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Dubinsky Best Option as C for 1st Line

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Old
10-04-2010, 09:03 AM
  #26
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while stepan may be weaker defensively compared to dubi- and even that is debateable, his offense would more than make up for it.

ive seen nothing from derek stepan to make me believe he wouldnt help us win games this season. in fact, hes been one of our best players this whole camp so far and far better than brandon- skates around doing nothing- dubinski.

and for the record, ive been thoroughly impressed with stepans forecheck, pk work and ability to anticipte plays and take pucks away. this kind of stuff highlights the way this kid thinks the game.

all of those things tell me derek stepans is ready.

if push comes to shove, i put stepan between frolov and gaby before i put dubinski there.

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10-04-2010, 09:04 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by 94Obsession View Post
I fully believe Derek Stepan is better than most of our fowards not named Gaborik or Frolov.

Derek Stepan has more creativity already in making plays in his pinky than Dubinsky could ever hope for, and already has more HOCKEY SENSE.

Dubinsky in an ideal situation would be a 3rd line center at best. I don't think he's a top 6 foward, and will never be one.

I love Dubsinky, but some of you severely overrate players like Dubinsky.
What truly astonishes me if that everybody recognizes the need for a true #1 center on this team, but Im not so sure everyone recognizes all the demands of that role.

Stepan certainly has some unique playmaking ability, but right now he is lacking in just about every other attribute a top line center needs - ESPECIALLY on the defensive side of the puck, where hes been overmatched quite often in the preseason (conveniently ignored by many since hes the new golden boy prospect).

Stepan is nowhere near ready to assume the responsibility of playing 20 minutes a night against the opposition's top center and top defensive pairings.

Im not making this argument to prop up Dubinsky either, so lets not make it all about him. What this proves more than anything else is just how screwed this team is down the middle in general.

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10-04-2010, 09:17 AM
  #28
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another useless article by Captain Negative.

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10-04-2010, 09:18 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What truly astonishes me if that everybody recognizes the need for a true #1 center on this team, but Im not so sure everyone recognizes all the demands of that role.

Stepan certainly has some unique playmaking ability, but right now he is lacking in just about every other attribute a top line center needs - ESPECIALLY on the defensive side of the puck, where hes been overmatched quite often in the preseason (conveniently ignored by many since hes the new golden boy prospect).

Stepan is nowhere near ready to assume the responsibility of playing 20 minutes a night against the opposition's top center and top defensive pairings.

Im not making this argument to prop up Dubinsky either, so lets not make it all about him. What this proves more than anything else is just how screwed this team is down the middle in general.
You make a good point. But now i'm gonna say this to you:

Why can't The Rangers or this organization ever just play a kid from the start, and let these players or prospects grow as players, like all these other organizations always do?

What do are the fans of this team and why is this organization always hesitant, that has plagued this team, and organization for years, to support the prospects like Stepan to make the team outright and put up with the growing pains of a player like Stepan or prospect?

Why can't we be like these other organizations for once and just play a prospect with promise?

It's time we did things a bit different around here, organizational wise, we have nothing to lose.

It wont hurt letting Stepan center the first line or make the team.

I, for one, am tired of seeing everyone else get it right with prospects, while we're stuck in mediocrity, and would like to see homegrown players grow with us, and the team over the years, as players.

I just would just at this point would rather see Derek Stepan center the first line at this point.

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10-04-2010, 09:24 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94Obsession View Post
You make a good point. But now i'm gonna say this to you:

Why can't The Rangers or this organization ever just play a kid from the start, and let these players or prospects grow as players, like all these other organizations always do?

What do are the fans of this team and why is this organization always hesitant, that has plagued this team, and organization for years, to support the prospects like Stepan to make the team outright and put up with the growing pains of a player like Stepan or prospect?

Why can't we be like these other organizations for once and just play a prospect with promise?

It's time we did things a bit different around here, organizational wise, we have nothing to lose.

It wont hurt letting Stepan center the first line or make the team.

I, for one, am tired of seeing everyone else get it right with prospects, while we're stuck in mediocrity, and would like to see homegrown players grow with us, and the team over the years, as players.

