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Dubinsky Best Option as C for 1st Line

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Old
10-04-2010, 11:22 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by rangersfan111 View Post
nobody hates larry brooks more then me (except for tortorella)...
but he is definitley right about this....
i wouldn't mind seeing this lineup and i could see dubinsky putting up 70 points playing the entire season with gaborik and on the first powerplay unit

Frolov-Dubinsky-Gaborik
Prust-Anisimov-Callahan
Avery-Stepan-Fedetenko
Boogaard-Boyle-Kennedy

our second line is weak, but callahan and anisimov are both good defensively that will put up 40 points... avery stepan and fedetenko just works and would be the best 3rd line in the nhl... are fourth line is strong... and our first line is the best it's been in a while
haha worst post of the thread..... HAHA

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10-04-2010, 11:25 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What truly astonishes me if that everybody recognizes the need for a true #1 center on this team, but Im not so sure everyone recognizes all the demands of that role.

Stepan certainly has some unique playmaking ability, but right now he is lacking in just about every other attribute a top line center needs - ESPECIALLY on the defensive side of the puck, where hes been overmatched quite often in the preseason (conveniently ignored by many since hes the new golden boy prospect).

Stepan is nowhere near ready to assume the responsibility of playing 20 minutes a night against the opposition's top center and top defensive pairings.

Im not making this argument to prop up Dubinsky either, so lets not make it all about him. What this proves more than anything else is just how screwed this team is down the middle in general.
no one will argue this point.

i stated before that stepan should NOT be the 1c. but that was when we had, or i thought we had, a healthy prospal and christensen to play there. now vinny has a bad wheel and christensen has looked like...well...christensen in camp.

it comes down to this.

is stepan better for that spot than dubinsky ?

i say yes, with a fair amount of trepidation, but still yes none the less.

dubi isnt cut our for that position. he just isnt and stepan will do a nice job there until we can make other arrangements or until he makes us feel comfortable with the decision.

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10-04-2010, 11:26 AM
  #53
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If you're gonna move Christensen out of the lineup and Dubi up from 2nd line LW the least you can do is replace him with Avery or Kennedy there, not frekkin Prust.

Frolov-Dubinsky-Gaborik
Avery-Anisimov-Callahan
Kennedy-Stepan-Fedotenko

makes much more sense.

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Old
10-04-2010, 11:27 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Sorry, but I just don't see this. I would say that while Stepan could definitely get physically stronger, his defense is already acceptable and will only get better. His few failures on defense have simply been due to the fact that more mature players have been able to force their way by him - but then again, the same thing happens to players established players like Prospal who simply aren't that imposing. Meanwhile his positioning and anticipation are already above average.

But it's always the fashionable thing to say about a rookie that his defensive game, which is hard to quantify, is lacking. Frankly to some with this point of view (not saying this is necessarily you, BRB, but your post gave me a jumping off point), NO rookie is ever ready to play until they've logged like 5 seasons in the minors "learning their craft" at which point they might just barely be equipped to break into a 3rd or 4th line role. Then, after demonstrating for 3-4 more years that they are up to snuff on a lower line, perhaps at round about 30 years old they might just be ready to handle the responsibilities of a top line forward.

Yes, I'm exaggerating, but you get my point. This "need to learn your craft" is not a hard and fast rule. Some players do know their **** when it comes to defense and positioning at a very young age. It's more common among forwards than it is among defenseman. And it's especially common among "high hockey IQ" players. Like Derek Stepan.
Depends on what we're arguing here, BRF. If we're talking about Derek Stepan centering the first line/playing 20+ minutes a night/and being forced to defend the best centers in the NHL, not to mention operate against the best defensive pairings, I think thats a recipe for failure at this point in time. I mean, thats what this argument is about, right? Centering the first line? Its quite clear that Stepan has more upside than Dubinsky, but Dubinsky is the guy that can better handle it right now...I dont even think thats up for debate.

I'd be much more comfortable slotting Stepan on the 3rd line with 12-14 mins of icetime per night if you want to acclimate him to the NHL right away.

But honestly, the kid is going to get destroyed lining up against the likes of Sidney Crosby, etc, with 1st line responsibilities.

