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Old
10-03-2003, 04:56 PM
  #76
AK-47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean
That's incredibly good! Does anybody know what kind of lineup the Wild brought to Montreal?

It's near the end of the camp so the roster they had wasn't too far from what they will have starting the year.

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10-03-2003, 04:57 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by deandebean
Kid???? How old are you, man?

I guess you've never played hockey before. You don't start suddenly to play with intensity. It's not a switch you turn on or off that easy. You need to gain momentum in your play to have it on. To do so, you need to start the engine a couple of games before the start of the season. Granted, the first 5-6 games were just for the kids. And it showed. But the last 2 are the crucial ones. Just read Julien's comments today and you'll learn a bit or two about managing a hockey team.

Still can't believe he called me a kid! hehe. I haven't been called a kid since 1987.

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10-03-2003, 04:57 PM
  #78
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Good job! Man, we really need Hossa to contribute regularly.

And I almost forgot about Souray, we can really use him this year... at least our Defense will look stronger physically.

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10-03-2003, 04:58 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Vicious
Five of our players get injured. We can't score more than one goal in 10 straight games. And I should not be worried? If no one can score now, what guarantees they will score when season starts? If we aren't giving our best efforts, keep in mind that other teams aren't either. Calling me a dumbass was a great argument, by the way. Amazing even.

Yeah, and he's the one who says to calm down,

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10-03-2003, 04:58 PM
  #80
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People...people...keep your hatred for the Habs vs Leafs games.....

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Old
10-03-2003, 05:01 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Blunt182
People...people...keep your hatred for the Habs vs Leafs games.....

Good point, gotta keep that anger for the leafs!!

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10-03-2003, 05:02 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
Ribeiro is so sexy, Ribeiro is the man, gotta love Ribeiro, Ribeiro is the man. Did i mention i like Ribeiro? coz i do, not for his looks though, for his sheer ability to dominate with the puck.

Want to see real domination with the puck, go see Spezza tomorrow. That's real domination. Ribeiro is still weak and wouldn't even make 60 p. cent of the NHL lineups today. Like you said, it's only pre-season. Shades of 2001 and 2002.

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10-03-2003, 05:05 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean
Want to see real domination with the puck, go see Spezza tomorrow. That's real domination. Ribeiro is still weak and wouldn't even make 60 p. cent of the NHL lineups today. Like you said, it's only pre-season. Shades of 2001 and 2002.

In all seriousness (I'm ending my part of the bickering), I guess Ryder has just secured his spot on the team. That's good. He's got all the attributes to make it in this league. Good to finally have a homegrown kid make it with the big club. Higgins played ok, according to the guys on CJAD. Saved his arse for a day, I guess.

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10-03-2003, 05:08 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean
Ribeiro is still weak and wouldn't even make 60 p. cent of the NHL lineups today. Like you said, it's only pre-season. Shades of 2001 and 2002.
Well yes and no. I saw Ribeiro play and this time he REALLY improved his quickness, intensity and even speed. Not like the previous camp. I saw progress there. And this is coming from a guy that thought Ribeiro was nothing more than waiver wire so I'm no fan of his but I have to give credit where it is due and so far, he seems eagered to prove me (and his other detractors) wrong. The fact he looked good tonight playing against a gritty and intense team with a near complete roster is a positive sign, granted we'll only know for sure when the season starts.

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10-03-2003, 05:17 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
Well yes and no. I saw Ribeiro play and this time he REALLY improved his quickness, intensity and even speed. Not like the previous camp. I saw progress there. And this is coming from a guy that thought Ribeiro was nothing more than waiver wire so I'm no fan of his but I have to give credit where it is due and so far, he seems eagered to prove me (and his other detractors) wrong. The fact he looked good tonight playing against a gritty and intense team with a near complete roster is a positive sign, granted we'll only know for sure when the season starts.

From what I saw at the opened practices, I think you're right. He has improved his speed and quickness and that makes him a way more dangerous player.