I just would just at this point would rather see Derek Stepan center the first line at this point.
could you elaborate on what comparable prospects you're talking about?

what other teams have plugged a rookie 2nd round draft pick straight out of college into their 1st line and just ran with it?

not entirely trying to be an ass but im pretty curious who you're compairing us with here

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10-04-2010, 09:24 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Then you're drinking the kool-aid in believing that Derek Stepan or Erik Christensen can do a better job centering the top line RIGHT NOW than Dubinsky who is, by far, the best established player of the bunch.
What Kool Aid is that? Todd White is more "ESTABLISHED" than Dubinsky, and has had better seasons than Dubinsky, so by your logic, he should be the starting C.

I think you're the one drinking the Kool Aid if you think Dubinsky is even a quality Center, at this point.

Stepan is better suited for the top line than Dubinky, and I don't even think it's close.

Stepan IS a more talented player than Dubsinky... period, end of story.


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10-04-2010, 09:24 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94Obsession View Post
You make a good point. But now i'm gonna say this to you:

Why can't The Rangers or this organization ever just play a kid from the start, and let these players or prospects grow as players, like all these other organizations always do?

What do are the fans of this team and why is this organization always hesitant, that has plagued this team, and organization for years, to support the prospects like Stepan to make the team outright and put up with the growing pains of a player like Stepan or prospect?

Why can't we be like these other organizations for once and just play a prospect with promise?

It's time we did things a bit different around here, organizational wise, we have nothing to lose.

It wont hurt letting Stepan center the first line or make the team.

I, for one, am tired of seeing everyone else get it right with prospects, while we're stuck in mediocrity, and would like to see homegrown players grow with us, and the team over the years, as players.

I just would just at this point would rather see Derek Stepan center the first line at this point.

Agree with you wholeheartedly. If we were to do that with anyone I think he's the one. He definitely needs some growth but I also don't see why he wouldn't be a quick learner. Players of his type usually are. It'll take him some time to fully round out his game, but I have faith in our staff and veterans that they'll help him evolve just fine. In the meantime, he'll still be puttin up points.

One thing that I think is so important this year is that we keep lines consistent. Let the players finally get to really 'know' each other. Put Step there from the get go and let him, Gabby and Fro grow their games together; as a line.

My only reservation is that I absolutely LOVED the Avery/Step/Fed line and would love to see what they could do as they grew together even more. But logically and strategically he likely fits in better on the 1st.

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10-04-2010, 09:37 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
could you elaborate on what comparable prospects you're talking about?

what other teams have plugged a rookie 2nd round draft pick straight out of college into their 1st line and just ran with it?

not entirely trying to be an ass but im pretty curious who you're compairing us with here
I wasn't really trying to compare us with anyone. I just meant in general or overall.

Not that i'd know of any situations or players at all off the top of my head.

The point of my post wasn't to compare any prospects or organizations to us. I just meant it in a way that I probably wasn't too clear on, and that i'm tired of seeing everyone else be successful with prospects in their lineups or on their teams in any situation, while we do the same old, same old.

If that makes sense. I'm probably wording this wrong, or just explaining everything wrong, but I just want to do or would like to do or try something different for once. It can't hurt us. If Stepan makes mistakes, I could live with it.

It really can't hurt to try, and let this kid play.

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10-04-2010, 09:49 AM
  #34
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Do you guys think we are getting carried away here?

Im sure Torts will have given everyone a chance to Center the first line by the top of the 3rd.

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10-04-2010, 09:51 AM
  #35
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This is one of the dumbest things brooks has said recently.

Not only was this never even in consideration, its just a flat out bad idea. Dubi will have much more offensive potential on the wing. He will be better than cally but very similiar. Honestly, seeing him on the wing for a full season has been one of my most anticipated things about this Ranger team.

It made my morning that the majority of you in this thread realize how much more potential dubi has on the wing than at center!

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10-04-2010, 09:51 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
could you elaborate on what comparable prospects you're talking about?

what other teams have plugged a rookie 2nd round draft pick straight out of college into their 1st line and just ran with it?

not entirely trying to be an ass but im pretty curious who you're compairing us with here
John Taveres

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10-04-2010, 09:52 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by 94Obsession View Post
I wasn't really trying to compare us with anyone. I just meant in general or overall.

