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Old
10-02-2010, 11:28 AM
  #51
kivaerijo
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Do you really think me moving 650 miles away is going to keep my mouth shut? I could be on the moon and I'd still voice my opinion.
no...i was just hoping it would.

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10-02-2010, 12:40 PM
  #52
BigFatCat999
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Per RDS and Predlines of twitter Aaron Johnson waived. Looks like Sulzer won.

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10-02-2010, 01:25 PM
  #53
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Per RDS and Predlines of twitter Aaron Johnson waived. Looks like Sulzer won.
I wouldn't necessarily call it a win. I think Johnson has outplayed Sulzer in camp, but Sulzer likely wouldn't clear waivers to be sent down and would also require recall waivers to be brought back (which would put us on the hook for half his salary if he got claimed). Johnson, being on a two-way deal, does not require recall waivers to be brought back up and I think it's a case of asset management more than anything else...

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10-02-2010, 01:29 PM
  #54
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And the Preds are going with depth and not 'best team available'. Which stands to reason, 'best team available' might also mean depth.

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10-02-2010, 02:24 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
And the Preds are going with depth and not 'best team available'. Which stands to reason, 'best team available' might also mean depth.
If your description of "best team available" is focused strictly on icing the best 23 guys, I think it's the Fs, not so much the D, that would look different.

I'm not much of a Sulzer fan, but honestly, is there really gonna' be that much difference between Sulzer and Johnson as our 7th guy? I suppose we could get caught out west with an injury and have to have him play several nights, but otherwise - it's the occasional emergency start or night off for Cube, Franson, or Parent. But the Fs...... Belak, Tootoo, Smitty - I'm not sure they're all part of our "best" 14 Fs, although I have resigned myself to needing to keep Tootoo not only because of his popularity but because there are a few thugs in the west where we need someone to step up, but I'm not convinced anymore that Smitty brings the same tenacity to the PK he used to.

Whether or not dropping them equates to "going with depth"? - dunno, but I'm pretty sure we have several kids/younger vets who are better hockey players right now.

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10-02-2010, 03:07 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
If your description of "best team available" is focused strictly on icing the best 23 guys, I think it's the Fs, not so much the D, that would look different.

I'm not much of a Sulzer fan, but honestly, is there really gonna' be that much difference between Sulzer and Johnson as our 7th guy? I suppose we could get caught out west with an injury and have to have him play several nights, but otherwise - it's the occasional emergency start or night off for Cube, Franson, or Parent. But the Fs...... Belak, Tootoo, Smitty - I'm not sure they're all part of our "best" 14 Fs, although I have resigned myself to needing to keep Tootoo not only because of his popularity but because there are a few thugs in the west where we need someone to step up, but I'm not convinced anymore that Smitty brings the same tenacity to the PK he used to.

Whether or not dropping them equates to "going with depth"? - dunno, but I'm pretty sure we have several kids/younger vets who are better hockey players right now.
I think what you mention about Smitty is right on. This will be his last year for sure. I also think he could be replaced before seasons end. I know the staff is high on Spaling and I think Halishuk made an impression at camp. If any of the grinders get off to a slow start or get hurt I can see either of those being called up and sticking.

Although Spaling didn't put up any offensive numbers for us last year he does have some skills with the puck which is more than the dump and chase of Smitty. I understand he's a 4th line player but if we don't lose anything with a guy like Spaling, I think he's a better option for us long term than Smitty is.

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10-02-2010, 03:08 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I wouldn't necessarily call it a win. I think Johnson has outplayed Sulzer in camp, but Sulzer likely wouldn't clear waivers to be sent down and would also require recall waivers to be brought back (which would put us on the hook for half his salary if he got claimed). Johnson, being on a two-way deal, does not require recall waivers to be brought back up and I think it's a case of asset management more than anything else...
I think with the sheer volume of guys on waivers and Sulzer's lack of anything tangible proven in the NHL, he'd most likely clear. Someone like Shane O'Brien or even Aaron Johnson is likely a much more attractive option.

As an aside, if we insist on having someone fight, I wish we could send Belak down and claim Hordichuk. At least he can skate and even scored the odd goal.