I think mckeen could be right with their prediction of a 45 point season.

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10-03-2003, 07:10 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean
It's as if you're writing about freaking Mario Lemieux here...I mean, Koivu for crying out loud, can't even score 30 goals regularly. Zednik, I'll admit, can shell it, but 30 goals is still only one goal per 2.3 games. Can't win with 0.40 goal a game...

This team is just weak up front. Face it.
Oh so you wanna play by the numbers?

Lets compare our respective teams best player...

Koivu 0.8 Points per Game in his career
Naslund 0.77 points per game in his career

Now lets rank Koivu against other centers for last season...

Koivu is ranked 10 in points equal with Brendan Morrison and ahead of the likes of Weight,Jokinen,Yashin,Oneil,Marchant,Roenick,Nedve d,Elias,Marleau


And they say hes a 2nd line center...

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10-03-2003, 07:39 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredez
Oh so you wanna play by the numbers?

Lets compare our respective teams best player...

Koivu 0.8 Points per Game in his career
Naslund 0.77 points per game in his career

Now lets rank Koivu against other centers for last season...

Koivu is ranked 10 in points equal with Brendan Morrison and ahead of the likes of Weight,Jokinen,Yashin,Oneil,Marchant,Roenick,Nedve d,Elias,Marleau


And they say hes a 2nd line center...
You can say he's 1st liner because he produce but we will never IMO see the CUP in MTL as long as Koivu is the CAPTAIN & our #1 C.

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10-03-2003, 07:57 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredez
Oh so you wanna play by the numbers?

Lets compare our respective teams best player...

Koivu 0.8 Points per Game in his career
Naslund 0.77 points per game in his career

Now lets rank Koivu against other centers for last season...

Koivu is ranked 10 in points equal with Brendan Morrison and ahead of the likes of Weight,Jokinen,Yashin,Oneil,Marchant,Roenick,Nedve d,Elias,Marleau


And they say hes a 2nd line center...
Stats aren't everything and it's easy to make them lie though...

Koivu produced more younger than a lot of other players. However, who in his right mind would pick Koivu over Naslund today? And isn't today what's important and not the fact that Koivu scored twice as much points as Naslund in his first few years?

Also, intangibles don't show up on the scoresheet. Koivu has few intangibles. He's not a top goalscorer, he's not a top playmaker, he can't protect the puck like many other top liners can (Hossa, Thornton, Forsberg, Sundin, etc). He's not a very good penalty killer neither a PP specialist. Koivu reminds me of Cliff Ronning, who's had very good stats over his whole career. Yet I don't think anyone would claim Ronning is a top 1st line center...

Now, am I saying that Koivu ain't good? Not at all. I think he's a good player. However, is he enough to make Montreal a Stanley Cup contender? I don't think so.

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10-03-2003, 10:10 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plekanec
Koivu never had two quality wingers to play with at same time and never had real first line wingers except maybe Recchi and Zednik, he never could prove his real value... (Savage, Rucinsky, Audette, Kovalenko, Corson...)

With all what Koivu bring to the game, it's obvious that he has the tool to be a top 10-15 center in the league... He is an amazing playmaker with superb work ethic, nice all aroung player who play with grit along the board despite his small size... But the tool you don'T seem know what it is, just too bad!

Give Koivu 2 decent real first line winger and you have a really respectable first line!

Koivu and Zednick were the only two to make things happen last year, never we had a decent second line, that was one of the worst in the league with Perreault centering it... Hopefully, this year we will be improved alot at this position with the emergence of Ribeiro and Hossa!

Have a nice season my friend and enjoy Ribeiro's play!
You think you know so much that you have argument that doesn't prove anything.

Did you know that Zigmund Palffy had one of his best season by playing most of the season with quality players such as Derek Armstrong & Eric Belanger ? Would you say that if Palffy had Allison & Deadmarsh last year he would have a lot better than 85 pts in 76 games ?