Not that i'd know of any situations or players at all off the top of my head.

The point of my post wasn't to compare any prospects or organizations to us. I just meant it in a way that I probably wasn't too clear on, and that i'm tired of seeing everyone else be successful with prospects in their lineups or on their teams in any situation, while we do the same old, same old.

If that makes sense. I'm probably wording this wrong, or just explaining everything wrong, but I just want to do or would like to do or try something different for once. It can't hurt us. If Stepan makes mistakes, I could live with it.

It really can't hurt to try, and let this kid play.
i guess my counter point would be:

Henrik
Dubinsky
Callahan
Anisimov
Staal
Girardi
Gilroy
Del Zotto

thats a lot of homegrown prospects that have been inserted into the lineup, with a couple more comming this season...all of which, outside of henrik + girardi, are 25 years old or younger

we dont have an AO or Crosby that stepped out of the whomb ready to play on the first line in the NHL, but its going to be real hard to make a case that the rangers haven't infused youth into their line up over the last few years

side note: dubi was the first line center w/jarg his rookie year...following your logic about dealing with the growing pains, shouldnt he be our 1st line center?

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10-04-2010, 09:53 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
John Taveres
this is sarcasm right?

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10-04-2010, 09:56 AM
  #39
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Personally, I would love dubinsky or AA centering the first line. Dubinsky did a fine job centering the first line when jagr was on the team after nylander left. For people insisting he's incapable of playing center, lets get real, he was drafted as a center, reached the nhl playing center, and centered our first line decently while the 7 million dollar men
(drury and gomez) played 2nd and 3rd center.
Granted dubinsky is not a play maker, but Marian Gaborik and Alex Frolov do not need a play making center, they need a center that can carry the puck, work the boards and be defensively reliable.
A playmaker would be much more useful on a line between our weaker wingers.

Anyone whos followed gaborik and frolov through their careers knows they like to create their own shots, they are both very much like jagr, puck possesion is the key, but they have relied on a playmaker much much less than jagr ever did.


EDIT: This isn't to say that I don't think dubinsky would be better as a winger, without the center resposibility, because I do, but lets not pretend he's some waiver reject we just picked up.
I

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10-04-2010, 09:58 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
this is sarcasm right?
No....it is true....

Dont get me wrong...to start the season i want ec on the first and step on the third

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10-04-2010, 10:00 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
John Taveres
Tavares wasn't a 2nd round pick.

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10-04-2010, 10:02 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
No....it is true....

Dont get me wrong...to start the season i want ec on the first and step on the third
i asked because tavares was the 1st pick overall coming out of juniors, and i was asking who could be compared to Stepan in this situation, being as he's a 2nd round pick coming out of college

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10-04-2010, 10:02 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I'm open to the possibility, but for now I see no issue with Christensen there.
Pretty much my sentiment as well. There is no story here. (With the exception of the Prospal injury update.)

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10-04-2010, 10:04 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
i asked because tavares was the 1st pick overall coming out of juniors, and i was asking who could be compared to Stepan in this situation, being as he's a 2nd round pick coming out of college
Woops lol i apologize.....cant think of any second rounders off the top of my head

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10-04-2010, 10:09 AM
  #45
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nobody hates larry brooks more then me (except for tortorella)...
but he is definitley right about this....
i wouldn't mind seeing this lineup and i could see dubinsky putting up 70 points playing the entire season with gaborik and on the first powerplay unit

Frolov-Dubinsky-Gaborik
Prust-Anisimov-Callahan
Avery-Stepan-Fedetenko
Boogaard-Boyle-Kennedy

our second line is weak, but callahan and anisimov are both good defensively that will put up 40 points... avery stepan and fedetenko just works and would be the best 3rd line in the nhl... are fourth line is strong... and our first line is the best it's been in a while

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10-04-2010, 10:09 AM
  #46
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I fully believe Derek Stepan is better than most of our fowards not named Gaborik or Frolov already. Which goes to show you how little top 6 fowards we have had over the years, and our failure to draft any in the last 10 years that have cracked the lineup.

