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Old
10-01-2010, 04:16 PM
  #51
Max Levine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
And what would people say to adding a big, mean, solid skating/positional dman, who is young, a leader, and available for only 700k more than we pay spacek? Oh, and he won't cost any assets and he likes playing in Montreal...


Would anyone say no?

Didn't think so...

Now let's hear again about how wise gainey was to let Komi walk and replace him with spacek :
You mean as a Leaf? Not only was he offered a very good contract by Gainey but Komisarek's comments at the end of that season made it sound like he'd rather play elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I think Gorges should be Markov's partner personally, because he doesn't need to be babysat and that would free Markov up to play without having to clean up messes like he had with, say, O'Byrne. Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me to see Picard pick up O'B's #7 role. The only time O'B gets results that are any good is when he's with #79, but he only does so by acting as a boat anchor for Markov.

But if Gorges goes with Markov and creates a real top-4 pairing, someone else would need to haul Gill around, and I'm not sure it's fair to ask Subban to do that. And you want to take Gill out because, while his 5-on-5 effectiveness is entirely dependent on relaxed playoff officiating, he still is an hellacious penalty-killer.

In any case, the Hamrlik-Spacek pairing was probably the team's best all year and the only one that's definitely not likely to be a problem. I wonder if they'll break it up and go Markov-Spacek and Hamrlik-Subban though?
Gorges has shown in the past that he can be a great partner for Markov but you can't break up Gill-Gorges pairing at this point, especially considering that they are the #1 pair on PK.

Personally, I was hoping O'Byrne could replace Komi next to Markov. He's the stay-at-home D we would need. Unfortunately, he plays like his self-confidence can't get any higher.

I'm not sure we would lose Gill at the end of the season. Depending on his play this year, I wouldn't be surprised if he were offered a 1-year extension.

As for Spacek, we saw some good things from him last season and I feel he can bring much more than what he has shown so far. I expect Gauthier to find a replacement for Hamrlik next summer but as I mentioned elsewhere, I also wish he would trade for a young puck-moving defenseman prospect. With Subban, Gorges, Tinordi and someone like Colby Cohen or Stefan Elliott, our future would look much brighter.

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Old
10-01-2010, 07:18 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Seabrook is a product of Keith who has become well known from this osmosis process, he is nowhere near the same class of Dman. Calling them equals is ridiculous.
And if Seabrook came here he would be a product of Markov.

If Hamrlik and/or Spacek are gone at the end of the year we should have enough cap space to sign him, especially if Emmelin was coming over to NA to play with us.

In the off-season if we could sign him to an offer sheet as an RFA and give up a 1st and a 3rd or a 1st, 2nd and 3rd I wonder if Chicago would match?

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Old
10-01-2010, 09:45 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Captain G View Post
You take Hamrlik's 5,5 M, and sign a proven D.

Here's a little list of possible UFA D in 2011 :
-Chara (34)
-Kaberle (33)
-Jovanovski (35)
-Hannan (32)
-Brewer (32)
-Pitkanen (28)
-Bieksa (30)
-McCabe (36)
-Erhoff (29)
-Phillips (33)
-White (27).
(Age in 2011)
Who do you thin could be interesting?

Note : Chara is looking for a long contrat till 45 years old
It depends on what kind of player we are looking for. Next year, the defense will consist of Subban, Gorges, Spacek and hopefully Markov.

You have one elite defenseman who you can pair up with practically anybody, a young promising puck-moving offensive defenseman who should be paired up with a defensively responsible player, a very solid and reliable defenseman with little offense, and Spacek.

If I had to pick one or two players from that list (minus Chara and Phillips since it's likely they'll resign with their respective teams), I would pick Ehrhoff/Brewer, or Pitkanen/Hannan.

Markov - Ehrhoff
Gorges - Subban
Brewer - Spacek

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Old
10-01-2010, 09:51 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Yes and yes, and Spacek more than Hamrlik.

He's being hailed as a pot of turd but you could make the argument he was more effective than Hammer last year. The problem is, aesthetically his game looks terrible. But it still gets the puck moving in the right direction and it still gets the scoring chances headed the right way (well, relative to the five-on-five-challenged Habs, of course).