All the theories about if Koivu had Naslund & Bertuzzi is bull$hit , look at the Avs this year , do you think they will have 6 players over 80 pts because they are all capable of doing so ?

Palffy would have maybe 5-10 pts more MAX with Allison-Deadmarsh instead of Armstrong-Belanger but it wont be 125 pts because it's 2 superstars instead of a nice 3rd liner & an AHLer.

The thing is EVERYONE here , even those who thinks he is a 2nd line center will agree that OFFENSIVELY he could be a top 10-15 center in the league but like Smail said it's not only about STATS !!!

& good luck with Ribeiro.

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Old
10-04-2003, 07:27 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
You think you know so much that you have argument that doesn't prove anything.

Did you know that Zigmund Palffy had one of his best season by playing most of the season with quality players such as Derek Armstrong & Eric Belanger ? Would you say that if Palffy had Allison & Deadmarsh last year he would have a lot better than 85 pts in 76 games ?

All the theories about if Koivu had Naslund & Bertuzzi is bull$hit , look at the Avs this year , do you think they will have 6 players over 80 pts because they are all capable of doing so ?

Palffy would have maybe 5-10 pts more MAX with Allison-Deadmarsh instead of Armstrong-Belanger but it wont be 125 pts because it's 2 superstars instead of a nice 3rd liner & an AHLer.

The thing is EVERYONE here , even those who thinks he is a 2nd line center will agree that OFFENSIVELY he could be a top 10-15 center in the league but like Smail said it's not only about STATS !!!

& good luck with Ribeiro.
I agree with most of what you said but there is a slight diff imo that you didn't consider. Palffy is a much better scorer and with his speed can create and score on his own chances. Koivu on the other hand is a playmaker who requires players that can finish. I agree that putting 2 superstars on his wings wont get him 125 pts but I would bet he would have far more than the 10 added points. Just look at how many times that Koivu gave a sweet pass and the wingers failed to score. I am sure if it was Naslund and Bertuzzi receiving those passes they would be scoring at a much higher rate than Hossa, Kilger or Audette.

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Old
10-04-2003, 08:57 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
Did you know that Zigmund Palffy had one of his best season by playing most of the season with quality players such as Derek Armstrong & Eric Belanger ? Would you say that if Palffy had Allison & Deadmarsh last year he would have a lot better than 85 pts in 76 games ?

All the theories about if Koivu had Naslund & Bertuzzi is bull$hit , look at the Avs this year , do you think they will have 6 players over 80 pts because they are all capable of doing so ?

Palffy would have maybe 5-10 pts more MAX with Allison-Deadmarsh instead of Armstrong-Belanger but it wont be 125 pts because it's 2 superstars instead of a nice 3rd liner & an AHLer.
Palffy is a speedy sniper, a sniper doesn't depend as much on his teammates than playmakers, another good example is Zednik. Palffy creates his chances with his incredible speed and ability to play through high trafics areas. Koivu, OTOH, pass the puck first and is always looking for a teammates to pass the puck.

Adding Bertuzzi and Naslund, you had two of the best powerplay performer in the league (42 & 54 points) versus Zednik (10 pts) and a crappy forwards ( not much powerplay points). Adding Bertuzzi and Naslund is adding players with significantly more tools than Zednik and the Kilgers, Audettes, etc. Bertuzzi would do the dirty work in the corners and both Naslund and Bertuzzi are two of the best snipers in the league as well. Both players, healthy all year long, can rack up 200 points by themselves. This line would one of the top NHL first line and would play more than the current Koivu line who struggles against the opponent's top line. Zednik doesn't use his teammates much while Bertuzzi and Naslund are good fit for each others.

I don't see why it is such a reach to say a playmaker like Koivu with two of the best forwards (and goal-scorers) in the league wouldn't get more than 80 points.

Finally, you are the one who is telling I am underrating Bulis by thinking 50 points is an accurate prediction. You justify your arguments by saying he would play with Koivu and with more powerplay, he could score 60-70 points, you even predicted him to score 30 + goals.