Derek Stepan has more creativity already in making plays in his pinky than Dubinsky could ever hope for, and already has shown more HOCKEY SENSE.

Dubinsky in an ideal situation would be a 3rd line center at best. I don't think he's a top 6 foward, and will never be one.

I love Dubsinky, but some of you severely overrate players like Dubinsky.
Until Stepan produces at a good margin at the NHL level or even at the AHL level, I have to say that Dubinsky is the better player right now than Stepan. I think you are underrating Dubinsky. He can get 50-60 points on a top 6 line. If he played on the first line with Gaborik he would get over 60 points..

I do agree that Stepan has looked good in pre-season but so has so many other prospects in the past looked good in pre-season... The regular season is a lot different than the pre-season. Stepan looks to be just about NHL ready.. Perhaps dominating in the AHL would be the best thing for his development. It is rare for a 20/21 year old to start as the first line center and play well for an 82 game NHL season....

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10-04-2010, 10:12 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by rangersfan111 View Post
nobody hates larry brooks more then me (except for tortorella)...
but he is definitley right about this....
i wouldn't mind seeing this lineup and i could see dubinsky putting up 70 points playing the entire season with gaborik and on the first powerplay unit

Frolov-Dubinsky-Gaborik
Prust-Anisimov-Callahan
Avery-Stepan-Fedetenko
Boogaard-Boyle-Kennedy

our second line is weak, but callahan and anisimov are both good defensively that will put up 40 points... avery stepan and fedetenko just works and would be the best 3rd line in the nhl... are fourth line is strong... and our first line is the best it's been in a while
This lineup sucks....no offense

PRUST on our second line

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10-04-2010, 10:13 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What truly astonishes me if that everybody recognizes the need for a true #1 center on this team, but Im not so sure everyone recognizes all the demands of that role.

Stepan certainly has some unique playmaking ability, but right now he is lacking in just about every other attribute a top line center needs - ESPECIALLY on the defensive side of the puck, where hes been overmatched quite often in the preseason (conveniently ignored by many since hes the new golden boy prospect).

Stepan is nowhere near ready to assume the responsibility of playing 20 minutes a night against the opposition's top center and top defensive pairings.

Im not making this argument to prop up Dubinsky either, so lets not make it all about him. What this proves more than anything else is just how screwed this team is down the middle in general.
Sorry, but I just don't see this. I would say that while Stepan could definitely get physically stronger, his defense is already acceptable and will only get better. His few failures on defense have simply been due to the fact that more mature players have been able to force their way by him - but then again, the same thing happens to players established players like Prospal who simply aren't that imposing. Meanwhile his positioning and anticipation are already above average.

But it's always the fashionable thing to say about a rookie that his defensive game, which is hard to quantify, is lacking. Frankly to some with this point of view (not saying this is necessarily you, BRB, but your post gave me a jumping off point), NO rookie is ever ready to play until they've logged like 5 seasons in the minors "learning their craft" at which point they might just barely be equipped to break into a 3rd or 4th line role. Then, after demonstrating for 3-4 more years that they are up to snuff on a lower line, perhaps at round about 30 years old they might just be ready to handle the responsibilities of a top line forward.

Yes, I'm exaggerating, but you get my point. This "need to learn your craft" is not a hard and fast rule. Some players do know their **** when it comes to defense and positioning at a very young age. It's more common among forwards than it is among defenseman. And it's especially common among "high hockey IQ" players. Like Derek Stepan.

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10-04-2010, 10:18 AM
  #49
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Paul Stastny was a second round pick who scored 78 points in his first nhl season out of college centering good players in colorado. I'm not saying that Stepan will have that kind of a season, thats highly unlikely, but why not start him in the role and see what happens?

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10-04-2010, 10:20 AM
  #50
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Paul Stastny was a second round pick who scored 78 points in his first nhl season out of college centering good players in colorado. I'm not saying that Stepan will have that kind of a season, thats highly unlikely, but why not start him in the role and see what happens?
thank you for the example

i supose the coaching staff just doesnt think he's ready yet

im sure we'll see it at some point though

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