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10-04-2010, 11:27 AM
  #55
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Stepan and Dubinsky are different players. Dubinsky and Callahan are much more alike then Dubinsky and Stepan. Stepan is a playmaker, Dubinsky is not. Dubinsky is a hard nosed take it to the face, take it off the boards, take it to the net and light the lamp and stick up for your teammate kind of guy. Both of these kids look fearless and we're lucky to have them both. Nice work on drafting great personalities.

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Old
10-04-2010, 11:27 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by IAMREALITY View Post
Year by year Brooksies articles get dumber and sound more forced. It's like he's trying extra hard to come up with contrary sure to piss some people off crap to write about; while trying to sound like he actually knows what he's talking about or should be taken seriously. It's like he's become a caricature of himself. If any one of us wrote this article ourselves as a thread, we'd be mocked and locked lol.

He's like a professional troll or something.

Brooksie has an insatiable hate for Coach John. It manifests itself time and again in his mindless rants.

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10-04-2010, 11:34 AM
  #57
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On the contrary, I really think that Anisimov should be centering the top line between Frolov and Gaborik. I'm aware that Tortorella said that he has to be careful with Anisimov but he just looks stronger in every aspect of his game and showed some chemistry with Frolov.. I think putting Stepan between Dubinsky and Callahan would be beneficial for him as he gets adjusted to playing the pro game. Callahan and Dubinsky are pretty good two-way players that would cover up any defensive mistakes. And they get in on the fore-check really quickly, taking and dishing out most of the physical play leaving Stepan with more space to play his game.

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10-04-2010, 11:36 AM
  #58
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Who cares if Stepan was a 5th rounder or a 1st rounder. What does that have to do with anything? He has flat out played most of the guys at camp in his 5 games. He is second on this team in scoring at this point. Some off you goof balls on this board can find everything wrong with him, but at the end of the day this kid will be a the top of our scoring all year. He has done it at every level. He had a even plus minus rating until the last game where he was on the ice for four goals. 2 of them empty nets, one he was 3 feet from the boards on a line change. He has not been out matched in any game in his own end. Datsyuk, Zetterberg fith and 7th rounders i believe. College kids doing ok in this leauge, how about Toews, Oshie, Wheeler. None of them spent time in the A.

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10-04-2010, 11:40 AM
  #59
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Bleedrangerblue. How do you know that Stepan is going to get destoyed playing against those guys. You know something we dont. How come Toews and Oshie and Wheeler didn't. yOU MUST HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL!!! Has he been destroyed to this point. Before all you goofing fans throw him under the bus, let it play out. This kid was a first line center at the University of Wisconsin at 18 years of age playinf against 21-22 year old players. It sure looks like it worked out for him there. Let the darn thing play out. My guess is that this kid does not let us down


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Old
10-04-2010, 11:40 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
Who cares if Stepan was a 5th rounder or a 1st rounder. What does that have to do with anything? He has flat out played most of the guys at camp in his 5 games. He is second on this team in scoring at this point. Some off you goof balls on this board can find everything wrong with him, but at the end of the day this kid will be a the top of our scoring all year. He has done it at every level. He had a even plus minus rating until the last game where he was on the ice for four goals. 2 of them empty nets, one he was 3 feet from the boards on a line change. He has not been out matched in any game in his own end. Datsyuk, Zetterberg fith and 7th rounders i believe. College kids doing ok in this leauge, how about Toews, Oshie, Wheeler. None of them spent time in the A.
I totally agree, and I can't wait until the next roster update for NHL 11 with him on it!!

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10-04-2010, 11:42 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
Who cares if Stepan was a 5th rounder or a 1st rounder. What does that have to do with anything? He has flat out played most of the guys at camp in his 5 games. He is second on this team in scoring at this point. Some off you goof balls on this board can find everything wrong with him, but at the end of the day this kid will be a the top of our scoring all year. He has done it at every level. He had a even plus minus rating until the last game where he was on the ice for four goals. 2 of them empty nets, one he was 3 feet from the boards on a line change. He has not been out matched in any game in his own end. Datsyuk, Zetterberg fith and 7th rounders i believe. College kids doing ok in this leauge, how about Toews, Oshie, Wheeler. None of them spent time in the A.
Thank you.