I don't see why my thinking of Koivu with Bertuzzi and Naslund is total ******** while your bulis prediction is so good.

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10-04-2003, 10:40 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saku K.
Palffy is a speedy sniper, a sniper doesn't depend as much on his teammates than playmakers, another good example is Zednik. Palffy creates his chances with his incredible speed and ability to play through high trafics areas. Koivu, OTOH, pass the puck first and is always looking for a teammates to pass the puck.

Adding Bertuzzi and Naslund, you had two of the best powerplay performer in the league (42 & 54 points) versus Zednik (10 pts) and a crappy forwards ( not much powerplay points). Adding Bertuzzi and Naslund is adding players with significantly more tools than Zednik and the Kilgers, Audettes, etc. Bertuzzi would do the dirty work in the corners and both Naslund and Bertuzzi are two of the best snipers in the league as well. Both players, healthy all year long, can rack up 200 points by themselves. This line would one of the top NHL first line and would play more than the current Koivu line who struggles against the opponent's top line. Zednik doesn't use his teammates much while Bertuzzi and Naslund are good fit for each others.

I don't see why it is such a reach to say a playmaker like Koivu with two of the best forwards (and goal-scorers) in the league wouldn't get more than 80 points.

Finally, you are the one who is telling I am underrating Bulis by thinking 50 points is an accurate prediction. You justify your arguments by saying he would play with Koivu and with more powerplay, he could score 60-70 points, you even predicted him to score 30 + goals.

I don't see why my thinking of Koivu with Bertuzzi and Naslund is total ******** while your bulis prediction is so good.

Because Naslund & Bertuzzi never clicked before Morrison became his primary center. Morrison is what those 2 needs , a center who got offensive abilities (less than Koivu for sure) but also very responsible to take care of the line defensively, things like that Koivu would never be able to provide to this line. Sure Koivu would probably get 10-15 maybe 20 more pts than in MTL. But like you said , everyone in here is whining that even if Brisebois get 40 pts but dont care because he's a defensive liability (which I dont agree with). So why would it be different if a Bertuzzi-Koivu-Naslund get 95-90-95 pts each but are costly defensively ?

As for Bulis maybe it was me who didnt say it well or you misread me but I was talking about 1st line & PP ICE TIME to think that Bulis could be better than Zednik offensively & not because he play with Koivu. It would sure help Jan's production but the ICE TIME would help him more than Koivu itself. I even think that Bulis would help the other wingers production more than Zednik who alienates every production from the other wingers.

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10-04-2003, 01:48 PM
  #93
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Russian Fan, chemistry is hard to predict and how Koivu would fare with different wingers is fun to discuss over beer, but it's just opinion. Your comments about Zednik, I think I understand your opinion, but I really don't agree. With Koivu, I find that Zednik is less selfish with the puck. When on another line I find that he tends to lead one man assaults at the net. It could be a matter of respect, I don't really know. Remember Richer at his best. When he played with skilled linemates he seemed uncomfortable. I found that he was at his best with a grinder like Skrudland at his side. Zednik can put the puck in the net and on an offence starved team, that ability is of pretty high value. I really like Bullis' all around game, but he has to show he can finish to be used in more pp situations.

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10-04-2003, 02:19 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
Russian Fan, chemistry is hard to predict and how Koivu would fare with different wingers is fun to discuss over beer, but it's just opinion. Your comments about Zednik, I think I understand your opinion, but I really don't agree. With Koivu, I find that Zednik is less selfish with the puck. When on another line I find that he tends to lead one man assaults at the net. It could be a matter of respect, I don't really know. Remember Richer at his best. When he played with skilled linemates he seemed uncomfortable. I found that he was at his best with a grinder like Skrudland at his side. Zednik can put the puck in the net and on an offence starved team, that ability is of pretty high value. I really like Bullis' all around game, but he has to show he can finish to be used in more pp situations.
As always nice comments

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