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10-02-2010, 05:44 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I think with the sheer volume of guys on waivers and Sulzer's lack of anything tangible proven in the NHL, he'd most likely clear. Someone like Shane O'Brien or even Aaron Johnson is likely a much more attractive option.

As an aside, if we insist on having someone fight, I wish we could send Belak down and claim Hordichuk. At least he can skate and even scored the odd goal.
I always got the impression that Hordy didn't leave here on the best of terms. Not sure if I really want him back, even if it replaces Wade

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10-02-2010, 07:12 PM
  #59
token grinder
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i guess i am alone in the alex sulzer has had a pretty darn good camp and has looked good in the preseason games camp.

but i also think he has outplayed franson for a spot too

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10-02-2010, 08:13 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
i guess i am alone in the alex sulzer has had a pretty darn good camp and has looked good in the preseason games camp.

but i also think he has outplayed franson for a spot too
Not completely alone. I don't know who he outplayed or didn't outplay. But I've watched some video this pre-season. And from the smaller percentage of it that had Sulzer on camera, I thought he looked like an NHL defenseman. He looked very good to me. Although I haven't seen nearly as much as others who have been there live. But I'm glad he's getting another chance after being derailed some last year with the shoulder injury. I think the staff really likes what he brings or he wouldn't have had those previous chances and now again.


Last edited by OpenWheel: 10-02-2010 at 08:24 PM.
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Old
10-02-2010, 08:33 PM
  #61
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The reentry waivers had to be the reason that Sulzer won out. Though I will say I am perfectly fine with Sulzer playing. He is good at every aspect of the game, just not great.

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Old
10-02-2010, 08:43 PM
  #62
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And Johnson is great?

I actually haven't seen enough of Johnson. Just surprised someone who would sign a two way was sounding like such an awesome find, from the kudos on this board. But, I didn't see much so i don't know.

But for some reason I ended up seeing more of Sulzer. And yeah, as you say maybe he's not great but seems fairly well rounded. I thought he looked mobile enough and strong enough and decent instincts.

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10-02-2010, 10:34 PM
  #63
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Sulzer plays a safer, more simple game than Johnson. Why is that? Because Johnson plays more physical, is faster, and has more confidence having several years of NHL hockey under his belt. With that being said though, Johnson gets caught sometimes trying to make things happen rather than allowing the game to come to him and dictate the situation...

Sulzer has shown the ability to provide offense at the AHL level, but has not yet done so in his limited minutes at the NHL level. To stick and continue to grow, he must gain that confidence in his overall game to earn himself a role in the top six and possibly work his way into the plans for next season and beyond whether it is here or elsewhere...

After saying all that though, I think it came down to a combination of Johnson being exempt from recall waivers and the ~$400k saved by paying Johnson only $105k in the AHL (if he clears, which I'm not sure about) whereas Sulzer makes $675k regardless of where he plays this year...

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Old
10-03-2010, 10:26 AM
  #64
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CGC: I just don't have a ****ing clue

I WAS supposed to be in Pittsburgh. I WAS supposed to be finding ways to get myself a sandwich at Primanti Brothers with the artificial sweetener laced Italian dressing cole slaw. I WAS supposed to have a clue about this roster. But then, I can't even get a ****ing clue on what I would be good at in my life. The Nashville Predators as built are familiar yet so unexplainable. Like dating a sweet girl with schizophrenia, you think you know her, she looks the same but then something happens and you are asking yourself, "Why is she buying handcuffs and smiling at me."

The moves the Predators made seemed to make sense on the face of it. Lombardi as a replacement for Arnott. Kostitsyn as the mystery top line player with all the skills and a troubled past. Johnson at the variable 7th defenseman, enough skill to play PP and PK time while not needing a majority of minutes. Parent to be the defensive defenseman for Franson on the 3rd pairing. Jonas Andersson as a 4th line plugger who may replace Smithson. O'Reilly was out the door with Sulzer, Laakso, and many other 'right now' disappointments. The allure of the unfamiliar grabbed at us but we, and I include myself in this, forgot about BFC's answer to everything; time and money.