Stepan has been fine defensively. Even if he was below average, there are plenty of below average defensive players in this league that can sure bring the power offensively-- therefore people disregard their defensive liabilities.

Look at MDZ, we all love him. Our PP quarterback. The only real threat of an offensive play on our back end. He is horrendous defensively. Do we care? No. We overlook that.

Stepan has outplayed every center easily throughout camp. Anisimov should get a shot with Gabs and Fro but it seems Torts isn't willing to do that so Stepan is the answer.

Anyone else in slot 1 center would be absolutely retarded. And Brooks, you're an idiot. The coaching staff doesn't even want Dubi to play center.

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10-04-2010, 11:45 AM
  #62
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Brooks just has no clue on this one. I personally think it really doesnt

matter who you stick between Gaborik and Frolov there going to put

up points regardless lots of points. Gaborik nets 42 with a carousel of

centers last year. From Prospal to Dubi to EC they all had a crack and

Gabby still scored. I think putting Stepan up on the first would

benefit him tremendously and jump start his NHL career

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10-04-2010, 11:49 AM
  #63
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I think Dubinsky is a much better fit as a center then LW...

...there is one aber though, you don't want your centers to be inconsistant, and thats what Dubinsky have been in the NHL lately. But in terms of his skill-set, I think he makes much more sense at center ice then on the wing. I think he struggles to get in on time on the forecheck, and he don't have that turbo in his skating were he can take-off with a couple of strides.

He have good come from behind speed though, and is good at taking the puck up ice.

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10-04-2010, 11:59 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I think Dubinsky is a much better fit as a center then LW...

...there is one aber though, you don't want your centers to be inconsistant, and thats what Dubinsky have been in the NHL lately. But in terms of his skill-set, I think he makes much more sense at center ice then on the wing. I think he struggles to get in on time on the forecheck, and he don't have that turbo in his skating were he can take-off with a couple of strides.

He have good come from behind speed though, and is good at taking the puck up ice.
he has skills. no doubt.

hes just dumb as a wet box of rocks.

hes not an nhl centerman.

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10-04-2010, 12:02 PM
  #65
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Dubinsky is good on the boards, which makes him a better Wing than a Center. His playmaking ability also isn't top notch, which, is important for centering a 1st line. He belongs on 2nd line LW until he shows he can play 1st line LW, if he does. He should never be moved back to C.

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10-04-2010, 12:04 PM
  #66
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Brooks thought Stepan was inadequate defensively? I really question whether he paid attention to the games very closely. Stepan more than held his own in the defensive zone. I was actually surprised at how solid he was defensively. Maybe he is not efficient faceoff wise, but what 20 year old center is? There are ways to protect that weakness.

I also dont see why Christensen is not a viable option for first line center. He struggled at times but made some really awesome plays. Why would we put Dubinsky back in the middle when he has been developed as a wing the past year or so? Torts doesn't like him as a center for some reason, I doubt he changes his stance on that.

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10-04-2010, 12:13 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post

I also dont see why Christensen is not a viable option for first line center. He struggled at times but made some really awesome plays. Why would we put Dubinsky back in the middle when he has been developed as a wing the past year or so? Torts doesn't like him as a center for some reason, I doubt he changes his stance on that.
And, I don't see how his camp was "miserable", either.

Dubi is better on the wing.

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10-04-2010, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Then you're drinking the kool-aid in believing that Derek Stepan or Erik Christensen can do a better job centering the top line RIGHT NOW than Dubinsky who is, by far, the best established player of the bunch.
Sorry, but I also believe that Stepan can better handle the responsibility of getting the puck to either Frolov or Gaborik much better than Dubinsky can.

Dubinsky is not a center regardless of how many want him to be one.

He has no sense for the position and when saddled with to much responsibility, his offensive game becomes non-existant.

Let him man the 2nd line LW with Atry and Fedotenko

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10-04-2010, 12:28 PM
  #69
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The biggest thing I see is I still really don't know what kind of player Dubinsky is. Is he a power forward who is going to score the majority of his goals collecting garbage around the net? If so, will he play a physical enough game to be in position and win loose puck battles (let alone learn where to set up to score those kinds of goals a la Messier in his latter years)? Is he going to be a sniper? Does he have a good enough shot to score goals (let alone can he create shots for himself)? He seems to want to be some hybrid of the two with some playmaker thrown in.