It explains a lot though. When he said he wanted a top-4 D-man, I thought he meant a #4 on the depth chart, not "top-4 in NHL"...
I would have to disagree here big time.....I would say he gives the puck away more then anything.

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Old
10-01-2010, 10:05 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain G View Post
You take Hamrlik's 5,5 M, and sign a proven D.

Here's a little list of possible UFA D in 2011 :
-Chara (34)
-Kaberle (33)
-Jovanovski (35)
-Hannan (32)
-Brewer (32)
-Pitkanen (28)
-Bieksa (30)
-McCabe (36)
-Erhoff (29)
-Phillips (33)
-White (27).
(Age in 2011)
Who do you thin could be interesting?

Note : Chara is looking for a long contrat till 45 years old

Kaberle is the most interesting. Well, Chara is but he costs too much for our budget.

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Old
10-01-2010, 10:45 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
After watching this camp and compressing it with last year, there is a definite need for an other top 4. Spacek should have been that guy and he is not. Looking around the league and these type just don't pope up often.
What we need is a TOP SHUTDOWN DMAN
What we have is tones of puck moving Dman but no punishing Dman.
We need someone to play right to Markov with grit and size.

We miss the boat on some UFA so who is avaible via trade?
Too many are too quick to right Spacek off. People remember what he did against Ovechkin?

He was gold in the playoffs, and he will be fine when two of the top 4 return in Markov and Hamrlik. Our D will be solid when it is Markov, Subban, Hamrlik, Spacek, Gill, Gorges and O'Byrne/Henry/Picard as the 7th Dman.

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Old
10-01-2010, 10:56 PM
  #57
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What about trading for either Jack or Erik Johnson and getting Brad Richards at the next free agency to play with Ellers and Cammelleri? Trade A.K.,Pouliot, and O'Byrne.

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Old
10-01-2010, 11:30 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Smoke Monster View Post
What about trading for either Jack or Erik Johnson and getting Brad Richards at the next free agency to play with Ellers and Cammelleri? Trade A.K.,Pouliot, and O'Byrne.
Why not trade Gomez instead?


Last edited by Frozenice: 10-01-2010 at 11:42 PM.
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Old
10-01-2010, 11:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Max Levine View Post
You mean as a Leaf? Not only was he offered a very good contract by Gainey but Komisarek's comments at the end of that season made it sound like he'd rather play elsewhere.
yeah, that's not too surprising considering how we approached re-signing him.
Players are people, just with massive ego's...

not working out a contract before getting to free agency certainly impacted his feelings of loyalty to the club, and at that point, why wouldn't he go to the highest offer.
being offered a "very good contract" is not quite the same as being offered the highest salary.
Toronto outbid us, Gainey was convinced he could better spend the money elsewhere, we ended up with Spacek for 3 years @ 700K less...

if I'm building a team, i'd pay a little bit more for the young/improving guy than I would for the guy knocking on 40's door... or, put another way, If I have a softish team that's about to lose it's existing leadership core, I'd go with the young, brutish potential captain for 700K more than the softish, not outspoken old guy... but that's just me, and go figure, 1 year into it and were talking about how to replace the guy Gainey chose to go with...

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Old
10-02-2010, 12:11 AM
  #60
Max Levine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
yeah, that's not too surprising considering how we approached re-signing him.
Players are people, just with massive ego's...

not working out a contract before getting to free agency certainly impacted his feelings of loyalty to the club, and at that point, why wouldn't he go to the highest offer.
being offered a "very good contract" is not quite the same as being offered the highest salary.
Toronto outbid us, Gainey was convinced he could better spend the money elsewhere, we ended up with Spacek for 3 years @ 700K less...

if I'm building a team, i'd pay a little bit more for the young/improving guy than I would for the guy knocking on 40's door... or, put another way, If I have a softish team that's about to lose it's existing leadership core, I'd go with the young, brutish potential captain for 700K more than the softish, not outspoken old guy... but that's just me, and go figure, 1 year into it and were talking about how to replace the guy Gainey chose to go with...
Go back one year and we'd be talking about how to replace Komi. He had an awful start in Toronto including a header in his own net. I can almost hear the chants at the Bell Centre: "Head it!", "Use your head!".