Lombardi statistically could be seen as the answer to Arnott, but the shear fact of the matter is that the answer is layered. The question of, 'Who will replace Arnott's offense?' was really a superficial facade to the real question, 'How does Nashville ramp up the offense?' Lombardi may start as the #1 center, but unless Wilson shines as a wing, time will answer the question with Wilson at center and taking over the #1 spot. Even if Wilson is a wing full time Nashville has the depth at center to steady the ship. Offensively, Wilson could be the key. The projected line combinations are odd and scream 'cherry picking' but isn't that the Predators way anyway? Splitting up the speed and confusing the coaching staffs of the other teams as much as Trotz is confusing the **** out of me.

Sergei Kostitsyn, what an enigma. I can usually read a player's position from your posts. An informal polling of suck versus un-suck usually tells me the answer. SK is so odd. He's the George W. Bush/Barack Obama of the Nashville Predators. You either love him or loath him. He's like an Escher painting, you just can't get a handle on him. He has offensive skill but I think SK's defensive ability may just be his strength. I wouldn't be surprised if he plays on the 1st line feeding passes to Hornqvist or sitting in the press box with Belak comparing fist size and see who can get the most toppings on their BBQ nachos. Which coincidentally could be the difference between me or 29dryden29 in BC Pronose clown nose at the end of the year.....

Johnson has been waived and it's because of money or specifically, resources. Johnson is on a two way, Sulzer a one way. Johnson has half as much of a chance to be claimed as Sulzer. It is a matter of mathematical chance. Johnson may have been better but by how much? 5%? 10%? And even then it was for the position of 7th defenseman which I have been known to call the 'doormat defenseman'

Parent and Franson seem like a perfect pairing; until the matter of time came in. Parent grew into his potential of being the next Hamhuis and Franson, by all of your accounts, disappointed. Now with the commentary about Weber and Suter being split up now I would not be surprised to see Weber-Klein, Suter-Parent, Boullion-Sulzer/Franson. More and more, Franson is looking like a Zidlicky with less D. Last practice Trotz was double shifting Franson on the PP. It sounds like an attempt to salvage him as a purely offensive defensman. Parent on the other hand is sounding more and more like he's exceeding expectations.

O'Reilly is my binky......if my binky was made of rusted razor wire coated with Lye and fecal matter. I honestly was expecting him to be out like Chuck Lidell's lights in a fight. But time once again strikes. The problem with vets is that they are done developing. They are a known quantity. A lot of the Preds we have are still young and growing. And by SLake's accounts, it looks like O'Reilly will be the #2 center on this team. An unexpected gift. With O'Reilly's playmaking ability you can have him center two of the more offensively gifted wingers. If fact, O'Reilly's development might make WIlson's move to wing permanent.

My new questions are this for the roster:

1) Do we really need to worry about developing the PK?

With the team's discipline on penalties, is strengthening the PK a priority? The common quote of football is that there are three phases of the game; offense, defense, and special teams. Nashville last year was strong even strength. Special teams sucked like paying taxes sucks at your soul. But what if you can influence the amount of time you will need for those special teams? Nashville averaged 8 penalties a game last year. Can they get lower than that? Can Nashville lower the PK time below the 15-18 minutes per game? How does Nashville drop this 20-25% of a game down to 15%?

2) What does the PP look like?

THIS does need developing. Franson looks like a PP specialist. SK with his passing skills could help the PP. Lombardi might be a push with the absence of Arnott. Will Hornqvist continue to be a PP animal? Where do the pieces fit in?

3) How many games does Lindback/Dekanich/Pickard/Smith play?

Just because we EXPECT Rinne to play a lot does not mean that we will panic if he doesn't. This is Nashville boys and girls. This team uses goalies like Hollywood uses starlets. Once the wrinkles and sags show up, in comes another. I'm not too worried about it because Nashville had a hell of a fight between Lindback and Dekanich and if Lindback falters or Rinne is hurt Dekcanich is a few percentage points lesser than Lindback. (And let's face it, if Rinne goes down the season is FUBARed anyway).

4) Trade deadline, what's the move.

The owner talked about having extra money for this season for moves. Ok, how much and did Poile blow the budget with the depth? Even then the team could make a move to free up money. Even Jordin Tootoo admitted that his job is on the line. Imagine if the team moved him? Imagine what will happen when the frustrated fans toss their Tootoo whistles on the ice and then, nothing. If the team wins the fans will be placated. Just a simple fact of human psychology. Everyone loves a 4th liner because they show a level of character unlike most of the first and second liners. But the sad fact is there are a lot of 4th liners in this world and character is never short in the NHL.