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10-04-2010, 12:32 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
Dubinsky is good on the boards, which makes him a better Wing than a Center. His playmaking ability also isn't top notch, which, is important for centering a 1st line. He belongs on 2nd line LW until he shows he can play 1st line LW, if he does. He should never be moved back to C.
I agree with the first bit. But I do think that Dubinsky's stickhandling is good for centering a line, but with Anisimov and Stepan looking to be the centers of the future for this club, i'm perfectly happy with Dubinsky at LW.

We do need to find a 3rd line center for when Drury expires, though. Maybe Werek.

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10-04-2010, 12:33 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I think Dubinsky is a much better fit as a center then LW...

...there is one aber though, you don't want your centers to be inconsistant, and thats what Dubinsky have been in the NHL lately. But in terms of his skill-set, I think he makes much more sense at center ice then on the wing. I think he struggles to get in on time on the forecheck, and he don't have that turbo in his skating were he can take-off with a couple of strides.

He have good come from behind speed though, and is good at taking the puck up ice.
I think he's a center, too, but if the coaching staff believe his talents would be better served at left wing they should play him there.

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10-04-2010, 12:42 PM
  #72
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This is how I see it:

Dubinsky's strengths:

- Protecting the puck with his butt. (Thanks Jags) Because of this, he's good in the cycle, around the net, and along the boards.

- Hitting, energy

- Backchecking and defensive play when his head is on right.

To me, Dubinsky is a poor-man's Marian Hossa. He doesn't have the hands or smooth skating stride, but if consistent, he can give you a similar effect to what Hossa does, albeit certainly not at Hossa's level in any zone.

But with that said, he doesn't have to be a center to be a strong defensive player who can protect the puck and get it to the net at the right time. That should be his focus. Hossa is a great defensive forward and he's a winger. This should be Dubinsky's mold: a fiestier, poor-man's Hossa. We don't need him to become some playmaking center that he isn't. 50-60 points plus hitting and a strong defensive game = hell of a player.

Dubinsky's weaknesses:

- Consistency
- Playmaking (not really a weakness, but he shouldn't try to do too much in this area. He needs to use his strengths (puck control) to take the puck out of the corners and get it to the net any way possible. He does have some nice puck-handling skills (ie: breaking ankles in the Wash series) but I often find myself wishing he was a little less pretty, and more "this puck is getting to the crease no matter what."
- Losing his man (he backchecks very well most of the time, but he's often merely "in the area" and doesn't pick up his man)

Love Dubi. Certainly not untouchable if the right deal comes along, but I do want to see him on the Rangers long-term. I'm hoping he gets his head on straight this year and plays a gritty, everything-to-the-net style. I think that's the way for him to be most successful.

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10-04-2010, 12:43 PM
  #73
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I don't think Dubinsky is a good enough puck distributor to be a center on that line. Frolov is excellent around the net, and along the boards. What we need is a guy who can pull the opposing team away from Gaborik, and still get him the puck when he has space to shoot. To me, EC or Stepan is the better option in that regard.

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10-04-2010, 12:48 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The biggest thing I see is I still really don't know what kind of player Dubinsky is. Is he a power forward who is going to score the majority of his goals collecting garbage around the net? If so, will he play a physical enough game to be in position and win loose puck battles (let alone learn where to set up to score those kinds of goals a la Messier in his latter years)? Is he going to be a sniper? Does he have a good enough shot to score goals (let alone can he create shots for himself)? He seems to want to be some hybrid of the two with some playmaker thrown in.
He's a jack of all trades, master of none. He's a B-/C rate player. None of his skills impress me, however he does have a place ON THE WING on this team.

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10-04-2010, 12:52 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
He's a jack of all trades, master of none. He's a B-/C rate player. None of his skills impress me, however he does have a place ON THE WING on this team.
To me, that's just oversimplifying it. At some point someone on the coaching staff or front office have to pull him aside and focus him.

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