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Old
10-02-2010, 12:12 AM
  #61
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After 3 years, shouldn't you know how to multi quote already ?
I still don't know how.

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Old
10-02-2010, 12:23 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Too many are too quick to right Spacek off. People remember what he did against Ovechkin?

He was gold in the playoffs, and he will be fine when two of the top 4 return in Markov and Hamrlik. Our D will be solid when it is Markov, Subban, Hamrlik, Spacek, Gill, Gorges and O'Byrne/Henry/Picard as the 7th Dman.
I don't get that either. Well, I do. He hasn't looked that great in this seasons ahem training-camp, add that to his cap hit (that a lot of people seem to be sad about but is actually pretty reasonable for what he brings) and it seems that everybody has run wild with that. It's like last season didn't happen.

He was very solid last year playing on the right side of a brand new team with a brand new coach eating huge minutes for the first half of the season and played solid in the playoffs after coming back from a virus that kept him out for a while too. I still don't get how he's become a whipping boy so fast.

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Old
10-02-2010, 08:21 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by preston View Post
I still don't know how.
If you want to multi-quote press the multi button instead of the quote button at the bottom of one of the quotes and then go to the next quote you want to add and press quote and viola, you have just multi-quoted.

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Old
10-02-2010, 08:35 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
Play four forwards and no goalie They can't boo Price if he's on the bench and Gorges and Gill play goalie
Thanks for your witty contribution to the discussion.

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Old
10-02-2010, 09:32 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Why not trade Gomez instead?
Trading the great puck carrying forward Gomez to free up space, along with the disppointing A.K., Pouliot, and O'Byrne to free up some slots for some players that can contribute something more might be an option,but I do like Gomez's competitive nature especially in the playoffs. Trade them for a top 4-d. Jack or Erik Johnson would be nice or someone along those lines, a young quality defenseman that can eventually play with Tinordi.
And then how about acquiring ufa's Gagne and Brad Richards next free agency. We'll have:
Gagne-Plekanec-Gionta
Spacek-Johnson
Ellers-Richards-Cammalleri
Marko-Subban

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Old
10-02-2010, 10:19 AM
  #66
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O'Byrne needs to develop really quick if he wants to get out of the #7 role. I think he's getting passed by, not just by Subban, but by guys like Weber as well.

And Markov can make a pretty good first pair out of himself plus most NHL D-men.
I think O'byrne's development is fine, he just needs a coach that believes in him and won't bench him after each mistake. He looked like a guy walking on eggshells on Thursday night.

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Old
10-02-2010, 10:27 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Smoke Monster View Post
Trading the great puck carrying forward Gomez to free up space, along with the disppointing A.K., Pouliot, and O'Byrne to free up some slots for some players that can contribute something more might be an option,but I do like Gomez's competitive nature especially in the playoffs. Trade them for a top 4-d. Jack or Erik Johnson would be nice or someone along those lines, a young quality defenseman that can eventually play with Tinordi.
And then how about acquiring ufa's Gagne and Brad Richards next free agency. We'll have:
Gagne-Plekanec-Gionta
Spacek-Johnson
Ellers-Richards-Cammalleri
Marko-Subban
You'll end up replacing almost a third of the team to make your idea work and that is assuming you keep AK and Pouliot.

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Old
10-02-2010, 12:55 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
I would have to disagree here big time.....I would say he gives the puck away more then anything.
Indeed, he did get a lot of giveaways, yet one has to wonder howcome he finished +9 last season, second to Markov on the team.

Maybe THAT should hint to you what the other poster is talking about, instead of trying to paint reality differently then what it is.

BTW, Spcacek was actually -2 for the 45 games Markov was in the lineup, he was +11 while Markov wasn't there. Quite terrrrrible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
yeah, that's not too surprising considering how we approached re-signing him.
Players are people, just with massive ego's...

not working out a contract before getting to free agency certainly impacted his feelings of loyalty to the club, and at that point, why wouldn't he go to the highest offer.
being offered a "very good contract" is not quite the same as being offered the highest salary.
Toronto outbid us, Gainey was convinced he could better spend the money elsewhere, we ended up with Spacek for 3 years @ 700K less...

if I'm building a team, i'd pay a little bit more for the young/improving guy than I would for the guy knocking on 40's door... or, put another way, If I have a softish team that's about to lose it's existing leadership core, I'd go with the young, brutish potential captain for 700K more than the softish, not outspoken old guy... but that's just me, and go figure, 1 year into it and were talking about how to replace the guy Gainey chose to go with...
That's utter BS. Gee, I wonder howcome Plekanec and Kovalev (4 years back) and Markov were still here.