Fact is that there are players who will be coming in next season who might bring an interest to the team. Ryan Ellis, Charles Olivier-Rousell, Jeff Foss (Who most likely won't be immediately signed to finish his degree in RPI), Mike Latta, Taylor Beck. Milwaukee already has a top 4 in defense who can play in the NHL. The top 2 forward lines in Milwaukee have 5 players with NHL experience. I have 8 defensemen on Milwaukee's depth chart and that's not including defensive try outs at camp.

This season has a feel of all in and I could see Poile making a move to pick up a rental at the deadline.

There are still two more skaters who will find themselves in Milwaukee or on waivers. Who will they be? Don't ask me. My title says it all.

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Old
10-03-2010, 11:03 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
1) Do we really need to worry about developing the PK?

With the team's discipline on penalties, is strengthening the PK a priority? The common quote of football is that there are three phases of the game; offense, defense, and special teams. Nashville last year was strong even strength. Special teams sucked like paying taxes sucks at your soul. But what if you can influence the amount of time you will need for those special teams? Nashville averaged 8 penalties a game last year. Can they get lower than that? Can Nashville lower the PK time below the 15-18 minutes per game? How does Nashville drop this 20-25% of a game down to 15%?
Nashville was number one in fewest penalties with just 3.7 per game, 8.7 minutes per game, according to the NHL stats page. So I doubt they can go lower than that. Detroit was second at 8.7 minutes per game, but the third best was 10.5 minutes.


Last edited by OpenWheel: 10-03-2010 at 11:27 AM.
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Old
10-03-2010, 11:36 AM
  #66
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Nashville was number one in fewest penalties with just 3.7 per game, 8.7 minutes per game, according to the NHL stats page. So I doubt they can go lower than that. Detroit was second at 8.7 minutes per game, but the third best was 10.5 minutes.
Ah I misremembered.I thought it was 8.7 penalties a game. 8.7 minutes a game is very phenomenal. That's only 14.5% of the game.

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Old
10-03-2010, 11:38 AM
  #67
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Sulzer as #7 scares me. Good thing he wont be playing much

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10-03-2010, 12:08 PM
  #68
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I think many things are at play here:

we over value o'reilly as a fanbase.

we undervalue the troubles that kostitsyn has had in the past, thus we over value him as a fan base.

we overvalue aaron johnson becuase some fans at hf boards said he was good. but the fact remains-no one wanted him, not even teams like the oilers and flames. and odn't tell me he was biding his time. after the first week or two in july, guys will take almost any deal if they are fringe players. and johnson is that. a fringe player. it isn't about contracts and which way a player can go. sulzer is better and younger than johnson. i think people forget how high everyone was on this kid when he had his first cup of coffee with the preds. injuries, hurt him. plain and simple. and as much as he lost his job to injury, bouillon being better than expected and franson's role on our pathetic play kept him in the lineup, as sulzer isn't a pp guy.

poile knew what he was doing in getting parent back. remember this guy was traded for peter fresking forsberg as the centerpiece of the deal. his knock is injuries. guy is made of glass. when healthy, he is a top 4 talent. when healthy.

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Old
10-03-2010, 12:18 PM
  #69
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O'Reilly is not going to be the number 2 center on this team. It's a pipe dream. This is his last shot of making the team. Goc and Legwand are better players and proven that fact. O'Reilly has done nothing to prove he deserves in the top 6. Legwand, Lombardi and Goc will be the top 3 centers on this team when the season starts. I have no doubts about that.

If O'Reilly was going to be the second line center, he would've been getting PP minutes with the top 2 units in practice. Instead, Legwand and Lombardi were getting the reps. If the staff is so high on him as the second line center then he needs to be getting the PP time coupled with being a number 2 center. I just don't see that happening.

Goc proved he was a good fit between Sully and Hornqvist last year. Legwand between Ward and Dumont appears to be a good fit as well. The only person that can supplant Ward is SK. If that's the case, we end up with three pretty well balanced lines, offensively, defensively, speed and size wise.

O'Reilly just isn't a fit in any of these scenarios.

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Old
10-03-2010, 12:38 PM
  #70
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so when is the deadline for final cuts?

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