players out of the play sometimes.

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10-01-2010, 01:56 PM
  #96
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I don't think Hammer is an excellent defender or anything, but he is slightly more dependable than Souray.

Do we dump Gill to make room for Souray's PP shot?

I don't think we can let Hammer go, even if Markov is back. Our defense wouldn't be the same.

Gill was great in the playoffs, but if we have Markov in the lineup come playoff time, Gill's minutes would be reduced anyway.

Markov-Subban
Hammer-Spacek
Souray-Gorges

Works for me.
Call me a pessimist but I dont think those guys are all going to be healthy for 82 games. If he were to start the season with the habs, its no problem because arkov will likely be out and maybe even hammer. Spacek is no young chicken and has a history of injuries. Gorges is the only established guy who never misses a game,

This move would be bad news for a guy like OB though.

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10-01-2010, 02:02 PM
  #97
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lol.. I guess MAB's heavy PP shot overcomes all.
Where did I even remotely suggest that?

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10-01-2010, 02:04 PM
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Would rather have Weber, Carle, Henry, O'Byrne play in the big league than have Souray. Souray brings the big slapshot, but we don't need it anymore. Hamrlik, Gill, Spacek are way better in in their own zone.

I don't see any advantage picking up Souray. If he can't make it in the Oilers line up, I don't see how he can with the Habs.

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10-01-2010, 02:14 PM
  #99
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Would rather have Weber, Carle, Henry, O'Byrne play in the big league than have Souray. Souray brings the big slapshot, but we don't need it anymore. Hamrlik, Gill, Spacek are way better in in their own zone.

I don't see any advantage picking up Souray. If he can't make it in the Oilers line up, I don't see how he can with the Habs.
He never had a problem cracking that lineup... he wore the A over there if I'm not mistaken. He wants out and the oilers are trying to help him out.

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10-01-2010, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
So the guy who can't even skate is somehow better defensively then the guy who actually can? With all due respect as well, you'd have to be out of your mind to think Souray > MAB defensively.

Being physical after a whistle or fighting doesn't make you better defensively, the guys a pylon out there and he's on the decline. At least MAB might have the potential to improve slightly.

Nobody gets beat 1 on 1 worse than Sheldon Souray out of any NHL D who gets paid over 1 million and isn't a fringe NHLer. Heck he isn't even in a position to haul the guy down and take the good penalty, at least MAB would be, MAB doesn't get burned in the same way Souray constantly does. He makes way poorer decisions maybe but he doesn't get burned so badly that breakaways happen all the time because of him. Sometimes yes but with Souray it's constantly.

Sure he brings other stuff to the table but so does MAB. He fits out team because he's fast, Souray is slow as hell. But just because he's physical doesn't make him better defensively than MAB. 90% of the time when he's physical it's after the whistle blows, hardly helpful imo.

Plus MAB can play forward too, he's more versatile and given that he's bad defensively that's definitely an asset to have. Souray is Souray, a pylon who is on the decline, won't ever reach his golden year again and was lucky to have it in the first place. Frankly I don't see how anyone would take him over MAB, all opinions aside at the end of the day people can believe whatever they want about either of their defensive games but both of them allow about the same amount of mistakes to happen so regardless of if Souray is slightly better or MAB is slightly better, MAB fits our team better, is younger, faster, can play forward and actually brings more to the table than Souray does. Souray is injury prone and having to salary tied up to him even if he goes on LTI is still pretty wasteful being that you could've just signed somebody more reliable.

If you really think Souray is better than MAB all I can say is MAB is just more fresh in your mind than Souray is and you don't realize just how much the guys declined since leaving here.
Are you joking? You do realize MAB has barely been in the NHL the last few years and Souray has a > $5m contract? There's no way in hell that MAB is better in his own zone than Souray. Souray isn't a great defender by any means but worse than MAB?

You do realize that when he left here he went to Edmonton who's been last place since and he's battled major injuries. You're also comparing Souray in Edmonton vs. MAB in Montreal. I Sure hope to GOD that MAB would have a better supporting cast than Souray did there.

This post makes me laugh

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