Don't create that BS argument when this way of dealing with players is common throughout the league. It's just a pityful excuse for a player with no heart who went cry-baby because the crowd didn't like his play. Suck it up Komi. Pricey did it and he's half a decade younger.

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Old
10-02-2010, 02:54 PM
  #69
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i absolutely love the ignore feature on this site...

allows for much better enjoyment when you don't have to read obnoxious posts from posters who think they know it all... no matter how many times they shove their foot in their mouth.


as a temporary solution, Shane O'brien was waived today apparently... I'd gladly claim him and let him/o'byrne/picard fight it out for the 7th spot (starting the season as #5/6, until Markov/Hamrlik are healthy).

adds the sandpaper factor that we could use.

his work ethic issues are a concern, but getting waived may help wake him up, and martin doesn't seem to take much flack so if he doesn't work out, nothing lost.

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Old
10-02-2010, 03:47 PM
  #70
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I think if we want to get a better top 4 D we should focus on it next summer instead of trading the untradeable...

Offer sheet to Shea Weber or sign Phillips

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Old
10-02-2010, 04:12 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
i absolutely love the ignore feature on this site...

allows for much better enjoyment when you don't have to read obnoxious posts from posters who think they know it all... no matter how many times they shove their foot in their mouth.
Yeah, you should look in the mirror for someone who thinks who knows it all no matter how many times they shove their own foot into their mouth. I tend to believe the ignore feature is for those who can't cope with strong arguments, and would rather debate with people who won't challenge them. All-in-all, IMO, the IL is mostly used by people with no backbone.

Want me to post all the times you've put your foot in your mouth? Or have you deleted some of your history?

Kinda like this pearl of wisdom :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
if Pleks has a good season, we will have a hard time keeping him... if he has a great season, he's as good as gone.
Or this one :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
after watching him manoeuver last

off-season, the last thing i want to see is him trying to fix it on

his own... enough already.

he's had his time, it didn't work, at all, no sense letting him

continue to "try" to make it work.
Seems like it did work. Better than 26 other teams in the league.


I have a boatload of them that I copy-pasted when I read them, because I knew they would come in handy some day. The ones I posted aren't the worst ones. I'm keeping the other ones for later on...


Last edited by Ozymandias: 10-02-2010 at 04:19 PM.
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Old
10-04-2010, 08:28 AM
  #72
otto bond
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Too many are too quick to right Spacek off. People remember what he did against Ovechkin?

He was gold in the playoffs, and he will be fine when two of the top 4 return in Markov and Hamrlik. Our D will be solid when it is Markov, Subban, Hamrlik, Spacek, Gill, Gorges and O'Byrne/Henry/Picard as the 7th Dman.
I must have forgotten.......me though it was Gorges and Subban mostly playing vs Ovechkin. What I do remember is that sure he plays great with out the puck but makes terrible decision with it. He was supposed to be that guy, moving the puck swiftly up to the forward......that one timer on the PP....where was it. They signed MAB because he did not fill the bill.

To some up my scout() report of Spacek's play....Good position, delivered some nice hit, terrible with the puck, a few lucky floppy shot that went in and a one timer that missed the net more then it hit.

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10-18-2010, 08:19 AM
  #73
otto bond
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So guys I'm telling you we need to replace Spacek in the top 4.
The guy is just not doing it. He was supposed to be that top 4 but he is not. Time for our GM to go out shopping.

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:57 AM
  #74
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Perfect healthy duo:

Markov - Gorges
Subban - Hamrlik

But the problem is we can't put Spacek and Gill togeter because.... you know why

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:59 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by chubaka View Post
Perfect healthy duo:

Markov - Gorges
Subban - Hamrlik

But the problem is we can't put Spacek and Gill togeter because.... you know why
Hamrlik is not a top 4 d-man in this league any longer...

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